UK EU membership referendum
I searched, but found no OP for this.
I do think it is a very important event - and I care what gives! But I only wish the eligible will vote per their conscience.
I think I am so pro-EU, perso, because we have the best neighbours - naïve as it might be, I think we love our neighbours in the north.
Scandi free movement predated Schengen agreement, and I also think that Finland and Estonia have more weigh in the EU, than as two individual nations. Sadly, Hungary is throwing right now counter weight to what EU should ideally be... But I can say this positively, I hope, because it matters that I care.
UK out vote is plausible. It would be a seismic event, in benefit of the rest of the democracy starved EU citizens! Not least because UK has secured quite some privileges that no new member could secure...
Is OK.
I just wonder: why? Does UK not love its neighbours that much?
I do think it is a very important event - and I care what gives! But I only wish the eligible will vote per their conscience.
I think I am so pro-EU, perso, because we have the best neighbours - naïve as it might be, I think we love our neighbours in the north.
Scandi free movement predated Schengen agreement, and I also think that Finland and Estonia have more weigh in the EU, than as two individual nations. Sadly, Hungary is throwing right now counter weight to what EU should ideally be... But I can say this positively, I hope, because it matters that I care.
UK out vote is plausible. It would be a seismic event, in benefit of the rest of the democracy starved EU citizens! Not least because UK has secured quite some privileges that no new member could secure...
Is OK.
I just wonder: why? Does UK not love its neighbours that much?
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Comments
I might not agree, but would like to hear.
And given the seething cauldron of lies and insults being put out by both sides, I'm glad to get away from it.
Your argument about has that analogy.
I am an European Citizen, and care. And think that UK eligible voters, even more?
Edit: both my grand-fathers fought in the winter war. Neither lived to see EU, and I was not born early enough to know either. I think both would have loved warless Europe, but I did not say well enough. Hence, edit.
So I'm not going to try to tell anyone how they should vote. There are valid arguments on both sides, but both sides seem incabable of making them, prefering lies and insults. It makes me want to vote to leave the human race.
Yet you must fairly admit I give my non-UK opinion transparently, plus would invite everyone whom has a vote to exercise their right!
I am not against UK voting out. I am not saying UK should do one way, or another.
Only I would be sadly bemused if UK had no actual love of its neighbours. I easily love mine.
I still love Sweden, Estonia, Hungary, Norway, Denmark, and - yupee, Euro triumphant Iceland quite unconditionally.
Finnish love of those countries only makes us more neighbourly - with our sovereignty intact, as far as I can tell.
If you want to object to something the British Government does, you can contact your local MP, organise a petition, protest outside parliament, etc. And just occasionally you get listened to.
But if you want to protest against something the EU does, the whole organisation is so nebulous that no one would even know who to protest to.
The argument falls into three main areas:
Economic - would the UK be better off in the EU or out from an economic perspective?
Migration - can the UK really control borders into/out of the UK?
Sovereignty - why should another 'state' decide the laws in the UK?
There have been lies and misinformation on both sides however the UK is also being very short-sighted.
For example, one argument is that the EU is filled with unelected bureaucrats and is making all our laws... But then the UK is also 'ruled' by an unelected Monarch and her family, has an unelected 'House of Lords' which can review and amend all governmental bills, and gives up parts of sovereignty to many international organisations already (NATO, UN, and of course the EU etc). So really, that isn't an argument... but the BREXIT camp will use it as a reason we should leave.
For me, it's very simple, the history of Europe is as follows:
War
War
War
War
War
War
War
War
Arguments about bananas and kettles
I prefer arguments about bananas and kettles to genocide. So I have already voted REMAIN.
However, as long as UK has the "first past the post" electoral system, an absolute majority of 24% participating electorate is ... solid or deeply representation?
I do not idolize EU as such, because influential politicians can find a comfy parking lot with EU when their domestic career fails. Katainen, anyone?
Only it would pain me deeply if, say, Denmark cared no longer about us others.
IF EU fails, Finland will have Scandi neighbours and Estonia, and Hungary. I should like to think. This is about sense of belonging, in the EU or without.
May I ask: why do you not care what Ireland or France or Benelux would feel or think post UK EU disengagement?
I rather love yer agitprop, and I dare some would be jealous. But do you get me alike when I ask: love of neighbours, and alike?
And there are some things I won't post about. Brexit is one of them.
So I shall instead go and see if anyone has sat on an elephant!
To me as EU citzen, to my UK and EU peers, and imagine - financial markets, even!
Not to mention the imperialistic attempted EU expansion into Ukraine provoking another Cold War with Russia.
And I still don't know if anyone has sat on an elephant!
Of course, you only feel those benefits if you are an employer, rather than seeking employment.
I'm not aware of one future 'utopia' in fiction where all nation states haven't all banded together... Thus, I think the 'stronger together but celebrating differences' is key for humanity's future ...
Necessity of deflecting is a bit ... unsure. Conclusion: vote more, deflect less! ;-)
Being inside or outside an organisation has nothing to do with whether you like someone or not.
From a personal perspective I'd think the UK would be better off in the EU instead of out.
To be fair, I wholehartely agree that the EU can be a monolith and bureaucratic behemoth that is in dire need of reform. No doubt about that.
@O_Bruce: Absurd rules and regulations that the UK also votes in favour of . http://www.votewatch.eu/en/term8-council-votes-term8-united-kingdom.html#/#6/0/2009-07-07/2016-06-23. I did a quick count: 45 votes against, 48 abstained, 36 not voted from the UK on a total of 772 regulations and directives in the timespan 7.7.2009-3.12.2015. Which means 643 votes in favour of regulation (and some budget drafts as well). So in short, it's not like the UK tries to hold off 'absurd regulations' and the EU is imposing their will to the UK all the time.