@Bynary_Fission I don't know if this is considered cheese, but don't forget to cast Sanctuary then Harm. Then touch your enemy. (Sanctuary buys time as Harm has a long casting round). Also any fighter (ranger)/cleric/druid multiclass can choose Critical Strike as a HLA. This guarantees a hit. Sanctuary/Harm/Critical Strike works for me.
@Bynary_Fission I don't know if this is considered cheese, but don't forget to cast Sanctuary then Harm. Then touch your enemy. (Sanctuary buys time as Harm has a long casting round). Also any fighter (ranger)/cleric/druid multiclass can choose Critical Strike as a HLA. This guarantees a hit. Sanctuary/Harm/Critical Strike works for me.
Yeah...that seems pretty cheesy haha. I'm trying to avoid that - I haven't even used Mislead once this whole game despite having had access to it for some time.
@Ligg : Currently, Grandmastery (+++++) in Quarterstaves and max (++) on two handed weapon fighting. I don't think I'll be allowed any other proficiency point anyway, so I think I am done on that front :P
Anyway, update from my run too. As mentioned, I went to complete the Unseeing eye quest (can't recall, did I mention that?)
At any rate, didn't encounter much trouble, aside from a Flesh to Stone trap set on the bridge till you hit the temple of Amanuator in the Lower Reaches. Finally though, I hit my goal - Tenser Transformation, the spell that will allow me to kill things like an actual fighter for once XD
Beholders and the Unseeing eye were no match for me, err, I mean, my shield of Balduran XD Truth be told, I find the latter ridiculous - Attack melee, attempt power word : stun, attack melee, attempt power word : stun, ad infinitum. What's up with that?
Mordenkeinen Swords provided much comfort too - they are just immune to EVERYTHING anyway XD Also, disappointed to not have met a random lich encounter in the Undead city close to the Unseeing Eye's Caves. Would have loved sparring match
So yeah, here's my inventory :
Here's my character :
And here's my character in full battle mode
Note that once my Melf Minute Meteors run out, the THAC0 goes to -2 and APR go to 5/2, but that's nothing dramatic. This character is really working out well.
Also, all Saving Throws are super close to 0 when I am in full battle mode NEXT STOP, one of the Dragons! Or maybe the Shadow Thieves' guild quest... I dunno... which one is harder? XD /sarcasm
@Dragonspear : I think I'll keep Watcher's Keep for after Shadows of Amn entirely. Some items there are too overpowered for anything pre-nine hells. Having the Staff of the Ram +4 on Shadows of Amn would be fantastic though. Will make do with the Staff of Rynn +4 though, since I'm amassing awesome amounts of gold.
As for Draw Upon Holy Might - it will be a big big BIG loss, but not horrible. There are replacements, namely the Belts of Giant Strength, more specifically, the Frost Giant Strength belt from the Underdark. Sure, this will mean I won't be able to craft Crom Faeyr, but I won't be good with that weapon anyway, so it's not a big loss. Staff of the Magi with any other damaging staff in conjunction is one of the most lethal combos, if not THE most lethal combo in the game.
Yeah...that seems pretty cheesy haha. I'm trying to avoid that - I haven't even used Mislead once this whole game despite having had access to it for some time.
What defines real cheese? Mislead is cheesy because you can exploit it ways not intended from the spell description. The obvious is to cast it in a room away from your enemies and simply leave your double behind as you walk into the fight permanently unseen. If you have a tactics mod where enemy mages use Mislead properly then it's not that cheesy: it's easily dispelled by most divination and it's a vulnerable target. Sanctuary/Harm, at least, uses both spells as they were intended. Is cheese a personal choice? - one person's cheddar is another's Gorgonzola.
What do you do when you like both Cheddar and Gorgonzola?
By the way, I try to avoid cheese in my games unless I'm tired and want to finish a fight fast. But I'd use it without regret if I ever played a solo run...
I rolled up a new FMT to play around with on the side. Went Quarterstaff/Bow with her this time and dumped all her initial starting points into Stealth.
