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Wedding rites in the Realms

I was thinking about how weddings in the different parts of the Forgotten Realms look like. I mean, there are so many different Gods and cultures, there have to be quite the number of different ways to celebrate matrimony.

Alright, I want to discuss both canon (= official stuff) and headcanon (= stuff fans made up) here. Just please make sure that you make abundandly clear which is which. Please go into detail if you can and feel free to share your P&P stories about that topic.

The only canon case that comes to mind right now, is the wedding between Wulfgar and Cattie-Brie. In the comics at least, it's portrayed as a huge banquet in the Battlehammer throne room. Also, Bruenor tries to convince Cattie to wear her mother's armor to the wedding, so I am assuming that Battlehammer dwarves wear armor to their weddings instead of festive gowns. Of course there are huge amounts of beer to be consumed at that celebration.

As for headcanons, if I recall correctly, in the Ajantis romance mod you could get a small, private ceremony at either a temple of Helm (either the big one in the temple district or the smaller one in the bridge district) or at a temple of your own deity. It involved the couple wearing flower crowns, I think. And you have a quest where you need to get wedding rings. (I played this mod a few years ago, I might be confusing stuff.)
Troodon80

Comments

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    All I can say is that I wouldn't expect weddings in a different world to be anything like weddings in real life cultures (for example, I wouldn't expect there to be a wedding ring).
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Having real-life wedding customs in Faerun makes perfect sense, considering the Forgotten Realms are supposed to be the long-forgotten history of Earth.
  • former_customerformer_customer Member Posts: 111

    Having real-life wedding customs in Faerun makes perfect sense, considering the Forgotten Realms are supposed to be the long-forgotten history of Earth.

    Hmm. Seems archaeologists should be finding +1 weapons lying around everywhere.
    semiticgoddessMagpieRandoms
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @former_customer: In many countries, archaeological artifacts like ancient weapons are legally government property. This can only mean that the government is hiding evidence of magic from us!
    gorgonzolaRavenslightMagpieRandoms
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,766
    "Real world" is so wishy washy here, because in the real world typical wedding rites can already change notably by just going one town over. Given, advancing globalization takes more and more of the specifications away, but especially because the Realms are a medieval world, there have to be (or at least should be) some notable regional and relegious differences.

    Alright, just as a real world example, I once went to a wedding in Belgium (about one hour drive from where I live). The wedding was helt in reverse order than any of the weddings I have ever heard of or been to, and the main ceremony was held under a tree (I had never heard or seen anything like that). Then there are of course the differences between catholic and evangelic weddings, if it's a cross-culture wedding things look especially different. And that's just telling from the few weddings I have been to.

    Then there are also those strange regional differences like the "Polterabend" which is the evening before the wedding where everyone smashes glass and ceramics in masses. And the ritual sawing of a log.
    And from what I've seen on TV, over in the US they have this ritual of something old, somthing new and something blue.

    Not to forget that FR is mostly inspired by fantasy novels, not by actual history.

    So yeah. Which region/ religion/ culture gets which "real world" wedding rites?
    What about non-humans? What about the cultures that don't perfectly mirror a real world culture?
    What about cross-culture weddings? What about all those cultures that are not based on Judaeo-Christian cultures?
    semiticgoddessTroodon80
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    How do we know that the ancient weapons we find aren't +1? The Identify spell is forgotten, no one knows enough lore, and there aren't any magical creatures around to test them on.
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    I would say that the wedding ring is traditionally used only by the people who live in places where the Christian religion is prevalent.
    Chinese, Hindu, Maori, and most of the other cultures have completely different rituals and ways to let the other people know if one person is married or free. In some cultures the ritual take 1 full week or more and is far more complicated then the Christian one. Not taking in account the fact that if you can find relevant differences in the wedding ritual inside a single religion and culture only traveling from Germany to Belgium, that are very close both geographically and ethnically the same applies to the other cultures and religions.

    Furthermore in our word we have only one intelligent and civilized specie, in the FR co-exist many species, each one with its own traditions.
    Buttercheesesemiticgoddess
  • former_customerformer_customer Member Posts: 111
    joluv said:

    How do we know that the ancient weapons we find aren't +1? The Identify spell is forgotten, no one knows enough lore, and there aren't any magical creatures around to test them on.

    By using them on each other. Those weapons still have damage bonuses. If untrained people without strength bonuses are using them, those damage bonuses should be pretty noticeable with just a few dozen strokes.
    gorgonzolajoluv
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    It's not something I've given much thought to.

    This piece, one of Ed Greenwood's answers (private notes) to a question regarding Sharess and Lliiran rituals on the Candlekeep forum, is part of what little there is. For whatever it's worth, I'd consider this canon without any official printed canon to the contrary:

    Sharess, as you might expect, doesn't mind WHO gets married (in other words, beings of the same gender, beings of different races, beings already married to others, beings very closely blood-related to each other - - all sorts of unions are okay, as well as the more traditional 'male and female of the same race' pairings). All that Sharess insists is that love and passion (demonstrated physically, through lovemaking) exist within the union, and that both partners of the union be 'unjealous' enough that both partners in the union will be free to flirt (includes at least kissing and caressing) with other beings not part of the union.

