Or is all of this destroying the whole poverty concept?
It is destroying the poverty concept - but there's no particular problem with that. A poverty run sharply reduces the potentially viable classes and in itself that rather goes against the ethos of BG, so I don't see any reason in principle why you should stick to this specific set of restrictions.
Of course, once you start loosening the restrictions the question is how do you draw a line? If you're allowing mages back in by permitting spell memorization, then it might seem only fair to allow fighters a foothold by giving them a weapon or two. And if you're allowing weapons then why not other items (and so on ...). On the other hand I have no problem with arbitrary rules, so suggest you just decide on a set of restrictions that seem like an appropriate balance between fun and challenge for you and go with them .
If you still like the concept of poverty, but are considering alternative approaches, then one potential way forward would be not to restrict items per se, but to give yourself a budget. So for instance you could say you're allowed to spend no more than 10,000 gold in BG1 on quests, items, services etc. That would prevent doing things like over-reliance on exploding arrows or recharging wands of monster summoning and should still provide a reasonable challenge in the tougher fights (particularly if you're still intending to bang your head against the no-reload wall). In some ways I think that restriction would be truer to the spirit of the game as you get rewarded for doing side quests to pick up desired items rather than just doing the minimum necessary to move on to the big fights.
You are right @Grond0! In the past the poverty concept was a nice challenge but with SoD + SCS + LoB there is time for something new - especially when looking at solo and no-reload runs. The big question is always: How far to go?
I dont think that my rule setting destroys the poverty concept at all cause - at least when looking at its defintion poverty does NOT mean you have nothing per se but you are very limited with regard of having money, goods or support. From this point of view - plus our special rule setting - the poverty concept is still existent even though not in the way gamers have formulated it in the past. To hell with it!
The gold limit looks very interesting - will have to think about it!
A compromise - and one that would reward dungeon crawling via side quests a lot - would be to banish gold completly but allow any items that you have found by yourself @Grond0! So far i like that concept a lot. You might be limited in your equipment but with some good adventuring you can still find a lot of precious stuff. Maybe we could call this one "The Adventurer" - someone who refuses the comforts and luxus paid with gold but focuses on self-experience and rewards he gains during his travels only. I really like that!!
Other possibilities including only allowing the player to use one item per fight (you get one weapon, one type of potion, or one wand per fight), forgoing items above a certain gold price (you can afford chain mail but not full plate), or only disallowing purchased items (cutting down).
I think these would actually be a lot more fun than a poverty run, since poverty runs are so incredibly restrictive that they flat-out eliminate a lot of options, including underpowered ones. We could have new names for the new challenges:
1. Budget Run (10,000 for BG1; 20,0000 for SoD; 40,000 for BG2, and 80,000 for ToB) 2. One Item Run 3. Low-Cost Run 4. No-Merchant Run
I think they'd have the following effects:
1. The player wouldn't be able to rely on rechargeable items, but could maintain a decent set of equipment, and mages would have access to scrolls. 2. This would let the player choose any number of different strategies, but you couldn't do everything at once (a reasonable exception would be to allow the player to use, for example, bows and arrows at the same time if one of them is nonmagical). 3. This would give you a full set of equipment, but you would get very few bonuses (mage scrolls might be an issue due to their high prices). 4. This would probably be the simplest to play, since you don't have to fuss over gold values when you're living on raw loot.
Personally I think you guys going into masochism of some kind already but I like that about you since you need to explore even a tiniest bit of game in order to gain advantage over your oponent.
That said I think it would be lovely to see more people trying to finish original challenge with new class combinations. But that's me wanting to see some things I wouldn't think were possible.
Like I wouldn't ever say that the only two classes who managed to do this are both classes I never even had in any of my playthroughs; and I did play maaaany.
Nonetheless, keep it up however you want and as always have fun doing it.
These are some good ideas @semiticgod that should give the challenge new spice! You are right that a poverty run with our rule setting will be (nearly] impossible for any class in the long run and i must admit that the harsh restrictions make it a bit boring too.
Personally i like "The Adventurer" concept a lot as it still gives many options but one have to think very carefully expecially with regard to rechargeble items or ammunition.
The rule setting could look like this...
The Adventurer [Adv]: - The main character has to play solo without any NPC´s. - You are allowed to use gold only for quest purposes but not for items or services. - You can equip or use any items you have found during your adventurer - good hunting!