The way I figure it, I'm going to have to play most of the game from the shadow's early so the extra stealth will make up for the other points. Besides, with how fast you level solo, I should still have a decent enough trap and lock pick score by the time I really start to need them anyway.
Has anyone consider trying a sorcerer run in this challenge? Also, is it consider cheating if you parallel games at the same time to test the water? Like I make 2 sorcerer characters - one is the no death challenge and the other one lets me reload? This way I can play out the correct strategy for the encounter.
I think that sounds like a perfectly logical strat bbear. Furthermore it would reduce the frustration, allowing you to continue on with one version. You just have to keep the no death challenge consistent at the start.
As far as Sorcerer goes, its kinda hard to do currently with this thread cause we're doing it Vanilla, no mods. In order to be a sorc we'd have to add Tutu or Trilogy. That said I could definitely see a sorc doing it come BGEE.
While rules say no mods, I'd hardly consider it cheating for a solo sorcerer. I mean, in BG1, a sorcerer gets what, like up till fourth level spells? I mean, sure, you'd have the chance of Stoneskin, or Improved invisibility, but it's not a huge advantage overall. What does the challenge giver say?
@Dragonspear : I am not overly sure, but for the Nashkel mines traps you need a score of as low as 15 to detect and disable them. I might be wrong, but I believe I *did* disable them once with such a low find traps score. Don't know about the lightning bolt in the Bandit camp, or the web traps in cloakwood though.
@Ligg : there are three terms that can be used in Baldur's Gate, regarding the way you play -
Cheating : use the console and the cheat keys to do whatever you want (only cheating if you're on a gaming run, not testing around)
Exploiting : Use the game engine against its rules to win battles, get more rewards, or stuff like that. (like fake-talking, etc...)
Cheese : Use weak tactics against powerful, but super super SUPER dumb enemies (in which case mislead fits properly. Cloudkill vs. Dragons also fits in well) .
I was basing that off what was said at the start of the thread. @Bynary_Fission wanted to do it without mods.
As far as the low trap score. I'll level my thief levels at least 3 times before Nashkel as a minimum. That would still allow for 75ish trap score (assuming I ignore pick locks). That's why I'm not as worried about gimping myself now. That said I think the max for a FMT is 6/6/7 for ToTSC, so basically I'm going to be going to be dumping points in pick locks and traps 10/10 after I get them evened up.
Yeah...that seems pretty cheesy haha. I'm trying to avoid that - I haven't even used Mislead once this whole game despite having had access to it for some time.
What defines real cheese? Mislead is cheesy because you can exploit it ways not intended from the spell description. The obvious is to cast it in a room away from your enemies and simply leave your double behind as you walk into the fight permanently unseen. If you have a tactics mod where enemy mages use Mislead properly then it's not that cheesy: it's easily dispelled by most divination and it's a vulnerable target. Sanctuary/Harm, at least, uses both spells as they were intended. Is cheese a personal choice? - one person's cheddar is another's Gorgonzola.
Agreed. It's why I chose not to ban the use of cheese - I was merely stating that *I* was going to try and avoid tactics that I consider cheesy. Good analogy, by the way - that sums the subjectivity of it all quite well.
And keep in mind, as Dragonspear iterated there are no mods on this run, so any tactics mod you mention (like SCS) will not be present. I will admit, if I had something like that installed I'd be a little more willing to bend certain rules. :P
Encountered one of those glitches that remove all my will to play the game - the dreaded Greater Werewolf SUPERGIGA regeneration glitch. Which I can't solve no matter how many spells I employ. If I won't be able to pass through that point, I simply won't continue my challenge... /suckstohavebugs
@Cheesebelly i believe the traps in the cloakwood require 60, maybe 50 at the lowest, i usually have no lower than 80 at that point so it's been a while, and i think the lightning bolt is somewhere around 40/50 as well
Hey, you want to know why I obsessively buff each and every time I go anywhere? I was in the third level of Watcher's Keep, and I had just healed Yakman and taken his stuff. I was debating which direction to go, and I knew that the east passage led to a dead magic zone with three cornugons and a balor...my bad luck would kick in and guarantee a rolled 1 against any instant-death situation, so I decided to head west. However, in changing course I forgot to buff, for the first time in the whole game. Guess what happens? I instantly roll a 1 in the wild magic room and get charmed (without the associated status symbol). Yup. Literally the one and only time I forget to buff I instantly roll a fucking 1 and get killed before I can react. This of course nicely complements a previous run in which the first time I ran into a Flesh to Stone spell I get petrified with a save v. spell of 3 (and my save v. death was even lower).
