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Would a Druid romance a vampire?

GoatBoySteveGoatBoySteve Member Posts: 43
Doing an all female run through of BG/BG2, thinking of rolling a shapeshifter and romancing Hexxat. Obviously the werewolf/vampire romance sounds fun and very Underworld, but as a Druid wouldn't my PC view Hexxat as an unnatural abomination?

lolienJuliusBorisovGallowglassCrevsDaak
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Comments

  • ShandoShando Member Posts: 144
    edited April 2016
    hmmmm...

    I must disagree> druids aim to balance the world.
    which means - dead should stay dead.
    such as undead hunter wont go romance with vampries :D

    Maybe fallen druid? who commit a crime against his circle, in ORDER to save a vampire crush.

  • FrozenCellsFrozenCells Member Posts: 379
    Sometimes you know it's wrong but it just feels so right...

    CrevsDaak
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,409
    edited April 2016
    It kind of depends on the Druid, really.
    Most Druids would consider them abominations but the Bhaalspawn isn't "most" Druids.

    Any Druid though would want to "cure" Hexxat and make her realize that being a vampire is neither natural nor something she can ignore.
    She wouldn't go: "Oh you're a vampire? Cool! Join us!"

    My Paladin took Sarevok with him and could take Viconia. But he always tried to change him and would change Viconia as well.
    Though he wouldn't take Dorn with him.

    In the end, it's up to you. Even if it conflicts with lore, it makes for an interesting dynamic and relationship.
    Perhaps, because CHARNAME wasn't raised and taught into a traditional Druidic Circle but instead Candlekeep, they would be more open-minded on the matter.

    Unlike Paladins, Druids have traditions not a Code of Conduct that makes them Fallen if they deal with such evil or unnatural creatures.

  • MatthieuMatthieu Member Posts: 80
    Well I will, again, be conservatives.

    Druids are trully priests. They are specialized priests of Sylvanus. Sylvanus is a good aligned god of nature or life.

    Vampire, feed on life and are link to the ethereal plane like all undeads.

    Thus, vampire are against the dogma of Sylvanus and thus druids.

    lolienArtonaCrevsDaak
  • MalicronMalicron Member Posts: 590
    I would think a Druid, at most, might tolerate Hexxat; I can't see one romancing a vampire.

    ArtonaCrevsDaak
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,165
    edited June 2016
    Why couldn't one? A being a druid is a class/job and while one must try and remain true to their class; no one is perfect. Life is filled with chance and anarchy, a drow softening up to a bhaalspawn to the point she loves him. Human and elves can steal god powers from demigods and so on.

    But the genre is called fantasy and it is suppose to be unrealistic you myopic manatee...

    ...

    whoops, sorry, forgot where i was for a second.

    Post edited by DragonKing on
    Vallmyr
  • filcat88filcat88 Member Posts: 115
    Most likely, a Druid would not even allow Hexxat to join the party. Vampires, as all the undead, are abominations of the life-and-death cycle.
    So, I would say romance between a druid and Hexxat is to be excluded.

    GallowglassCrevsDaak
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,520
    edited September 2016
    Matthieu said:

    Druids are truly priests. They are specialized priests of Sylvanus. Sylvanus is a good aligned god of nature or life.

    Um, no. They're not. Druids are distinctly different in D&D. Also, not all druids worship Silvanus (not Sylvanus, that's World of Warcraft). A druid could worship any of the following, lore-wise (depends on race, largely) :
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Eldath
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mielikki
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shiallia
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Rillifane_Rallathil
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sheela_Peryroyl
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Selûne
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Relkath_of_the_Infinite_Branches

    Note that a few of the above teach the concept of "redemption".

    A shadow druid may even worship the following:
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Talos
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Auril

    Archaos
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,409
    Matthieu said:


    Druids are trully priests. They are specialized priests of Sylvanus. Sylvanus is a good aligned god of nature or life.

    A few mistakes here:
    Technically, Druids fall under the Priest umbrella in ADnD 2E. But they're not specialist Clerics.

    "The druid is an example of a priest designed for a specific mythos. His powers and beliefs are different from those of the cleric. The druid is a priest of nature and guardian of the wilderness, be it forest, plains or jungle." - ADnD 2E Player's Handbook

    They also don't follow Silvanus only. They follow a variety of nature deities.
    Also Silvanus isn't good aligned either. He's True Neutral and he's the deity of wild nature and forests.

    You could also be a Cleric of Silvanus and not be a Druid.
    Druids and Clerics serve different purposes and have different philosophies.

