@Adul I've actually had the most issues reading the font sizes in BG2EE v. 2+ (brown, I guess?). I don't find version 1.3 nearly as hard to read, although the numbers do get smaller. I'm just hoping that any changes/fixes that get applied to BG1/SOD will also be incorporated into BG2.
Are you saying that in the version of your latest screenshot, the font inside the icons worked well, @AstroBryGuy ?
I’m not sure of the terminology. When you say iconography, is that another name for the shield icon, etc?
The SoD font is more readable at smaller sizes than the BGEE v1.3 font. IMHO, the Sherwood font has legibility issues (e.g., 2 and 9, a and u) that become more pronounced at small font sizes. However, I am still of the opinion that no font reduction should be needed to squeeze the text into the icon. The icons used in the stat displays (i.e., the iconography) should be large enough to accommodate the text rendered at full font size. It's also unacceptable to just have the text run over the icons because that will affect readability. That means thinking about the maximum size of the text and then designing an icon around that, not designing the icon first and then cramming the text in (as appears to have been done in BGEE).
The icons should also be labeled or more clearly indicate what stat is being represented. Circles and squares (with or without spikes), are fine - if they are labeled. If they aren't labeled, the icons should be meaningful.
If they end up going with the "one square" layout, then larger icons would mean less horizontal space for the text field, which is already rather lacking in its horizontal dimension.
Not saying it can't or shouldn't be done, just that there would be a trade off.
Your suggesting that the icons be made larger to accommodate larger fonts makes sense to me. Is there a reason that couldn’t be done?
It could be done. I did a mockup before, but I had to sacrifice the text boxes to make it fit (excuse my crude art skills - I imagine much better icons than I can draw). The text boxes would become tooltips/pop-ups.
Another idea would be to just put AC and HP at the top of the box in icons (the only two shown on the original BG1/BG2 inventory screens), then present the rest of the information in a scrollable box below that.
- More ornamentation - Bigger Icons with proper text (approx. 20% larger) - A more 'classic' feel with just the headlines - takes you back to 1.3 and earlier as there is no 'extra text' - Detail for those that want it - requires one click to get there - A preset option in Settings to choose your default screen
Hopefully, that will be a lot of positive things for everyone.
I'm not a graphics artist - I literally cut and paste lots of stuff in MS Paint so please remember that.
I'm not saying that these are the icons or the exact placement to use - we can decide a preference or 'style' that we feel is right, and give guidance to the art guys. I'm not saying this is the ornamentation to use - but there is space for some ornamentation (again, a job for the art guys to make it feel right). I've tried to follow a similar scheme/layout to Pecca for the detail section. I'd also propose that the Graphics menu should have a preset options so you can decide which is your default screen - Headlines or Detail.
Headline Screen...
Clicking anywhere in the green area changes the screen...
...to this - the Detail Screen:
Clicking the return button takes you back to the first screen - the headlines:
I'd like both the stat numbers and the stat breakdowns to stay and to be visible at the same time. Dee's One Square or Big Box layouts are what I'd be most happy with, if the current layout (Four Square) has to be changed.
@AstroBryGuy - I only staggered them because even at 20% bigger there is just not enough space within the current graphics. Maybe a 2x2 grid would work better?
@Adul - I agree with you however I think there is a trade off - bigger icons = less space for text and ornamentation.
I'd like both the stat numbers and the stat breakdowns to stay and to be visible at the same time. Dee's One Square or Big Box layouts are what I'd be most happy with, if the current layout (Four Square) has to be changed.
I don't think @Dee's mockups correctly take into account how big the icons need to be to display the text at full size. One Square/Big Box are going to have the current screen's reduced font problems. Dee proposed bigger fonts/icons, labels, *and* a fifth stat (APR). I just don't see that working. I certainly can't get it to when playing with a mockup.
@Mr2150: That would require a lot of scrolling. Having such limited height for one category is sorta ok. For all of them combined it's a major nuisance.
I would like the large numbers and the textbox be on screen at the same time as well.
Also, what's the panel left of the ground panel for?
Regardless of it being in the existing UI or not, is that space not used for anything? If so, wouldn't it make sense to make the Ground box horizontal, so it's flatter, leaving more room for the panel?
@Mr2150 Thanks for the mockup! To me the stat breakdown area feels very small there, I think there should be enough space in the text box to fit at least half of a reasonably detailed stat breakdown summary.
I'm OK with dropping the APR icon and keeping the current font sizes and icon sizes (as of v2.3), those look fairly functional to me. So with four icons and the large text field, the layout could essentially stay the same and there could be enough space for the breakdowns to be mostly visible.
And with only four icons, I think there would be enough vertical space to label the icons, if that's needed.
