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Whoever wrote this (Philip Daigle) seems to be the problem

br4zilbr4zil Member Posts: 24
edited April 2016 in Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear
MAJOR EDIT: (due to Dee clarifying that apparently Amber Scott didint had a major role in this, i am changing my OP and Thread title)

This is also a respectful Critique of whoever participated in writing SoD, while i wont sugercoat the aspects i find their skills lacking, this is not an insult or an attack on the team personally, but somebody has to have responsability and they should be called out on it.

Also, ANY profession isnt above criticism, if an engineer designs your forklift to support... say 3 tons and the thing breaks while trying to lift 2 tons, the engineer is directly at fault. Same with writers.

With that said, the problem is that they are just very bad RPG writers.

I have been writing RPG adventures for almost 10 years now, not professionally, but as a hobbist. There are alot of "little things" one picks up while doing that, things that i belive to be only learned through experience. Things that i think Philip Daigle and whoever else helped him out doesnt have (the writing clearly seems to of a novice level).

Anyway, on with it (if you have patience for a long wall of text, that is) :D

Every point he wants to bring, even the ones classified as "SJWish" could have been bought up within the universe, not ham-fisted like it was. But let me explain first:

He forgets basic DMing/Adventure making principles such as allowing a multi-branched adventure, diferent outcomes and diferent aligment possibilities for players.

He doesnt even follow the "golden rule" of allowing at least 5 types of Aligments to work within the story. I know its a bit harder to do in videogame RPG, but the vast majority of Virtual RPGs follow that rule somewhat.

He says "Jaheira was Khalid's nagging wife", when even the original writers have said they made Jaheira to be basically the "head,muscle and brains" of the couple, due to Khalid being the weakling he is.

I question if he (or ANYONE who got involved) even really played the game herself, it feels like someone just handed a resume of the game and they went from there.

And thats not all, he seems to be completely unfamiliar with the setting, either applying real world logic to situations (screenshots at the bottom). Its as if they didint cared about the setting or its influence on what they are trying to write.

I will give an example (ITS ONE EXAMPLE, it does not represent the extention of what trans characters should be)

Lets take Mizhena, since i take most people here know about her even if they didint played the DLC.

If i wanted to make a transexual character, using an elf would be the logical choice, one would even write a in-game dialogue about a transexual elf who gets harrassed by humans and the PC could step in. Maybe said elf would be with his/her own group of friends who find his/her sexuality completely normal, while humans dont.

Elves are much more accepting of diferent kinds of sexuality and one could go to town while making arguments pro and against this atitude with the Elfs vs Humans event.

Ultimately, you would leave up to the player to decide.

One doesnt show "diversity" or actually helps the entire issue by just "handling diversity cards" to generic NPCs

Also keep in mind that this is just ONE example of how one can drive the point about transexualism within the the game's universe without doing a 1:1 real life representation.

As an RPG enthusiast, i know at the very least 5 other people who would easily have written something better, 2 of those are women and another is a gay man whose actually a colleague of mine in college.

So, i am sorry Mr Daigle (and team), from one writer to another...

You suck. :P

Here are some examples found the by community, this is the kind of bad writing that shows the sign of amateurism.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/457488019946441491/4C603D49FD93E2650FB29161E5FC89432296F7B1/

Kudos to Nidair for the screenshot.

Another example:

http://imgur.com/YaCQ8n7

This time, by Orobis.
Post edited by br4zil on
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Comments

  • br4zilbr4zil Member Posts: 24
    edited April 2016
    As some might know, this is indeed a copy paste of the thread i made on the Steam forums. But i wanted to know what you guys here at the forums think.
  • IllustairIllustair Member Posts: 877
    This is a legit question, and I'm not being antagonistic here, but have you played the game?
  • br4zilbr4zil Member Posts: 24
    I would also like to add, as a brief recap on what we discussed on Steam that the problem isnt what SoD tried show us.

