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Making it Work: Inventory

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  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 2,002
    I like it!

    Just a note, the stats on the left go from top to bottom in this order:

    AC -> HP -> THAC0 (main -> off) -> Damage (main -> off) -> APR

    So in this case I think it would make sense for the breakdowns to also follow this order:

    AC -> HP -> THAC0 (main) -> THAC0 (off) -> Damage (main) -> Damage (off) -> APR (?)
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited August 2016
    That's getting there @Dee - the only thing I don't like is the slight misalignment that is caused when there is more text on the right hand large text box with the bigger headings, when compared to the icon boxes. I appreciate your design has sample data but it may cause some confusion as the rows in columns 1 and 2 are the same order but not aligned between the two columns (because the text length can vary).

    Also the text size is going to be very difficult to manage as there is an extra row in the 1st column when compared to current.

    Moving the icons to the top but keeping the design of the icons as you have them now fixes those issues, for me. You could have them arranged:

    Armor Class / (THACO Main / Off)
    HP / (Damage Main / Off) / APR
    BIG BOX
    JuliusBorisov
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,609
    Another thing that I like about it is with the group headings that you have given it, as well as the single scroll bar, it ties in with Pecca’s current mock up of the character screen.

    I still have a question about the color picker button. Is it necessary to have that in the inventory? Isn't it also available under customize?
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    I like the one square mock-up.
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,609
    I would much prefer to keep the icons where @Dee has them, if possible @Mr2150 .
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447

    Another thing that I like about it is with the group headings that you have given it, as well as the single scroll bar, it ties in with Pecca’s current mock up of the character screen.

    I still have a question about the color picker button. Is it necessary to have that in the inventory? Isn't it also available under customize?

    It is also in the Customize menu, but that button's a bit of a fixture of the Inventory screen, and personally I use it a lot; it's more convenient than going into the Customize menu, since I'm already looking at the paper doll when I'm on the Inventory screen.

    I'm afraid that's all I'll be able to do on these mock-ups; other work is pulling me away. But hopefully this helps get the ball rolling on discussing these suggestions and thinking outside the box for solutions.
    DanathionAdulJuliusBorisov
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    Here's what I meant @Dee - essentially the same as yours but then there will be no misalignment due to the varying text lists in the 2nd column.




  • RatatoskrRatatoskr Member Posts: 711
    I definitely like the One Box version the best so far, with a slight preference for Dee's over Mr2150's. I think Dee's makes the information a bit clearer at first glance.

    Although, honestly, I think as long as we have spaces that can actually hold my hit points I'll be happy. I mostly play the game windowed and on my laptop I pretty much can't read those numbers at all once they're above 100 and now that hit points aren't on the default character sheet either, I rarely have any idea of my exact hit points without having to search it out.

    Personally, I'd keep the color button because I change those pretty often and I like not having to click as much to get there, though I think it'd be better if it showed the main color as other people have suggested.
    ThacoBell
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,437

    I definitely like the One Box version the best so far, with a slight preference for Dee's over Mr2150's. I think Dee's makes the information a bit clearer at first glance.

    Although, honestly, I think as long as we have spaces that can actually hold my hit points I'll be happy. I mostly play the game windowed and on my laptop I pretty much can't read those numbers at all once they're above 100 and now that hit points aren't on the default character sheet either, I rarely have any idea of my exact hit points without having to search it out.

    I think that's going to be a problem with @Dee's "One Box". It *adds* a 5th item to the left side (Attacks Per Round) and adds text labels too. I don't see how you add all that AND make the icons bigger to accommodate larger text.
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,416
    Dee said:

    @Adul that's an interesting idea. And I think I may have found a possible middle-ground solution for the rest of it (sort of). Here it is:



    So this is basically Four Square, smashed together with Big Box. I call it One Square.

    What it does is group the stats on the left side of the box like in Four Square, but with an added box for Attacks Per Round. Then the big text box is one big scrolling container, grouped by headings. Each heading can be collapsed or expanded as needed, and you can click on a stat to collapse everything but that stat's information.

    Assuming Item Comparison is an option you can turn on from the gameplay settings, that's all you need to know. If you turn on Item Comparison, though, it works a little differently: the text box then quickly itemizes the stats that change, like so:


    I like this one, but like Adul, I'd keep the THAC0s and the Damages together, so Offhand THAC0 above Mainhand Damage.

    I'm not as fond of Mr2150's suggestion, as it makes the text window considerably lower, meaning there's a lot more scrolling going on.

    I definitely like the One Box version the best so far, with a slight preference for Dee's over Mr2150's. I think Dee's makes the information a bit clearer at first glance.

    Although, honestly, I think as long as we have spaces that can actually hold my hit points I'll be happy. I mostly play the game windowed and on my laptop I pretty much can't read those numbers at all once they're above 100 and now that hit points aren't on the default character sheet either, I rarely have any idea of my exact hit points without having to search it out.

    I think that's going to be a problem with @Dee's "One Box". It *adds* a 5th item to the left side (Attacks Per Round) and adds text labels too. I don't see how you add all that AND make the icons bigger to accommodate larger text.
    I don't think adding a 5th element itself is a problem, as there is more available height than width. You could make the icons slightly larger without taking away from the text panel, but I think that for this to work, the HP and Damage icons need to be replaced by other icons that allow the text to use most of the width of the icon.

