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Is there a way to keep both Minsc and Edwin?

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Comments

  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    Sed said:

    Considering it's a magical world with gods, magic and whatnot.. even if someone was killed, that NPC could easily be brought back by someone else than Charname.

    Live with it :)

    Resurrection costs a LOT money, and only a few clerics are powerful enough to do it.

    If someone had done this to Dynaheir, at least she could have a line about it. Just because it is a fantasy world, doesn't mean it doesn't have rules and a magic system.

  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    Rawgrim said:

    Rawgrim said:

    Didn't say they choices were canon. That would be impossible to do without an import.

    But you can't just make characters immortal and remove choice from an rpg, due to a sequel. Just spawning a dead character over and over is arguably the biggest case of hand-holding in an rpg I have ever seen. It is like the writer is just fixing your mistakes as you make them, because the story didn't take deaths into account at all. It pretty much removes any say the player has in the story. Bad move in an rpg. the player should be firmly planted in the driver's seat in an rpg, and not be a passenger. Especially in a follow up to an rpg known for its freedom.

    Well, most of this is a moot point, since Beamdog probably cannot change things like that.

    Yes they could easily have made SoD less linear. It just had to end a certain way. The journey to the end could have had way more freedom, and a lot less hand-holding and railroading.
    So did you ever actually buy SoD or just go play for 5 more hours on your friends machine? You certainly seem to speak authoritatively on SoD about the endgame.

  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    mf2112 said:

    Rawgrim said:

    Rawgrim said:

    Didn't say they choices were canon. That would be impossible to do without an import.

    But you can't just make characters immortal and remove choice from an rpg, due to a sequel. Just spawning a dead character over and over is arguably the biggest case of hand-holding in an rpg I have ever seen. It is like the writer is just fixing your mistakes as you make them, because the story didn't take deaths into account at all. It pretty much removes any say the player has in the story. Bad move in an rpg. the player should be firmly planted in the driver's seat in an rpg, and not be a passenger. Especially in a follow up to an rpg known for its freedom.

    Well, most of this is a moot point, since Beamdog probably cannot change things like that.

    Yes they could easily have made SoD less linear. It just had to end a certain way. The journey to the end could have had way more freedom, and a lot less hand-holding and railroading.
    So did you ever actually buy SoD or just go play for 5 more hours on your friends machine? You certainly seem to speak authoritatively on SoD about the endgame.
    So what you are saying is that you can't argue my point, and decided to try and derail the thread by making it about me instead.

    Very mature.

  • ChadChad Member Posts: 90
    I like what a poster said about the canon party showing up at the end sequence... It might have made more sense to have created something that separated the canon party (if the canon party was used in BGI) such as a need for the group to be in multiple places requiring them to separate. CHARNAME goes through the story with completely new NPC's, while Jahiera, Khalid, Minsc, Dynaheir, Edwin, Viconia (whoever is with him) are sent by Belt to handle something else. IMO Imoen would still stay with CHARNAME cuz 'sister', but even that I can see some folks being upset with...not EVERYONE keeps her in the party on every play through.

    I haven't played SoD, so not going to argue the various 'railroad' or not points, but this idea certainly would have taken it out of the discussion. In any case, the game is made and I have to ask is it really a big deal to just 'ignore' a character if you killed them and they reappear? It definitely is not the first inconsistency to show up in the series, after all...

  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    Rawgrim said:

    mf2112 said:

    Rawgrim said:

    Rawgrim said:

    Didn't say they choices were canon. That would be impossible to do without an import.

    But you can't just make characters immortal and remove choice from an rpg, due to a sequel. Just spawning a dead character over and over is arguably the biggest case of hand-holding in an rpg I have ever seen. It is like the writer is just fixing your mistakes as you make them, because the story didn't take deaths into account at all. It pretty much removes any say the player has in the story. Bad move in an rpg. the player should be firmly planted in the driver's seat in an rpg, and not be a passenger. Especially in a follow up to an rpg known for its freedom.