    I am all for putting social/political/philosofical allegories in our games, its what usually makes a great classic (Deus Ex anyone?)

    But what i question is that the DLC was received badly because how those points were presented, not because of what they were in the first place.
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited April 2016
    I don't see anything in the first writing example provided that's outside the bounds of quality set by BGI. Unless someone is seeing a "SJW" agenda in that innocent little exchange and that's what this is really about.

    The second is a little unbalanced in terms of responses, but...should the hero of Baldur's Gate approve of being called a wench?
  • br4zilbr4zil Member Posts: 24
    edited April 2016
    Illustair said:

    This is a legit question, and I'm not being antagonistic here, but have you played the game?

    Yes i have friend, i have over 600h on BG1 & 2. I did take part in the making of the NPC Project for BG1 way back when and i am also responsible for the old failed "Dynaheir in BG2" mod over at www.baldursgatemods.com
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    You make some good points, OP. But your Mizhena bit is just...You missed bigtime on that one.
  • br4zilbr4zil Member Posts: 24
    AndrewFoley said:

    br4zil said:

    she is the lead writer, i assume she is the responsible person for the DLC's story

    Amber was not SoD's lead writer; the crit path story was locked in before she came to the company.

    So who is responsible for most of the story writing then?

    This is a legit question, because i honestly belive they didint have nowhere near the level of experience to write an RPG adventure. It seems they lacked simple basic knowledge on a multi branched storyline (along with giving diferent aligned characters their respective options).
  • IllustairIllustair Member Posts: 877
    No, I meant SoD of course ;)
  • marcerormarceror Member Posts: 577
    Amber isn't "the problem", okay. Amber is an employee of Beamdog, and they have stated that the are one team, and that they support her writing. Wizards of the Coast has similarly declared their support for what Beamdog has done with SoD. So, her work represents what these companies want SoD to be.

    So, you either like what Beamdog and WotC has produced or you don't. And whatever you feel here, this is a matter of your own, subjective preferences.
  • br4zilbr4zil Member Posts: 24
    Rawgrim said:

    You make some good points, OP. But your Mizhena bit is just...You missed bigtime on that one.

    Maybe my idea isnt the best ever made, but certanly doing anything other than just putting a trans character "there" is a better choice.

    Its just doing a disservice to the whole idea. If you wanna drive your point about "hey, transexuals can be characters too!" dont you just generically make a merchant into one. It just comes out as lazy.
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207
    br4zil said:

    As some might know, this is indeed a copy paste of the thread i made on the Steam forums. But i wanted to know what you guys here at the forums think.

    I think a forklift that can only lift 3 tons sounds rather useless, and I don't think they design those anymore.
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    br4zil said:

    AndrewFoley said:

    br4zil said:

    she is the lead writer, i assume she is the responsible person for the DLC's story

    Amber was not SoD's lead writer; the crit path story was locked in before she came to the company.

    So who is responsible for most of the story writing then?

    This is a legit question, because i honestly belive they didint have nowhere near the level of experience to write an RPG adventure. It seems they lacked simple basic knowledge on a multi branched storyline (along with giving diferent aligned characters their respective options).
    Honestly, I think your writing skills exhibited in this thread leave you little room to criticize. "didn't have nowhere near" indeed....
  • RodyRody Member Posts: 22
    edited April 2016
    I just want to say a few things:

    First of all, as TrentOster posted - the game is a group effort. So let's say "Beamdog" and not point at anyone in particular.

    Amber has a boss (at least TrentOster) and she has a team of writers that work with her. So the game writing is not 100% on her shoulders.

    Now, on the topic of the writing. My take on the EE versions.

    I abhor Neera and the Dorn. I like Rasaad (and his story). I don't care much for Hexxat, but she was mildly interesting. I give the writing introduced by Beamdog a general solid 6 or 7 most of the time (with Dorn being an extreme low of 3 and Rasaad's a solid 8).

