Kivan is always great on my BG1 runs ad should be a stalker. Valygar should be wizard slayer, not a ranger
I dont think Valygar should be wizard slayer. In this case everybody and her mother with personal vendetta against mages should be wizard slayer. Not only who trained specially against magic users.
I dont think Valygar should be wizard slayer. In this case everybody and her mother with personal vendetta against mages should be wizard slayer. Not only who trained specially against magic users.
All god points, also from Kajuru.
I guess I am projecting my preferences. I would find his story more compelling as a wizard slayer. Would also give him a reason to go after Irenicus with you.
Valygar I don't have much use for, bit of a jack rather than an ace.
That is fine, as the player style is really relevant for determining the usefulness of an NPC. I use often hide in shadows, as I don't want to rely on metagame knowledge, even if I have that knowledge. Often I bomb the enemies from the fog of war as a first strike, but only if my hiding ranger or thief has spotted them, and then the hiding character can make his backstab. After that if he is a ranger and not a thief, so can deal lot of damage DW a katana that stuns and a +1APR, while a tank or blade with defensife spin+buffs take the beating, even better. And for me being able to spot the enemies undetected is the only condition where I allow myself to buff before a battle or call summoned helpers before a battle. Unless there is a clear evidence that I am going to face something, if I am entering into a vampire nest or in a beholder lair, and the party is supposed to know it, I feel free to buff and summon. And that is not being a jack, is being a badass. In my way of playing.
But if you are using a different style, and need a frontliner that can take the beating Minsc is probably better. The only problem is why taking a ranger for that role, if Korgan or keldorn and his sword can cover the role better.
That's what I mean by a jack rather than an ace. Valygar is versatile, a jack of all trades. He can scout but he's not a thief, so he can't disarm traps, set traps or detect illusions. He can backstab as well as any NPC on a par with Yoshimo, but not like a PC built to backstab. He is decent in melee while dualwielding, but his lack of heavy armour means he needs more babysitting and can get into trouble quickly. He is a warrior but lacks saving throw bonuses/immunities, so is vulnerable to spells. He can cast a few spells himself but he is no cleric or mage.
It's absolutely right that playstyles vary, and some players like versatility; for them, Valygar can fill 2 roles in 1 character. The way I play, I want aces - specialists in their role. For scouting, I want Yoshimo, Imoen (with spells) or my PC if applicable. For melee, I want Korgan leading the line. For divine spellcasting, I want Viconia. Those types of NPCs don't have Valygar's versatility - Viconia is hardly much use for scouting for instance. But they are specialists in the role I want them to play, and I know the other specialists will cover other roles.
That's why I would much prefer an archer Kivan to Valygar and wish he was in BG2. An expert sniper is a role I would love to accommodate. A versatile scout I can do without.
In the example that I gave he is an ace, because no one that you mentioned can do that, Yoshimo can backstab, maybe better then him, as has less thac0 but better multiplier, but then lacks APR for the rest of the battle as loose 1/2 APR from the ranger class and an other APR against enemies with good AC as with rogue thaco and only 1 pip in DW would miss a lot. Yoshi can kill a mage, but for the rest of the battle is less useful. Imoen, that is a fantastic mage, can scout using spells, until the first true sight, he can equip the cloak that make him immune (she can use the SOtM to do that, like every mage), and she has to waste spells to do it. But don't send her to backstab or mlee. Korgan is the best one at leading the line, but I assume that in the party there is anyway some Korgan or charname to cover the role, the DMG that valygar do as first strike and then as flank attacker is added to Korgan's one, not instead of. And as flank attacker Minsc loose backstab and until you give him at least 2 pips in something that he can dual weld, also DMG, as using a 2 hander loose APR. A ranger has some (lame) divine casting ability, but is not a real caster, I never told of using him as the divine caster for the party, Jaheira can do that and be also a good DMG dealer, not a ranger.
