Remove black map borders, revert local area map to v1.3 functionality

agris

I'd like to start a discussion with users about what they think about the inclusion of this graphical option.

As the title states, I wish for the option to limit the panning of the gameplay map to only the map edge- not past it. Beamdog has stated that panning the camera past map borders is a feature, but it's clearly an unwanted one for some users and we would appreciate the ability to disable this functionality.

http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/21011
http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/21535
http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/22299

Status changed from Will Not Fix to Not an Issue

This is by design. The user interface used to cover several locations(such as the south border of maps). They attempted to make it dock with the UI but it never quite worked correctly. This way is far smoother.

Or make the ability to pan the view out of bounds optional/only available for mobile versions of the game (Tablets, phones etc.)

I understand why this was introduced but it's pretty ridiculous to be able to move the map borders into the center of the screen. Surely that much isn't necessary. It would look much better to remove most of this visible blank space.

I believe that this change to the map borders was done to facilitate the new area map. It looks good, but is a classic example of form over function. So what I'm asking for, is the option to revert the local area map to v1.3 functionality and the concomitant disabling of these excessive black borders.

Additionally, the new local area map has LESS functionality than the old one! We used to be able to scroll the area map with the keyboard, and with the new map functionality we no longer can. This is yet another example of a change that no one asked for which reduces functionality.

Regardless, the feature is *neat* but I think a not-insignificant portion of your playerbase would appreciate reverting the map panning feature and local area map (if these two things really are coupled) to v1.3 functionality.

@Natreg @ScottBrooks @Dee @bengoshi @Cerevant

Silverstar

I like the new map functionality. But I really dislike the border thing. It's ugly.

Mikey205

The borders are horrifically ugly. Really breaks immersion. I like the map functionality though.

illathid

Love the new borders. I can have the map centered on my party at all times, even when in the corner of map.

Plus having a black area outside the playable portion of the map is nothing new. It's how all interior maps have worked forever.

ArasHUN

Mikey205 said:

The borders are horrifically ugly. Really breaks immersion. I like the map functionality though.

I was going to say exactly the same thing. "Here you can see my party in Baldur's Gate, standing right next to the abyss that is currently half my screen." Also, if anything it makes the smaller maps feel even smaller. If my camera was locked inside the map at least I could imagine that the city continues past my screen, this way I legitimately feel like I'm walking on a piece of colored cardboard.

I like the zooming in/out feature but I don't like how I can't drag the screen in map view. I would always do that but apparently I must have been in the minority?

Mikey205

illathid said:

Love the new borders. I can have the map centered on my party at all times, even when in the corner of map.

Plus having a black area outside the playable portion of the map is nothing new. It's how all interior maps have worked forever.

Interior maps are tilted so you don't get weird straight line cut offs, they also end within the confines of the map. They are black around the outside but its area that wouldnt really be visible mostly so acceptable. On outdoor maps you literally have trees bisected and its incredibly immersion breaking for me and many people so the ability to switch would be very much appreciated given thats how its always worked and many dont like this new way. I like most of the interface changes but absolutely loathe this one. Its so ugly.

Mikey205

ArasHUN said:

Mikey205 said:

The borders are horrifically ugly. Really breaks immersion. I like the map functionality though.

I was going to say exactly the same thing. "Here you can see my party in Baldur's Gate, standing right next to the abyss that is currently half my screen." Also, if anything it makes the smaller maps feel even smaller. If my camera was locked inside the map at least I could imagine that the city continues past my screen, this way I legitimately feel like I'm walking on a piece of colored cardboard.

I like the zooming in/out feature but I don't like how I can't drag the screen in map view. I would always do that but apparently I must have been in the minority?

Exactly its really bad on small maps.

amyae

The black borders are so ugly. (And maybe it's just me, but scrolling through the map feels more sluggish now, even if I increase my mouse sensitivity.) Making it optional would be great. More UI customization to make everybody happy

deltago

Borders need to go or at least severely trimmed or repaint the black so it matches the maps and have us transition from an invisible line.

I like the new map feature though.

Mikey205

deltago said:

Borders need to go or at least severely trimmed or repaint the black so it matches the maps and have us transition from an invisible line.

I like the new map feature though.

