Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition has been released! Visit www.planescape.com to purchase and check for details. Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition Official Soundtrack is available.
Soundtracks for BG:EE, SoD, BG2:EE, IWD:EE are now available in the Beamdog store.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Making it Work: Inventory

DeeDee Member Posts: 10,434
edited August 2016 in UI Discussion and Workshop
The discussion here yielded some great constructive feedback about the Inventory screen. Let's talk about that.

The key features at play here:
  • The item comparison feature (which highlights character portraits if the selected item is good for them) causes lag on some older hardware configurations. While the lag may get addressed through patches, it would be nice to be able to turn off the item comparison feature so that the lag doesn't ruin the experience for the players it affects.
  • It's jarring for half of the screen to be visibly altered when an item is selected. The two views should be unified, if they're going to change at all.
Be aware that any mock-ups or designs posted in this thread are advisory only; nothing is promised or guaranteed for future implementation. All we're doing is discussing and honing ideas.
JuliusBorisovDoubledimasMr2150loliensparkleavAdulButtercheese
«13456734

Comments

  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 681
    It may be nice to have something similar to the quickloot in the inventory screen.
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    A better way to manage transferring items from your inventory to other members of your character too... clicking, dragging halfway across the screen, going back and repeating the process can be tiresome.
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,660
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,434

    Contextual menu??

    Can you explain what you mean?
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited August 2016
    That would be amazing @subtledoctor


    A menu @Dee that pops up, say on right-click, and gives context relevant options for that item, eg for a potion in an inventory slot it might have:

    Description
    Drink Potion
    Equip to > Quickslot
    Give to > Character Name 1, Character Name 2, Character Name 3 ...
    Select Qty > 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, all
    Drop
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,434
    So you're talking about getting rid of the existing right-click functionality to get a menu of options? That's interesting, but it adds a lot of cumbersome clicking for people who just want to read the description. (It's also a feature that doesn't exist anywhere else in the game, which means it would have to be designed and created whole-cloth.)
    Ravenslightsparkleav
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,660
    edited August 2016
    Ah, I was 98% joking. I don't think a right-click menu is a great idea in these games - for me, that's what killed the playability of PST.

    The 2% of me says something like: "yeah but in the inventory screen, and NOT in the main game screen, it might be okay."

    But that would introduce an inconsistency between different screens which would be undesirable.

    BUT that might be okay, because it would not be a core UI mechanism, but just an extra technique for power users. Like how right-click menus worked on Macs even when Apple was shipping a one-button mouse.

    Feh, now you got me turned all around... :confounded:
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited August 2016
    EDIT - Moved to UI Improvement Suggestions Thread
    Post edited by Mr2150 on
  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 681
    It may also be hard for tablet users.

    For easier inventory management, maybe look at what Pillars of Eternity does, you have one screen with the equipment of all members.


    poe.jpg 333.7K
    Mr2150Alonsocmk24
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    I think @Pecca had mocked up something similar...
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,493
    As I don’t know what you’re talking about here, for the most part, I’ll only comment on CONT+ anything. I never use it. Mostly I just wanted to post a screen of the 1.3 inventory for comparison.

    Dee
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,493
    Although a joint inventory could be an interesting mod, it is a huge departure from any previous version of Baldur’s Gate. I personally would not like it.
    joluv
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,434

    Although a joint inventory could be an interesting mod, it is a huge departure from any previous version of Baldur’s Gate. I personally would not like it.

    It would also require either switching the aspect ratio of the game to widescreen, or removing the combat stat boxes that a lot of players currently rely on.

    A party "Inventory Management" feature would need to be an entirely new screen. Which doesn't mean it's not worth exploring, but I would think of it in that context.
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited August 2016
    My suggestion for party inventory management (that was not thought through at the time) in Pecca's original thread was to use the existing shop interface with Character 1 on the left and Character 2 on the right - you could of course change which characters are on the left and right as needed.

    That way, it works based an existing solution and is familiar to everyone.
    Alonso
  • NatregNatreg Member Posts: 98
    I personally like the item comparison changing part of the inventory screen to show what it does. It actualyl makes you notice the differences. However, I think it should be an optional feature, and the lag should be corrected.

    I didn't like the implementation it had during beta but the current one, I think is good (with the exception of the lag).

    An interesting thing to add, would be a combined inventory window where you can see all items from all the party member backpacks. That way you can trade items quickly and see all the inventories at the same time.
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 911
    I don't think adding all six backpacks to the base inventory screen is a good way to go. It steers too far away from the current implementation, and it kind of makes it pointless which item is in which backpack, as you see all 6 backpacks at once, making it more like one huge backpack, thereby killing off a little bit of the individuality.
    Mr2150
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,220
    I'd like to see the ability to select multiple items and drag them en mass to a container or another party member.
    Mr2150Alonso
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited August 2016
    Here is my suggestion for an Inventory Management screen:



    - It uses the existing shop window interface so the concept and most of the coding already work - it's just a case of the engine allowing two different characters backpacks to be visible at the same time and an appropriate background.

