Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

New Premium Module: Tyrants of the Moonsea! Read More
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

UK EU membership referendum

TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
I searched, but found no OP for this.

I do think it is a very important event - and I care what gives! But I only wish the eligible will vote per their conscience.

I think I am so pro-EU, perso, because we have the best neighbours - naïve as it might be, I think we love our neighbours in the north.

Scandi free movement predated Schengen agreement, and I also think that Finland and Estonia have more weigh in the EU, than as two individual nations. Sadly, Hungary is throwing right now counter weight to what EU should ideally be... But I can say this positively, I hope, because it matters that I care.

UK out vote is plausible. It would be a seismic event, in benefit of the rest of the democracy starved EU citizens! Not least because UK has secured quite some privileges that no new member could secure...

Is OK.

I just wonder: why? Does UK not love its neighbours that much?




lolien
«13456711

Comments

  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    EU distrustful - please do not feel put off to say, just because I am pro-EU!

    I might not agree, but would like to hear.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    I would think that given that most of the people on these boards are not from the UK, they wisely conider it none of thier business.

    And given the seething cauldron of lies and insults being put out by both sides, I'm glad to get away from it.

    sparkleav
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,473
    I, on the other hand, don't want Britain to be ruled by Germany. Angela Merkel owns the EU and it seems that her goal is to turn Europe into one, anonymous, bureaucratic super state where "one size (hers) fits all". My Father fought, and his comrades died, to prevent just that.

    sparkleavlolien
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    Fardragon said:

    I would think that given that most of the people on these boards are not from the UK, they wisely conider it none of thier business.

    And given the seething cauldron of lies and insults being put out by both sides, I'm glad to get away from it.

    Well, not all of us are from Canada, yet we buy from Beamdog?

    Your argument about has that analogy.

    I am an European Citizen, and care. And think that UK eligible voters, even more?

    semiticgodlolien
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    edited June 2016
    dunbar said:

    I, on the other hand, don't want Britain to be ruled by Germany. Angela Merkel owns the EU and it seems that her goal is to turn Europe into one, anonymous, bureaucratic super state where "one size (hers) fits all". My Father fought, and his comrades died, to prevent just that.

    Hum... your pop fighting and his comrades dying - that was against facism, or?


    Edit: both my grand-fathers fought in the winter war. Neither lived to see EU, and I was not born early enough to know either. I think both would have loved warless Europe, but I did not say well enough. Hence, edit.

    semiticgodlolien
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    TStael said:

    Fardragon said:

    I would think that given that most of the people on these boards are not from the UK, they wisely conider it none of thier business.

    And given the seething cauldron of lies and insults being put out by both sides, I'm glad to get away from it.

    Well, not all of us are from Canada, yet we buy from Beamdog?

    Your argument about has that analogy.

    I am an European Citizen, and care. And think that UK eligible voters, even more?
    I'm an eligable voter, and believe, in principle, in a united Europe. However, the current version of the EU is burgered up and appears incapable of reform.

    So I'm not going to try to tell anyone how they should vote. There are valid arguments on both sides, but both sides seem incabable of making them, prefering lies and insults. It makes me want to vote to leave the human race.

    TStaeldunbarsparkleav
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    Good call on the edit, @TStael. I generally agree with you on this issue, but it's perfectly valid to point out that much has been sacrificed to maintain British sovereignty.

    sparkleav
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    @Fardragon - I like yer style.

    Yet you must fairly admit I give my non-UK opinion transparently, plus would invite everyone whom has a vote to exercise their right!

    I am not against UK voting out. I am not saying UK should do one way, or another.

    Only I would be sadly bemused if UK had no actual love of its neighbours. I easily love mine.

  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    joluv said:

    Good call on the edit, @TStael. I generally agree with you on this issue, but it's perfectly valid to point out that much has been sacrificed to maintain British sovereignty.

    That was not the edit. I think I possibly was a dick.

    I still love Sweden, Estonia, Hungary, Norway, Denmark, and - yupee, Euro triumphant Iceland quite unconditionally.

    Finnish love of those countries only makes us more neighbourly - with our sovereignty intact, as far as I can tell.

    lolien
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861

    Nations (or nation-states) are so 1800s. Do away with them and unite mankind!

    U tease, surely? Europe is the show case of national states, and post EU, some domestic terrorism, or injustice - sure, but no WW3.

  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    You will vote Leave, and that is fine. I am glad!

    However, as long as UK has the "first past the post" electoral system, an absolute majority of 24% participating electorate is ... solid or deeply representation?

    I do not idolize EU as such, because influential politicians can find a comfy parking lot with EU when their domestic career fails. Katainen, anyone?

    Only it would pain me deeply if, say, Denmark cared no longer about us others.

    IF EU fails, Finland will have Scandi neighbours and Estonia, and Hungary. I should like to think. This is about sense of belonging, in the EU or without.


    May I ask: why do you not care what Ireland or France or Benelux would feel or think post UK EU disengagement?