  • MatthieuMatthieu Member Posts: 80
    edited October 2016

    Matthieu said:

    Druids are truly priests. They are specialized priests of Sylvanus. Sylvanus is a good aligned god of nature or life.

    Um, no. They're not. Druids are distinctly different in D&D. Also, not all druids worship Silvanus (not Sylvanus, that's World of Warcraft). A druid could worship any of the following, lore-wise (depends on race, largely) :
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Eldath
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mielikki
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shiallia
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Rillifane_Rallathil
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sheela_Peryroyl
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Selûne
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Relkath_of_the_Infinite_Branches

    Note that a few of the above teach the concept of "redemption".

    A shadow druid may even worship the following:
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Talos
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Auril

    Fait & Avatars, page 147. The Priests of Silvanus are druids.

    "All speciality priests of Silvanus are druids."

    There can be of course other gods, especially for other races than humans, but Silvanus is the core god of the druidic class.

    @Archaos
    Since we're talking of the Forgotten Realms, a rulebook dedicated to this universe should take precedences over the corebook. In other contextes, yes you would be absolutely right.

    EDIT: Class section of Faith & Avatars page 184: Druids are specialized priests who fulfill the needs of nature deities... listing deities they can worship next.

    I stand corrected on the deities list, but they are still priests in the Forgotten Realms campaign setting rather than a distinct clerical class. Their power comes from nature gods and these gods would obviously (even the neutral ones) opposed to anything undeed as it is a violation and in contradiction with their core dogma. A druid going that way would, in a rp context, be stripped of his powers at least.

    Post edited by Matthieu on
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    I missed this discussion first time around, so thanks for the thread necromancy.

    It's an interesting question, and some fair points made on both sides of the debate. I lean towards siding with those who are saying "no", because I find it difficult to imagine that someone could be so committed to natural order that she chose to become a Druid, and yet simultaneously so willing to overlook the unnatural abomination of undeath that she could romance a vampire. Instead I'd expect a Druid to be disgusted and repelled by a vampire, and I can't see a credible role-playing reason why our Bhaalspawn would think much differently on this point than other Druids ... otherwise, she surely wouldn't have chosen to be a Druid at all.

    Putting aside differences to work alongside a vampire for some greater cause, yes ... pitying a vampire's condition and hoping that she might somehow earn some sort of redemption, perhaps ... but romantic involvement, no, I can't quite see that.

  • TerrytailsTerrytails Member Posts: 12
    remember some people didn't choose their affliction perhaps this vampire and the druid were two druids and one was inadvertently bitten while fighting and loosing. In the book the chaos curse this guy Kierkan Rufo is a good subject without spoiling the book.

  • Artemius_IArtemius_I Member Posts: 2,023
    Doesn't work so well when the vampire in question is Hexxat. Also Rufo was a pretty awful human being even while alive, so not exactly a good example.

  • TerrytailsTerrytails Member Posts: 12
    i ment the method he, damn it i don't want to spoil the book. :) i was just giving an example of how one becomes a vampire not him in particular. it also shows how one becomes progressively more evil as time goes on perhaps before and in the beginning when hexxat turned she wasn't all that bad.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,547
    I'm pretty firmly with the no because undead are affront against nature crowd.

    However, there are a few things to consider. Iirc from one of the previous discussions of vampire morality, one of the few canon examples of a good vampire in FR is one who was redeemed by a Druid deity.

    There's also the thought that a druid of a very predator- and/or might-makes-right-focused druid deity like Malar might appreciate the vampire's hunting and preying qualities too.

    CrevsDaak
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 753
    I think romance like that is possible, but it would be Romeo and Juliet kind of drama. ;) You know, loving someone you're suppose to hate, and so on. I have no idea, however, why should druid allow vampire to be in party.

    CrevsDaak
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,305
    Druids love fang and claw.

    Vampires have fangs and claws.

    Druids love bats.

    Vampires can turn into bats.

    Druids can heal themselves from injuries involving blood loss.

    Vampires drink blood.

    ...

    I think from this we can ascertain most dating sites would match vampires and druids due to clear oppositional chemistry.

    CrevsDaaklolien
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 1,806
    edited March 30
    Got to go with no on this one. Druids are for and worship the life force OF nature. Vampires and all undead go against this grain and would therefore be a perversity of nature. Raising the dead does not even fit in with druids as they seem prefer reincarnation (still counts as a living being).

    But yeah, I suppose, to me, this would somewhat similar to the dilemma faced by a catholic priest deciding to get married. Sure, they can do it, but they must leave the priesthood. So maybe a druid could decide but maybe have some MAJOR repercussions (similar to what I think was mentioned before, becoming fallen).