Maybe i should give this one a try - combined with no reload!
@Harpagornis Yeah definitely, I wont be committing to anything until I've gotten familiar enough with SoA.
@Myrag That's a good advice, I was thinking Death Warding all the Skelis but then saw that I've like two of them, so I decided it isn't really worth the trouble at this point. But that one Skeli soaking I could've done right there, because I can summon more when one dies.
I rolled up a new character to try the Adventurer rules Harpagornis suggested - Vent a berserker intending to dual to mage at level 9 (potentially allowing him to recover berserking abilities at the SoD XP cap).
Almost immediately I hit a problem though. Making progress with little or no missile capability will be pretty tough going, but I thought that could be made considerably easier by using Algernon's cloak - and no doubt that's true, but first Vent would need to identify it . A bit of research suggests that increasing his intelligence to 25 should do the trick - so he needs potions of genius or mind focusing. I know there's a potion of genius in the dungeon at Ulcaster. Anyone aware of any others around?
Incidentally, you might want to consider whether stealing is allowed in your rules Harpagornis. If it is then a thief would suddenly become a much more attractive class .
Pickpocket has long been an underpowered skill, and allowing people to steal stuff would be pretty balanced in a no-reload context for the Adventurer challenge. But it might break the challenge depending on what exactly you can steal. If it's possible for a Fighter/Mage/Thief to steal a bunch of wands and Arrows of Detonation from Sorcerous Sundries, then the Adventurer challenge wouldn't be too much different from the base challenge.
Speaking of which, I find it strange that we're trying to increase the difficulty of a LoB+SCS+Ascension solo no-reload challenge, considering even @Harpagornis of all people hasn't quite made it yet!
Still, this does shed new light on the game mechanics, and anything that develops the metagame is good by me.
At the moment i dont see a reason why stealing should not be allowed - its part of the Adventurers life if he has chosen the path of a Thief @Grond0 and @semiticgod. No?
And no: You cannot steal items like Arrows of Detonation or Wands from Sorcerous Sundries. The best you can get is a Nymph Cloak with 40 charges. Still not bad. So i dont think that stealing would break this challenge even though - like @Grond0 said - this would make the Thief class more attractice. Things like Algernons Cloak or Ring of Free Action you can get in other ways too while the bartender in Ulgoths Beard for instance cannot be pick pocketed even with 275 skill points. No Sandthief Ring - thats good!
P.S.Killing the Bartender only gives 9 gold while Halbazzer Drin only gets you a Mage Robe and Dagger.
P.P.S. You can steal a Potion of Mind Focusing from Thalantyr @Grondo!
Giving up on the early use of Algernon's Cloak, Vent went down to Nashkel. He acquired the ankheg armor and also learnt LMD there, which allowed him to kill Imoen without her joining the party - picking up a first lot of arrows from her body.
The fishermen north of the FAI provided a magical flail (which Vent is specializing in) and returning the bowl to Tenya took Vent to L3 - just a pretty miserable 16 HPs for the 2 levels though. Moving north again he beat up Dushai to get her ring.
He killed a few hobgoblins in the process of getting Joia's ring, but even that wasn't straight-forward. I suspect this run is going to be a struggle, but I'll do a bit more tomorrow.
Yeah @Grond0 the Adventurerer Challenge will be a different one. At first it looks so easy with all the items you can now use again but then so simple things like ammunition suddenly became a rare and precious thing. Not to mention wands. I am still not sure which class i will pick but the planning itself is fun enough.
P.S. You cant pick pocket the merchants who sell Necklace of Missiles so no fireball spamming against Sarevok (if you are no Mage).
There are two necklaces that are available for this challenge, so fireballs are not entirely ruled out for non-mages - though I agree there are unlikely to be enough to actually kill any of Sarevok's cronies.
Vent has made some more progress this morning, though it continues to be tough going. Looking to patch his vulnerability to crushing attacks he went in search of Krumm. After a few tries he was able to melee Caldo down, but hit and run attacks were useless against Krumm (who has fast weapon speed and often attacked twice before Vent attacked at all). Eventually Vent went off exploring for kobolds, bandits and hobgoblins to build up a stack of arrows and was able to use those to shoot Krumm down. More arrows then finished off an ogre to get Vent a second belt.