@Ravenslight - Thels suggested that so the latest version - which is a very bad hack job - shows what it might look like as a 4x2 horizontal. The icons need to be that big (they are only 20% larger than normal) to accommodate the text properly. See the BG2EE v2.3 screenshot where the HP is tiny and unreadable.
@Adul - With the change suggested by @Thels we have some more room now.
I have to say I really like @AstroBryGuy 's fist icons - if they could be made to feel 'Baldurs Gate-y' they would be perfect ... For me, that really represents MAIN HAND / OFF HAND more than a square box with spikes which looks more like a torture implement.
Yeah, but to have separate main-hand THAC0, off-hand THAC0, main-hand damage, and off-hand damage, AND to retain AC and HP, you need 6 icons. That's a lot of space.
I’m liking that better @Mr2150, but why not use the full width? Is there something blocking extending both sides of the box out?
I simply tried to add some more ornamentation on each side. By losing that, then yes, it would add horizontal space which wouldn't show more text but would allow up to 2 more icons in a 3x2 matrix (3 across, 2 down).
If you could have the full space, then move the two top icons together just a little, then move the two bottom icons both out to the sides slightly and up slightly, maybe they would take up a little less of the horizontal space. Also because they need to be so large, it might be more pleasing to the eye, I’m not sure.
Oh I see what you were doing. That would make a difference and could be nice, depending on artwork. Just seeing your squares outlining the art areas begins to pull it together for me.
Comments
I’m not sure of the terminology. When you say iconography, is that another name for the shield icon, etc?
The icons should also be labeled or more clearly indicate what stat is being represented. Circles and squares (with or without spikes), are fine - if they are labeled. If they aren't labeled, the icons should be meaningful.
Your suggesting that the icons be made larger to accommodate larger fonts makes sense to me. Is there a reason that couldn’t be done?
Not saying it can't or shouldn't be done, just that there would be a trade off.
Another idea would be to just put AC and HP at the top of the box in icons (the only two shown on the original BG1/BG2 inventory screens), then present the rest of the information in a scrollable box below that.
- More ornamentation
- Bigger Icons with proper text (approx. 20% larger)
- A more 'classic' feel with just the headlines - takes you back to 1.3 and earlier as there is no 'extra text'
- Detail for those that want it - requires one click to get there
- A preset option in Settings to choose your default screen
Hopefully, that will be a lot of positive things for everyone.
I'm not a graphics artist - I literally cut and paste lots of stuff in MS Paint so please remember that.
I'm not saying that these are the icons or the exact placement to use - we can decide a preference or 'style' that we feel is right, and give guidance to the art guys.
I'm not saying this is the ornamentation to use - but there is space for some ornamentation (again, a job for the art guys to make it feel right).
I've tried to follow a similar scheme/layout to Pecca for the detail section.
I'd also propose that the Graphics menu should have a preset options so you can decide which is your default screen - Headlines or Detail.
Headline Screen...
Clicking anywhere in the green area changes the screen...
...to this - the Detail Screen:
Clicking the return button takes you back to the first screen - the headlines:
Could you just use the full width and have the icons 2x2?
@Adul - I agree with you however I think there is a trade off - bigger icons = less space for text and ornamentation.
I would like the large numbers and the textbox be on screen at the same time as well.
Also, what's the panel left of the ground panel for?
Existing UI:
THe result is that would 'buy' you about 4 or 5 more lines as you could make the top right box larger... I'll knock that up...
I would prefer to keep things on one page as in @Dee ‘s one square proposal.
Hmm... Are you thinking the ground box would lay down horizontally so that there would be more room for the scrollbar @Mr2150 ?
Also, would the icons really need to be quite that big?
What if the scrollbar were moved all the way to the top, the icons placed underneath it and the ground box laid horizontally?
I'm OK with dropping the APR icon and keeping the current font sizes and icon sizes (as of v2.3), those look fairly functional to me. So with four icons and the large text field, the layout could essentially stay the same and there could be enough space for the breakdowns to be mostly visible.
And with only four icons, I think there would be enough vertical space to label the icons, if that's needed.
@Adul - the screenshot I showed for BG2EE was v2.3 - you can see that the text for HP is barely legible.
@Adul - With the change suggested by @Thels we have some more room now.
Also, the more horizontal positioning of the icons has a nostalgic BG feel to it, since they used to be horizontally arranged in the vanilla games.
What if the scrollbar were moved all the way to the top, the icons placed underneath it and the ground box laid horizontally?
Sorry @Ravenslight - I missed this - let me knock it up quickly...
EDIT - similar to the other one just reversed. I added one separator to prevent the scrollbar falling into the icons.
The green boxes are the added ornamentation.
Here's what it looks like without the ornamentation and an extra two boxes and I used red circles because I don't have two graphics to go there