    Well, most of this is a moot point, since Beamdog probably cannot change things like that.

    Yes they could easily have made SoD less linear. It just had to end a certain way. The journey to the end could have had way more freedom, and a lot less hand-holding and railroading.
    So did you ever actually buy SoD or just go play for 5 more hours on your friends machine? You certainly seem to speak authoritatively on SoD about the endgame.
    So what you are saying is that you can't argue my point, and decided to try and derail the thread by making it about me instead.

    Very mature.
    No, I was just curious since you do seem to be hanging around the SoD forum and posting a lot there, and I figured maybe you did go and buy it. However I am guessing now that you did not due to your immediate defensiveness about it.

  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    mf2112 said:

    Rawgrim said:

    mf2112 said:

    Rawgrim said:

    Rawgrim said:

    Didn't say they choices were canon. That would be impossible to do without an import.

    But you can't just make characters immortal and remove choice from an rpg, due to a sequel. Just spawning a dead character over and over is arguably the biggest case of hand-holding in an rpg I have ever seen. It is like the writer is just fixing your mistakes as you make them, because the story didn't take deaths into account at all. It pretty much removes any say the player has in the story. Bad move in an rpg. the player should be firmly planted in the driver's seat in an rpg, and not be a passenger. Especially in a follow up to an rpg known for its freedom.

    Well, most of this is a moot point, since Beamdog probably cannot change things like that.

    Yes they could easily have made SoD less linear. It just had to end a certain way. The journey to the end could have had way more freedom, and a lot less hand-holding and railroading.
    So did you ever actually buy SoD or just go play for 5 more hours on your friends machine? You certainly seem to speak authoritatively on SoD about the endgame.
    So what you are saying is that you can't argue my point, and decided to try and derail the thread by making it about me instead.

    Very mature.
    No, I was just curious since you do seem to be hanging around the SoD forum and posting a lot there, and I figured maybe you did go and buy it. However I am guessing now that you did not due to your immediate defensiveness about it.
    Waiting for a patch to fix the new sprites. Hoping for a toggle to set them back to the pre-2.0 patch. They are blurry now and my colourblindness it making it worse. Dee said it might happen, so I am hanging around for news about it. I hope that explains it.

    I was not being defensive, I was just trying to keep the thread from being derailed by you.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,450
    The question in the OP is about possible ways of getting both Minsc and Edwin in a SoD party. That's all.

    It's not about whether someone should be able to do it or not, it's not the question about the nature of resurrections etc etc. Also, it's not a question about whether someone played SoD or not and what their impressions are.

    Let's keep it on topic - is it possible to get both Minsc and Edwin in a SoD party and how.

  • ShynShyn Member Posts: 70
    Funny how this got derailed really fast into a game-consistency discussion...

    I still want to know how to use Minsc and Edwin together in SoD, so if anyone has found a way or a mod, please let me know.

    Rawgrim
  • VasculioVasculio Member Posts: 445
    I have a theory that might work. I would have Minsc and Dynaheir stay at the camp. Recruit Edwin, take him out to a area to fight monster. Have him die. Take his loot. And return to camp to recruit Minsc and Dynaheir. If they join awsome! Then go to the healer to revive Edwin.

    JuliusBorisov
  • AionZAionZ Member Posts: 3,087
    edited April 2016
    Using the console to change Global("bd_edwin_join","global",) to a value of anything except 1 or 2 could work... maybe. But chances are it will break something else somewhere down the line.

    Shyn
  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    Rawgrim said:



    Characters showing up after you kill them is something they need to fix. Otherwise it is just way more railroading. "You shouldn't have killed this character so we fixed your mistake".

    + actions having consequences is always nice.

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/55211/baeloth-mkhiin-not-at-coastway-crossing#latest

  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,729

    Using the console to change Global("bd_edwin_join","global",) to a value of anything except 1 or 2 could work... maybe. But chances are it will break something else somewhere down the line.

    It's safe to change.