At the basilisk area Korax was pulled down near the southern group before being recruited. Killing those got Vent to level 5. Rather than searching for more basilisks Korax was then unleashed on Kirian's group, with the aim of completing his belt collection, but Korax failed to make much of an impression this time and Vent had to hurriedly retreat when hit by an unholy blight from Peter (fortunately there was no ambush as he was down to single figure HPs and fell unconscious on arrival when rage expired back in Beregost).
Working through the Cloud Peaks Vent did pick up the charisma tome, but I don't know if he will hang on to that. With no potion case available inventory space is going to get extremely squeezed and I don't think he would be able to identify the tome until SoD.
He laboriously built up a stock of about 160 arrows, before using all of those in one combat - the prize though of Meilum's bracers was worthwhile. After building up another stock a few melee hits added to 100+ arrows accounted for Greywolf - the reward from Prism taking Vent to level 6.
It shows that Fighters have much, much better chances than in the old poverty concept even though it looks a bit masochistic when comparing it with spellcasters who can call in summons. Thanks to pick pocket thieves are more valuable as they can easily get a lot of useful potions. Mages however are toned down a bit as they cannot just recharge all of their wands - especially with regard to the infamous WOMS. All in all that feels like the right direction to give no reloads more spice and it will make it even harder to steamroll the game in SoA like my Totemic Druid/Fighter and @histamiini´s Fighter/Cleric/Mage has shown so far. Sure the no-reload challenge has never been finished up to now but with all the knowledge and skill around thats only a matter of time. For me however happiness is more the way itself so i always tend to look for new ways or ideas instead of finishing runs. Therefore Korgath and Eklun will maybe have to wait until the end of time. Or at least until i tested the Adventurerer challenge in more detail. However: Have fun!
@Grond0 There are 4 Necklace of Missiles available, Nadine quest, Delorna, Elfsong and Carnival Merchants. They should be enough to take three of them out, maybe even four.
@Harpagornis I think the Sendai battle is the bottleneck for any character in Trilogy no-reload, because even cheesing it's so risky, and you can't prepare for it.
Six went and started the Fighter guest and with Sanctuary acquired lots of money and 110 xp without fighting much. And of course the FoA +3, dispelled Glaicus this time. Went to Trademeet start their quest and somebody dropped Sphere of Chaos, shouldn't that be available only in ToB? Anyway killed Treya for her Cloak of Unerding, weakhand ThaC0 +2 and one of the few SoA EE items solo can get. With sling lured her to my hasted Skelis.
Yeah @histamiini but as you cannot buy or steal them only two are available for the adventurer challenge! Sendai is tricky sure but even if something goes wrong you can (nearly) always go invisible again and pocket plane away. Cloak of Non-Detection is your best friend here. However: No one said it would be easy!
Normally i should try the Adventurerer Challenge with Totemic Druid but maybe i will test something else before. F/C/M should be strong too but maybe @histamiini wants to try this later on. I am still complaining about Clerics and the damn crusader attacks where i have failed several times now - at least without reloads. There is one spell i was always missing for unknown reasons: Greater Command! I tested it against the Ogres/Trolls as well as the Cleric/Cavalier wave and i have to say: It works great! Only the Trolls seem to be immune but the rest very often fall to ground and sleeps a long time. As damage does not break it and this should give clerics the punch to get through. Will have to test this more!
Helping Samuel pushed Vent's reputation to 10 and he tried to strike up a conversation with Zhurlong - but was pickpocketed instead and dumped the boots.
Deciding to tackle the Nashkel Mine, Vent worked his way through the kobold hordes by dragging them back and splitting them into small groups. He got into trouble a couple of times when trying to make more progress when already wounded and then being poisoned by the kobold guards - once being lucky to survive when he needed a rest to succeed in an unsafe location. However, he eventually made it down to Mulahey where he pulled a few of his guards away for disposal before the cleric moved up to the exit point. A bit of dodging in and out avoided a spell or two until Mulahey had had enough. After getting a Bhaal CLW, Vent allowed himself to be caught stealing in Beregost to reduce his reputation to 9. That was with a view to getting Bhaal horror next, but first he took a trip to the seaside where his 2 daily fixes of rage allowed him to easily melee individual sirines.
Vent then tried to micro-manage melee with a flesh golem, but found his weapon speed with his flail was just too slow to make that realistic. He switched to Twinkle, which proved much more realistic despite having no proficiency with that and managed to get the golem to badly wounded before taking a big hit himself. He tried running away, but found the amazon ambushers were on the prowl and they shot him down almost immediately - I suppose I should have done controlled journeys earlier to get that ambush safely out of the way.