    My only issue is when in the interview (and subsequent comments), Beamdog said they will change X or Y and put W and Z in the game because that is what they think is right and the correct way a character should be - regardless if ends being considered "fake or forced".

    That is very bad.

    I hope that Beamdog takes advantage of working as a group and focus on delivering multi-dimensional and open story.

    As I said in other topics:

    Make the game open-end and open in interaction and with many options and diversity. Present it in the most realistic manner you can and then give players the option to approach it and interact with it with a lot of variety.

    All I want from Baldur's Gate is a game that has variety, that has a bit of every spice.

    Put sexism, conservationism, progressiveness, and all other "ism" and "ness" that are out there - and even more, please add them with a touch of gray to show virtues and flaws in all sides of all these "ism" and "nesses". Also give us the chance to approach that diversity using the all the "ism" and "ness" so we can role play!

    In all seriousness, in my view I would totally support having the option to be the most extreme liberal and all in-betweens up to the most extreme conservative, with equal variety in the companions.

    Obviously that is a dream and would require monumental efforts, but I can settle with a solid amount of diversity (think like BG 2 with a bit more).
  • br4zilbr4zil Member Posts: 24
    marceror said:

    Amber isn't "the problem", okay. Amber is an employee of Beamdog, and they have stated that the are one team, and that they support her writing. Wizards of the Coast has similarly declared their support for what Beamdog has done with SoD. So, her work represents what these companies want SoD to be.

    So, you either like what Beamdog and WotC has produced or you don't. And whatever you feel here, this is a matter of your own, subjective preferences.

    If Andrew gets back at my question, maybe i should apologize to Amber then.

    But the point stands, if beamdog truly thinks and support this (beyond just doing it out of a PR move), then they support amateurish writing.

    This isnt a question of subjectiveness, have you actually played SoD? there are numerous times where your PC is given either no choice in opinion or the EXACT same choice thrice or even absurdly 5 exact same responces.

    It seems the writers lack basic knowledge on adventuring making, as virtual DMs they should know their story will be played by many diferent players and characters, with diferent atitudes and opionions.

    They just railroaded us into what they think is a good decision.
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    br4zil said:

    Rawgrim said:

    You make some good points, OP. But your Mizhena bit is just...You missed bigtime on that one.

    Maybe my idea isnt the best ever made, but certanly doing anything other than just putting a trans character "there" is a better choice.

    Its just doing a disservice to the whole idea. If you wanna drive your point about "hey, transexuals can be characters too!" dont you just generically make a merchant into one. It just comes out as lazy.
    What your idea did was basically turning the transgendered character into a victim from the get-go. How about helping a character save some farmers from a pack of orcs. And you find out later that the character is transgendered?
  • br4zilbr4zil Member Posts: 24
    Rawgrim said:

    br4zil said:

    Rawgrim said:

    You make some good points, OP. But your Mizhena bit is just...You missed bigtime on that one.

    Maybe my idea isnt the best ever made, but certanly doing anything other than just putting a trans character "there" is a better choice.

    Its just doing a disservice to the whole idea. If you wanna drive your point about "hey, transexuals can be characters too!" dont you just generically make a merchant into one. It just comes out as lazy.
    What your idea did was basically turning the transgendered character into a victim from the get-go. How about helping a character save some farmers from a pack of orcs. And you find out later that the character is transgendered?
    Another good idea, i just thought that having an actual conflict (elves support transex character vs humans not) would be a good concept.

    Anything other than generically asking a random NPC about their backstory and getting infodumped about their sexuality is good to me.
  • br4zilbr4zil Member Posts: 24
    Rody said:

    I just want to say a few things:

    First of all, as TrentOster posted - the game is a group effort. So let's say "Beamdog" and not point at anyone in particular.

    Amber has a boss (at least TrentOster) and she has a team of writers that work with her. So the game writing is not 100% on her shoulders.

