Ha, ha, ha... Loreth went crazy after buffing Pick Pocketing to 225 with 5x Potion of Master Thievery and robbing everyone at Ulgoths Beard... including Shandalar... too bad we could not get his Robe of the Neutral Arch Mage... but lots of scrolls and 2x Potion of Heroism. From the rest the most mentionable loot were a Bastard Sword +1, Leather Armor +1 and - yeah - the Kneecapper Hammer from Hurgan. Well, not to forget: The Ring of Free Action from Dushai. After some sleep at the inn the adventure will continue. Tomorrow!
Dragon Disciple proving her worth against the 2nd floor Durlag's Tower invisible "chasing bug" where all the ghasts chase you down through the levels and mob you like bees suffocating a wasp, regardless of if they can see you.
Actually, the ghasts summoned by that corridor in the second dungeon floor of Durlag's tower are a special variant with an added AI script. That script is called "movep1.bcs", and it has one command: if this creature doesn't see the PC, move to player 1.
Presumably, it was created because those ghasts are usually summoned out of sight of the player, and this was an easy way to get them to actually engage rather than just stand there. I wouldn't call it a bug, since it's clearly deliberate.
Kaladin the bear and 3 of the wolves - lured then burned to ash in the machine, with help of 100%CR, 127%FR and potion of freedom
Fission Slime- Monster Summoning 2 then burned to ash with scorcher rays
Air Aspect - Lured to the machine, turned to ash
Phoenix Guard - Monster Summoning 2 then wand of frost
Chess Board - Skipped
2 trips back to Sorcerous Sundries for gear changes + now little more than annoying ambushes, and a whole bunch more deaths:
2 frozen holds by Kaladin (turns out 100%CR doesn't stop this, whoops)
1 Failure with the Golems on level 1, charmed by Love
2 Mobbed by ghasts on level 2 softlocking the game without using ctrl-J, or just dying after losing invisibility.
3 Because I was an idiot and left the Phoenix Guard until last, making it much harder to be invisible when teleporting to the Chess Board. Shoulda done the air aspect last.
Actually, the ghasts summoned by that corridor in the second dungeon floor of Durlag's tower are a special variant with an added AI script. That script is called "movep1.bcs", and it has one command: if this creature doesn't see the PC, move to player 1.
Presumably, it was created because those ghasts are usually summoned out of sight of the player, and this was an easy way to get them to actually engage rather than just stand there. I wouldn't call it a bug, since it's clearly deliberate.
Thats really interesting actually, but it needs special planning to deal with!
I still prefer a maximum amount of gold that may be carried around, if only because it requires less administration. It applies all the time and if you initially don't notice you're carrying too much gold, you can correct it relatively quickly in most cases by visiting the nearest temple. Having to donate after every chapter ends amounts to "admin stuff", somewhat uninteresting to-do stuff that I may well forget to actually do if I don't keep a checklist or something. Or even worse: without a checklist I'll probably forget even if I did pay after, say, Chapter 5. I'll be like: "I already paid, right? Or was that after Chapter 4?"
What I do like about the curse, is that having to pay 10k after Chapter 1, means Chapter 2 cannot be initiated so easily. Mages who intend to keep the ring of wizardry have quite a bit of money making to do before they can visit Nashkel, and non-Mages basically lose the free 9k from the ring.
Hmmm I've rolled 96 point Berserker, and now I don't know what to do with it. The original plan was to dual to Druid so I'd have a strong character with relatively little inventory management conflict, thanks to limited weapon access and to berserker rage reducing the need for certain potions. But when I think of the late game as well, even though I'm totally unlikely to make it there, Thac0 progression seems to become an issue with enemies' insane AC no? Or do I focus to much on the fighter part, and not enough on the druid part? How about Berserker/Mage, with way worse Thac0 unless dualled very late?
Right now I reckon the best duals in terms of warrior ability would be Berserker/Cleric thanks to all the buffs and Berserker/Thief with the best off-hand weapon in the game and with access to weapons like the Answerer and Soul Reaver. The Berserker/Mage also gets access to those weapons of course, but will probably still have a hard time landing the initial hits with them and has very few weapon proficiencies after dualling.