Now I've got a better idea of the constraints for this class I'll give it one more go to see if Vent can do better next time.
After some thinking i have come to the conclusion that i will give the Cleric/Mage a try. Thanks to the Adventurer´s rules the Mage will not easily get scrolls or wands so the class is finally in the spot where i want it to be. My question to the mage pros @Grond0 and @semiticgod: Are there any detailed informations where you can get mage scrolls? Which ones will be unavailable at all? Thanks!
@Harpagornis Mikes I think is pretty old database, missing EE items as an example. There's no site that I can think that has everything up to date. So the only option is using Near Infinity, if you want to know where everything is.
Gethras, Six set up 4 Skelis and lured Mephits outside into the killing zone, same method for the Golems, although Skelis were just used as distraction as I pummeled them. 4 hasted Skelis were enough to deal Gethras himself. Mae'var, sanctuary, casted 5 Skelis at the stairs who first killed the Cleric, rested, and another patch was able to defeat all the assassins and Mae'var himself.
Sanasha and Prebek was first Greater Malisoned, then Silenced and then meleed down, completed Harper Hold as much as solo can. After doing couple guests for the Temple I had enough money to buy DoEH and Shield of Balduran, for some xp farming.
Went to the Unseeing lair and started killing Gauth's with FoA and Shield of Balduran, and quickly made enough xp, for 6th level Cleric spells and Harm, which about doubles the farming speed. After 40 or so Gauth's got 6th level mage spells. So basically you can farm max level after getting Shield of Balduran with no risk. I wonder if I should sneak the Rift Device out with Familiar, and use it against some particular enemy? Melissan comes to mind, making 6000 damage with push of a button would be nice?
EDIT: With 11/12/11 F/M/C it takes about minute to kill two Gauths with 1 Harm, DUHM, Haste, FoA and Shield of Balduran. So it would take about 5 hours to farm to the max level, although as Thac0 lowers it becomes faster. I think I'll try atleast the second Harm to see how long that takes.
EDIT: 75 Gauths got me second Harm. Haste, DUHM, Harm, kill, Harm, kill takes about 35 seconds for 18k xp, it still takes 2.8 hours for max level, although Harm doesn't always work.
I pushed Eklun to max level killing hundreds of Gauths @histamiini. Took several hours but is - like you stated - completly risk free. When hitting the rest button fast enough he sometimes managed to get up to eight Gauths - so funny.
I dont have any ideas about Near Infinity as i never used. Any advide or tutorials about it?
Have you tested the Rift Device steal? Does it work on other enemies than the Eyeless One? Would be too cool.
@Harpagornis Yeah, I think doing this nr challenge and not taking every advantage just isn't very smart. 100 or so Gauths got me Power Attack, and soon Critical Strike, so I'll atleast see how long does Harm, Critical Strike, Harm take.
Near Infinity is damn easy, install, extended search gets you everything. I haven't tested the Rift Device yet, so I've to see if I can get confimation or something for it. Maybe I've to modify my Cavalier install to try it out.
@Harpagornis: The best way to use Near Infinity is to just start tooling around with it. If you just want to look stuff up and have no interest in modding, try out the "Search functions" at the top of the menu. You'll be able to do everything from find critter codes to look up their stats to generating a list of all critters with 19 Strength. It's quite versatile.
I don't know if you can still smuggle the Rift Device through a familiar in EE v2.5, but the level 7, mod-introduced Teleport spell will let you skip the sewers entirely and take it anywhere.
The Rift Device does four things:
1. Dispel magic, regardless of level 2. Reduce the target's HP to 40% of its maximum 3. Remove the Unseeing Eye's SCS-introduced item, removing its demilich-style immunities 4. Deletes the Rift Device and replaces it with the expended version, which does nothing (no way to recharge it because it has no abilities)
The first two will affect any critter. Melissan is a good target, but there are plenty of other candidates. Depending on your SCS install, you can use it via a clone without losing it. If you're working with a v2.X update before v2.5, the item duplication trick will work on it, like with any other item.
The Rift Device works with the Wand of Lightning trick.
This mainly just says where you can buy scrolls and there are loads of them to find in your adventures. One particularly useful spell that you can't buy is stoneskin - that can be found on one of the mages on the Ice Island.