    Now, on the topic of the writing. My take on the EE versions.

    I abhor Neera and the Dorn. I like Rasaad (and his story). I don't care much for Hexxat, but she was mildly interesting. I give the writing introduced by Beamdog a general solid 6 or 7 most of the time (with Dorn being an extreme low of 3 and Rasaad's a solid 8).

    My only issue is when in the interview (and subsequent comments), Beamdog said they will change X or Y and put W and Z in the game because that is what they think is right and the correct way a character should be - regardless if ends being considered "fake or forced".

    That is very bad.

    I hope that Beamdog takes advantage of working as a group and focus on delivering multi-dimensional and open story.

    As I said in other topics:

    Make the game open-end and open in interaction and with many options and diversity. Present it in the most realistic manner you can and then give players the option to approach it and interact with it with a lot of variety.

    All I want from Baldur's Gate is a game that has variety, that has a bit of every spice.

    Put sexism, conservationism, progressiveness, and all other "ism" and "ness" that are out there - and even more, please add them with a touch of gray to show virtues and flaws in all sides of all these "ism" and "nesses". Also give us the chance to approach that diversity using the all the "ism" and "ness" so we can role play!

    In all seriousness, in my view I would totally support having the option to be the most extreme liberal and all in-betweens up to the most extreme conservative, with equal variety in the companions.

    Obviously that is a dream and would require monumental efforts, but I can settle with a solid amount of diversity (think like BG 2 with a bit more).

    That, that is what i would also love. :smile:
    mf2112 said:

    br4zil said:

    AndrewFoley said:

    br4zil said:

    she is the lead writer, i assume she is the responsible person for the DLC's story

    Amber was not SoD's lead writer; the crit path story was locked in before she came to the company.

    So who is responsible for most of the story writing then?

    This is a legit question, because i honestly belive they didint have nowhere near the level of experience to write an RPG adventure. It seems they lacked simple basic knowledge on a multi branched storyline (along with giving diferent aligned characters their respective options).
    Honestly, I think your writing skills exhibited in this thread leave you little room to criticize. "didn't have nowhere near" indeed....
    I dont write my stuff in english, nor do i publish it for money. Guess whats my primary language? (hint, look at my name!)
    My contribution to the NPC Project went to people who did edits and corrections, i am not 100% infallible in english gramatic.
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    br4zil said:

    Rawgrim said:

    br4zil said:

    Rawgrim said:

    You make some good points, OP. But your Mizhena bit is just...You missed bigtime on that one.

    Maybe my idea isnt the best ever made, but certanly doing anything other than just putting a trans character "there" is a better choice.

    Its just doing a disservice to the whole idea. If you wanna drive your point about "hey, transexuals can be characters too!" dont you just generically make a merchant into one. It just comes out as lazy.
    What your idea did was basically turning the transgendered character into a victim from the get-go. How about helping a character save some farmers from a pack of orcs. And you find out later that the character is transgendered?
    Another good idea, i just thought that having an actual conflict (elves support transex character vs humans not) would be a good concept.

    Anything other than generically asking a random NPC about their backstory and getting infodumped about their sexuality is good to me.
    The thing is. The FR setting has always had transgendered characters. You even have spells that changes your gender and all that. So there really isn't any conflict about it to begin with. The story would be way better served if she just had regular quests that aren't about her gender at all.
  • Baeloth_JnrBaeloth_Jnr Member Posts: 86
    edited April 2016
    Looking at the three lines from Safana in the conversation with Corwin:

    "How did someone like you rise so high in the Flaming Fist?"
    "There aren’t many mothers who’d rather fight zealots thousands of miles from home when they could be making their children dinner and putting them to bed.”
    “Nonsense. I do what I will, where I will, when I will,m with whom I will.”