I think that you have misunderstood my point, I am not talking of having a char that can cover 2 roles, Jan can do it, but not a stalker. I am talking of giving him only one role, in which he combine in the same battle his abilities (and in each of those he is inferior to some other char), as only a F/T, F->T or FMT can combine in the same battle first strike and then good mlee like he does. My point is that a ranger is not a fighter, even if has good fighting capability, if you want a good frontliner than use a fighter, not a ranger, even more if is a kitted one. That is why imo Minsc is inferior, is not kitted, so is a sub par fighter, with slower progression and no GM. A stalker, but also an archer or even a beastmaster, is even inferior than Minsc, is used to do the role of a frontline fighter, but is strong as the best fighter if used in his own role. And still is perfectly true that for some parties or play styles the role of a stalker is not so useful.
About preferring an archer Kivan to Valygar why? If we assume that we can change the vanilla NPCs is just as good as an archer Valygar or Minsc, No, wait, Minsc with his rage is the better one as merges rage and archer bonus and has the better ranged DMG output. But then the point is that every archer, not only Kivian, is very strong until very late in the game.
Yes Minsc is strong, etc, but as a slow leveling fighter, i rather have kagain, korgan even anomen at front line, and hire an archer or backstabber than to use minsc at first line. Minsc have a strong rpg value, like him or not, but not the best party member for his role.
Kivan kitted to an archer with any relevant mod is a machine gun, and the NPC I most wish had been carried over to BG2.
Minsc is alright as a frontliner but not a specialist like Korgan. Valygar I don't have much use for, bit of a jack rather than an ace.
BG1 wasn't balanced around BG2 kits, and it shows once you do as suggested. Kivan doesn't need the Archer kit to be a complete obliterator. Putting that kit on him is effectively like lowering the difficulty setting by 2 notches, and not even SCS can make up for that.
When it gets to Minsc or Valygar, it depends a lot on your party composition. I usually play with a F/T PC, so Valygar has little use for me. Minsc is a very solid fighter. Opposed to the other fighters, he's pretty good in all of his core stats, meaning he doesn't need items to fill gaps. He gets very early access to a +3 weapon with a Mind Shield in Lilarcor. In combination with his racial enemy trait and his Rage, he's a boon to a lot of the early more difficult encounters. He's not as a dominant figure as Kivan in BG1, but good enough to keep around as my 2h weapon carrier throughout the game.
Ok, first off, Minsc does not fit my ideal of a ranger...seriously. But Kivan is too...emo. And Valygar, as a character, is too underdeveloped. Add Minsc's humor, and my unhealthy infatuation with that hamsters of his, and well...Minsc by default, much to my embarrassment.
But, if it were an option, I would choose none of the above and instead go with Ranger-Hero Extraordinaire, Saver of Baldur's Gate, Defeater of Sarevok, Explorer of the Wilderness, and All-Around Good Guy, everyone give a good round of applause for (yes, yes he is incredibly handsome as well, thank you, thank you) The One...The Only...Chaaaaaaaarname!!!!!
Ok, first off, Minsc does not fit my ideal of a ranger...seriously.
And to make maters worse, he's still a Ranger for his showing in Neverwinter, but unlike us squishy Rangers, he doesn't have a bow or the little hand axes. He still has his great sword.
...Which I admit to not using on Minsc in my playthroughs in a while now. I love rocking the dual-mace to the head. Especially with the Mace of Stunning. Bring their INT and WIS score as low as yours, Minsc!
I have used Minsc as an archer once in all my playthroughs. Rocking gauntlets of dex he cleaned up nicely. I feel melee smasher fits him better though.
Minsc is the icon of the series, but Valygar is obscenely powerful. He carried my party throughout BG2.
From a power-perspective, he is amazing. Great stats as well as being the ideal mage-slayer. Just rush enemy mages with him (or stealth them from behind whenever you can), and he will do the rest. The bleed effect on his sword means they won't get a single spell off. Stoneskin won't matter - the bleed effect goes through it.