    For example, if you'd use a heart icon for the health, you have to make sure that the text can fit the widest part of the icon, without the bit sticking in at the top infringing on the text.
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    But it's not just a case of adding a 5th icon... You need to add 5 labels for those icons and reasonable gaps between all these elements. The combination of elements is too much for the height available and that's before you make them slightly larger to accommodate the text properly.
  • RatatoskrRatatoskr Member Posts: 711
    I always figured HP was pretty self-explanatory and didn't necessarily need a label. As for icons, at this point I'd take a plain outline if I could just read the HP inside. Didn't some version of the game just have it in a circle?
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    The easiest thing would be to just drop the labels - and that's consistent with earlier versions of the games. However, the prerequisite then needs to be that the icons reflect the values (eg use a heart for HP).

    How do you represent APR as an icon? Not a question for us really - but a challenge none-the-less.
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,609
    I think dropping the labels and having a tool tip scroll appear when you hover over the icon, as was done in ver. 1.3, would work well.
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    To solve the problem of scaling fonts inside of oddly shaped text boxes, how about moving the icon shapes to the background of square or rectangular boxes.

    Like this:


    Only done with some artistic talent.
    box.jpg 16.4K
    Mr2150Danathion
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @Ravenslight The problem with relying on tooltips, is that people playing on an ipad or phone won't be able to utilize them.
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,609
    edited August 2016

    @Ravenslight The problem with relying on tooltips, is that people playing on an ipad or phone won't be able to utilize them.

    Well that’s a problem then. I certainly don’t want to keep loosing these things that have been a part of the PC version for all these years. I would hope that they would be able to make whatever specific adjustments might be needed for the different versions of the game.

    The latest patch on the PC does use tool tips. What does the ipad use in these cases now?
    dunbar
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,609
    A square icon doesn’t feel at all like a shaped one. The other problem I see with that is that if the square had a meaningful graphic, wouldn’t that make the numbers hard to see?
    dunbar
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,437
    The shapes, aside from AC's shield, are meaningless. What does a spiked circle have to do with health? A spiked box with weapon accuracy? All they do is force the numbers inside them to be undersized in order to fit. They are aesthetics over function.
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited August 2016
    I agree the shapes themselves are meaningless - how will I find a shape that represents THACO realistically ? I won't....
    However, this is an instance where I'd argue that the 'feel' of the game is as important as the 'look' of the game and the 'feel' of the game for some people is enhanced and feels more traditional if we have the shapes.



    So... If we lost the labels we could have the shapes but have them do something like this:

    WARNING! Very bad MS PAINT while I'm still drinking the first coffee of the day picture




    The colours and shapes are just to demonstrate what I mean - they aren't final - just the concept of what should happen is the important takeaway.


    The first image is my attempt at making a tooltip appear when the mouse hovers over, the second diagram shows what happens if you tap the icon - it temporarily transforms and the icon is gone... but it only lasts for about 5 to 7 seconds - it transforms into the label and score and then 5-7 seconds later it immediately reverts to an icon and score.
  • 00zim0000zim00 Member Posts: 267
    So whats the direction this is going atm? Im 60+ posts behind and feel kinda lost xD
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    @00zim00

    Keep reading :) it's an interesting debate... the journey is more important than the destination, and all that
    00zim00JuliusBorisov
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 2,002
    The consensus seems to be that equipment comparison functions should be made optional to use, and that the stat breakdowns should not be in separate scrolling text boxes.

    Other than those, it's only brainstorming so far.
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,609
    @AstroBryGuy said:
    They are aesthetics over function.

    Aesthetics are important. Far to little attention has been given to their importance with the current patches. So much so that SoD feels like it was made by a modder who really likes data base layouts and the colors red and black.

    Great for those who like such things, but not in keeping with the iconic feel of the original games.
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    Whilst your opinion is valid @Ravenslight - it is not shared by everyone - and you being rude about the people you want to make changes to the game (Beamdog) is probably not the best way to get those changes.
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,609
    What are you talking about? The last thing I was trying to do was be rude. I am not the only person who feels this way about the game. Again, I acknowledged that some people like it, but many don’t like it one bit.

    Jumping down anyone's throat who doesn’t like it and tries to explain why feels pretty darn rude to me @Mr2150 .
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    edited August 2016
    That's not the kind of thing we all would like to see in this thread. I encourage not to start going with personal messages nor in this discussion, nor in any other thread on the forum.

    @Ravenslight 's words about comparing a SoD developer to "a modder who really likes data base layouts and the colors red and black" may be hard but still they're only an opinion of a player, not a reason to go personal. In the same time, I want to believe @Mr2150 meant only that if Ravenslight wanted something to be implemented, it could be better not to offend the team but just focus on the details of the UI Ravenslight wanted to be changed.

    Again, I urge everyone to calm down and continue discussing UI, not other forumites, please.
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited August 2016
    EDITED on request of @JuliusBorisov
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,609
    Sometimes I feel like the child in that old story, “The Emperor’s New Cloths” around here.

    Pretending that all the changes were great and that anyone who says differently is rude or a trouble maker doesn’t change the fact that not everyone likes them.

    It is not a popular thing to say so here, and lord knows I know it’s not any fun, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t saying so other places.

    Here is an example of an opinion, other then my own, posted somewhere where they could express that opinion without being jumped on.

    The opinion expressed in this review concerning the UI starts at 1:14

  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    There is a difference between what someone might say, and how they say it. Especially when that person might want specific things as an outcome.

    An opinion is fine, but if you want people to hear it, it doesn't hurt to say nicely.
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