    The actual ritual is as follows:

    Only two beings can be wed at a time (although both can engage in later rituals, immediately after a wedding is concluded, if they desire to end up in a marriage bond of more than two individuals).

    Clergy of Sharess prepare each partner, in private, for the ceremony, bathing them, anointing them with oils, applying cosmetics to them, and even (if they desire and pay for such) augmenting their natural appearance with minor illusions. As the being about to be wed is being prepared, skilled clergy talk to them of their love for the being they are about to marry, encouraging them to describe the charms and graces of their partner-to-be, and bring them to a state of excitement.

    The beings about to be wed are clad only in open mesh cloaks (scraps of fishing nets are often used), and led out of doors (regardless of the weather, climate, or terrain, the wedding itself must be performed outdoors, usually in a temple garden) in some place where a feast can be held and the two partners can be led towards each other in a procession.

    Each partner-to-be (who are called "the Offered" by the clergy of Sharess) cradles a trained temple cat in their arms, and they walk with clergy of Sharess (almost always priestesses) who sing and chant soft, low-voiced songs to the goddess.

    At the 'right' time, while still out of sight of each other, the priestesses simultaneously command the partner they're with to kiss the cat passionately, and then let go of it.

    The cats usually kiss and lick the partner, and may or may not scratch them (this is to be borne stoically if they do), and then 'climbs down' the net-like garment, and runs off through the garden in search of the other partner-to-be. The trained cats typically run straight to where the other partner-to-be is, climb up their net-like garment, and deliver the kiss from their fellow Offered (again, licks and scratches must be accepted along with it). [There have been cases where cats have been prevented from completing this ritual, or even killed my mischance; the clergy who walk with the Offered are ready to spell-transform themselves into cat form and 'step in' to perform this vital part of the ritual, if necessary.]

    The moment both Offered have received the kiss, a spell cast by the presiding priestess takes effect, and the partners-to-be are momentarily mind-bonded, able to see through each other's eyes. (This 'seeing and feeling' some small part of the mind of the other sometimes causes them to fall right out of love with each other in a hurry.)

    By means of this seeing, they can usually swiftly find each other (despite the 'weird' feeling of seeing through the other's eyes), and (through love and rising passion, aided by Sharessan spells) rush together, to consummate the wedding on the spot. Yes, that means the happy couple physically engage in lovemaking, side by side with their two messenger-cats, and all of the attending Sharessan clergy (plus any guests). The temple has previously prepared a feast of mead, light wines, and what we would call 'finger food,' and hedonistic lovemaking continues for some time. The favoured time for a Sharessan wedding is just before dusk, so the orgy can continue throughout the night. If it's winter or storming (NOT viewed as a bad omen, by the way), the initial consummation is 'on the spot' and usually outdoors, sometimes in a bower heated by a ring of small fires, but the ongoing frolic moves indoors.

    During the fun, Sharessan clergy will insist that each Offered publicly disclose one of their personal faults to the other ("I snore loudly" or "My feet smell" or "I can't resist skirt-chasing every dark-haired Calishite I see"). This must be honest, though it can be frivolous, and the clergy forewarn and even coach the partners-to-be, beforehand (i.e. the request to disclose doesn't come as a surprise). All previous weddings and child-bearing unions (no matter how unofficial or illegal) either Offered has previously been involved in MUST be disclosed to the clergy and the other Offered, or the ritual ends right there.

    The ritual isn't actually complete until the orgy ends and both of the Offered have slept (usually together, and if not, always in the physical company of Sharessan clergy) and awakened again - - at which time both are solemnly (and seperately) asked (by Sharessan clergy) if they desire to be united to the being they Offered themselves to, and whose Offer they in turn enjoyed. In other words, they are given a last chance to back out. Sharessan clergy freely offer private counsel (advice for wedded life ahead, or how to deal with specific flaws or tendencies of the partner chosen) at this time, and will even , if one Offered desires it, bring the two Offered together to continue counselling with both, face to face. If both Offered accept the other, they are henceforth known as Accepted, their names are entered in temple rolls, and they are magically translocated (by teleport spells, usually, though portals can be used) to a place of their mutual choice, if they want to go somewhere (Yes, a honeymoon! Or an escape from smothering parents, creditors, or even the authorities!), and the clergy keep the chosen destination secret from everyone for at least a year (longer unless family of the Accepted plead for disclosure because they fear something bad has befallen the Accepted).

    It's customary for either the partners-to-be or their families to make donations to the hosting temple or shrine of Sharess (to cover the cost of the wedding feast), and in some cities priestesses quietly offer drugged wines (usually to induce wild passion) for those who pay extra (in other words, the father of the bride might try to stir the ardour of his long-uninterested wife by discreetly arranging with the clergy to 'add a little something' to her wine or to everyone's).

    Lliiran weddings, it won't surprise you to learn, are dancing affairs. Like the clergy of Sharess, the church of Lliira will join together beings of all races, genders, and blood relationships, but NOT if any of the parents of either Joyous (as the bride and groom to be are both called) objects, and not if either Joyous is already married to another, still-living being.