How would you rank the various Berserker duals for the purpose of the Cataclysm challenge, and why? Or would someone stick to single-class?
Edit:
Thinking about it more, I'm now inclined to go Mage: once Thac0 becomes an issue, Tenser's will have become available. From that point combat could be started with cc and disabling magic, and buffs of course, and then followed by Tenser's to clean up. Sounds like fun
@Harpagornis Don't know if 5k or 10k will make difference, it's going to hurt rechargers easily the most though. Fighters will have hard time recharging Sandthief ring and OGL, and with no charming or summons they're being squeesed out from Catalysm. Maybe 5k for starters? Or does merging donations and no recharging make any sense?
@histamiini could you link the part in this massive thread where you talk about getting past B with a Sorc and/or a cleric/mage please. I'm pleased its been done since the only time I every fought him as a solo caster (Non-LoB, Insane, Cleric/mage) I just gave up in frustration.
Thanks for your replies! Lliira seems to offer lots of options. I am fan of maximum gold limit that characters can carry as it also synergises to some degree with Ilmater. We may also give it a more flexible approach:
Lliira: The maximum amount of gold Charname can have is his carrying weight x 100
This favours Fighter classes thanks to their better starting Strength. Other ideas?
At the moment it looks most of us (me too) prefers to take Waukeen. Mages are more or less forced to take this while even Fighters gain a lot (Sandthief Ring, Durlags Goblet...) so i think it might be a good idea to tone it down a bit. What about...
Waukeen: Items can be recharged only once in shops
Is this enough for our Mage lovers to open new possibilities regarding other curses? Feedback is welcome!
@Blackraven: Yeah, Berserker7/Druid is one of my favourites even though leveling might be quite painful. Your choice!
@histamiini could you link the part in this massive thread where you talk about getting past B with a Sorc and/or a cleric/mage please. I'm pleased its been done since the only time I every fought him as a solo caster (Non-LoB, Insane, Cleric/mage) I just gave up in frustration.
Lv1 immunity is practically the only way for Sorcerer through Bel with saving throw fix. Or maybe improve the Fireshield Blue tactic somehow? C/M though can dispatch him in no time with Martyr's Morningstar, Enchanted Weapon and Durlag's Goblet.
Both your suggestions excallent I think @Harpagornis!
Liira's carrying weight * 100 is very well thought out. And so is Waukeen's limited recharging. Maybe we could take Waukeen even a bit further by allowing Charname to recharge a limited number of items, maybe 3 or 5? By that I mean individual items, not categories of items. So if you pick the wand of fire once, you can only recharge one wand of fire, for example the one you find in the ankheg nest, and no other wands of fire unless you choose the wand of fire twice. Without such a limitation there are still five necklaces of missiles that can be charged once each, countless wands, and a couple of shield amulets to name some obvious rechargable items.
Thanks for your feedback @Blackraven, i think for the moment we might leave Waukeen at one recharge per item. If still doesnt fit in the middle-long run we might change it again - okay?
Here is the updated list of curses:
Chauntea: No XP farming unless Charname has gained 3.000.000 XP´s
Cyric: Potion- and spellbuffs with a duration of less than 2 hours may only be applied during combat
Gond : No forged items by Jegg Hillcarver, Cromwell & Cespenar
Ilmater: No containers of any kind
Lliira: The maximum amount of gold Charname can have is his carrying weight *100
Lolth: No antidots or elixirs of health
Malar: Except for Beast Masters only one summon spell can be active in combat
Mask: The inventory may be accessed during combat to use consumables but not to switch items
Mystra: Each creature gains the saving throw fix
Selune: Resting is only allowed in inns and cleared dungeon floors. In the wilderness it only works near houses
Sune: Creatures cannot be charmed or dominated unless using an innate ability
Tempus: Except for Wizard Slayers retreats from ambushes are only possible if
1. At least one enemy takes damage
2. Charname takes damage from a physical attack or gets hit by a spell/gaze
Torm: Familiars cannot attack but are allowed to take other actions as normal
Tymora: Random number of Hit Points on level up and no INT-buffing for scroll scribing
Tyr: No attacking or killing of innocents unless they can be provoked through dialogue
Waukeen: Items can be recharged only once in shops
16+1 curses so far - nice. I hope no one gets lost in there...