Damn I somehow thought Critical Strike always hit, but it's for the attack roll, not hit roll. Well anyway best case scenario killing two Gauths is with 2 Harms, about 18 seconds. With that max level still takes 75 minutes, plus resting, plus additional time when Harm doesn't work.
@Harpagornis: Near Infinity can do pretty much anything that WeiDu can, besides handle strings properly (and maybe dialogues). I haven't done much scripting but I've done it via Near Infinity.
Comments
Of course, once you start loosening the restrictions the question is how do you draw a line? If you're allowing mages back in by permitting spell memorization, then it might seem only fair to allow fighters a foothold by giving them a weapon or two. And if you're allowing weapons then why not other items (and so on ...). On the other hand I have no problem with arbitrary rules, so suggest you just decide on a set of restrictions that seem like an appropriate balance between fun and challenge for you and go with them
If you still like the concept of poverty, but are considering alternative approaches, then one potential way forward would be not to restrict items per se, but to give yourself a budget. So for instance you could say you're allowed to spend no more than 10,000 gold in BG1 on quests, items, services etc. That would prevent doing things like over-reliance on exploding arrows or recharging wands of monster summoning and should still provide a reasonable challenge in the tougher fights (particularly if you're still intending to bang your head against the no-reload wall). In some ways I think that restriction would be truer to the spirit of the game as you get rewarded for doing side quests to pick up desired items rather than just doing the minimum necessary to move on to the big fights.
I dont think that my rule setting destroys the poverty concept at all cause - at least when looking at its defintion poverty does NOT mean you have nothing per se but you are very limited with regard of having money, goods or support. From this point of view - plus our special rule setting - the poverty concept is still existent even though not in the way gamers have formulated it in the past. To hell with it!
The gold limit looks very interesting - will have to think about it!
I think these would actually be a lot more fun than a poverty run, since poverty runs are so incredibly restrictive that they flat-out eliminate a lot of options, including underpowered ones. We could have new names for the new challenges:
1. Budget Run (10,000 for BG1; 20,0000 for SoD; 40,000 for BG2, and 80,000 for ToB)
2. One Item Run
3. Low-Cost Run
4. No-Merchant Run
I think they'd have the following effects:
1. The player wouldn't be able to rely on rechargeable items, but could maintain a decent set of equipment, and mages would have access to scrolls.
2. This would let the player choose any number of different strategies, but you couldn't do everything at once (a reasonable exception would be to allow the player to use, for example, bows and arrows at the same time if one of them is nonmagical).
3. This would give you a full set of equipment, but you would get very few bonuses (mage scrolls might be an issue due to their high prices).
4. This would probably be the simplest to play, since you don't have to fuss over gold values when you're living on raw loot.
That said I think it would be lovely to see more people trying to finish original challenge with new class combinations. But that's me wanting to see some things I wouldn't think were possible.
Like I wouldn't ever say that the only two classes who managed to do this are both classes I never even had in any of my playthroughs; and I did play maaaany.
Nonetheless, keep it up however you want and as always have fun doing it.
Personally i like "The Adventurer" concept a lot as it still gives many options but one have to think very carefully expecially with regard to rechargeble items or ammunition.
The rule setting could look like this...
The Adventurer [Adv]:
- The main character has to play solo without any NPC´s.
- You are allowed to use gold only for quest purposes but not for items or services.
- You can equip or use any items you have found during your adventurer - good hunting!
Maybe i should give this one a try - combined with no reload!
@Myrag That's a good advice, I was thinking Death Warding all the Skelis but then saw that I've like two of them, so I decided it isn't really worth the trouble at this point. But that one Skeli soaking I could've done right there, because I can summon more when one dies.
Almost immediately I hit a problem though. Making progress with little or no missile capability will be pretty tough going, but I thought that could be made considerably easier by using Algernon's cloak - and no doubt that's true, but first Vent would need to identify it
Incidentally, you might want to consider whether stealing is allowed in your rules Harpagornis. If it is then a thief would suddenly become a much more attractive class
Speaking of which, I find it strange that we're trying to increase the difficulty of a LoB+SCS+Ascension solo no-reload challenge, considering even @Harpagornis of all people hasn't quite made it yet!
Still, this does shed new light on the game mechanics, and anything that develops the metagame is good by me.
