I don't think we should compact the left-hand side in any way. It already feels like the inventory is losing its original purpose to the stat box that is taking over.
Which is also why I'd like to keep the dimensions of the big text box somewhat conservative. Being a big black blob on the right hand of the screen makes it a rather dominating presence aesthetically speaking.
I don't think we should compact the left-hand side in any way. It already feels like the inventory is losing its original purpose to the stat box that is taking over.
Which is also why I'd like to keep the dimensions of the big text box somewhat conservative. Being a big black blob on the right hand of the screen makes it a rather dominating presence aesthetically speaking.
In that case, as the icon boxes have evolved, should we revisit vertical icons with a narrower/taller scroll box?
I don't think we should compact the left-hand side in any way. It already feels like the inventory is losing its original purpose to the stat box that is taking over.
Which is also why I'd like to keep the dimensions of the big text box somewhat conservative. Being a big black blob on the right hand of the screen makes it a rather dominating presence aesthetically speaking.
In that case, as the icon boxes have evolved, should we revisit vertical icons with a narrower/taller scroll box?
That would be my recommendation. Reduce the chances that the player will have to scroll down in that text box and you make that box more useful to the player. Larger fonts will change that, obviously, but at the default size you want to limit the amount of maneuvering the player has to do to get the information they need.
(Some maneuvering is okay--it's okay to have to right-click an item to see its description, for instance, and you want to be able to scroll down longer text blocks--but if you can design the interface so that it happens less often, that's usually a win.)
I prefer the horizontal layout, because it looks less like a table to me. The icons being next to each other also evokes the vanilla layout so it has a familiar feel.
Here is an example of my concerns. Replacing the old iconic icons that had the numbers contained within them only works if careful attention is paid to how we had them drawn up in detail.
If you’re just replacing them with rectangular boxes with tiny icons included at the top, then it no longer feels the same at all. This latest mockup that I see here does not convey the same concept at all.
When we were originally working with this concept, the corners of the boxes were rounded the type/art style of what the icons should look like was shown, etc. If you eliminate all these small details then it doesn’t work for a replacement of the old iconic icons at all. Not for me.
It leaves everything up to the interpretation of whatever designer is chosen to work it up. What we “think” we have told them to do and what they “think” we are saying could be entirely different.
@Ravenslight Nobody stops us from adding the picture we all were working with (along with comments about it) as a reference point to "how I think it should look like" after the neutral layout and its description.
If you’re just replacing them with rectangular boxes with tiny icons included at the top, then it no longer feels the same at all. This latest mockup that I see here does not convey the same concept at all.
But it's not supposed to feel like anything. That's the point.... That 'feel' could mislead as much as it can help and by making it abstract it then becomes all about the description and any examples we give....
The description I'd suggest here is:
The thick black boxes represent graphics/icons in the graphic style of each game. In order, left to right:
Armor Class Hit Points THACO Damage Attacks Per Round
They are envisioned as looking something like :
Care should be taken as suggested icons 1 and 2 have 'crosses' in them and they must not convey the Christian cross but rather Armor Class and Hit Points, but rather the 'health cross' used by the games. THAC0 also needs a bit different target that doesn't evoke finding traps icon.
EDIT: Updated to Greyscale as per @Adul 's suggestion.
It seems like a safer bet to me to go back to the use of more traditional icons. Pecca’s idea was nice, but it is so dependent on placement and artwork that it could go very wrong. There was a very favorable response to Adul’s last mockup as well, before Pecca introduced his new concept.
I don't think we should compact the left-hand side in any way. It already feels like the inventory is losing its original purpose to the stat box that is taking over.
Which is also why I'd like to keep the dimensions of the big text box somewhat conservative. Being a big black blob on the right hand of the screen makes it a rather dominating presence aesthetically speaking.
In that case, as the icon boxes have evolved, should we revisit vertical icons with a narrower/taller scroll box?
That would be my recommendation. Reduce the chances that the player will have to scroll down in that text box and you make that box more useful to the player. Larger fonts will change that, obviously, but at the default size you want to limit the amount of maneuvering the player has to do to get the information they need.
(Some maneuvering is okay--it's okay to have to right-click an item to see its description, for instance, and you want to be able to scroll down longer text blocks--but if you can design the interface so that it happens less often, that's usually a win.)
I prefer the horizontal layout, because it looks less like a table to me. The icons being next to each other also evokes the vanilla layout so it has a familiar feel.
It seems like a safer bet to me to go back to the use of more traditional icons. Pecca’s idea was nice, but it is so dependent on placement and artwork that it could go very wrong. There was a very favorable response to Adul’s last mockup as well, before Pecca introduced his new concept.
I introduced the concept for two reasons. One having a place to display APR in an icon next to the four combat stats. Two, perhaps more important - The icons when big enough to account for larger fonts look bad. They are very distracting.
I understood your reasons, but it is open to interpretation without context. The icons are an important part of the iconic feel and function of Baldur’s Gate.
I'd say we can add as much context as we want. What I gathered from the blueprint discussion is that aside normal mockups we do, we should also add a simple blueprint with them.
Care should be taken as suggested icons 1 and 2 have 'crosses' in them and they must not convey the Christian cross but rather Armor Class and Hit Points.
yeah, they need tweaking for sure. The cross should look something like Cure Critical Wounds icon, so it doesn't invoke Christian cross, but rather Health cross used by the game. THAC0 also needs a bit different target that doesn't evoke finding traps icon.
