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the only reason charname wins

is because he has the reload power.

In terms of the bhaalspawn we meet, he's probably in the top 10 or so, on par roughly with Sarevok, Gromnir and Yaga-Shura, stronger than Illasera, Sendai and Imoen, but should be much weaker than Abazigal and Balthazar.

Think about it. There is nothing extraordinary about the protagonist except that he can turn into the Slayer, which is weak and frail compared to a half-decent fighter. He's only human or dwarven or what the heck ever the player chooses, and doesn't even get any fancy god like equipment the way Sarevok does.

It makes me seriously question the plot of this game as I play through ToB again. Abazigal is a dragon, so his power is obvious; he's strong enough that he's only twenty years old, and yet has a twenty year old son. That is some serious power(more like bad writing but meh) right there, not to mention being a dragon.

Balthazar is able to resist Time Stop. The only other character who can do that is Demogorgan, (and maybe the final boss, I forget) who is the prince of frigging demons; that a mere mortal, admittedly a demi-god but still only mortal, can ignore the most powerful spell in BG2, shows to his potential.

Now the protagonist; his powers are relatively minor in comparison. He gets some teensy abilities which are nice, but nothing nearly as powerful as Sarevok's armor and shield. His avatar of Bhaal is pathetic. You're better off as a straight fighter with a sword in each hand.

All of the protagonist's strength comes from sources of magic(stat tomes, machine of lum the mad, deck of many things, etc) which are far more powerful than he/she is, equipment which he/she wears, and the spells and abilities he or she uses. Without any of this fancy stuff, he's realistically quite weak. He can't even hurt the Big 5 without a magical sword, and if I recall right Sarevok is immune to non-magical weapons too in BG1.

The only thing the protagonist gets is the small benefits from Hell, which he only gets because Irenicus ****s up royal.

They tease and taunt us in cutscenes, showing us casting spells which ignore magic resistance and don't get a saving throw, obliterating Liches and Vampires and Mind Flayers, turning into the Slayer and ripping through Sarevok's massive HP and AC in three hits, promising power, but giving us nothing beyond what levels would provide.

Comments

  • trinittrinit Member Posts: 687
    you might have a point, but then again, you could say that about most of the other computer rpgs. well, welcome to ludo-narrative dissonance :P

    semiticgoddessmashedtaters
  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    You know we dont know what adventures Sarevok had before we met him to get his excellent stats and supernatural abilities either. I do agree that slayer form is awful

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,736
    SethDavis said:

    Actually, the only reason CHARNAME wins (usually) because they have discovered the power of friendship whilst everyone else surrounds themselves with incompetent mooks, and constantly split the party.

    Except when you're soloing.

    lolienGod
  • SethDavisSethDavis Member Posts: 1,812
    Aye, that's the usually part.

    lolien
  • PteranPteran Member Posts: 388
    SethDavis said:

    [...]because they have discovered the power of friendship[...]

    *cue MLP theme*

    I babysit my niece too often <_<

    SethDavislolien
  • magisenseimagisensei Member Posts: 316
    My Charname wins because, "her heart is pure and she cares a very big sword." o:)

    SethDavislolienmashedtatersSkandii
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    When you feel so mad, that you wanna roar...
    Take a deep breath and become the Slayer.

    (Thanks, Daniel Tiger!)

    lolienFinnTheHumanChidojuan
  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 1,091
    edited June 2016
    Honestly when I think about it, sometimes I think that the slayer form should have been made like a way to get great power at a great cost. Abusing it should have made you unable to get the good ending, and the way you used it could have been made the eventual loss of your conscience to the essence itself (with the rebirth of bhaal, in the ending?) or you being irremediably evil and driven by it

    A la christof from VTM: the masquerade redemption

    Post edited by Arthas on
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,724
    As @SethDavis says, it is CHARNAME ability to draw in other powerful people to his cause to aid him that sets him apart from other fanatics.

    Even if you are soloing you are meeting freaking Elminster on the second map giving them guidance. Why? Espcially when you have a Charisma of 3?