He is also a great scout, can deal a good amount of damage with backstab, hold his own in melee, and is a capable archer as well. He is the Aragorn of the series - really solid at of everything, as well as being the strong/silent type.
The only problem with Valygar (if it can be considered as a problem) is that he overshadows your own charname ranger due to his amazing equipment. It is literally good throughout the entire game and never needs replacing (except on the few occasions where you need a +3 or +4 weapon to hit something).
If you align with the shadow thieves and slap the anti-level drain amulet they give you on him, Valygar can single-handedly storm Bodhi's crypt (since his armour already provides resistance to charm and domination, thereby taking away every advantage of vampires). Vampires go from becoming an extreme nuisance to a walk in the park. You will never fear them again.
He is the Edwin of the ranger world in terms of power. From an RP perspective, he fits nicely as well. His mage-slaying potential fits well with his hatred of mages, and he grows throughout the series as he interacts with various spellcasters in your group, culminating in his epilogue. His weapon proficiency choice is of the quintessential woodsman - bow, spear, and sword. This is similar to Kivan, except for some bizarre reason, in BG:EE, Kivan is specialised in halberds, not spears. In the original game, Kivan's starting equipment is a spear and a bow. I guess the EE version continued with TuTu's legacy and stuck Kivan with a halberd (something which always annoyed me, and I always change his proficiency to spear via EE Keeper whenever I take him, since halberds simply don't make sense on Kivan - a wild elf from the deep forests of Shilmista).
Finally, if dismissed, Valygar prefers to go back to his cabin in the woods rather than his home in the city. He is the embodiment of a ranger, through and through, and so gets my vote.
Valygar has never let me down. He's useful as a scout and I kind of like his vibe. He hates wizards but has the wisdom to modify his views later. His dual-wielding backstabs are also the bomb when needed!
Kivan is certainly on top mechanics-wise but as a character, this shouldn't even be a contest. Kivan is a generic gruff brooding guy who could be the hero of a new Ubisoft game. Valygar is barely a character. Minsc is singlehandedly responsible for most of the BG community's memes.
I went Kivan, though Valygar is REALLY close. The reason is that Kivan, as an original BG1 character, could not get a kit. They simply weren't available when the game was first published. He should have been an archer, possibly a stalker. Also, in the original game, the proficiencies were compressed into categories like "large swords", "bows", and so on. How he wound up with halberd instead of a spear is beyond me.
Consider him as an longbowman. He has 17 dexterity, is an elf for the +1 bonus, and has longbow specialization. As an archer, he would be be even more effective. He's not a jgreat front liner due to his constitution, so having only one pip in spear or halberd is fine.
And keep in mind, I'm a huge Valygar fan; I was surprised how underappreciated he was when I looked him up on "the google machine". His personality is quiet, but that does not make him uninteresting.
Kivan is certainly on top mechanics-wise but as a character, this shouldn't even be a contest. Kivan is a generic gruff brooding guy who could be the hero of a new Ubisoft game. Valygar is barely a character. Minsc is singlehandedly responsible for most of the BG community's memes.
Not only is Valygar not "barely a character," he is the best developed ranger of the series.
Let us go through each of them.
Kivan (easily the least developed, by a wide margin): Silent. Brooding. Says a line or two here and there. Generic NPC. This is not Kivan's fault, because all BG1 NPC's are like this.
What do we know? His beloved was killed by Tazok, and now he wants vengeance. That's it. Does not change at all throughout the series. Anything else is the player's own imagination filling in the blanks.
Minsc: He can be summed up by the following quote: "An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers" - Plato
People think Minsc is the most developed, but this is simply untrue. Ask yourself - what do you actually know about him? The only reason he is considered to be such is because he is the loudest/goofiest character and has many banters along the way. Don't get me wrong - I love Minsc. The Forgotten Realms in popular culture has Drizzt. LoTR has Aragorn. Baldur's Gate has Minsc. He's our "official" ranger, whether we like it or not (and isn't it funny that it's always rangers who are the best loved within fantasy series?).