  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,761
    Being in EU is not beneficial to British economy. That one thing. Second, Eu's absurd rules and regulations. I can't blame UK for wanting to get out of this mess. I just hope their example will encourage other nations to do the same. Let's leave Merkel with her mental disease alone.

    lolien
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    Mr2150 said:




    For me, it's very simple, the history of Europe is as follows:

    War
    War
    War
    War
    War
    War
    War
    War
    Arguments about bananas and kettles

    I prefer arguments about bananas and kettles to genocide. So I have already voted REMAIN.

    Lol @Mr2150

    I rather love yer agitprop, and I dare some would be jealous. But do you get me alike when I ask: love of neighbours, and alike?

  • BGLoverBGLover Member Posts: 549
    There are some things I post about. I ask the occasional question about the next poster, I pontificate on the output of Beamdog, I organise a poll about the destruction of Carthage, I bemoan this sort of thing, and I vehemently decry vitriol and bile and past attempts to discredit Siege of Dragonspear.

    And there are some things I won't post about. Brexit is one of them.

    So I shall instead go and see if anyone has sat on an elephant!

    FardragonsparkleavjackjackAnduin
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    Sorry @BGLover - UK EU referendum matters.

    To me as EU citzen, to my UK and EU peers, and imagine - financial markets, even!

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited June 2016
    Mr2150 said:




    For me, it's very simple, the history of Europe is as follows:

    War
    War
    War
    War
    War
    War
    War
    War
    Arguments about bananas and kettles

    That's funny, because in my lifetime I remember two wars against Iraq, one against Argentina, not to mention Civil War in Ireland and numerous other less well publicised military adventures. If we can't fight the French and Germans we just go find someone else to fight.

    Not to mention the imperialistic attempted EU expansion into Ukraine provoking another Cold War with Russia.

  • BGLoverBGLover Member Posts: 549
    TStael said:

    UK EU referendum matters

    Oh, I agree it matters. And I've already voted. And after saying I wouldn't post about it, I've now posted twice!

    And I still don't know if anyone has sat on an elephant!

    sparkleavjackjackAnduin
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    I don't love 'the French' but then 'the French' means nothing to me... I know French people who are lovely and I respect and care for them. But I also know British people like that. And Irish. And Germans. And Finnish... and ...


    I'm not aware of one future 'utopia' in fiction where all nation states haven't all banded together... Thus, I think the 'stronger together but celebrating differences' is key for humanity's future ...

    sparkleavjackjackAnduin
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    @BGLover - just that you voted is -- well done! :smile:

    Necessity of deflecting is a bit ... unsure. Conclusion: vote more, deflect less! ;-)

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Mr2150 said:

    I don't love 'the French' but then 'the French' means nothing to me... I know French people who are lovely and I respect and care for them. But I also know British people like that. And Irish. And Germans. And Finnish... and ...

    ...and lots of people from countries outside the EU.


    Being inside or outside an organisation has nothing to do with whether you like someone or not.

    Mr2150sparkleavbooinyoureyes
  • Yulaw9460Yulaw9460 Member Posts: 634
    edited November 2018
    Deleted.

    Post edited by Yulaw9460 on
    dunbarsparkleavPantalion
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    TStael said:

    @BGLover - just that you voted is -- well done! :smile:

    Necessity of deflecting is a bit ... unsure. Conclusion: vote more, deflect less! ;-)

    I've already voted at least three times.

    jackjack
  • DoubledimasDoubledimas Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,198
    edited June 2016
    From my academic perspective I find the idea of a country leaving the EU intriguing.
    From a personal perspective I'd think the UK would be better off in the EU instead of out.
    To be fair, I wholehartely agree that the EU can be a monolith and bureaucratic behemoth that is in dire need of reform. No doubt about that.

    @O_Bruce: Absurd rules and regulations that the UK also votes in favour of . http://www.votewatch.eu/en/term8-council-votes-term8-united-kingdom.html#/#6/0/2009-07-07/2016-06-23. I did a quick count: 45 votes against, 48 abstained, 36 not voted from the UK on a total of 772 regulations and directives in the timespan 7.7.2009-3.12.2015. Which means 643 votes in favour of regulation (and some budget drafts as well). So in short, it's not like the UK tries to hold off 'absurd regulations' and the EU is imposing their will to the UK all the time.

  • Yulaw9460Yulaw9460 Member Posts: 634
    edited November 2018
    Deleted.

    Post edited by Yulaw9460 on
    jackjack
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511



    @O_Bruce: Absurd rules and regulations that the UK also votes in favour of . http://www.votewatch.eu/en/term8-council-votes-term8-united-kingdom.html#/#6/0/2009-07-07/2016-06-23. I did a quick count: 45 votes against, 48 abstained, 36 not voted from the UK on a total of 772 regulations and directives in the timespan 7.7.2009-3.12.2015. Which means 643 votes in favour of regulation (and some budget drafts as well).

    I would challenge idea that "the UK" voted for any of those, given the lack of democratic accountability. People claiming to represent the UK voted. Many of those EU regulations are to restrict the sale of herbal remedies, forcing people to buy drugs from the big drug companies. Many of those EU politicians and bureaucrats receive money from big drug companies. Just saying...

    sparkleav
Sign In or Register to comment.