    Now as to the Lost Druid kit, I am not sure as these guys animate dead and such and have some severe anguish within them going on. The ol Lost Druid kit however, would not let this druid advance to the Grand druid level for example.

    But given the bloodline of a god thing, maybe just precluding them from having the druid stronghold, as I just have trouble seeing the rest of the druids taking to the druids mate being a vampire. Course this would have to be role-played as the game would not notice.

    It would be interesting to have a mod that allow a druid to mold the stronghold into a version of how their particular kit operates.
    For example a hivemaster might want the old movie 'Kingdom of the Spiders'(with William Shatner) thing going on in an area, hehheh.

    As to deities, I still pretty much go with the old 1st ed druids as worshipping nature , as a power in and of itself, as opposed to some personification of nature.




  • MakeAthkatlaGrtAgainMakeAthkatlaGrtAgain Member Posts: 83
    edited November 27
    People tend to fall for those who are totally wrong for them so it could be possible.

    As for simply the issue of Hexxat being a vampire, well I'm not sure she's a full vampire because she can't level drain. She seems to have an amulet that turns her into a vampire. Also she has a human form and a vampire form that looks like completely different people so it's like that amulet has the spirit of a vampire in it to give her the power of a vampire.

    Her boss is Larloch, a powerfu lich. And it says on http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Larloch
    > He can, at Hexxat's choosing, grant her her wish of becoming human again (at the cost of her own life due to how much she had aged).

    So if you turn her human, she dies.


    Oh and here's some info:
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Blueflame_ghost
    Larloch bound the spirits of multiple liches to items. Liches are quite powerful so he could even more easily have bound the spirit of a vampire to an amulet.

    Post edited by MakeAthkatlaGrtAgain on
  • TawmisTawmis Member Posts: 62

    Doing an all female run through of BG/BG2, thinking of rolling a shapeshifter and romancing Hexxat. Obviously the werewolf/vampire romance sounds fun and very Underworld, but as a Druid wouldn't my PC view Hexxat as an unnatural abomination?

    To me, it all depends on the personality you build for your Druid. For example, Druids love nature, and would probably find a Vampire as an abomination; but what if your Druid saw good in the person, and spent their life, using nature and magic, to find a way to reverse the Vampire effect and restore life to the person? (Granted with the game, it controls a lot - but if you are sincerely RPing your character, you can make an excuse for something to make it fit).

  • MakeAthkatlaGrtAgainMakeAthkatlaGrtAgain Member Posts: 83
    Hexxat only romances females. Homosexuality goes against nature.

    So many modern things today go against nature, such as birth control pills. Not only do they short-circuit how biology designed human pair-bonding to work, women pee them out, it goes into the water, and affects fish.

    Then it causes male fish to grow eggs: https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/02/160203-feminized-fish-endocrine-disruption-hormones-wildlife-refuges/

    There's a similar thing happening to frogs, which is a viral meme: (link, funny videos)

    So if you role play a druid that doesn't mind "them putting chemicals in the water that turn the freaking frogs gay"... as the viral meme goes, then yeah you can romance a vampire just fine.

  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 463
    edited December 3
    @MakeAthkatlaGrtAgain
    Nature doesn't care about your preconceived ideas about what is natural. There is plenty of non-heterosexual behaviour among animals (in fact one of the oldest papers about it was on... beetles).

    And if you think hormones in the water are problematic, then I hope you never use antibiotics. Or any kind of modern medicine, because all of it is plenty "unnatural". Just like your druids shouldn't ever use healing spells, because hey, survival of the fittest! Can't use the magic equivalent of medicine, that's against the natural order of things! Just let everyone die.

    ThacoBellArtona
  • MakeAthkatlaGrtAgainMakeAthkatlaGrtAgain Member Posts: 83
    @chimaera

    I am not speaking whether something is right or wrong. Simply whether or it is natural.

    Nature is full of horrible parasites. Without a lot of unnatural things, people get full of them. Wild animals also are normally full of them. Obviously parasites are very wrong, but they are natural and druids in AD&D are supposed to accept them as part of nature.

    Most of the way humans in First World countries live their lives are not natural.
    Stay up late with bright artificial light.
    Spend nearly all their time sitting down.
    Heat and cool their environment to comfortable levels.
    Irrigate areas that normally should be desert, including pumping water from wells. Where I live the farmers all get water from deep underground in wells, not even diverting streams.
    London in its natural environment would be a swampland, but mankind altered this.

