So when are we...

Icecreamtub

going to represent Intersex within the setting of Baldur's Gate?

Since, ya'know, we're all for equality, equal opportunities and representation here at Beamdog.

Edit: To prevent any further confusion or any ill-feelings towards this Thread;

If I need to give out a briefing on what Intersex is, I will happily do such to be rid of any confusion.

I'm honestly not trying to add or manipulate the controversy at hand to gain some kind of popularity on the discussion. If anything, this is the best time to ask what people's opinions on an Intersexed character being involved would be, for my own personal curiosity and nothing more. Hence why this is a simple poll and not intentionally designed to spawn another Saga. I am wholeheartedly just interested to see what people's stance on an Intersex fantasy character being involved in the Forgotten Realms.

If it does spawn one, then I can only apologise that people want to take it there as I honestly do not want too.

Admittedly, yes, I am poking a minor amount of fun at the controversy, and I can be seen doing as such on different threads and the Forums in general; that much is very blatantly obvious.

The answers don't mean anything of what my goal with this poll is, they are simply there to attempt to account for everyone's views, whether it be a misunderstanding or not. It was not designed in mind to make people assume this Thread was in league with anything else.

Lord_Tansheron

Is there really a need to troll on an already inflammatory topic?

Icecreamtub

You think I'm trolling?

That's a shame.

Silverstar

For those of us not in on the lingo (there's places in the world where this sort of thing just doesn't come up in conversation believe it or not), what does that actually mean? *puzzled*

Icecreamtub

There's no lingo, but you are also welcome to simply just... Google it? >.>

Silverstar

Icecreamtub said:

There's no lingo, but you are also welcome to simply just... Google it? >.>

Since my question was on the poll I figured it was reasonable to ask, and I assumed this would be related the trans topics of late, so search results would come up as urban dictionary definitions or something. I don't tend to put a lot of stock in that. Sorry for misunderstanding though.

Icecreamtub

It was more less the fact you could have Googled it in a less time frame than commenting, but anyway, Intersex is someone who has sex organs of either sex or genitalia, there isn't any set in stone one-combination, it can essentially be anything. Nothing to do with being Trans.

Silverstar

Icecreamtub said:

It was more less the fact you could have Googled it in a less time frame than commenting

And it could also just have not been on the poll if it wasn't meant to be asked.

But now I do know. So thank you.

To answer the question it should be represented in the setting whenever it is relevant. It wouldn't be early in a conversation tree with a character you just met, like with Mizhena, probably. As part of the extended story for a character once you get to know them, sure, that would work. That's my take on it.

JumboWheat01

In truth, I simply do not care. If it is there? Fine. If it is not there? Also fine. All this agenda talk is dreadfully boring and it will not have an effect on how much I enjoy a game one-way or another.

Grum

When will we get an overt victimized cis crying about everything in game? Given how vocal they are it is a crime that they are not represented!

FinneousPJ

We need to have 7 billion NPCs in the next game. That way everyone is represented.

wraith5641

Just...stop, seriously. We're all getting fed up of it. This has been played out to death for the past week. There are plenty of better ways to have these discussions that benefit the forum, the game, the community, and Beamdog.

For the next couple of weeks at least, I really don't want to hear about the controversy. It is serious starting to bother a lot of people.

wraith5641

@Lord_Tansheron Apparently there is still a minority that insists on having the same discussion over and over and over again.

When will it end?

semiticgoddess

Why does the concept of trans characters existing bother people so much? Let it go.

wraith5641

It's not the concept of trans characters existing that bothers people. It's the people that are making a big deal about it that is. It's the baggage it seems to inevitably bring that is causing the animosity. It's too much. It's boring. It doesn't help.

Let's have a discussion about how poor modern storytelling is. I'm all for that. Let's talk about the fact that modern developers who are in bed with Kotaku and Gawker have no idea how to write characters that anyone really cares about.

Icecreamtub

This thread has absolutely nothing mentioning anything about Trans people.

Anyone bringing it into this Thread is bringing it here, don't throw eggs at me and tell me it's a raining hate crime.

semiticgoddess

@Icecreamtub: The thread is about intersex people. Trans is part of the same controversy, so it makes sense for one of them to get mixed in by accident. But replace "trans" with "intersex" and I have the same question.

wraith5641

Diversity in general is the flavor of the month where BG is concerned. You are obviously raising your particular issue in response to the controversy.

semiticgoddess

wraith5641 said:

Diversity in general is the flavor of the month where BG is concerned. You are obviously raising your particular issue in response to the controversy.

To clarify, is that addressed to me or somebody else? I can't tell.

wraith5641

@semiticgod It was addressed to the OP, who commented above me. They were talking to both of us.

Sorry, I didn't tag because I thought it may have been obvious.

Edit: I just scrolled above and saw we left similar comments at basically the same time..lol.

Edit: Second edit, I'm not sure on what pronouns the OP likes using.......

Icecreamtub

Since when did Trans/Intersex become similar or one and the same?

If I need to give out a briefing on what's what, I will happily do such to rid of any confusion.