Damn Beast Master/Cleric has pretty measly weapons for SoA. Clubs, Quarterstaffs and Slings, and because they can't be improved (Gond) only +4 options are two Staffs and Slings, Sling of Everard being the only +5 option (+BMU in ToB).
As you wish @Harpagornis. @histamiini, you raise a good point. Do you think it would be fairer to the different classes and weapon types to loosen Gond's curse? Something like:
Gond: Jegg, Cromwell, and Cespenar can each upgrade just one item.
Btw does no containers mean no chests either? I'm running out of space fast. Is it safe to sell stuff, as in items won't disappear in the inventory?
Yes, I find this one the harder parts of the Cataclysm challenge. The only option is to not pick up stuff from containers until you need it, and yes, you can safely sell and buy back later. At least I'm not aware of any inventories that get overwritten.
Yeah, i can live with losening Gond a bit while selling items and buy them back should be the only way around the no container curse in my opinion, right?!
Update:
Gond: Jegg, Cromwell, and Cespenar can each upgrade just one item
This should give especially Fighter classes a little bit more options in the mid-late game!
Loreth, the Shadowdancer6/Fighter continued her adventure:
Meilum: 1200 XP, stabbed to death without problems. Time to meet Khark? Nope! Greywolf: 1400 XP, stabbed down without any hit Krumm & Caldo: 850 XP, another stabbing session Colquettle: Giving back the amulet pushed Rep to 20 Algernon: Buffed up with a Potion of Master Thievery, stealing worked on second try Smithy: Bought Shadow Armor saving 1.6k gold thanks to Algernons Cloak +2 CHA Droth: 975 XP, used Potion of Magic Blocking absorbing his Chromatic Orbs, Charms and Acid Arow but right in the middle of stabbing fatigue creeped in forcing Loreth to roll crits for hits, never forget to rest... Mad Arcand: 300 XP Kylees Dagger: 200 XP, stealted through the mine without any failure Mulahey: 650 XP, Stabbed the neutral kobolds guards down, stabbed Mulahey two times before his guards arrived, found a sweet spot afterwards where Loreth could stab him using stealth manipulation but thought this should be okay as she would have to soak up lots of enemy fire if stealth fails. Luckily it worked all the time so Mulahey got stabbed down slowly but surely Jospehs Ring: 800 XP Tranzig: 975 XP, played hit and stealth with him even though mistiming it once and eating his Acid Arrow Bandit Camp: Stealthed in, Shadow Step, grabbed loot, restealth and good bye
Next will be the dreaded Cloak Wood. What i love about the new curses is, that this area is no more a walk in the park but a place where death lurks around every ambush - at least for some classes. ;o)
Now that Sophia is approaching the BG1 Endgame I am updating my feedback on the curses for DD. She has killed Kahrk (very easy with Monster Summoning 2 + Wand of Frost & Fire), and is thinking about how to kill the others.
Cyric: Potion- and spellbuffs with a duration of less than 2 hours may only be applied during combat
- I like this one more and more: forces creative thinking
Ilmater: No containers of any kind
- This is my favorite of all the curses, since It forces you to really be picky about what you pick up: want the belt of antipode for later? look forward to it taking up valuable inventory space for tiiiime. it means you end up leaving lots of stuff behind, no more pack-rat, no more faffing around looting for gold - if you don't need it, leave it. I haven't been using chests to store things either - purely what I can hold.
Lliira: The maximum amount of gold Charname can have is his carrying weight *100
- Do not like, with Ilmater and Tempus this should restrict how much gold you can pick up in a run anyway unless you want to do endless loot runs which seems to take the fun out of it. Too much fiddly micromanaging and paying attention to inventory numbers.