/long rant
But I've since made up my progress after a good 6-7 hours of nonstop playing.
------------------------- Sailin' the High Seas -------------------------
I've spent the better part of the day working my way back up to where I was. I've acquired much of the gear that I will keep until the end of the game - the Flail of Ages, the Ring of Gaxx, the Boots of Speed, and the Amulet of Power to name a few. I also have some other sweet stuff that will serve me for quite a while, but as you can see by the below picture I have acquired the second component of the Big Metal Unit - only the nickel panties (?) remain.
I have reached chapter 4, and in doing so have effectively stranded myself from completing any quests on the mainland until chapter 6. But I do not mind - chapters 4 and 5 are among the most fun and interesting of the game, in my opinion (I LOVE the romp through Spellhold). I haven't tended to my keep at all (not that I need to, I have more gold than I know what to do with). I've also left a few quests unfinished, such as the Thieves Guild, the Slaver Quest and the Cult of the Eyeless. I don't want to max out until at least the very tail end of SoA - otherwise it would sap some of my motivation to continue.
My character's stats are very impressive at this point - I have acquired numerous HLAs, I have access to my Cleric's Level 7 spells and my mage is also at the same point. My THAC0, which is normally pretty subpar, is actually developing far enough to where I can hit an enemy consistently as opposed to the useless swinging of weapons that generally occurred before. It's a shame I can't put three slots in Two Weapon fighting, because my THAC0 is somewhat unbalanced as a result, though at this point it's good either way. These are my current stats and items:
Okay...time for the next update, and my last before I head off from my all-day marathon.
--------------------- Into the Heart of Darkness ---------------------
Making it through Spellhold was simple enough. But I can't get over just how *fun* it is. I don't know what it is about that level but I never tire of getting through it. All the puzzles are certainly interesting, even if I have done them many times over. I chose to opt out of the whorehouse quest, since I am keenly interested in getting into the Underdark, the next place of interest...and where my character current stands at the threshold of. I got a bit nervous facing Irenicus when he dispelled all of my buffs, so I went to the edge of the screen and cast a Deva to finish my dirty work - I already had him down to Badly wounded when this occurred.
I also chose to do the Sahuagin quest, if only for one thing: the Cloak of Mirroring. Resistant to all forms of magical damage, you say? On a no-death run, you say? Why not the Cloak of Mirroring? But enough referencing of a certain Decapodian ichthyoid. I reneged on my no-RP stance and did just a *bit* of semi-roleplaying: I massacred all of the Sahuagin despite it not being necessary. I'm just not in the mood for fish, I guess. I've acquired all the stuff in the area even though it hasn't replaced any of my gear, the previously mentioned cloak notwithstanding.
Aside from that, there isn't much else to report on. My character has some room to advance yet, though my XP is bumping up on 6 million. This is to be expected - I suspect that I will hit my 8 million cap by Chapter 7, or so I hope. There is no attached image of my inventory, since as I mentioned before little has changed, though I am VERY happy to have the Bag of Holding. No more having to shuffle my junk around and prioritize what loot I get: I can just take it all!
What happened to this thread? Did the players gave up on this challenge?
I plan on doing a variant of this challenge soon after I complete my bg2 low level challenge. The variant is that I can reload, but I will minimize and record the number of times my pc dies in the game. I hope this less restrictive rule can inspire others to take on this challenge. Play and share your journey in the BG saga!
With starting proficiency in Missile Weapons (For Crossbows) and Blunt Weapons (For Quarterstaves). This one will become a Blade in BG2.