We don't know anything at all about Minsc except he was on a Dajemma with Dynaheir, and suffered a headwound along the way. That's literally *all* we ever learn about him. People confuse him for being the most developed because he is the most vocal. The two are not the same thing. Minsc actually has very little substance to him and shows zero growth and change. If Minsc truly was the most well developed, we would have insights as to what he was like prior to his injury. Perhaps he had a woman in Rasheman waiting for him? What were his hopes after he finished with his Dajemma? Etc etc. Minsc really is a blank slate, no more developed by the end of the game than he was when you meet him in Nashkel.
Valygar: Silent. Brooding. Human version of Kivan, really, except way, way more fleshed out and has many more banters (he is a BG2 NPC, after all). Actually grows throughout the series. He despises Lavok, but upon meeting him, he has doubts. He shows a willingness to change by reaching out to other party members and discussing magic with them. Sometimes he shows contempt (like with Edwin), sometimes he criticises (like with Neera), sometimes he is genuinely baffled (like with Aerie), and sometimes he seeks a mentor (like with Keldorn). Cernd helps Valygar too, as does charname. He actually takes these teachings to heart as the game progresses.
By the time his epilogue rolls around, he has cast away his shadows (he was essentially a celibate guy due to not wanting to pass on his cursed bloodline, in his view), marries, and has a child. He even becomes chief inspector instead of the lone woodsman. This is a bit like Aragorn's journey - rejects his heritage, becomes a loner, but by the end of it all he marries, becomes king, and is well-accepted by the community.
TL;DR: Kivan - Least developed. No growth. No change. Absolutely no character development at all. All we know about him is that his beloved was killed and he seeks vengeance. Nothing else. Whatever people like about him stems from their own imaginations, not the character himself. Indeed, he is "barely a character"!
Minsc - Barely more developed than Kivan. No growth. No change. Absolutely no character development at all. He is the same guy at the end of ToB that you meet in Nashkel. All we know about him is that he was on a Dajemma and suffered a headwound along the way. Nothing else about the character is ever revealed. He just yells a lot and people confuse this for substance.
Valygar - By far the best developed. Shows both growth and change. Character evolves (though done in a subtle way via a conversation had here and there, and his personality doesn't fundamentally change, unlike someone like Nalia). He is not the same guy you meet in Umar Hills that he is at the end of ToB. He learns to deal with his demons and overcomes them.
I just never managed to care for Minsc. He's funny and all, but it gets tiresome fast... You know, the comic relief ? Yeah, that's what he is...
So, it's between Kivan and Valygar. Kivan wins by a small margin, because of his BG2 mod. Yep, when I use him in BG1, I give him the archer kit, mostly for continuity between games. With the Unfinished Business mod, his personality is more refined. It's not for the faint of heart, but when he tells you what he went through with Tazok... Damn... No wonder he's gloomy.
Valygar is a close second. He is functionally so good. Yeah, I guess he doesn't talk much, but it fits his theme. Plus, I believe the Stalker kit is perfect for him... While he tries to get rid of his family history, he nonetheless ends up with some arcane power... You can't deny where you come from, whether you want it or not...
Valygar isn't very Ranger-y either, really. The only ranger thing about him is that he chooses a cabin near Imnesvale to hide in, but otherwise wants to return to Athkatla to deal with Lavok, and seemed to be living there when the wizards first came for him. Minsc seems to at least have more of a preference for animals and nature that he expresses.
If you include mods then Kivan does get fleshed out more. I really enjoyed the Kivan/Deheriana mod back in the day. I still think I prefer Valygar more but it's much closer.