And no: You cannot steal items like Arrows of Detonation or Wands from Sorcerous Sundries. The best you can get is a Nymph Cloak with 40 charges. Still not bad. So i dont think that stealing would break this challenge even though - like @Grond0 said - this would make the Thief class more attractice. Things like Algernons Cloak or Ring of Free Action you can get in other ways too while the bartender in Ulgoths Beard for instance cannot be pick pocketed even with 275 skill points. No Sandthief Ring - thats good!
P.S.Killing the Bartender only gives 9 gold while Halbazzer Drin only gets you a Mage Robe and Dagger.
P.P.S. You can steal a Potion of Mind Focusing from Thalantyr @Grondo!
The fishermen north of the FAI provided a magical flail (which Vent is specializing in) and returning the bowl to Tenya took Vent to L3 - just a pretty miserable 16 HPs for the 2 levels though. Moving north again he beat up Dushai to get her ring.
He killed a few hobgoblins in the process of getting Joia's ring, but even that wasn't straight-forward. I suspect this run is going to be a struggle, but I'll do a bit more tomorrow.
P.S. You cant pick pocket the merchants who sell Necklace of Missiles so no fireball spamming against Sarevok (if you are no Mage).
Vent has made some more progress this morning, though it continues to be tough going. Looking to patch his vulnerability to crushing attacks he went in search of Krumm. After a few tries he was able to melee Caldo down, but hit and run attacks were useless against Krumm (who has fast weapon speed and often attacked twice before Vent attacked at all). Eventually Vent went off exploring for kobolds, bandits and hobgoblins to build up a stack of arrows and was able to use those to shoot Krumm down. More arrows then finished off an ogre to get Vent a second belt.
At the basilisk area Korax was pulled down near the southern group before being recruited. Killing those got Vent to level 5. Rather than searching for more basilisks Korax was then unleashed on Kirian's group, with the aim of completing his belt collection, but Korax failed to make much of an impression this time and Vent had to hurriedly retreat when hit by an unholy blight from Peter (fortunately there was no ambush as he was down to single figure HPs and fell unconscious on arrival when rage expired back in Beregost).
Working through the Cloud Peaks Vent did pick up the charisma tome, but I don't know if he will hang on to that. With no potion case available inventory space is going to get extremely squeezed and I don't think he would be able to identify the tome until SoD.
He laboriously built up a stock of about 160 arrows, before using all of those in one combat - the prize though of Meilum's bracers was worthwhile. After building up another stock a few melee hits added to 100+ arrows accounted for Greywolf - the reward from Prism taking Vent to level 6.
It shows that Fighters have much, much better chances than in the old poverty concept even though it looks a bit masochistic when comparing it with spellcasters who can call in summons. Thanks to pick pocket thieves are more valuable as they can easily get a lot of useful potions. Mages however are toned down a bit as they cannot just recharge all of their wands - especially with regard to the infamous WOMS. All in all that feels like the right direction to give no reloads more spice and it will make it even harder to steamroll the game in SoA like my Totemic Druid/Fighter and @histamiini´s Fighter/Cleric/Mage has shown so far. Sure the no-reload challenge has never been finished up to now but with all the knowledge and skill around thats only a matter of time. For me however happiness is more the way itself so i always tend to look for new ways or ideas instead of finishing runs. Therefore Korgath and Eklun will maybe have to wait until the end of time. Or at least until i tested the Adventurerer challenge in more detail. However: Have fun!
@Harpagornis I think the Sendai battle is the bottleneck for any character in Trilogy no-reload, because even cheesing it's so risky, and you can't prepare for it.
Six went and started the Fighter guest and with Sanctuary acquired lots of money and 110 xp without fighting much. And of course the FoA +3, dispelled Glaicus this time. Went to Trademeet start their quest and somebody dropped Sphere of Chaos, shouldn't that be available only in ToB? Anyway killed Treya for her Cloak of Unerding, weakhand ThaC0 +2 and one of the few SoA EE items solo can get. With sling lured her to my hasted Skelis.
Normally i should try the Adventurerer Challenge with Totemic Druid but maybe i will test something else before. F/C/M should be strong too but maybe @histamiini wants to try this later on. I am still complaining about Clerics and the damn crusader attacks where i have failed several times now - at least without reloads. There is one spell i was always missing for unknown reasons: Greater Command! I tested it against the Ogres/Trolls as well as the Cleric/Cavalier wave and i have to say: It works great! Only the Trolls seem to be immune but the rest very often fall to ground and sleeps a long time. As damage does not break it and this should give clerics the punch to get through. Will have to test this more!