Paladin: Lady Arveene LG Human Str: 18/87 Dex: 18 Con: 18 Int: 7 Wis: 13 Cha: 18
Starting proficiency in Blunt weapons (WARHAMMERS REPRESENT) and 1 pip in both axes and longswords. That way I can carry around throwing axes if I need to and also make sure I have the weapons I need to ToTSC monsters.
Also tempted to try either a solo archer or solo stalker. That said leave some comments on things you'd like to see soloed (Not necessarily hard core but I'll keep track of my deaths) and add them. I think I might have to do a solo run since my current Elven Fighter/Mage kinda killed the same for me since I had to rush up to Coran and now I don't wanna play her cause I don't wanna go back and do all the side-quests.
@bbear : I personally gave up because of 4 greater Wolfweres in Firkraag's dungeon, which happen to be regenerating, bugfully, 100 health per second XD Furthermore, I had a few other obligations with a unique run I am playing ever since... The 17th of May. It's taking an awful lot of my BG time XD
@bbear : I personally gave up because of 4 greater Wolfweres in Firkraag's dungeon, which happen to be regenerating, bugfully, 100 health per second XD Furthermore, I had a few other obligations with a unique run I am playing ever since... The 17th of May. It's taking an awful lot of my BG time XD
For battles that seem impossible, couldnt you just skip them? I mean sure it's not the heroic way, but you can always return at a higher level to fight them.
They *were* blocking the way to Firkraag, where's the fun in skipping that guy? :P
Trust me, my PC with Tenser Transformation and 3 hasted Mordenkeinen Swords couldn't take down one of those bugged Wolfweres, what are the odds that I could do it at a higher level? I guess Chain Contingency with 3 Abi Dalzims would do it, but oh well. It's one of those things of going without fixes, even though I am not entirely convinced the regeneration bug got fixed at all? (probably it was by the Fixpack)
Also tempted to try either a solo archer or solo stalker. That said leave some comments on things you'd like to see soloed (Not necessarily hard core but I'll keep track of my deaths) and add them. I think I might have to do a solo run since my current Elven Fighter/Mage kinda killed the same for me since I had to rush up to Coran and now I don't wanna play her cause I don't wanna go back and do all the side-quests.
Interesting choices. I bet any character class is doable, but some classes are easier than others. For ranger class, would you consider ranger/cleric as a possible candidate?
They *were* blocking the way to Firkraag, where's the fun in skipping that guy? :P me, my PC with Tenser Transformation and 3 hasted Mordenkeinen Swords couldn't take down one of those bugged Wolfweres, what are the odds that I could do it at a higher level? I guess Chain Contingency with 3 Abi Dalzims would do it, but oh well. It's one of those things of going without fixes, even though I am not entirely convinced the regeneration bug got fixed at all? (probably it was by the Fixpack)
If they are obviously bugged then I'd have no qualms in either Ctrl+Ying them or simply drawing them away from wherever they were blocking then stealthing past them.
@Bbear I'd prolly play a Dwarven Fighter/Cleric before I played a Cleric/Ranger. I dunno a Ranger who is unable to use swords or bows never really appealed to me.
Comments
Anyway, update from my run too. As mentioned, I went to complete the Unseeing eye quest (can't recall, did I mention that?)
At any rate, didn't encounter much trouble, aside from a Flesh to Stone trap set on the bridge till you hit the temple of Amanuator in the Lower Reaches. Finally though, I hit my goal - Tenser Transformation, the spell that will allow me to kill things like an actual fighter for once XD
Beholders and the Unseeing eye were no match for me, err, I mean, my shield of Balduran XD
Truth be told, I find the latter ridiculous - Attack melee, attempt power word : stun, attack melee, attempt power word : stun, ad infinitum. What's up with that?
Mordenkeinen Swords provided much comfort too - they are just immune to EVERYTHING anyway XD
Also, disappointed to not have met a random lich encounter in the Undead city close to the Unseeing Eye's Caves. Would have loved sparring match
So yeah, here's my inventory :
Here's my character :
And here's my character in full battle mode
Note that once my Melf Minute Meteors run out, the THAC0 goes to -2 and APR go to 5/2, but that's nothing dramatic. This character is really working out well.