    Shyn
  • ShynShyn Member Posts: 70
    edited April 2016

    Using the console to change Global("bd_edwin_join","global",) to a value of anything except 1 or 2 could work... maybe. But chances are it will break something else somewhere down the line.

    You Sir, are a scholar and a saint!

    I can now play the way, and the party I want to play with. :smiley:

  • VasculioVasculio Member Posts: 445
    Follow up. You can recruit them, but the minute your revive Edwin. Edwin start complaining and you forced to decide who to keep in the party.

    mf2112
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,174
    edwin was tasked to kill dyna so there is no way he will be in a party with her in it. same goes fro neera as she has red wizards after her.

  • ShynShyn Member Posts: 70
    edited May 2016

    edwin was tasked to kill dyna so there is no way he will be in a party with her in it. same goes fro neera as she has red wizards after her.

    Not what I and OP asked.

    Besides, I ditched Dynaheir without killing her, and Minsc happily stays in the party. (No tricks, no console needed). So Dynaheir is irrelevant and so is Neera for that matter.

    I dont get why people are so dead-set on commenting on who can and cannot stay in the same group when this has been common knowledge in BG Vanilla and even BG:EE for years. The only reason this thread is even started is because the old tricks didnt work in SoD, so we asked for a new one that does, in the forum category for SoD.

    Using SetGlobal("bd_edwin_join","global",) will make Edwin stay in the group together with Minsc.

    Further discussing character continuity is irrelevant for the thread.

    I dont mean to be rude, but I am just sad it took the better part of a month before someone finally used his reading skills and realised what the question was.

    I am still thankfull for that, cheers Artemius_I !! :smiley:

    Lammas
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    Should combine them into a true neutral character called Minwin.

  • BlashBlash Member Posts: 228
    edited April 25
    Shyn wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Not what I and OP asked.

    Besides, I ditched Dynaheir without killing her, and Minsc happily stays in the party. (No tricks, no console needed). So Dynaheir is irrelevant and so is Neera for that matter.

    I dont get why people are so dead-set on commenting on who can and cannot stay in the same group when this has been common knowledge in BG Vanilla and even BG:EE for years. The only reason this thread is even started is because the old tricks didnt work in SoD, so we asked for a new one that does, in the forum category for SoD.

    Using SetGlobal("bd_edwin_join","global",) will make Edwin stay in the group together with Minsc.

    Further discussing character continuity is irrelevant for the thread.

    I dont mean to be rude, but I am just sad it took the better part of a month before someone finally used his reading skills and realised what the question was.

    I am still thankfull for that, cheers Artemius_I !! :smiley:

    First of all, thanks for solving this issue for me.
    Secondly, I wanted to report my experience. The only way to keep them together is this:
    - Have Minsc in the party;
    - Meet Edwin in the camp;
    - Talk to him, ask him to join, and when you are presented with the choice to keep either him or Minsc, keep Minsc and send Edwin away;
    - Modify the global variable;
    - Go back to Edwin and take him back.

    If you modify that variable BEFORE meeting Edwin for the first time, it will not work.

    Post edited by Blash on
    JuliusBorisov
  • LaufeyLaufey Member Posts: 2
    Apologies for what is perhaps a stupid question, but what number are you setting the global variable to in order to make this work? I've tried a few options and still haven't managed it. Otherwise I think I've followed the instructions above exactly, I had Minsc, met Edwin and told him to go to the camp rather than join the party, then used the console so I must be doing something wrong.

  • LaufeyLaufey Member Posts: 2
    After repeated trial and error, it did eventually work for me, when I used the Ctrl-Q to move Edwin into the party without his joining conversation, and then immediately used the console command. Thanks for this, finally I can play with my preferred party all the way through!

    JuliusBorisov
  • BlashBlash Member Posts: 228
    edited April 25
    Glad you succeeded :)

    Anyway, the variable has to be set to any value that is not 0, 1 or 2. For example, 3 is ok.

    I think I didn't explain myself very well. You had to ask Edwin to join, and then send him away when you're forced to choose between him or Minsc. I'll edit my previous post.

    JuliusBorisov
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