Dude, you have discredited yourself and your patrronizing attack on Amber is just sad now. Trying to shift over to Phillip Daigle is not going to hide anything.
Hide what? that i am frustrated and angry over SoD's quality? I dont think i am trying to hide anything.
I am calling out on the people responsible for it, i initially thought it was Amber Scott, but it seems i was misguided and wrong, i will gladly funnel my frustration towards the ones responsible for it.
Amber is our publishing and marketing coordinator, and the producer for The Familiar, Beamdog's official magazine app for CRPGs (any CRPG, not just Baldur's Gate). She is one of the members of the writing team, but in terms of directing the overall narrative, that's the role of the Lead Designer. As Andrew said at the beginning of this thread, the storyline was more or less solidified long before Amber joined the Beamdog team.
EDIT: As for why people are gathering pitchforks, I would guess it has something to do with an off-hand remark she made during an interview with Kotaku several months prior to the game's release, combined with an unrelated forum post she made in a discussion about representation in writing (both of which have been frequently mistaken to be responses to the game's release, which is incorrect).
I don't take it as a response for the game's release.
I take it as a concern on the direction of the game content going forward (which includes changes to the DLC and to a future BG3) and how we can expect stories and characters to be introduced.
When it is indicated that characters will be changed because they have "bad personalities" and the developers want to "correct/upgrade" them or when we talk about removing a portion of the diversity from the game - which signifies eliminating player option to interact with the world - to show an one dimensional point of view that concerns me as a fan of Baldur's Gate.
That concerns me as a fan of good RPGs that actually have the role playing aspect (If I wanted to have one dimensional experiences I would play Final Fantasy - they can be entertaining, but they are not "role play").
So the issue I have here in this whole debate is simple - is Beamdog going to make stories in the future that cater only one world/political view or is Beamdog going to strive to include all the good and bad of a diverse society without shying away from it - i.e., letting player's role play the experience they want.
I think BG 2 did very good in doing a very open world which allowed for a lot of diverse ways to approach situations - it brought characters with different personalities and that added a lot of flavor because the banter was very nice with the clash of personalities. Some you may call sexist, some you may call plain offensive, some you may call progressive, whatever, but it tried to bring a lot.
I do not say it was perfect, but it was very good and hope for more like that.
So, seriously, if Beamdog came out and officially said something along the lines of:
"Fans, don't misinterpret the message. What we mean to say is that we are striving to have a group of writers with a lot of diversity - with the goal of making a game that allows even more personas and role play options. We don't want to exclude any "ism" because one of our writers thinks its wrong, we want to have more writers so that we can include even more "isms" in that situation so our players can have more options.
No one is the absolute right in Faerun and the Forgotten Realms (Except maybe Ao), and we want the game to bring the choice of the player to approach the world in any various shapes and forms so that each experience in the world is unique.
We will respect source material and not remove the diversity it had, rather we will expand upon it to bring more role playing opportunities to the players."
Obviously a PR professional would do a lot better than that, but you put something like that up now and then deliver on it, boy...
Hello friends. I have discovered more problems with the writing. I made friends with the romance novel loving fellow Anomen. However he keeps saying things like his blade will defeat evil and so on. The problem is that my dear friend Anomen is a Cleric and he cannot wield bladed weapons of any description.
Hello friends. I have discovered more problems with the writing. I made friends with the romance novel loving fellow Anomen. However he keeps saying things like his blade will defeat evil and so on. The problem is that my dear friend Anomen is a Cleric and he cannot wield bladed weapons of any description.
I think he is dual no? Could he use blades when he was a fighter single class?
Hello friends. I have discovered more problems with the writing. I made friends with the romance novel loving fellow Anomen. However he keeps saying things like his blade will defeat evil and so on. The problem is that my dear friend Anomen is a Cleric and he cannot wield bladed weapons of any description.
Well observed, friend. I have another even worse problem: this circus girl, Aerie, has a level that does not make sense! She should be at first level as she has no experience yet.
I suspect the feminists are too blame... where will it end???
Hello friends. I have discovered more problems with the writing. I made friends with the romance novel loving fellow Anomen. However he keeps saying things like his blade will defeat evil and so on. The problem is that my dear friend Anomen is a Cleric and he cannot wield bladed weapons of any description.
I think he is dual no? Could he use blades when he was a fighter single class?
He is dual, but as a Cleric he is forbidden to use bladed weapons regardless of the dual class choice. Unless you mod that is.
Hello friends. I have discovered more problems with the writing. I made friends with the romance novel loving fellow Anomen. However he keeps saying things like his blade will defeat evil and so on. The problem is that my dear friend Anomen is a Cleric and he cannot wield bladed weapons of any description.