I was thinking about that having some sort of different colour border, but I think would be hard to do well so I'd rather they gave an option to set it back the way it was.

The map functionality I really, really like as well as the new interface colours, so I'm not a traditionalist but this really bothers me.

Orangemoose

agris said:

panning the camera past map borders is a feature

I honestly thought it was a bug when I first encountered it.
I understand it's due to the new UI's format, but it's just so ugly and immersion breaking.
I would much prefer a tighter viewing screen to this.

illathid

Mikey205 said:

illathid said:

Love the new borders. I can have the map centered on my party at all times, even when in the corner of map.

Plus having a black area outside the playable portion of the map is nothing new. It's how all interior maps have worked forever.

Interior maps are tilted so you don't get weird straight line cut offs, they also end within the confines of the map. They are black around the outside but its area that wouldnt really be visible mostly so acceptable. On outdoor maps you literally have trees bisected and its incredibly immersion breaking for me and many people so the ability to switch would be very much appreciated given thats how its always worked and many dont like this new way. I like most of the interface changes but absolutely loathe this one. Its so ugly.

That sounds like a personal problem to me.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Purudaya

I'm playing on a windows touch device and really appreciate the new map functionality for panning/party selection. I would rather see them make the border toggleable than fully revert.

Silverstar

Purudaya said:

I'm playing on a windows touch device and really appreciate the new map functionality for panning/party selection. I would rather see them make the border toggleable than fully revert.

Options is always a good thing. Another toggle would be welcome.

joluv

Silverstar said:

Options is always a good thing. Another toggle would be welcome.

If they just let us toggle the individual bits, then we could all have exactly the game we wanted. We don't need you making choices for us, Beamdog! We're adults!

But yeah, if a toggle for this would be reasonably easy to implement, it seems like a good idea.

agris

Optional is all I'm asking for. I know a group of users like this new scheme, and I'm happy for them. I just wish those of us who dislike it had a way to revert to the map rendering scheme.

Would love it if a Beamdog person would drop in here to comment.

Mikey205

Ye I like new local map but rid of black borders.

HoboJoe0858

I would love an option to toggle it off, the new map is cool and all but I prefer the older one much more. I hope they add this.

cmk24

I get the feeling that removing the black borders might break cutscenes: over the head dialog boxes my run off the side of the map since the people talking would not be in the centre of the screen anymore.

JuliusBorisov

I see @agris tagged me in the OP, so here what I have to say.

I was the first to report about these black borders on the forums when the open beta started - https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/48859/is-the-black-space-that-you-can-see-an-intended-look-of-the-end-of-the-map#latest

It looked strange to me but the first thought I had when noticing it was: "it may look strange but it's a part of new UI functionality". And my guess turned right: according to Dee, it allows for a number of things to work more intuitively, and also allows some edge-of-the-map signs to display fully without being cut off at the side of the screen.

Datakim

Its depressing how the more I learn, the less I want to play through EE series now. Don't care or even understand the apparent SoD "controversy" (I did not even get the Minsc reference/joke at all?), but all these technical issues make me want to play EE less and less. In truth I don't have the game yet. Well, I do have EE1 (bought it years and years ago to briefly test it out) but never played it (was waiting for the whole series, and after that SoD to go through it all with one character in one huge playthrough). Was also waiting for that annoying attacks per round bug to be fixed (it was fixed in 2.0. If only new bigger issues had not appeared).

Now I have doubts if I will get EE2/SoD. From the screenshots I know this issue for exaple would really annoy me, and apparently "its not a bug, its a feature" excuse is being used, which means it won't be fixed. The rest of the news about the buggy mess that the 2.0 series apparently is, is depressing to hear too, but I was more than willing to be patient and wait until thats all fixed (since I assume/hope it will be). Don't much like the pictures of the new UI either, but apparently its very moddable so I have faith someone will fix that too (its also less in your face thing).

This issue however seems like the kind of hardcoded thing that modders can't really fix. And since Beamdog apparently won't, its not going to go away, and will be here forever.

illathid said:

Plus having a black area outside the playable portion of the map is nothing new. It's how all interior maps have worked forever.