    The first two are completely out of character and seem to be of the 'i love the smell of social justice in the morning' type writing.
    The third line (apart from "Nonsense") is more in keeping with Safana from BG.
    But here inserted it seems completely incongruous as part of the conversation.
    EDIT: And Safana has 17 charisma. She comes across as a ham fisted bigot with no finesse.
    Charisma means charm. She /should/ be likeable, even if people find her personal choices (as a character) objectionable.
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    Purudaya said:

    I'm still waiting to hear whether @br4zil has actually played SoD.

    As far as branching character options, where else in BG can you bypass an entire quest by using your character's knowledge of magic? Where else in BG can you call on party members to help you solve the quests themselves? There's a thread just posted today that shows 6 or so ways to approach the Bridge assault/surrender quest.

    Meanwhile, I can think of very few if any "branching" character options in BG1. You got to explore quite a bit, but the main plot was pretty cut and dry regardless of the choices you made. I think this is a classic example of making a decision before evaluating content.

    This is quite true. BG1 was way more lacking than BG2 in that regard, for sure. I would argue that this expansion is more BG2 than 1 when it comes to the amount of dialogue within the party etc though. So wanting more Branching options isn't a bad request.

    Not sure if he has played the game, though.
  • br4zilbr4zil Member Posts: 24
    edited April 2016
    Rawgrim said:

    br4zil said:

    Rawgrim said:

    br4zil said:

    Rawgrim said:

    You make some good points, OP. But your Mizhena bit is just...You missed bigtime on that one.

    Maybe my idea isnt the best ever made, but certanly doing anything other than just putting a trans character "there" is a better choice.

    Its just doing a disservice to the whole idea. If you wanna drive your point about "hey, transexuals can be characters too!" dont you just generically make a merchant into one. It just comes out as lazy.
    What your idea did was basically turning the transgendered character into a victim from the get-go. How about helping a character save some farmers from a pack of orcs. And you find out later that the character is transgendered?
    Another good idea, i just thought that having an actual conflict (elves support transex character vs humans not) would be a good concept.

    Anything other than generically asking a random NPC about their backstory and getting infodumped about their sexuality is good to me.
    The thing is. The FR setting has always had transgendered characters. You even have spells that changes your gender and all that. So there really isn't any conflict about it to begin with. The story would be way better served if she just had regular quests that aren't about her gender at all.
    Yep, also works, we dont know how prejudiced your average bob or jane is in the Sword Coast is against transex people (probably just as much as they would be scared of mages?)

    At any rate have you played the Edwina Romance mod (part of the Edwin romance mod)? I thought the author did a pretty well job at turning the "joke" of Edwina into a rather serious romance.

    Sure... Edwina is still a lawful evil #%$@ but... you know... if your also evil i suppose it works :P
    Purudaya said:

    I'm still waiting to hear whether @br4zil has actually played SoD.

    As far as branching character options, where else in BG can you bypass an entire quest by using your character's knowledge of magic? Where else in BG can you call on party members to help you solve the quests themselves? There's a thread just posted today that shows 6 or so ways to approach the Bridge assault/surrender quest.

    Meanwhile, I can think of very few if any "branching" character options in BG1. You got to explore quite a bit, but the main plot was pretty cut and dry regardless of the choices you made. I think this is a classic example of making a decision before evaluating content.

    No, did not finished it, i got fed up with it about 5 hours in, being rather angry i paid for a DLC of rather crappy "mod" quality. I then went and spoiled myself about the horrible ending and the whole Transex fiasco.

    After that i got a refund for the DLC.

    I honestly would give out money for the Secret of Bone Hill mod to be fleshed out than actually give incentive to SoD.

    Well, i also remember that one can bypass alot of the main quest if one so desires. And i am not talking about just about the original game, we had over a decade of modding that improved the game and showed how to truly design engaging quests and dialogue.

    SoD should have completely built upon that legacy, not simply ignore it.
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    br4zil said:

    Rawgrim said:

    br4zil said:

    Rawgrim said:

    br4zil said:

    Rawgrim said:

    You make some good points, OP. But your Mizhena bit is just...You missed bigtime on that one.