How do clerics cut their food? Would they need to have someone do it for them?
Hello friends. I have discovered more problems with the writing. I made friends with the romance novel loving fellow Anomen. However he keeps saying things like his blade will defeat evil and so on. The problem is that my dear friend Anomen is a Cleric and he cannot wield bladed weapons of any description.
Well observed, friend. I have another even worse problem: this circus girl, Aerie, has a level that does not make sense! She should be at first level as she has no experience yet.
I suspect the feminists are too blame... where will it end???
Well, gameplay problems are another whole can of worms i am not opening. Games have been lenient since ever, from Eye of the Beholder to Pillars of Eternity... the "story" and "gameplay" are usually separated.
We also have magical armors that provide us with implausible high (low) armor rating (but thats gamey stuff).
I dont even remember how, but i think i managed to get Dynaheir's AC down to natural -6 using somekind of possibly broken/bugged armors.
Hello friends. I have discovered more problems with the writing. I made friends with the romance novel loving fellow Anomen. However he keeps saying things like his blade will defeat evil and so on. The problem is that my dear friend Anomen is a Cleric and he cannot wield bladed weapons of any description.
How do clerics cut their food? Would they need to have someone do it for them?
Good question friend. My personal theory is that clerics only eat food they can eat with their hands or with a spoon.
Hello friends. I have discovered more problems with the writing. I made friends with the romance novel loving fellow Anomen. However he keeps saying things like his blade will defeat evil and so on. The problem is that my dear friend Anomen is a Cleric and he cannot wield bladed weapons of any description.
How do clerics cut their food? Would they need to have someone do it for them?
So i take you slice your bread with a Bastard Sword? Or you take the save route and use the 2-Hander?
Hello friends. I have discovered more problems with the writing. I made friends with the romance novel loving fellow Anomen. However he keeps saying things like his blade will defeat evil and so on. The problem is that my dear friend Anomen is a Cleric and he cannot wield bladed weapons of any description.
How do clerics cut their food? Would they need to have someone do it for them?
Good question friend. My personal theory is that clerics only eat food they can eat with their hands or with a spoon.
Nonsense! We know clerics only eat summoned food! Only properly *Insert god here* approved food for clerics!
Hello friends. I have discovered more problems with the writing. I made friends with the romance novel loving fellow Anomen. However he keeps saying things like his blade will defeat evil and so on. The problem is that my dear friend Anomen is a Cleric and he cannot wield bladed weapons of any description.
How do clerics cut their food? Would they need to have someone do it for them?
So i take you slice your bread with a Bastard Sword? Or you take the save route and use the 2-Hander?
Personally I use Ashideena and smash the whole loaf into a single slice, which is also nicely toasted due to the extra electrical shock.
Or they don't just make a big fuss about using their bread and butter knife skills.
/e negation added
Ever since Eye of the Beholder, i like to imagine the generic "food rations" are just these brown blocks of protein and nutrients that one simply gobble down and not think about it.
Also... a big revelation folks, one that will shock this discussion to the very core...
In D&D rules, kitchen knives are considered... Tools! Not sharp weapons! Gasp!
My god, the horror! a kitchen knife wielding cleric!
Has anyone considered that by freeing so many slaves during the course of the games that we are possibly destroying the local economies? I think consideration should be given to XP rewards for leaving them right where they are and realizing that things are running just great and we shouldn't really get involved there lest the economy crash and then everything falls to the Sythillisian Empire.
Has anyone considered that by freeing so many slaves during the course of the games that we are possibly destroying the local economies? I think consideration should be given to XP rewards for leaving them right where they are and realizing that things are running just great and we shouldn't really get involved there lest the economy crash and then everything falls to the Sythillisian Empire.
On that note you are devastating the economy by destroying all those golems. Rate of return on those must be humongous.
Something I always enjoyed in the abstract sense but despaired of as a power gamer was the economy in BG1. If you sold a large number of diamonds then you would crash the market and then they wouldn't sell for as much in the future. Any thoughts friends?
Something I always enjoyed in the abstract sense but despaired of as a power gamer was the economy in BG1. If you sold a large number of diamonds then you would crash the market and then they wouldn't sell for as much in the future. Any thoughts friends?
Actually, doesn't that happen to pretty much every sort of item in the BG/IWD games?
Dude, you have discredited yourself and your patrronizing attack on Amber is just sad now. Trying to shift over to Phillip Daigle is not going to hide anything.
