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  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 523
    Honest question, @rapsam2003 what does TSR have to do with anything? WoTC bought all of their IP before BG was released.

    There is a new TSR, but they certainly don't own D&D or The Forgotten Realms.

    Has something happened with D&D and TSR that I haven't heard about?
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    bleusteel said:

    Honest question, @rapsam2003 what does TSR have to do with anything? WoTC bought all of their IP before BG was released.

    Ooops, you're correct. I've been playing D&D too long, lol

    Either way, fact is...the decision was made. Players complaining about it doesn't do anything. Canon is canon.
  • LegendaryLegendary Member Posts: 53
    rapsam2003 said:

    bleusteel said:

    Honest question, @rapsam2003 what does TSR have to do with anything? WoTC bought all of their IP before BG was released.

    Ooops, you're correct. I've been playing D&D too long, lol

    Either way, fact is...the decision was made. Players complaining about it doesn't do anything. Canon is canon.
    Ed Greenwood has said several times he doesn't really care for the idea of a strict canon, especially considering D&D. This is exactly the kind of conversation he would probably call silly. The module Murder in Baldur's Gate is intentionally written so the conflicting elements of the books/games are not brought up so that people can enjoy them without this fuss; other than the character being a human named Abdel Adrian. Which would be easy to change within the module.

    The only reason the question of the BG novels canon is ever brought up is because they happen to be the worst written books in the D&D Mythos. If anything Forgotten Realms is fortunate to have very few other canon arguments or disputes. All the other novels are accepted without question because they're at least decent.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    @Legendary, I understand all that. But it's fairly clear that WotC brought the Dead Three back, and there's really no disputing that. Every other module, the PHB, the DMG, etc. assumes that Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul are back. The only thing is, Myrkul is more of a necromancer's god now, because Kelemvor is still a Greater Deity in 5E.
  • LegendaryLegendary Member Posts: 53
    rapsam2003 said:

    @Legendary, I understand all that. But it's fairly clear that WotC brought the Dead Three back, and there's really no disputing that. Every other module, the PHB, the DMG, etc. assumes that Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul are back. The only thing is, Myrkul is more of a necromancer's god now, because Kelemvor is still a Greater Deity in 5E.

    Oh yes, in that regard it's definitely canon to the setting. I suppose I should have read more of the conversation to be exact. Almost all the God's are back. A friend of mine aptly referred to 5e Faerun as "The Status Quo Edition"
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Legendary said:

    Oh yes, in that regard it's definitely canon to the setting. I suppose I should have read more of the conversation to be exact. Almost all the God's are back. A friend of mine aptly referred to 5e Faerun as "The Status Quo Edition"

    I think a better description of 5E is the "balanced edition". Really, for the 1st time since 2E PnP, balance has been a major consideration. In terms of lore, they scrapped most of the crazy/weird/dumb lore that 4E brought forth. 5E is a return to form in some ways, and that's an excellent thing.

  • LegendaryLegendary Member Posts: 53
    rapsam2003 said:

    Legendary said:

    Oh yes, in that regard it's definitely canon to the setting. I suppose I should have read more of the conversation to be exact. Almost all the God's are back. A friend of mine aptly referred to 5e Faerun as "The Status Quo Edition"

    I think a better description of 5E is the "balanced edition". Really, for the 1st time since 2E PnP, balance has been a major consideration. In terms of lore, they scrapped most of the crazy/weird/dumb lore that 4E brought forth. 5E is a return to form in some ways, and that's an excellent thing.

    For sure. 5E is my favorite edition and is currently the only one I run. 3.5 had a huge balance issue thanks to none of the supplement writers coordinating and 4e was just dumb. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say most "D&D" games we played we actually played in Pathfinder prior to 5e..

    But I've already made a bunch of 5e fanboy posts on these forums and I probably shouldn't keep dojng that.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    rapsam2003 said:

    Legendary said:

    Oh yes, in that regard it's definitely canon to the setting. I suppose I should have read more of the conversation to be exact. Almost all the God's are back. A friend of mine aptly referred to 5e Faerun as "The Status Quo Edition"

    I think a better description of 5E is the "balanced edition". Really, for the 1st time since 2E PnP, balance has been a major consideration. In terms of lore, they scrapped most of the crazy/weird/dumb lore that 4E brought forth. 5E is a return to form in some ways, and that's an excellent thing.

    Unless you are Azuth. Then its kind of like "what the heck guys! You brought back Bhaal but not me!"
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    elminster said:

    rapsam2003 said:

    Legendary said:

    Oh yes, in that regard it's definitely canon to the setting. I suppose I should have read more of the conversation to be exact. Almost all the God's are back. A friend of mine aptly referred to 5e Faerun as "The Status Quo Edition"

    I think a better description of 5E is the "balanced edition". Really, for the 1st time since 2E PnP, balance has been a major consideration. In terms of lore, they scrapped most of the crazy/weird/dumb lore that 4E brought forth. 5E is a return to form in some ways, and that's an excellent thing.