    Maybe my idea isnt the best ever made, but certanly doing anything other than just putting a trans character "there" is a better choice.

    Its just doing a disservice to the whole idea. If you wanna drive your point about "hey, transexuals can be characters too!" dont you just generically make a merchant into one. It just comes out as lazy.
    What your idea did was basically turning the transgendered character into a victim from the get-go. How about helping a character save some farmers from a pack of orcs. And you find out later that the character is transgendered?
    Another good idea, i just thought that having an actual conflict (elves support transex character vs humans not) would be a good concept.

    Anything other than generically asking a random NPC about their backstory and getting infodumped about their sexuality is good to me.
    The thing is. The FR setting has always had transgendered characters. You even have spells that changes your gender and all that. So there really isn't any conflict about it to begin with. The story would be way better served if she just had regular quests that aren't about her gender at all.
    Yep, also works, we dont know how prejudiced your average bob or jane is in the Sword Coast is against transex people (probably just as much as they would be scared of mages?)

    At any rate have you played the Edwina Romance mod (part of the Edwin romance mod)? I thought the author did a pretty well job at turning the "joke" of Edwina into a rather serious romance.

    Sure... Edwina is still a lawful evil #%$@ but... you know... if your also evil i suppose it works :P
    Purudaya said:

    I'm still waiting to hear whether @br4zil has actually played SoD.

    As far as branching character options, where else in BG can you bypass an entire quest by using your character's knowledge of magic? Where else in BG can you call on party members to help you solve the quests themselves? There's a thread just posted today that shows 6 or so ways to approach the Bridge assault/surrender quest.

    Meanwhile, I can think of very few if any "branching" character options in BG1. You got to explore quite a bit, but the main plot was pretty cut and dry regardless of the choices you made. I think this is a classic example of making a decision before evaluating content.

    No, did not finished it, i got fed up with it about 5 hours in, being rather angry i paid for a DLC of rather crappy "mod" quality. I then went and spoiled myself about the horrible ending and the whole Transex fiasco.

    After that i got a refund for the DLC.

    I honestly would give out money for the Secret of Bone Hill mod to be fleshed out than actually give incentive to SoD.

    Well, i also remember that one can bypass alot of the main quest if one so desires. And i am not talking about just about the original game, we had over a decade of modding that improved the game and showed how to truly design engaging quests and dialogue.
    Actually we do know how people in the FR world react to transgendered characters. Transgendered characters have been accepted since the day the Forgotten Realms became an official gameworld. No novel, module or pc game ever indicate a single hint about Transgendered people being shunned. Going by that the people of the Sword Coast would most likely have the same opinion. It is a non-issue.
  • br4zilbr4zil Member Posts: 24
    edited April 2016
    Rawgrim said:



    Actually we do know how people in the FR world react to transgendered characters. Transgendered characters have been accepted since the day the Forgotten Realms became an official gameworld. No novel, module or pc game ever indicate a single hint about Transgendered people being shunned. Going by that the people of the Sword Coast would most likely have the same opinion. It is a non-issue.

    Which is also perfectly fine, but then people shouldnt really care about gender... at all (like pretty much every other game has been about) and the statement by Mizhena makes even less sense in that context.

    Some of the dialogue with Edwina in BG2 makes one think there exists at least a minimal level of prejudice, i mean I dont think a world where EVERYTHING IS FINE (in regards to sexuality) makes a good ground for the indroduction of a rather "preachy" transex character. But thats my personal take on it.

    Even in a world where there exists absolutly zero prejudice, making a transex character that badly designed is just awful.

    "Hi, i am a merchant, wanna buy stuff or hear about me being a transexual" is kinda cringeworthy.

    Your idea of encoutering a traveler who ends up being transex is also valid and would be completely fine.