Hide what? that i am frustrated and angry over SoD's quality? I dont think i am trying to hide anything.
I am calling out on the people responsible for it, i initially thought it was Amber Scott, but it seems i was misguided and wrong, i will gladly funnel my frustration towards the ones responsible for it.
You played the game for 5 hours. It takes 1 to get out of the first dungeon, 2 if you're soaking it in. Another hour to get out of Baldur's Gate, again, with never having played the game before. Did you even get off of the first wilderness map?
I can see returning the game because you didn't like what you saw thus far, but you're not really qualified to make swath generalizations about a game you've barely played. It hasn't stopped anyone else, granted, but come on. Here's a rough equivalent:
I have been making top ramen in my microwave for 10 years. I call myself a chef.
When a real chef serves me a 7 course meal, I feel uniquely qualified to judge the entire thing based on the first bite. I'm of course entitled to my opinion, but it would be kind of weird if I spent ages criticising the chef's cooking ability over it.
Something I always enjoyed in the abstract sense but despaired of as a power gamer was the economy in BG1. If you sold a large number of diamonds then you would crash the market and then they wouldn't sell for as much in the future. Any thoughts friends?
Actually, doesn't that happen to pretty much every sort of item in the BG/IWD games?
Dude, you have discredited yourself and your patrronizing attack on Amber is just sad now. Trying to shift over to Phillip Daigle is not going to hide anything.
Hide what? that i am frustrated and angry over SoD's quality? I dont think i am trying to hide anything.
I am calling out on the people responsible for it, i initially thought it was Amber Scott, but it seems i was misguided and wrong, i will gladly funnel my frustration towards the ones responsible for it.
You played the game for 5 hours. It takes 1 to get out of the first dungeon, 2 if you're soaking it in. Another hour to get out of Baldur's Gate, again, with never having played the game before. Did you even get off of the first wilderness map?
I can see returning the game because you didn't like what you saw thus far, but you're not really qualified to make swath generalizations about a game you've barely played. It hasn't stopped anyone else, granted, but come on. Here's a rough equivalent:
I have been making top ramen in my microwave for 10 years. I call myself a chef.
When a real chef serves me a 7 course meal, I feel uniquely qualified to judge the entire thing based on the first bite. I'm of course entitled to my opinion, but it would be kind of weird if I spent ages criticising the chef's cooking ability over it.
Having played it through twice, and being on the third run now, i could find myself only agreeing with br4zil. The Plot has plotholes so big you can ride an Elephant Stampede through it. The writing is bad as Multiple Threads in this very forum pointed out. The more people play it the more good examples of the bad writing you will get since it seems the pop up a lot these days.
And how long you will criticise the chef will probably depend on how bad the food tasted in your moth on a scale from 1 to Mr. Creosote.
Dude, you have discredited yourself and your patrronizing attack on Amber is just sad now. Trying to shift over to Phillip Daigle is not going to hide anything.
Hide what? that i am frustrated and angry over SoD's quality? I dont think i am trying to hide anything.
I am calling out on the people responsible for it, i initially thought it was Amber Scott, but it seems i was misguided and wrong, i will gladly funnel my frustration towards the ones responsible for it.
You played the game for 5 hours. It takes 1 to get out of the first dungeon, 2 if you're soaking it in. Another hour to get out of Baldur's Gate, again, with never having played the game before. Did you even get off of the first wilderness map?
I can see returning the game because you didn't like what you saw thus far, but you're not really qualified to make swath generalizations about a game you've barely played. It hasn't stopped anyone else, granted, but come on. Here's a rough equivalent:
I have been making top ramen in my microwave for 10 years. I call myself a chef.
When a real chef serves me a 7 course meal, I feel uniquely qualified to judge the entire thing based on the first bite. I'm of course entitled to my opinion, but it would be kind of weird if I spent ages criticising the chef's cooking ability over it.
Having played it through twice, and being on the third run now, i could find myself only agreeing with br4zil. The Plot has plotholes so big you can ride an Elephant Stampede through it. The writing is bad as Multiple Threads in this very forum pointed out. The more people play it the more good examples of the bad writing you will get since it seems the pop up a lot these days.
And how long you will criticise the chef will probably depend on how bad the food tasted in your moth on a scale from 1 to Mr. Creosote.
You're on a third run through of a game you don't like? That's dedication to the franchise. I take your point, my post was pretty reductive.
@Purudaya: Well i see Baldurs Gate more of a Story...i can also read through Book-Chapters i dont like...its part of the journey. And there are redeeming parts that make a playthrough through this mess worthwhile. Khaalids and Jaheiras Parts in particular...having gone through the Quest and having a bit more to Khaalid than what was there before made his death in BG2 all the more touching.