    Unless you are Azuth. Then its kind of like "what the heck guys! You brought back Bhaal but not me!"
    LOL, he's always been Mystra's b**** anyway. Now, he's just a dead one. :wink:
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    Mystra's dying is contagious it seems.
  • helmo1977helmo1977 Member Posts: 366
    deltago said:

    Video games are not considered canon. Books and novels however are.

    Yes, which is something that has always bothered me, because most videogames set in the FRs have far, far more audience than most or all the FR novels. It is like the football (soccer, for US people) second division having more importance than the first one when deciding about the rules of the game.

    I know in a videogame everyone makes its own finale, to some extent, but in most videogames, BG included, there are some decisions which can clearly be seen as "canon" (example: the "canon" party in BG videogame clearly includes Jaheira, Imoen and Minse, probably Viconia and Edwin also)
  • helmo1977helmo1977 Member Posts: 366
    rapsam2003 said:

    deltago said:

    Video games are not considered canon. Books and novels however are.

    For instance, anything that WotC creates, TSR has to bless it.
    UH? TSR went the way of the Dodo a long time ago. TSR cant bless a thing because it doesnt exist any longer (and it has been like that since the late 90s, iirc)

  • RodrianRodrian Member Posts: 426
    Ohh I hope yiss.. nothing is so entertaining as killing those filthy bastardies wit'a stick! :grimace:
  • justfeelinathomejustfeelinathome Member Posts: 353
    @helmo1977 There's a new TSR since 2011, while the old one was bought up by Wizards of the Coast in the 90s. Don't know which rights/intellectual properties the new company bought with the name, though. :neutral:
  • LegendaryLegendary Member Posts: 53
    helmo1977 said:

    deltago said:

    Video games are not considered canon. Books and novels however are.

    Yes, which is something that has always bothered me, because most videogames set in the FRs have far, far more audience than most or all the FR novels. It is like the football (soccer, for US people) second division having more importance than the first one when deciding about the rules of the game.

    I know in a videogame everyone makes its own finale, to some extent, but in most videogames, BG included, there are some decisions which can clearly be seen as "canon" (example: the "canon" party in BG videogame clearly includes Jaheira, Imoen and Minse, probably Viconia and Edwin also)
    Sort of
    WoTC is very deliberate about not declaring what is and isn't canon. People like the FR wiki and other sites, made by fans, declare the novels canon because they have no variance and because it's usually the references module writers use when releasing new core books.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    On the question "Where to next for Icewind Dale?"

  • brusbrus Member Posts: 944
    edited June 2016
    JuliusBorisov said:

    On the question "Where to next for Icewind Dale?"

    ...'to boldly go where no dev has gone before'.

  • brusbrus Member Posts: 944
    edited June 2016
    Who do you think would be most suited for narrative and quest designer job offering ?
  • TarlugnTarlugn Member Posts: 209
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=50L0LrVgkg4

    Something that crossed my mind after seeing the new area in Neera´s quest in BGEE was to suggest making Eye of The Beholder 2 - Legend of Darkmoon "EE" in the sense that it´d be available as a new area conveniently placed somewhere on a map of either BG:EE or 2nd. I recall that the gaming system was the same 2nd AD&D, all that´s needed is remaking the areas, plus what would be really cool would be remaking the old portraits in an artsy fashion. I´ve no idea what lvl of adventure EotB 2 was, but I battled dire wolves in the starting forest, and a duo of bad -ass clerics usually ended my quest - right after going inside the temple!
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    Its a Shame that only a few people knows about Chris Avellone. The videogame world needs more people Like him.
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,766
    JuliusBorisov said:

    Chris Avellone (if he's not involved already) ;

    Damn, that would be rad.
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    I just hope he doesn't go overboard with the preaching about moral relativism like he did in KOTOR 2.
  • DoubledimasDoubledimas Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,286
    I think avoiding the trappings of making a BG3 (in terms of story, not in terms of the kind of game but Trent already hinted that it would still be isometric, party-based D&D so that's covered) would be a wise thing for Beamdog to do. For their new flagship game I'd devise a new setting (as in new story + area where it will take place, within the overarching D&D-setting which you can completely own).

  • JustLeftJustLeft Member Posts: 76
    edited June 2016
    I have a question, was the Bhaalspawns origin part of the original material or was it introduced by the game?

    If it was part of the original material, is there any cool possible origin in Waterdeep or any part of the world that Beamdog might choose to expand on it?

    This is me assuming the next game will be a start of another saga and not a one shot story.
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