Also, all Saving Throws are super close to 0 when I am in full battle mode
NEXT STOP, one of the Dragons! Or maybe the Shadow Thieves' guild quest... I dunno... which one is harder? XD /sarcasm
[Spoiler]Do you intend on doing Watcher's Keep while you still have access to the DUHM spell or not?[/Spoiler]
As for Draw Upon Holy Might - it will be a big big BIG loss, but not horrible. There are replacements, namely the Belts of Giant Strength, more specifically, the Frost Giant Strength belt from the Underdark. Sure, this will mean I won't be able to craft Crom Faeyr, but I won't be good with that weapon anyway, so it's not a big loss. Staff of the Magi with any other damaging staff in conjunction is one of the most lethal combos, if not THE most lethal combo in the game.
Sanctuary/Harm, at least, uses both spells as they were intended.
Is cheese a personal choice? - one person's cheddar is another's Gorgonzola.
By the way, I try to avoid cheese in my games unless I'm tired and want to finish a fight fast. But I'd use it without regret if I ever played a solo run...
I rolled up a new FMT to play around with on the side. Went Quarterstaff/Bow with her this time and dumped all her initial starting points into Stealth.
The way I figure it, I'm going to have to play most of the game from the shadow's early so the extra stealth will make up for the other points. Besides, with how fast you level solo, I should still have a decent enough trap and lock pick score by the time I really start to need them anyway.
As far as Sorcerer goes, its kinda hard to do currently with this thread cause we're doing it Vanilla, no mods. In order to be a sorc we'd have to add Tutu or Trilogy. That said I could definitely see a sorc doing it come BGEE.
@Dragonspear : I am not overly sure, but for the Nashkel mines traps you need a score of as low as 15 to detect and disable them. I might be wrong, but I believe I *did* disable them once with such a low find traps score.
Don't know about the lightning bolt in the Bandit camp, or the web traps in cloakwood though.
@Ligg : there are three terms that can be used in Baldur's Gate, regarding the way you play -
Cheating : use the console and the cheat keys to do whatever you want (only cheating if you're on a gaming run, not testing around)
Exploiting : Use the game engine against its rules to win battles, get more rewards, or stuff like that. (like fake-talking, etc...)
Cheese : Use weak tactics against powerful, but super super SUPER dumb enemies (in which case mislead fits properly. Cloudkill vs. Dragons also fits in well) .
I was basing that off what was said at the start of the thread. @Bynary_Fission wanted to do it without mods.
As far as the low trap score. I'll level my thief levels at least 3 times before Nashkel as a minimum. That would still allow for 75ish trap score (assuming I ignore pick locks). That's why I'm not as worried about gimping myself now. That said I think the max for a FMT is 6/6/7 for ToTSC, so basically I'm going to be going to be dumping points in pick locks and traps 10/10 after I get them evened up.
And keep in mind, as Dragonspear iterated there are no mods on this run, so any tactics mod you mention (like SCS) will not be present. I will admit, if I had something like that installed I'd be a little more willing to bend certain rules. :P
/suckstohavebugs
/long rant
But I've since made up my progress after a good 6-7 hours of nonstop playing.
-------------------------
Sailin' the High Seas
-------------------------
I've spent the better part of the day working my way back up to where I was. I've acquired much of the gear that I will keep until the end of the game - the Flail of Ages, the Ring of Gaxx, the Boots of Speed, and the Amulet of Power to name a few. I also have some other sweet stuff that will serve me for quite a while, but as you can see by the below picture I have acquired the second component of the Big Metal Unit - only the nickel panties (?) remain.
I have reached chapter 4, and in doing so have effectively stranded myself from completing any quests on the mainland until chapter 6. But I do not mind - chapters 4 and 5 are among the most fun and interesting of the game, in my opinion (I LOVE the romp through Spellhold). I haven't tended to my keep at all (not that I need to, I have more gold than I know what to do with). I've also left a few quests unfinished, such as the Thieves Guild, the Slaver Quest and the Cult of the Eyeless. I don't want to max out until at least the very tail end of SoA - otherwise it would sap some of my motivation to continue.