Deciding to tackle the Nashkel Mine, Vent worked his way through the kobold hordes by dragging them back and splitting them into small groups. He got into trouble a couple of times when trying to make more progress when already wounded and then being poisoned by the kobold guards - once being lucky to survive when he needed a rest to succeed in an unsafe location. However, he eventually made it down to Mulahey where he pulled a few of his guards away for disposal before the cleric moved up to the exit point. A bit of dodging in and out avoided a spell or two until Mulahey had had enough. After getting a Bhaal CLW, Vent allowed himself to be caught stealing in Beregost to reduce his reputation to 9. That was with a view to getting Bhaal horror next, but first he took a trip to the seaside where his 2 daily fixes of rage allowed him to easily melee individual sirines.
Vent then tried to micro-manage melee with a flesh golem, but found his weapon speed with his flail was just too slow to make that realistic. He switched to Twinkle, which proved much more realistic despite having no proficiency with that and managed to get the golem to badly wounded before taking a big hit himself. He tried running away, but found the amazon ambushers were on the prowl and they shot him down almost immediately - I suppose I should have done controlled journeys earlier to get that ambush safely out of the way.
Now I've got a better idea of the constraints for this class I'll give it one more go to see if Vent can do better next time.
Start rolling soon - this may take a while!
P.S. Gives http://mikesrpgcenter.com/bgate/maps.html a complete overview or are there missing some scrolls?
Sanasha and Prebek was first Greater Malisoned, then Silenced and then meleed down, completed Harper Hold as much as solo can. After doing couple guests for the Temple I had enough money to buy DoEH and Shield of Balduran, for some xp farming.
Went to the Unseeing lair and started killing Gauth's with FoA and Shield of Balduran, and quickly made enough xp, for 6th level Cleric spells and Harm, which about doubles the farming speed. After 40 or so Gauth's got 6th level mage spells. So basically you can farm max level after getting Shield of Balduran with no risk. I wonder if I should sneak the Rift Device out with Familiar, and use it against some particular enemy? Melissan comes to mind, making 6000 damage with push of a button would be nice?
EDIT: With 11/12/11 F/M/C it takes about minute to kill two Gauths with 1 Harm, DUHM, Haste, FoA and Shield of Balduran. So it would take about 5 hours to farm to the max level, although as Thac0 lowers it becomes faster. I think I'll try atleast the second Harm to see how long that takes.
EDIT: 75 Gauths got me second Harm. Haste, DUHM, Harm, kill, Harm, kill takes about 35 seconds for 18k xp, it still takes 2.8 hours for max level, although Harm doesn't always work.
I dont have any ideas about Near Infinity as i never used. Any advide or tutorials about it?
Have you tested the Rift Device steal? Does it work on other enemies than the Eyeless One? Would be too cool.
Near Infinity is damn easy, install, extended search gets you everything. I haven't tested the Rift Device yet, so I've to see if I can get confimation or something for it. Maybe I've to modify my Cavalier install to try it out.
I don't know if you can still smuggle the Rift Device through a familiar in EE v2.5, but the level 7, mod-introduced Teleport spell will let you skip the sewers entirely and take it anywhere.
The Rift Device does four things:
1. Dispel magic, regardless of level
2. Reduce the target's HP to 40% of its maximum
3. Remove the Unseeing Eye's SCS-introduced item, removing its demilich-style immunities
4. Deletes the Rift Device and replaces it with the expended version, which does nothing (no way to recharge it because it has no abilities)
The first two will affect any critter. Melissan is a good target, but there are plenty of other candidates. Depending on your SCS install, you can use it via a clone without losing it. If you're working with a v2.X update before v2.5, the item duplication trick will work on it, like with any other item.
The Rift Device works with the Wand of Lightning trick.
But i dont think that duplicating it or combining it with the Wand of Lightning trick is the way to go.
Near Infinity looks very interesting. You can mod the game with it? Even AI scripts @semiticgod?
Reached 14/14/14 and got 7th HLA, I've taken
Whirlwind
Greater Whirlwind
Power Attack
Critical Strike
Smite
Hardiness
Summon Deva
12 HLA's still left to decide.