Lolth: No antidots or elixirs of health
- nice, requires creativity
Malar: Except for Beast Masters only one summon spell can be active in combat
- also nice, also sparks creativity
Mask: The inventory may be accessed during combat to use consumables but not to switch items
- This one is cool since It really bit me when I wanted to swap out belt of antipode and realized I was not permitted to. Might be hell for more gear dependent chars
Mystra: Each creature gains the saving throw fix
- I am curious if without the saving throw fix B can be polymorphed or other means of save or die? I don't really understand how saves work in LoB + SCS some things seem easy to effect, some things seem hard. Im going to play around with polymorph other.
Selune: Resting is only allowed in inns and cleared dungeon floors. In the wilderness it only works near houses
- I have enjoyed this, really makes you think about adventuring, however, I have been classing the outside of Durlag's Tower as somewhere safe (technically it is near a house!) to rest because travelling back and fourth to Nashkel/Temple as I sieged my way down just seemed to be pointless tedium/time wasting rather than a challenge at this point.
Sune: Creatures cannot be charmed or dominated unless using an innate ability
- forces creative playing so all good imo
Tempus: Except for Wizard Slayers retreats from ambushes are only possible if
1. At least one enemy takes damage
2. Charname takes damage from a physical attack or gets hit by a spell/gaze
- love this one with one caveat: I almost feel like this should cease to apply in BG1 once you reach max level and the ambushes are inconveniences, not life or death experiences. - e.g. getting ambushed by kobolds with -11 AC vs missiles and hanging around waiting for a crit on yourself, knowing you can't take off any of your anti-missile gear due to Mask isn't a challenge, its a time waster. As a lvl 9 DD when ambushed it is very much run, summon monsters, stand still and wait for something to hit you and for you summons to hit something then leaving: not challenging, just annoying.
Torm: Familiars cannot attack but are allowed to take other actions as normal
- I don't like this, the familiar attacking is only situationally useful for basilisks in my experience, and its just a class perk imo. My suggestion would be something like "No pseudo-dragon" which might encourage giving some of the other familiars a chance to shine?
Tymora: Random number of Hit Points on level up and no INT-buffing for scroll scribing
- Looks good imo, though I had very lucky HP rolls and think my DD only dropped 7 HP, which is ridiculously lucky.
Tyr: No attacking or killing of innocents unless they can be provoked through dialogue
-Nice, allows pickpocketing its time in the sun
Waukeen: Items can be recharged only once in shops
- As said above, as it was before this really penalized not having at least some caster levels so I like this revised one: would mean a theoretical 125 extra fireballs if all OGLs were collected. For a DD, there seem to be enough wands to make this unimportant (so far). For the DD it has been zero issue and I had charges to spare getting to Baldur's Gate. This might actually be too little of a curse now, since 50 shields, 50 Greenstone charges should be enough for anyone? Just thoughts
---
My final suggestion would be a variant which would synergise Bhaal's Curse with the other 16(?) - i.e. some link between say if you kill 4/4 of the targets that will lift one curse, meaning that BG1 -> ToB you could lift up to 4 curses, if you could kill the requisite enemies. Again, just thoughts.
I ran into similar problems regarding ambushes... that you hit the enemies easily while they have a hard time to touch you... what about this solution...
Tempus: Except for Wizard Slayers retreats from ambushes are only possible if
1. At least one enemy takes damage
2. Charname takes damage from a physical attack or gets hit by a spell/gaze
OR
1. Charname kills one enemy
Should be an easy job for well-armed or -spelled characters, no?
With regard to Lliira: Personally i like this but thats the opinion of someone who never really plays Mages. If the curse tends to shut down weak spellcasters too much we can still balance things out.
Yeah, i also agree that Torm and not allowing Familiars attacking anything is kind of lacking something.... hhmmmm.... i am open for alternatives!
Lifting more curses after each part is a big NO for me. What i can think of is....
Charname is allowed to choose another divine curse after each part. That would give us a bit more flexibility while still maintaining the challenge level. What do you think?
It took a while, but finally got one of the bosses down. Kahrk fell for Oil of Speed and 28 hits from Ring of Energy. Ring of Energy was acquired by OGL'n Denak's party out of sight. Currently at lv5.