    - It doesn't require any special key-presses or actions.

    - It doesn't take away or replace any functionality - it just adds the extra ability to swap multiple items between characters quickly.

    Please note - This isn't a discussion about the layout of the Shop Interface, colours or what have you as I think that's probably a different discussion. This is about how to have better cross-inventory management, swapping multiple items between characters etc. It's a concept discussion.



    To access it, you would double-click the backpack symbol in the standard inventory window. It would then load a screen like this:



    You can clearly see which character is selected for the left-hand inventory and which is selected for the right-hand inventory.

    Whichever backpack you were in when you opened this new inventory management screen would be the default left-hand inventory.

    To change characters you simply select the character you want on the left, and which you want on the right - and the appropriate inventories open below.


    Things I don't like
    - It has all the portraits for the characters shown twice - this could be tidied up but I believe it would be less intuitive for new users (EG have only one set of portraits but you left click and right-click to specify left and right inventories for example).
    DanathionAlonsocmk24
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,493
    As neat as some of these ideas would be to some people, I feel that they are ideas that should be implemented with mods. The base game inventory should not be radically different then it has been for all these years. It really needs to retain the iconic feel and look of a classic Baldur’s Gate game.

    As I see it, this new ability to mod in some of these very different ideas is the one positive thing to come out of all of this. But these very different ways of doing things really disrupt game play for everyone who just wants to come back to an “old friend” updated to be compatible with newer systems.
  • 00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 264
    Ages ago i made a Feature request regarding the inventory and made a post about it which some people seem to like the idea.

    [Feature Request] Add a 'Quick Fill' option to all inventory Bags & pouches.
    http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/22783

    Forum post:
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/52996/feature-request-add-a-quick-fill-option-to-all-inventory-bags-pouches
    00zim00 said:

    Not sure if its already been suggested and I just couldn't find it but i thought of an idea to help with inventory management and wanted to share.

    [Copied from Redmine]


    Description


    I would like to request for a button to be added to all Bags & pouches in game. That when pressed places all items that can be placed in it from that NPCs inventory into the Bag/Pouch.

    Example of Behavior

    1. Click on Dorn and press (I) for inventory.
    2. Note Dorn has 10 random gems in his inventory
    3. Right click gem back which is also in his inventory.
    4. Press "Quick Fill".
    5. All gems in Dorn's inventory are placed into the gem bag.

    Notes
    -If the bag is full or will become full it wont add all the items and will tell you with the generic bag full pop up.
    -Does the same for all types of bags, Scroll Case, Potion Bag, Bag of Holding, ect.
    -Doesn't add items from other characters inventory.
    -Doesn't remove items from your quick slots.
    -Ignores quest items.
    -Mock up image attached.




    http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/22783


    I spend so much time filling bags, clicking each scroll/gem/potion and arrows one by one to fill them and this would really cut down on inventory management time.

    Maybe this is something which could just be done with a mod but I just thought it seems so simple it feels like a change that might be great for the EE versions. Especially on tablets it would be very helpful im sure.

    Well, I say its simple to do but im no modder so maybe its harder then it seems. Either way curious on peoples opinions and thought I would put the idea out to you all. :)
    switcmk24
  • 00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 264
    edited August 2016
    Making this a separate post so it can be quoted or referenced easier,
    This is another feature request which I added aswell to do with the inventory.

    [Feature Request] Add toggle Helmet/Headgear graphic option on the Inventory UI or Main menu.
    http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/22840

    Description:

    Basically, like with the BG2 Tweak Pack mod. I would like the option to be able to toggle the graphic for a helmets on/off.

    -Its only a visual change so wont change the game at all.
    -As other has suggested and I agree with, adding a toggle button on the inventory screen or under customize so it can be changed on a per character bases would be the best change.
    -Failing being able to do the above, a menu option to just flat turn it off for all would be nice.

    There are many forum threads about this on your site, Eg:
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/19231/adding-an-option-to-hide-helmets

    So its definitely a popular feature :)



    sparkleav
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    As I see it, this new ability to mod in some of these very different ideas is the one positive thing to come out of all of this. But these very different ways of doing things really disrupt game play for everyone who just wants to come back to an “old friend” updated to be compatible with newer systems.


    I'm not sure I understand how proposing new features that don't impact the current gameplay at all, and would be completely optional to use, would disrupt your gameplay.

    They aren't taking away anything from your 'old friend' but rather teaching the friend something new - put it this way, just because your 'Old Friend' went back to school to learn Japanese doesn't mean you need to learn to speak Japanese to them from now on.
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited August 2016
    Anyway - to tackle the issue in the 2nd point of the OP:

    It's jarring for half of the screen to be visibly altered when an item is selected.