Domi's BG2 mod and NPC project work was very strong writing. As an archer Kivan practically guarantees that Charname will survive the dangerous early levels while still being strong through ToB. From a role-playing and a power-playing perspective I find it difficult not to take Kivan along!
I intend to take all of these gentlemen on an all ranger run sometime though.
Comments
In fact, as far as I could see he does not hunt mages, as he would rather have no contact with magic at all.
Minsc is alright as a frontliner but not a specialist like Korgan. Valygar I don't have much use for, bit of a jack rather than an ace.
I guess I am projecting my preferences. I would find his story more compelling as a wizard slayer. Would also give him a reason to go after Irenicus with you.
I use often hide in shadows, as I don't want to rely on metagame knowledge, even if I have that knowledge.
Often I bomb the enemies from the fog of war as a first strike, but only if my hiding ranger or thief has spotted them, and then the hiding character can make his backstab. After that if he is a ranger and not a thief, so can deal lot of damage DW a katana that stuns and a +1APR, while a tank or blade with defensife spin+buffs take the beating, even better. And for me being able to spot the enemies undetected is the only condition where I allow myself to buff before a battle or call summoned helpers before a battle. Unless there is a clear evidence that I am going to face something, if I am entering into a vampire nest or in a beholder lair, and the party is supposed to know it, I feel free to buff and summon.
And that is not being a jack, is being a badass. In my way of playing.
But if you are using a different style, and need a frontliner that can take the beating Minsc is probably better. The only problem is why taking a ranger for that role, if Korgan or keldorn and his sword can cover the role better.
It's absolutely right that playstyles vary, and some players like versatility; for them, Valygar can fill 2 roles in 1 character. The way I play, I want aces - specialists in their role. For scouting, I want Yoshimo, Imoen (with spells) or my PC if applicable. For melee, I want Korgan leading the line. For divine spellcasting, I want Viconia. Those types of NPCs don't have Valygar's versatility - Viconia is hardly much use for scouting for instance. But they are specialists in the role I want them to play, and I know the other specialists will cover other roles.
That's why I would much prefer an archer Kivan to Valygar and wish he was in BG2. An expert sniper is a role I would love to accommodate. A versatile scout I can do without.
Imoen, that is a fantastic mage, can scout using spells, until the first true sight, he can equip the cloak that make him immune (she can use the SOtM to do that, like every mage), and she has to waste spells to do it. But don't send her to backstab or mlee.
Korgan is the best one at leading the line, but I assume that in the party there is anyway some Korgan or charname to cover the role, the DMG that valygar do as first strike and then as flank attacker is added to Korgan's one, not instead of.
And as flank attacker Minsc loose backstab and until you give him at least 2 pips in something that he can dual weld, also DMG, as using a 2 hander loose APR.
A ranger has some (lame) divine casting ability, but is not a real caster, I never told of using him as the divine caster for the party, Jaheira can do that and be also a good DMG dealer, not a ranger.
I think that you have misunderstood my point, I am not talking of having a char that can cover 2 roles, Jan can do it, but not a stalker. I am talking of giving him only one role, in which he combine in the same battle his abilities (and in each of those he is inferior to some other char), as only a F/T, F->T or FMT can combine in the same battle first strike and then good mlee like he does. My point is that a ranger is not a fighter, even if has good fighting capability, if you want a good frontliner than use a fighter, not a ranger, even more if is a kitted one.
That is why imo Minsc is inferior, is not kitted, so is a sub par fighter, with slower progression and no GM.
A stalker, but also an archer or even a beastmaster, is even inferior than Minsc, is used to do the role of a frontline fighter, but is strong as the best fighter if used in his own role.
And still is perfectly true that for some parties or play styles the role of a stalker is not so useful.
About preferring an archer Kivan to Valygar why? If we assume that we can change the vanilla NPCs is just as good as an archer Valygar or Minsc, No, wait, Minsc with his rage is the better one as merges rage and archer bonus and has the better ranged DMG output. But then the point is that every archer, not only Kivian, is very strong until very late in the game.