    Your hidden Bhaal power. You are a sun, whose gravitational force draws others to you. Who either have a choice, aid you and eclipse your life, or be snuffed out as they get too close in your blind quest to take your father's throne.

    mf2112
  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 1,091
    it's like you are pretending that charname is kotor's 2 exile

  • PohjanmaalainenPohjanmaalainen Member Posts: 35
    Power levels and power rankings are tools of a fool. CHARNAME wins because the course of events just happens with him ending at the top of the pile. Reasons for this are as numerous as playthroughs of the game and can be anything from some simple luck to a most brilliant tactical mind since Red Knight. This is known as a (interactive) narrative. CHARNAME's coin being at the edge can even be seen as a lampshade of this.

    I also think that other people, within the narrative, are just lazy and lose because they didn't clear that cave that contained Blade of Domogorgon Slaying +6 or somesuch. Power of being proactive. Even enemies who most probably have some adventuring experience end up sitting in their Fortress of Doom: Sarevok stopped level grinding when he turned his attention to politics. Perhaps CHARNAMES skills at leveling up also have something to do with pro_hisher bhaal...spawness?

    Thirdly, and I think most importantly, others might have some supernatural powers that CHARNAME never develops or gains otherwise. CHARNAME might also have only the stats he got allocated or rolled at start. All this is true, but the very nature of D&D is that of simpering fools, adventurers they are called, roaming around and killing small things before killing bigger things before killing dragons. Being a normal human with normal stats has never been against the logic of the Toril, realms or multiverse, it is commonplace and to be expected.

    mashedtaters
  • RelSundanRelSundan Member Posts: 918
    Well, your charname is smarter, giving he actually has a brain, and is not controlled through scripts.

    SethDavis
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    RelSundan said:

    Well, your charname is smarter, giving he actually has a brain, and is not controlled through scripts.

    Quite - most of the enemies just stand there, motionless, saying nothing, just waiting for CHARNAME to appear. You can sneak up on them and watch them for hours, I've done it, they never do anything. Their entire reason for being is waiting for CHARNAME to beat them.

    loliendeltagoFinnTheHuman
  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 2,243
    Sounds like every RPG...ever.

    Know of any others, send them my way.

  • matricematrice Member Posts: 86
    edited June 2016
    I must admit that i crave for a rpg in which the final battle would not be against a fucking cheating beast, but rather a solid legit group (with the leader of the group being in par or slightly weaker than charname) all of that accompagnied by a SWARM of underling.


    Just imagine if amelyssan (she's strong enough to be a whole group alone, isn't it ?), was using a ranged weapon till you reach her, but had 40 goblin (with magic weapon ofc and it could be something a bit stronger though -like human anti paladin lvl 13-, best would be with different magic resistance so we don't clean them all with one fireball)) with her at the start of the fight, and 4 goblin were to spawn each round.


    I also crave for a rpg that would force us at least once into a major battle were we are just "one" (up to six ^^) of the soldier. Just imagine how cool it would be (no time stop ofc) if we were to make a fight in which there's at least 80 characters lvl 20+ in each side.

    Post edited by matrice on
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,769
    MacHurto said:

    Many succesful no reload runs prove the contrary, actually ;-)

    Yes, those prove the power of metagame knowledge.

    semiticgoddessmf2112PK2748MacHurto
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,280
    But let's face another fact: BG and BG2 (specially the sequel) are way harder than a PnP game.
    Also, the purpose of being a protagonist is growing stronger (in power and personality) through the story.

    Finally, in PnP the DM would probably balance the game in a way that you become strategically smarter from game to game, instead of just spawning kobolds with fire arrows that kill a 1st level character on the spot.

  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    I'm not sure what pen and paper game you're talking about. I've never played a pen and paper easier than Baldur's Gate. I've never found massively valuable treasure in trees or rocks unguarded and I've never been part of such a cooperative and coordinated party in pen and paper. Six people always together and acting cooperatively? Balanced challenges? Easy loot? It's very different than the table where I'm sitting.!

    mf2112
  • JumboWheat01JumboWheat01 Member Posts: 1,028
    They're only acting cooperatively because you're controlling them, I'm guessing. Let the AI take the reigns, see just how uncooperative and down-right dumb your party members can be. At least you can always smack your friends upside their heads...

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