A lot of those Side-Storys are acutally quite good...the "Main Story" though is not.
Do i think anyone in the BG modding community, on average could write a better story than what Philip & Co. did?
Yes, that includes myself. I would also go on a whim and say that the average reader here at the forums could probably do a better job at it. I have read both on here and on Steam numerous ideas, some of them being really nice and some being really freaking common sense, common sense that apparently they didint had.
Well, you're not doing a great job convincing me of your superior writing skills. Go on a whim? That doesn't even make sense. I think what you're "trying" to say is that you would also "go out on a limb". The ability to make sense when you write is a pretty critical part of doing it well.
Also, "common sense that they didn't had?" That should say that they didn't have.
1 to Mr. Creosote? Really? Was the game unplayable?
@mf2112: Not unplayable...as i said i am currently on my third round through it. I think you may have missunderstood my comment.
I am not quite sure how to misunderstand "1 to Mr. Creosote". Those are "ratings" I might give to a game which is unplayable. Not to a game which I was on the third playthrough on........
Comments
I am calling out on the people responsible for it, i initially thought it was Amber Scott, but it seems i was misguided and wrong, i will gladly funnel my frustration towards the ones responsible for it.
I will speak for myself:
I don't take it as a response for the game's release.
I take it as a concern on the direction of the game content going forward (which includes changes to the DLC and to a future BG3) and how we can expect stories and characters to be introduced.
When it is indicated that characters will be changed because they have "bad personalities" and the developers want to "correct/upgrade" them or when we talk about removing a portion of the diversity from the game - which signifies eliminating player option to interact with the world - to show an one dimensional point of view that concerns me as a fan of Baldur's Gate.
That concerns me as a fan of good RPGs that actually have the role playing aspect (If I wanted to have one dimensional experiences I would play Final Fantasy - they can be entertaining, but they are not "role play").
So the issue I have here in this whole debate is simple - is Beamdog going to make stories in the future that cater only one world/political view or is Beamdog going to strive to include all the good and bad of a diverse society without shying away from it - i.e., letting player's role play the experience they want.
I think BG 2 did very good in doing a very open world which allowed for a lot of diverse ways to approach situations - it brought characters with different personalities and that added a lot of flavor because the banter was very nice with the clash of personalities. Some you may call sexist, some you may call plain offensive, some you may call progressive, whatever, but it tried to bring a lot.
I do not say it was perfect, but it was very good and hope for more like that.
So, seriously, if Beamdog came out and officially said something along the lines of:
"Fans, don't misinterpret the message. What we mean to say is that we are striving to have a group of writers with a lot of diversity - with the goal of making a game that allows even more personas and role play options. We don't want to exclude any "ism" because one of our writers thinks its wrong, we want to have more writers so that we can include even more "isms" in that situation so our players can have more options.
No one is the absolute right in Faerun and the Forgotten Realms (Except maybe Ao), and we want the game to bring the choice of the player to approach the world in any various shapes and forms so that each experience in the world is unique.
We will respect source material and not remove the diversity it had, rather we will expand upon it to bring more role playing opportunities to the players."
Obviously a PR professional would do a lot better than that, but you put something like that up now and then deliver on it, boy...
I would be an extra happy fan.
I suspect the feminists are too blame... where will it end???
We also have magical armors that provide us with implausible high (low) armor rating (but thats gamey stuff).
I dont even remember how, but i think i managed to get Dynaheir's AC down to natural -6 using somekind of possibly broken/bugged armors.
/e negation added
Also... a big revelation folks, one that will shock this discussion to the very core...
In D&D rules, kitchen knives are considered... Tools! Not sharp weapons! Gasp!
My god, the horror! a kitchen knife wielding cleric!
I can see returning the game because you didn't like what you saw thus far, but you're not really qualified to make swath generalizations about a game you've barely played. It hasn't stopped anyone else, granted, but come on. Here's a rough equivalent:
I have been making top ramen in my microwave for 10 years. I call myself a chef.
When a real chef serves me a 7 course meal, I feel uniquely qualified to judge the entire thing based on the first bite. I'm of course entitled to my opinion, but it would be kind of weird if I spent ages criticising the chef's cooking ability over it.
And how long you will criticise the chef will probably depend on how bad the food tasted in your moth on a scale from 1 to Mr. Creosote.
Except for the ramen analogy. I stand by that
A lot of those Side-Storys are acutally quite good...the "Main Story" though is not.
Also, "common sense that they didn't had?" That should say that they didn't have.