My character's stats are very impressive at this point - I have acquired numerous HLAs, I have access to my Cleric's Level 7 spells and my mage is also at the same point. My THAC0, which is normally pretty subpar, is actually developing far enough to where I can hit an enemy consistently as opposed to the useless swinging of weapons that generally occurred before. It's a shame I can't put three slots in Two Weapon fighting, because my THAC0 is somewhat unbalanced as a result, though at this point it's good either way. These are my current stats and items:
---------------------
Into the Heart of Darkness
---------------------
Making it through Spellhold was simple enough. But I can't get over just how *fun* it is. I don't know what it is about that level but I never tire of getting through it. All the puzzles are certainly interesting, even if I have done them many times over. I chose to opt out of the whorehouse quest, since I am keenly interested in getting into the Underdark, the next place of interest...and where my character current stands at the threshold of. I got a bit nervous facing Irenicus when he dispelled all of my buffs, so I went to the edge of the screen and cast a Deva to finish my dirty work - I already had him down to Badly wounded when this occurred.
I also chose to do the Sahuagin quest, if only for one thing: the Cloak of Mirroring. Resistant to all forms of magical damage, you say? On a no-death run, you say? Why not the Cloak of Mirroring? But enough referencing of a certain Decapodian ichthyoid. I reneged on my no-RP stance and did just a *bit* of semi-roleplaying: I massacred all of the Sahuagin despite it not being necessary. I'm just not in the mood for fish, I guess. I've acquired all the stuff in the area even though it hasn't replaced any of my gear, the previously mentioned cloak notwithstanding.
Aside from that, there isn't much else to report on. My character has some room to advance yet, though my XP is bumping up on 6 million. This is to be expected - I suspect that I will hit my 8 million cap by Chapter 7, or so I hope. There is no attached image of my inventory, since as I mentioned before little has changed, though I am VERY happy to have the Bag of Holding. No more having to shuffle my junk around and prioritize what loot I get: I can just take it all!
I plan on doing a variant of this challenge soon after I complete my bg2 low level challenge. The variant is that I can reload, but I will minimize and record the number of times my pc dies in the game. I hope this less restrictive rule can inspire others to take on this challenge. Play and share your journey in the BG saga!
That said, I'm willing to try a solo game with any character class. What I have rolled up right now are:
Fighter/Mage/Thief: Lelidrea CG Elf
Str: 18/81
Dex: 19
Con: 17
Int: 18
Wis: 10
Cha: 8 (Friends spell will probably be used a LOT)
Starting with Bows and Blunt Weapons here.
Bard: Jaeliste NG Half-Elf
Str: 10
Dex: 18
Con: 16
Int: 18
Wis: 10
Cha: 18
With starting proficiency in Missile Weapons (For Crossbows) and Blunt Weapons (For Quarterstaves). This one will become a Blade in BG2.
Paladin: Lady Arveene LG Human
Str: 18/87
Dex: 18
Con: 18
Int: 7
Wis: 13
Cha: 18
Starting proficiency in Blunt weapons (WARHAMMERS REPRESENT) and 1 pip in both axes and longswords. That way I can carry around throwing axes if I need to and also make sure I have the weapons I need to ToTSC monsters.
Also tempted to try either a solo archer or solo stalker. That said leave some comments on things you'd like to see soloed (Not necessarily hard core but I'll keep track of my deaths) and add them. I think I might have to do a solo run since my current Elven Fighter/Mage kinda killed the same for me since I had to rush up to Coran and now I don't wanna play her cause I don't wanna go back and do all the side-quests.
Furthermore, I had a few other obligations with a unique run I am playing ever since... The 17th of May. It's taking an awful lot of my BG time XD
Trust me, my PC with Tenser Transformation and 3 hasted Mordenkeinen Swords couldn't take down one of those bugged Wolfweres, what are the odds that I could do it at a higher level? I guess Chain Contingency with 3 Abi Dalzims would do it, but oh well. It's one of those things of going without fixes, even though I am not entirely convinced the regeneration bug got fixed at all? (probably it was by the Fixpack)