/img]
@Harpagornis I agree killing enemy in ambush should be enough too.
@everyone, I want to express my appreciation to all of you for really redesigning the game with this challenge and all the curses! Amazing!
@Harpagornis:
- Good improvement for Tempus, it will tackle the issue @alice_ashpool mentioned while keeping ambushes relevant.
- Regarding Liira, @alice_ashpool makes a fair point that wealth is already affected by Tempus and Ilmater. Maybe another restriction isn't really necessary.
- I love the idea of curse switching being allowed upon completion of each part, as it adds customizability, opening up potential for interesting builds and playthroughs.
Okay... got the point... and... yeah... i dont want poor Wimp getting crushed by a single gold coin. So lets remove Lliira for the moment cause the donation after each chapter is too lame...
Tempus update looks fine and will go live shorty - unless someone else says: No, no!
I got an idea regarding Talos but thats a really brutal one:
Talos: Spells, Scrolls and Potions cannot be used to protect against elemental attacks
If you have another - maybe more elegant way - to make elemental attacks more dangerous: Your chance!
If you want to restrict purchases more, how about making Waukeen limit you to only being able to buy one copy of each type of item? That would put more of a premium on finding things when adventuring (so you could sell and repurchase), rather than making use of infinite supplies of wands in shop stocks.
Taking risks whenever possible Loreth killed Taurgosz while the whole Bandit Camp failed to find the sneaky Shadow Dancer. Stealthed out unseen and unharmed... next target: Cloakwood.
@alice_ashpool: Maybe some of our Mage Lovers can help you regarding the Demon Knight!
I've hit a wall: Demon Knight. Not sure how to do this without physical damage. And the DD was going so well: Polymorph Other was cleaning up
Yes, a serious challenge for a single-class wizard. I never use it myself, but have you tried it with the mirror? If you can take out your own mirror fiend, then it could help to get the Demon Knight attacked by its own mirror fiend which presumably gets all LoB bonuses as well. A fully charged wand of monster summoning to get occasional crits from ogres and gnolls?
Comments
Presumably, it was created because those ghasts are usually summoned out of sight of the player, and this was an easy way to get them to actually engage rather than just stand there. I wouldn't call it a bug, since it's clearly deliberate.
Kaladin the bear and 3 of the wolves - lured then burned to ash in the machine, with help of 100%CR, 127%FR and potion of freedom
Fission Slime- Monster Summoning 2 then burned to ash with scorcher rays
Air Aspect - Lured to the machine, turned to ash
Phoenix Guard - Monster Summoning 2 then wand of frost
Chess Board - Skipped
2 trips back to Sorcerous Sundries for gear changes + now little more than annoying ambushes, and a whole bunch more deaths:
2 frozen holds by Kaladin (turns out 100%CR doesn't stop this, whoops)
1 Failure with the Golems on level 1, charmed by Love
2 Mobbed by ghasts on level 2 softlocking the game without using ctrl-J, or just dying after losing invisibility.
3 Because I was an idiot and left the Phoenix Guard until last, making it much harder to be invisible when teleporting to the Chess Board. Shoulda done the air aspect last.
Edit: Thats really interesting actually, but it needs special planning to deal with!
Some feedback about Lliira would be nice:
Lliira: After each chapter Charname has to donate 10.000 gold at a temple
Are 10k gold too much? Should we lower it to 5k? Or are there other ideas for this one?
What I do like about the curse, is that having to pay 10k after Chapter 1, means Chapter 2 cannot be initiated so easily. Mages who intend to keep the ring of wizardry have quite a bit of money making to do before they can visit Nashkel, and non-Mages basically lose the free 9k from the ring.
Right now I reckon the best duals in terms of warrior ability would be Berserker/Cleric thanks to all the buffs and Berserker/Thief with the best off-hand weapon in the game and with access to weapons like the Answerer and Soul Reaver. The Berserker/Mage also gets access to those weapons of course, but will probably still have a hard time landing the initial hits with them and has very few weapon proficiencies after dualling.
How would you rank the various Berserker duals for the purpose of the Cataclysm challenge, and why? Or would someone stick to single-class?