When it gets to Minsc or Valygar, it depends a lot on your party composition. I usually play with a F/T PC, so Valygar has little use for me.
Minsc is a very solid fighter. Opposed to the other fighters, he's pretty good in all of his core stats, meaning he doesn't need items to fill gaps. He gets very early access to a +3 weapon with a Mind Shield in Lilarcor. In combination with his racial enemy trait and his Rage, he's a boon to a lot of the early more difficult encounters.
He's not as a dominant figure as Kivan in BG1, but good enough to keep around as my 2h weapon carrier throughout the game.
Kivan is alright with the Domi rework and Valygar is a boring grump.
But Kivan is too...emo.
And Valygar, as a character, is too underdeveloped.
Add Minsc's humor, and my unhealthy infatuation with that hamsters of his, and well...Minsc by default, much to my embarrassment.
But, if it were an option, I would choose none of the above and instead go with Ranger-Hero Extraordinaire, Saver of Baldur's Gate, Defeater of Sarevok, Explorer of the Wilderness, and All-Around Good Guy, everyone give a good round of applause for (yes, yes he is incredibly handsome as well, thank you, thank you) The One...The Only...Chaaaaaaaarname!!!!!
...Which I admit to not using on Minsc in my playthroughs in a while now. I love rocking the dual-mace to the head. Especially with the Mace of Stunning. Bring their INT and WIS score as low as yours, Minsc!
From a power-perspective, he is amazing. Great stats as well as being the ideal mage-slayer. Just rush enemy mages with him (or stealth them from behind whenever you can), and he will do the rest. The bleed effect on his sword means they won't get a single spell off. Stoneskin won't matter - the bleed effect goes through it.
He is also a great scout, can deal a good amount of damage with backstab, hold his own in melee, and is a capable archer as well. He is the Aragorn of the series - really solid at of everything, as well as being the strong/silent type.
The only problem with Valygar (if it can be considered as a problem) is that he overshadows your own charname ranger due to his amazing equipment. It is literally good throughout the entire game and never needs replacing (except on the few occasions where you need a +3 or +4 weapon to hit something).
If you align with the shadow thieves and slap the anti-level drain amulet they give you on him, Valygar can single-handedly storm Bodhi's crypt (since his armour already provides resistance to charm and domination, thereby taking away every advantage of vampires). Vampires go from becoming an extreme nuisance to a walk in the park. You will never fear them again.
He is the Edwin of the ranger world in terms of power. From an RP perspective, he fits nicely as well. His mage-slaying potential fits well with his hatred of mages, and he grows throughout the series as he interacts with various spellcasters in your group, culminating in his epilogue. His weapon proficiency choice is of the quintessential woodsman - bow, spear, and sword. This is similar to Kivan, except for some bizarre reason, in BG:EE, Kivan is specialised in halberds, not spears. In the original game, Kivan's starting equipment is a spear and a bow. I guess the EE version continued with TuTu's legacy and stuck Kivan with a halberd (something which always annoyed me, and I always change his proficiency to spear via EE Keeper whenever I take him, since halberds simply don't make sense on Kivan - a wild elf from the deep forests of Shilmista).
Finally, if dismissed, Valygar prefers to go back to his cabin in the woods rather than his home in the city. He is the embodiment of a ranger, through and through, and so gets my vote.
Consider him as an longbowman. He has 17 dexterity, is an elf for the +1 bonus, and has longbow specialization. As an archer, he would be be even more effective. He's not a jgreat front liner due to his constitution, so having only one pip in spear or halberd is fine.
And keep in mind, I'm a huge Valygar fan; I was surprised how underappreciated he was when I looked him up on "the google machine". His personality is quiet, but that does not make him uninteresting.
EDIT: corrected dexterity, thanks @Arctodus
Let us go through each of them.