    Or maybe even a party member, that reveals to be transex only after meaningful banter, would both be better ways of pulling this off.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    br4zil said:

    cringeworthy.

  • br4zilbr4zil Member Posts: 24
    edited April 2016
    Purudaya said:

    br4zil said:

    Rawgrim said:

    br4zil said:

    Rawgrim said:

    br4zil said:

    Rawgrim said:

    You make some good points, OP. But your Mizhena bit is just...You missed bigtime on that one.

    Maybe my idea isnt the best ever made, but certanly doing anything other than just putting a trans character "there" is a better choice.

    Its just doing a disservice to the whole idea. If you wanna drive your point about "hey, transexuals can be characters too!" dont you just generically make a merchant into one. It just comes out as lazy.
    What your idea did was basically turning the transgendered character into a victim from the get-go. How about helping a character save some farmers from a pack of orcs. And you find out later that the character is transgendered?
    Another good idea, i just thought that having an actual conflict (elves support transex character vs humans not) would be a good concept.

    Anything other than generically asking a random NPC about their backstory and getting infodumped about their sexuality is good to me.
    The thing is. The FR setting has always had transgendered characters. You even have spells that changes your gender and all that. So there really isn't any conflict about it to begin with. The story would be way better served if she just had regular quests that aren't about her gender at all.
    Yep, also works, we dont know how prejudiced your average bob or jane is in the Sword Coast is against transex people (probably just as much as they would be scared of mages?)

    At any rate have you played the Edwina Romance mod (part of the Edwin romance mod)? I thought the author did a pretty well job at turning the "joke" of Edwina into a rather serious romance.

    Sure... Edwina is still a lawful evil #%$@ but... you know... if your also evil i suppose it works :P
    Purudaya said:

    I'm still waiting to hear whether @br4zil has actually played SoD.

    As far as branching character options, where else in BG can you bypass an entire quest by using your character's knowledge of magic? Where else in BG can you call on party members to help you solve the quests themselves? There's a thread just posted today that shows 6 or so ways to approach the Bridge assault/surrender quest.

    Meanwhile, I can think of very few if any "branching" character options in BG1. You got to explore quite a bit, but the main plot was pretty cut and dry regardless of the choices you made. I think this is a classic example of making a decision before evaluating content.

    No, did not finished it, i got fed up with it about 5 hours in, being rather angry i paid for a DLC of rather crappy "mod" quality. I then went and spoiled myself about the horrible ending and the whole Transex fiasco.

    After that i got a refund for the DLC.

    I honestly would give out money for the Secret of Bone Hill mod to be fleshed out than actually give incentive to SoD.

    Well, i also remember that one can bypass alot of the main quest if one so desires. And i am not talking about just about the original game, we had over a decade of modding that improved the game and showed how to truly design engaging quests and dialogue.

    SoD should have completely built upon that legacy, not simply ignore it.
    I have never seen a BG mod that even comes *close* to SoD in terms of quality. Not even within the same universe. But ah well, we're just down to subjective opinion anyway. I'll take you at your word that you evaluated those 5 hours fairly without looking for SJW under every rock.
    I am gonna be honest, i had not seen ANY forums/articles/etc before playing it. I got involved into the stupid "SJS vs Gators" after that. I actually learned what "gators" are because of this whole thing.

    I bought it and found it horrible. Maybe the decade of BG1 & BG2 mods spoiled me, but i expected Ascention + NPC Project level of writing and banter, along with romances,friendships and etc.

    I would happily play the Imoen Romance ToB when it fully releases (and if so), i know many have prejudice against that mod, but i find the writing and emotion on that mod to be absurdly top notch.

    It managed to make me really invest in the pseudo incestious relationship the mod proposes (along with the awesome "PC gets to teach Imoen about being a bhaalspawn" parts.

    To me if a mod makes me care about something that should be completely and utterly reprehensive in real life (incest), then they managed to be excelent writers.
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