I'm honestly not trying to add or manipulate the controversy at hand to gain some kind of popularity on the discussion. If anything, this is the best time to ask what people's opinions on an Intersexed character being involved would be, for my own personal curiosity and nothing more. Hence why this is a simple poll and not intentionally designed to spawn another Saga. I am wholeheartedly just interested to see what people's stance on an Intersex fantasy character being involved in the Forgotten Realms.

If it does spawn one, then I can only apologise that people want to take it there as I honestly do not want too.

Admittedly, yes, I am poking a minor amount of fun at the controversy, and I can be seen doing as such on different threads and the Forums in general; that much is very blatantly obvious.

The answers don't mean anything of what my goal with this poll is, they are simply there to attempt to account for everyone's views, whether it be a misunderstanding or not. It was not designed in mind to make people assume this Thread was in league with anything else.

Edit 1: Pronouns? Just call me Cinnamon if you would like to direct a comment for a response.

semiticgoddess

@Icecreamtub: Okay, that's good news. I'll go ahead and vote, then.

I don't think this should be an issue in the first place, but I do know that some people would like to see intersex and trans people in games, so why not? It's a good thing for them and a neutral thing for everyone else.

Icecreamtub

@semiticgod

I'm going to add my post to the original as an Edit to prevent any further confusion or annoyance.

wraith5641

As with everything else, as long as the character is well written and loveable (or hateable in a good way), it doesn't matter what their gender, race, or sexuality is. All that matters is the writing. We need great writers.

Unfortunately, I don't really see a surge in world-class creative writing in the mainstream at the moment. George RR Martin is out there on his own. It is certainly lacking in the gaming industry, and that's because it has been corrupted by drama merchants. The story has dropped way down the list of priorities. That needs to change, especially if we want to find a way of naturally incorporating "diverse" characters.

booinyoureyes

These discussions are incredibly obnoxious. I'm tired of having so many threads about this issue, it takes up the entire board. I'm also tired of people trying to tweak another side in this "debate".I think I'm gonna follow Shandyr's move and take a leave of absence until people move on to better things. I surrender.

wraith5641

@booinyoureyes Giant space hamsters don't surrender

Grum

booinyoureyes said:

These discussions are incredibly obnoxious. I'm tired of having so many threads about this issue, it takes up the entire board. I'm also tired of people trying to tweak another side in this "debate".I think I'm gonna follow Shandyr's move and take a leave of absence until people move on to better things. I surrender.

And that is how we lose our forum and community to a vocal influx of whiny trolls and cry babies. I'm starting to think that all of these raging haters are so insecure in their gender/sexuality that they need to prove themselves via their crusade. Since they have mobbed our board I have seen comments that are disgusting and would never have had a place here. From the absolute lowest (talking about watching porn while typing) to the mind boggling (complaining about losing white culture). If people like you allow them to take over then they win.

wraith5641

@Grum The obvious trolls are a given. They aren't the problem. It's pretty easy to ignore people that don't have anything constructive to say and only want to throw around insults.

The problem are the people who are knee-deep in identity politics (on either side of the issue) trying to hijack and divert the discussion away from the game and onto their agenda. There are regulars on this forum that have contributed to that, unfortunately.

The best way to handle this situation is to leave intelligent and rational comments and hang in there until it starts to sink in. Let rationale control the conversation. Don't be bulldozed over by those that shout the loudest.

Icecreamtub

@wraith5641

And yet, that is an opinion. It matters to quite a lot of people to whether something is relatable or not. I do not truly believe a character's background means nothing, even if it's written poorly or exceptionally, you can respect the person wrote it to bring attention to something. What that something might be, is entirely subject to the person who reads it; unless they directly ask the Writer.

@Grum & Everyone else mentioning this

It honestly impresses me that not many people seem to be aware that this isn't the first time something like this has happened on these Forums, it also intrigues me that I have not seen a single comment about how all of this all started on the 31st of March/1st of April. At this point, it does feel like a very long-winded April Fool's joke that was intended to start a controvery, since Beamdog is very aware of what happens when they include a specified minority into their game.

wraith5641

@Icecreamtub If you want to make something more relatable, focus on someone's personality, since that is the most important factor in relatability. 3 people of completely different sexualities can all find something in common in terms of their personalities.

A character's background is definitely important, and that is why it has to be written well.

Icecreamtub

@wraith5641

Perhaps we see things differently, I do not have access to a lot of character's that I can feel I truly relate to. As an example; I personally have to nit-pick at a certain aspect of someone and bridge it on that single aspect, rather than the character as a whole. Whilst I can appreciate the character (or not in reference to the despicable Eldoth), that however doesn't mean I can relate to them, I can only merely understand the background and respect their struggles, and perhaps force a connection between an experience or trait I share with them. This makes it difficult to attempt a roleplay in a setting where I do not feel included, hence why I do not roleplay very often within a game, since it doesn't feel like I'm escaping anything - I am merely walking out of one room to another filled with what I'm trying to avoid.

A sexuality to a character may be added to give flavour to their flamboyancy or to accentuate their active nature, however, another reason is to just give a space or something for a person to latch onto and immerse themselves in, allowing them to relate and obtain access to something they perhaps lack in their life; Since gaming is a form of escapism for the most part. This can be quite impacting, empowering and make somebody feel included in the given setting. It does not need to be written well, as long as it gets the general point across in a way it should be, then I see no issue.