    The ritual unfolds thus: in a secluded bower or walled garden or inside a temple to Lliira (these three venues listed in descending order of desirability), all wedding participants gather. Anything that is, purports to be, or could reasonably be used as a weapon must not be brought to the gathering (and Joybringers will whisk such items away by magic if they are present, detecting them by means of spells if hidden). Participants are encouraged to wear the wildest costumes they want to, and join in the dancing.

    The music, musicians, and refreshments are as chosen by the wedding participants, and continue until the two Joyous want the actual wedding to take place (i.e. everyone they want to be there has arrived and everyone's warmed up). Then the Lliiran clergy cast certain spells, and the Twelve Dances begin. Some of the spells enable all the people present to fly (within a very limited spherical field), others generate the soaring music of the Dances, and still others put the movements of each dance into the minds of the participants, so people who've never been to a Joyfasting (Lliiran wedding) before know the moves without thinking, FEELING the moves of the unfolding dances (note that this means the maimed, infirm, and non-dancers can enjoy being swept along in the dances, up into the air and moving freely along with everyone else). Most of the music of these dances is heard inside the heads of the participants (and in places of danger or hostility, can be rendered silent to all outsiders by choice of the presiding clergy), but the swelling tunes are stirring and uplifting, each dance of the Twelve arousing and emotionally moving everyone involved. Most dancers will sing wordlessly along to the rising tunes, and by the time the Twelfth dance ends on a peak of arousal and high notes, everyone is whirling swiftly, well aloft, around the feet of the two Joyous, who are swept together in consummation of their union above everyone's heads, shedding their costumes as they go (it's considered a mark of the favour to touch - - not keep - - any part of a costume as it falls, whirled around and around among the dancers by the magic rather than plummeting to the ground). Everyone but the Joyous then sinks gently to back to the ground, and the two Joyous make love high in the air, 'kept up there' by the Lliiran clergy.

    The ritual ends with the presiding Joybringer asking the two Joyous if they're content to be Fasted together (married), and Lliiran magic brings their replies to the ears of all participants - - whereupon the two Joyous vanish in a burst of spectacular fireworks (magical illusions rather than actual fireworks), and the Joybringers put on a music and light show (again, except in hostile or dangerous surroundings) to entertain the wedding guests whilst the two Joyous are whisked magically away to a previously-selected spot (usually a bedchamber far from all the revelry, but sometimes an escape to a secret destination far across the Realms).

    It's customary for the presiding Joybringers to gift a potion to each of the Joyous (usually one of Cat's Grace and one of some sort of healing, but it can be anything not directly harmful or hostile to the imbiber). The potions will be labelled, not mysterious to the Joyous receiving them.
    ButtercheesegorgonzolaDJKajuru
  • FinnTheHumanFinnTheHuman Member Posts: 404
    iirc, the wedding ring and the ring finger comes from ancient egypt, where they had some kind of acupuncture/reflexology type basis for saying it was connected to the root of love.

    They stopped doing it recently in most weddings I've been to, for fear of killing birds, but growing up we would throw rice at the bride and groom as they left the chapel. This may be related to a 0 A.D era Roman custom of throwing walnuts at the Bride as she walked through the city.

    In Bengali culture, the relatives of the bride will often steal the shoes of the groom, and then ransom them back.

    In any case weddings seem to always be concerned with ritual associated with fertility and property rites. I would expect this in FR lore as well.
    Buttercheesegorgonzola
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    Also, I'd like to add that all d&d clerics are supposably able to perform mundane rituals such as marriages and funerals .
    gorgonzola
  • FinnTheHumanFinnTheHuman Member Posts: 404
    Sorry to keep bringing up irl marriage, but the customs of earth humans can be just as crazy as any FR lore. I wanted to mention dowry. In some cultures dowry is paid by the bride's family, in some the groom's. I believe the bride typically pays dowry in cultures with (history of) property rights and paternal based inheritance. In that case, the bride is part of a bargain for "purchasing" title. In the cultures which were more recently nomadic, the groom is "purchasing" a wife.
    gorgonzolaButtercheese
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    I suppose that you are right.
    In India the two main religions are the Hindu and the Muslim ones.
    The Hindu religion roots in ancient times of a not nomadic people. In the Hindu tradition dowry is paid by the bride's family.
    The Muslim religion was born in Araby and the tradition of the Arabic people is nomadic. In this case the groom's family pay.

    The consequence of this fact, related to the future of a woman, is interesting.
    In both cases she, with a "good" marriage, attains a higher social status, but the resources that she has to accomplish the thing are very different.
    In an Hindu environment coming from a wealthy family give the better chances of success.
    In a Muslim environment being a beautiful woman, or a woman interesting from other reasons related to her person and not to the money that her family has, becomes very important.

    Obviously the whole thing is more complicated as alliances between families and other factors are also relevant, a marriage can become a very "political" thing in traditions where the parents decide who you have to get married with.
    FinnTheHuman
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