Firstly - how important the ornamentation is to fill the gap in the top left corner (where quiver and arrow slots is slightly indented). From just viewing it like that I'd normally suggest to move the quiver and left-align it together with the Quick Weapons and Quick Items because it looks unbalanced. However, if the ornamentation fills the gap then it's not an issue. The problem is SODs ornamentation is a lot more subtle - so rather than suggesting a change I think there needs to be a caution to improve the ornamentation in the SOD graphics in that area.
Secondly - how thin the textbox will be in vertical alignments. I think we should discount them purely because there is not enough space to have a decent amount of horizontal text in foreign languages (you will literally fit one or two words on each line.
Thirdly - I think it was agreed that the icon text area should come up to around here:
Further, I'd suggest to make the large text box wider:
@Danathion I think @Mr2150 made good points. I'm almost done with my blueprint, which is based on my last mockup of Horizontal One Square, with Pecca's icons.
Another comment - it's much easier to explain suggestions and changes with a generic blueprint as the cutting/pasting is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much simpler
The bottom of the icon boxes lines up with the top row of equipment boxes. the scroll box is as tall as in the vertical layout but lines up with the right hand of the ground boxes, symmetrically under the icon boxes, so benefits from a bit more width without being too big.
the quiver boxes I wouldn't move because in terms of art I think it'd be easier to fill the edges in rather than a gap in the middle.
Fair point on the quiver boxes, as I said - the SOD ornamentation needs improving specifically in that top left area... and you are 100% right, moving them would make it harder.
Fair point on the quiver boxes, as I said - the SOD ornamentation needs improving specifically in that top left area... and you are 100% right, moving them would make it harder.
To compare...I'm second guessing my reasoning, it looks pretty good.
The quiver only looks out of place because there is no art to tie it back together, and the positions of the boxes are all wrong because they're generated from code. The boxes on the background art are placed differently.
Agree completely. That's why it was a thought... I discounted it... and I thought we should make a note for SODs UI specifically to improve that area's ornamentation.
For reference, here's the arty mockup I used as a base:
I tried to make sure every box is precisely where it is on the background art. I think the only difference in the layout is that I joined the two color buttons together.
Comments
Which is also why I'd like to keep the dimensions of the big text box somewhat conservative. Being a big black blob on the right hand of the screen makes it a rather dominating presence aesthetically speaking.
(Some maneuvering is okay--it's okay to have to right-click an item to see its description, for instance, and you want to be able to scroll down longer text blocks--but if you can design the interface so that it happens less often, that's usually a win.)
Some of my colours/alignments might be off but you should get the idea...????
If you’re just replacing them with rectangular boxes with tiny icons included at the top, then it no longer feels the same at all. This latest mockup that I see here does not convey the same concept at all.
When we were originally working with this concept, the corners of the boxes were rounded the type/art style of what the icons should look like was shown, etc. If you eliminate all these small details then it doesn’t work for a replacement of the old iconic icons at all. Not for me.
It leaves everything up to the interpretation of whatever designer is chosen to work it up. What we “think” we have told them to do and what they “think” we are saying could be entirely different.
The description I'd suggest here is:
The thick black boxes represent graphics/icons in the graphic style of each game. In order, left to right:
Armor Class
Hit Points
THACO
Damage
Attacks Per Round
They are envisioned as looking something like :
Care should be taken as suggested icons 1 and 2 have 'crosses' in them and they must not convey the Christian cross but rather Armor Class and Hit Points, but rather the 'health cross' used by the games. THAC0 also needs a bit different target that doesn't evoke finding traps icon.
EDIT: Updated to Greyscale as per @Adul 's suggestion.
(I'm currently trying to make a vertex blueprint. It's rather fussy work.)
Basically, the choice is 'one box' or 'big box'; I cant think how else to orient them? I agree with @Dee but I also agree with @Adul I'll play around a bit more with paint...
And @Adul's proposition is something like this?
Three comments from me:
Firstly - how important the ornamentation is to fill the gap in the top left corner (where quiver and arrow slots is slightly indented). From just viewing it like that I'd normally suggest to move the quiver and left-align it together with the Quick Weapons and Quick Items because it looks unbalanced. However, if the ornamentation fills the gap then it's not an issue. The problem is SODs ornamentation is a lot more subtle - so rather than suggesting a change I think there needs to be a caution to improve the ornamentation in the SOD graphics in that area.
Secondly - how thin the textbox will be in vertical alignments. I think we should discount them purely because there is not enough space to have a decent amount of horizontal text in foreign languages (you will literally fit one or two words on each line.
Thirdly - I think it was agreed that the icon text area should come up to around here:
Further, I'd suggest to make the large text box wider:
The bottom of the icon boxes lines up with the top row of equipment boxes. the scroll box is as tall as in the vertical layout but lines up with the right hand of the ground boxes, symmetrically under the icon boxes, so benefits from a bit more width without being too big.
the quiver boxes I wouldn't move because in terms of art I think it'd be easier to fill the edges in rather than a gap in the middle.
For reference, here's the arty mockup I used as a base:
I tried to make sure every box is precisely where it is on the background art. I think the only difference in the layout is that I joined the two color buttons together.