    A druid keeping to what is natural would be opposed to keeping ants and other bugs out of your home. They'd also be opposed to keeping termites from eating your home. People also sometimes get bats, raccoons, mice, etc. infesting their homes and a druid would oppose efforts to get rid of them.


    I notice at least in the game, full-blood elves can't be druids. Elves seem to use magic to alter nature to make it more safe and pleasant. You know so the next random disease doesn't afflict them or a pestilence doesn't destroy their food source.



  • TawmisTawmis Member Posts: 62


    A druid keeping to what is natural would be opposed to keeping ants and other bugs out of your home. They'd also be opposed to keeping termites from eating your home. People also sometimes get bats, raccoons, mice, etc. infesting their homes and a druid would oppose efforts to get rid of them.

    I don't think Druids are that far extremist either. :)


  • MakeAthkatlaGrtAgainMakeAthkatlaGrtAgain Member Posts: 83
    Tawmis said:


    A druid keeping to what is natural would be opposed to keeping ants and other bugs out of your home. They'd also be opposed to keeping termites from eating your home. People also sometimes get bats, raccoons, mice, etc. infesting their homes and a druid would oppose efforts to get rid of them.

    I don't think Druids are that far extremist either. :)

    Hmmm... I've heard different definitions. Some have no problem getting bit by mosquitoes to be at one with nature. Then there's the shadow druids.

    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Druid
    From this description, they want to keep nature from being messed up by:
    * Mankind, you know levels a large area then grows 100% of the same plant everywhere.
    * The undead.
    * Aberrations, means not deformities or twisted creations by mages but HP Lovecraft, which is a real thing there and people might actually take this comic seriously: http://www.thelovecraftsman.com/2011/04/who-will-be-eaten-first-when-elder-gods.html

    That description of druids reminds me of the Harpers.
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Harper
    > The Harpers were a semi-secret organization dedicated to promoting good, preserving history (including art and music of old) and maintaining a balance between civilization and nature by keeping kingdoms small and the destruction of animal and plant life to a minimum.

    This sounds a lot like the whole druid motto in ways.
    1) The forgotten realms has lots of little kingdoms. It's not one giant government spanning a huge area. So if you're an outlaw in one country, you just go somewhere else. This is what makes the world nice. In modern times, if the government's after you, the have treaties about everywhere to track you and various alliances of governments like to police the entire world.
    2) It's a bit like earth 40,000 years ago where there was far more diversity of humanoids. Neanderthals, denisovians, and a bunch not even discovered yet roaming around.

    Both seem sorta druidic about keeping a lot of genetic variation of plant, animal, and humanoid life. This is different than the modern world where there's powerful governments, lots of laws, and a push for sameness.



    So I think technically a druid could romance someone undead, but if there were other druids around, say a community or that druid stronghold, they'd be opposed to it. But they'd be opposed to a druid simply traveling with someone undead. Hmmm come to think of it, I haven't heard Jahiera or Cernd have conflicts with Hexxat but technically they should want her out of the party and even oppose an alliance with Bodhi.









  • MakeAthkatlaGrtAgainMakeAthkatlaGrtAgain Member Posts: 83
    Oh and speaking of how druids oppose aberrations (as in the Lovecraftian far realm)...

    http://www.thelovecraftsman.com/2014/04/behold-terrifying-tree-stump-of-cthulhu.html

    A tree stump took the form of one.



  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,833
    Undeath outright ignores the natural balance (avoiding the natural cycle of death and rebirth), which focus THEIR ENTIRE LIVES AROUND PROTECTING. No druid would romance any undead creature. They would, in fact, dedicate themselves to destroying it.

  • ShandaxxShandaxx Member Posts: 7,220


    I am not speaking whether something is right or wrong. Simply whether or it is natural.

    I think, that is still a matter of opinion like almost everything really.

    If you want to discuss what is "natural" or not you'd have to agree on a definition of "being natural" first. Some animals do in fact display homosexual behavior.

    Does that alone make it natural or not? You will hear a lot of different opinions on that. And they're just that, opinions.

    From my experience as a gay man I can tell you only this: There are certain people, to which you NOT belong, who equal "natural" with good and right and "unnatural" with bad and wrong.
    And then those people have a certain interest in labeling homosexuality as "unnatural".
    Too many, that term "unnatural" has a negative meaning.

    For you, @MakeAthkatlaGrtAgain , calling homosexuality "not natural" may seem harmless. From your point of you it is not natural after all, so why not call it that? What could be the harm in that? The harm in that is, that other people than you can misuse that as a label to associate homosexuality with being wrong/bad.

    And that would be exactly what you did NOT intend to talk about. Nor did you want to imply that.

    ArtonaThacoBell
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