    Here's what currently happens:

    I am in the standard Inventory menu:




    I pick up an item and the screen in the top-right quadrant updates to show the impact of equipping that item:




    I agree that it is jarring. A large amount of space is used to show a small amount of additional information.

    However, I think it is an important function. Most modern UIs have some kind of 'at a glance' view like this. It will especially help new players who aren't familiar with terms like THACO and AC as the colours are clear and obvious guidance - the forums here are filled with people asking questions to try to understand it all better (and RTFM doesn't always cut it as these days people don't spend ages reading manuals).
    It also helps people on smaller screens who don't want to have read even smaller descriptions to read what an item does and understand the impact.


    So here's a proposal:





    - Power users and those very familiar with the game might not need the function so I think it should have a toggle in the settings menu. It should default to on as the assumption must be that on first install the user is a new user and it's power users that tend to customise the game more to their liking through the settings.

    - The area should be smaller and contained so it's not so jarring.

    - It should not wipe out / replace the 'current' situation.

    - It should be in the same colour as the tooltip background (indicating that it is information) - except for the key red/green to show the impact of equipping.

    That way the guidance is still given, it is toggle-able so people can turn it off if they don't like it or if they find it slows down the game, it directly helps new users, and it is consistent with modern UI concepts.
    Danathion
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 12,417

    As neat as some of these ideas would be to some people, I feel that they are ideas that should be implemented with mods. The base game inventory should not be radically different then it has been for all these years. It really needs to retain the iconic feel and look of a classic Baldur’s Gate game.


    One could make the same argument that Including THAC0, Weapon Damage, and the "stat breakdown boxes" on the inventory screen were also "huge departure[s] from any previous version of Baldur's Gate" when introduced with the EEs.

    Let the proposed change stand on its merits, not whether or not it adheres to an 18-year old interface. The EE inventory screen is *not* the "classic" one.

    @AstroBryGuy It's not easy to establish what is a radical change, and what is a small tweak. To me, showing THAC0, Weapon Damage and so on in the Inventory was something I've liked the most when first opened Inventory in the EE and in the same time I didn't think it was a huge change.

    But @Mr2150 's suggestion of an entirely new screen with inventory management here, of course, offers a much bigger change.
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited August 2016
    @JuliusBorisov - however it is important to recognise that is 'an optional use change' and doesn't detract from the current gameplay or way of doing things. It's just an extra function for people that want to use it. As far as I know it's not possible to do this currently as the interface currently only handles one inventory at a time...

    But Cross-Inventory management is clearly a desired function - several posts here have mentioned it in one form or another.

    I'm not saying my proposal is the right way to do it - that's what the discussion is all about - it's just that it's possible to provide enhanced functionality without forcing people to work in different ways.

  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,493
    @AstroBryGuy said:
    One could make the same argument that Including THAC0, Weapon Damage, and the "stat breakdown boxes" on the inventory screen were also "huge departure[s] from any previous version of Baldur's Gate" when introduced with the EEs.

    Let the proposed change stand on its merits, not whether or not it adheres to an 18-year old interface. The EE inventory screen is *not* the "classic" one.

    Yes, such an argument could be made. There actually are people who were not entirely happy with some of the changes that were made. I wasn’t, but I never said anything about them before because, up to this point, at least the general feel and play of the game hadn’t been destroyed for me.

    With the latest patches there were so many changes made that it no longer feels like a Baldur’s Gate game to me. Beyond that, parts of the UI, like the dialogue box and the artwork were changed to the point that I would find them frustrating and unappealing no matter what kind of game we were talking about.
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,493
    I do want to make one point clear. I have no objections to anything that is an option, with a toggle that can turn it on or off. The more options that the developers want to add the better.
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,493
    @00zim00

    That’s an interesting idea. I personally don't mind fiddling with inventory management so I probably wouldn't use it, but I have seen posts made by others who don’t like it. As long as the only change it makes in game play is to add an extra “quick fill” button to the options after you right click the bag, it wouldn't bother me and I can see how many others might really like it.

    I also don’t use the option to turn off helmets from the tweak pack, but a toggle option for people who want to turn them off sounds like a great idea to me.
    sparkleav
  • NatregNatreg Member Posts: 98
    Thels said:

    I don't think adding all six backpacks to the base inventory screen is a good way to go. It steers too far away from the current implementation, and it kind of makes it pointless which item is in which backpack, as you see all 6 backpacks at once, making it more like one huge backpack, thereby killing off a little bit of the individuality.

    I wasn't thinking about changing anything on the base inventory screen. The "six backpack" should be an additional screen that may be accessed from the main inventory screen and is totally optional to use since the old way of trading items would still work.




    @Mr2150 I like your version of the inventory. It still makes the info clear.
«13456734
Sign In or Register to comment.