Kivan (easily the least developed, by a wide margin): Silent. Brooding. Says a line or two here and there. Generic NPC. This is not Kivan's fault, because all BG1 NPC's are like this.
What do we know? His beloved was killed by Tazok, and now he wants vengeance. That's it. Does not change at all throughout the series. Anything else is the player's own imagination filling in the blanks.
Minsc: He can be summed up by the following quote: "An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers" - Plato
People think Minsc is the most developed, but this is simply untrue. Ask yourself - what do you actually know about him? The only reason he is considered to be such is because he is the loudest/goofiest character and has many banters along the way. Don't get me wrong - I love Minsc. The Forgotten Realms in popular culture has Drizzt. LoTR has Aragorn. Baldur's Gate has Minsc. He's our "official" ranger, whether we like it or not (and isn't it funny that it's always rangers who are the best loved within fantasy series?).
We don't know anything at all about Minsc except he was on a Dajemma with Dynaheir, and suffered a headwound along the way. That's literally *all* we ever learn about him. People confuse him for being the most developed because he is the most vocal. The two are not the same thing. Minsc actually has very little substance to him and shows zero growth and change. If Minsc truly was the most well developed, we would have insights as to what he was like prior to his injury. Perhaps he had a woman in Rasheman waiting for him? What were his hopes after he finished with his Dajemma? Etc etc. Minsc really is a blank slate, no more developed by the end of the game than he was when you meet him in Nashkel.
Valygar: Silent. Brooding. Human version of Kivan, really, except way, way more fleshed out and has many more banters (he is a BG2 NPC, after all). Actually grows throughout the series. He despises Lavok, but upon meeting him, he has doubts. He shows a willingness to change by reaching out to other party members and discussing magic with them. Sometimes he shows contempt (like with Edwin), sometimes he criticises (like with Neera), sometimes he is genuinely baffled (like with Aerie), and sometimes he seeks a mentor (like with Keldorn). Cernd helps Valygar too, as does charname. He actually takes these teachings to heart as the game progresses.
By the time his epilogue rolls around, he has cast away his shadows (he was essentially a celibate guy due to not wanting to pass on his cursed bloodline, in his view), marries, and has a child. He even becomes chief inspector instead of the lone woodsman. This is a bit like Aragorn's journey - rejects his heritage, becomes a loner, but by the end of it all he marries, becomes king, and is well-accepted by the community.
TL;DR: Kivan - Least developed. No growth. No change. Absolutely no character development at all. All we know about him is that his beloved was killed and he seeks vengeance. Nothing else. Whatever people like about him stems from their own imaginations, not the character himself. Indeed, he is "barely a character"!
Minsc - Barely more developed than Kivan. No growth. No change. Absolutely no character development at all. He is the same guy at the end of ToB that you meet in Nashkel. All we know about him is that he was on a Dajemma and suffered a headwound along the way. Nothing else about the character is ever revealed. He just yells a lot and people confuse this for substance.
Valygar - By far the best developed. Shows both growth and change. Character evolves (though done in a subtle way via a conversation had here and there, and his personality doesn't fundamentally change, unlike someone like Nalia). He is not the same guy you meet in Umar Hills that he is at the end of ToB. He learns to deal with his demons and overcomes them.
So, it's between Kivan and Valygar. Kivan wins by a small margin, because of his BG2 mod. Yep, when I use him in BG1, I give him the archer kit, mostly for continuity between games. With the Unfinished Business mod, his personality is more refined. It's not for the faint of heart, but when he tells you what he went through with Tazok... Damn... No wonder he's gloomy.
Valygar is a close second. He is functionally so good. Yeah, I guess he doesn't talk much, but it fits his theme. Plus, I believe the Stalker kit is perfect for him... While he tries to get rid of his family history, he nonetheless ends up with some arcane power... You can't deny where you come from, whether you want it or not... Not that it matters, but he has 17 dex.
I intend to take all of these gentlemen on an all ranger run sometime though.