Naah, that blackness was there because of the Fog of War. You could not see whats on the other side of the wall, so it was under the same kind of Fog that maps normally are until you explore those areas. Its been a while, but I think there were outside areas (like say areas of bg-city) that had major walls that you actually had to reach the other side to until the fog lifted and you saw what was on the other side. Its the same thing here and there are people and things on the other side of the interior walls, we just don't see them.

Now is that actually the case in truth? Was there really stuff on the other side of interior walls? No, but its so very easy to maintain Suspension of Disbelief by telling myself that it is and avoid breaking immersion there. The clear human made lines of walls make the darkness so much more acceptable and easier to ignore.

See here: http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/File:Poultry_Store_Interior_Full.png

Makes sense that my characters can't see whats on the other side of that wall, since it blocks sight. That mental justification is unusable in the outside areas, since in the pictures like the one here https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/50312/black-border-around-map, my player SHOULD be able to see whats in that blackness over there.

Nothing blocking sight, so I am hit with the head with a ITS A SILLY GAME UI FEATURE that basically backstabs my SoD for major major damage.

While there are probably(?) maps (especially small encounter maps or such) that have some of this problem in the original series/1.3, its much rarer and I can't really recall major issues in the original games. Bioware atleast tried to help me keep up the illusion that I am really there, in Faerun, playing a child of Bhaal.

But now? I look at the pictures of half of the screen filled with grass that abrubtly transforms into darkness in a way thats impossible for me to mentally ignore and just feel depressed. Sigh.

Mikey205

It does look silly, but after a while it fades into the background. I really want an option to disable it, but can live with it. Overall though the new interface is a nice upgrade and the minor issues are no reason not to play BG:EE. I definitely could not go back to modded Baldur's Gate Tutu now. I just want this to be the perfect version of Baldur's Gate.

illathid

@Datakim
Just use the same mental justification about the area outside of the wall for the area outside of the map. It's not hard. It's black because there's nothing worth seeing there. Boom.

Ammar

I don't care as much as some of the fellows here, but I liked the old behaviour more. The borders don't bother me in dungeons and not much in urban settings.

But I am currently playing BG 1 again and the wilderness areas really felt better without the borders.

Datakim

illathid said:

@Datakim
Just use the same mental justification about the area outside of the wall for the area outside of the map. It's not hard. It's black because there's nothing worth seeing there. Boom.

Because empty field of the grass or a couple of trees was so worth it (common in bg1 areas)? Yeah no, that excuse won't work. Its half screen of pure black because the game UI says its black and Beamdog was unwilling to spend the effort of finding a better way of fixing it or adding an option for people who are bothered by it and liked the old approach more.

Frankly, if they had actually modified the current areas and added "border areas" where you had more forest or more empty field of grass and other such continuation of the current area that was all full of area trigger and which you could not actually enter but which was still visible, I would have had far less issue with it.

You apparently have no difficulty with this. I am truly happy for you. Unfortunately, I don't share your views here. I look at the horrid picture posted in the other thread an am filled with both annoyance and disappointment.

GreenWarlock

one big difference between fog-of-war and the screenshots of the black border I have seen (patch still not available in Mac App store) is that the fog of war is line-of-sight based, it is has an 'organic' feel that interacts with you, and is not clean-cut hard lines. The strict black border is always a hard edge, which gives it a very unnatural feel. If it could be softened with a little fog-like effect around the map edges, that might mitigate the worst of the damage.

agris

The thing is, there must still be scroll blockers for the maps. That's why we can't scroll infinitely into the darkness. The question then is, are they hardcoded or can we change them?

Mikey205

Would be awesome if someone could fix this with a mod as its very disconcerting for some of us. I can live with it, but it is a downgrade.

illathid

By setting the map the way they do it allows for better game functionality. That always trumps "immersion" in my book.

Azzara

Either revert to the old style or embrace the new design. Why are we still pixel hunting for the area exit even when 75% of the screen is already outside the map?

clos4life

You people will whine about anything. Seriously, I don't like the trans character or SJWs but this game, other than bugs, has been awesome. Love the UI and new features.

That being said, surely the option can be created for those people who don't like change. As long as we don't get rid of the actual improvements, which, having my party on the center of the screen at all times for me is nice. But I'm not opposed to limiting the map borders for those who feel they will lose immersion.