Edit:
Thinking about it more, I'm now inclined to go Mage: once Thac0 becomes an issue, Tenser's will have become available. From that point combat could be started with cc and disabling magic, and buffs of course, and then followed by Tenser's to clean up. Sounds like fun
Lliira: The maximum amount of gold Charname can have is his carrying weight x 100
This favours Fighter classes thanks to their better starting Strength. Other ideas?
At the moment it looks most of us (me too) prefers to take Waukeen. Mages are more or less forced to take this while even Fighters gain a lot (Sandthief Ring, Durlags Goblet...) so i think it might be a good idea to tone it down a bit. What about...
Waukeen: Items can be recharged only once in shops
Is this enough for our Mage lovers to open new possibilities regarding other curses? Feedback is welcome!
@Blackraven: Yeah, Berserker7/Druid is one of my favourites even though leveling might be quite painful. Your choice!
Lv1 immunity is practically the only way for Sorcerer through Bel with saving throw fix. Or maybe improve the Fireshield Blue tactic somehow? C/M though can dispatch him in no time with Martyr's Morningstar, Enchanted Weapon and Durlag's Goblet.
Liira's carrying weight * 100 is very well thought out. And so is Waukeen's limited recharging. Maybe we could take Waukeen even a bit further by allowing Charname to recharge a limited number of items, maybe 3 or 5? By that I mean individual items, not categories of items. So if you pick the wand of fire once, you can only recharge one wand of fire, for example the one you find in the ankheg nest, and no other wands of fire unless you choose the wand of fire twice. Without such a limitation there are still five necklaces of missiles that can be charged once each, countless wands, and a couple of shield amulets to name some obvious rechargable items.
Here is the updated list of curses:
Chauntea: No XP farming unless Charname has gained 3.000.000 XP´s
Cyric: Potion- and spellbuffs with a duration of less than 2 hours may only be applied during combat
Gond : No forged items by Jegg Hillcarver, Cromwell & Cespenar
Ilmater: No containers of any kind
Lliira: The maximum amount of gold Charname can have is his carrying weight *100
Lolth: No antidots or elixirs of health
Malar: Except for Beast Masters only one summon spell can be active in combat
Mask: The inventory may be accessed during combat to use consumables but not to switch items
Mystra: Each creature gains the saving throw fix
Selune: Resting is only allowed in inns and cleared dungeon floors. In the wilderness it only works near houses
Sune: Creatures cannot be charmed or dominated unless using an innate ability
Tempus: Except for Wizard Slayers retreats from ambushes are only possible if
1. At least one enemy takes damage
2. Charname takes damage from a physical attack or gets hit by a spell/gaze
Torm: Familiars cannot attack but are allowed to take other actions as normal
Tymora: Random number of Hit Points on level up and no INT-buffing for scroll scribing
Tyr: No attacking or killing of innocents unless they can be provoked through dialogue
Waukeen: Items can be recharged only once in shops
16+1 curses so far - nice. I hope no one gets lost in there...
Damn Beast Master/Cleric has pretty measly weapons for SoA. Clubs, Quarterstaffs and Slings, and because they can't be improved (Gond) only +4 options are two Staffs and Slings, Sling of Everard being the only +5 option (+BMU in ToB).
Gond: Jegg, Cromwell, and Cespenar can each upgrade just one item.
Btw does no containers mean no chests either? I'm running out of space fast. Is it safe to sell stuff, as in items won't disappear in the inventory?
What do you say @Harpagornis?
Yes, I find this one the harder parts of the Cataclysm challenge. The only option is to not pick up stuff from containers until you need it, and yes, you can safely sell and buy back later. At least I'm not aware of any inventories that get overwritten.
Update:
Gond: Jegg, Cromwell, and Cespenar can each upgrade just one item
This should give especially Fighter classes a little bit more options in the mid-late game!
Ouch - that's going to make progressing with Wimp significantly harder
Loreth, the Shadowdancer6/Fighter continued her adventure:
Meilum: 1200 XP, stabbed to death without problems. Time to meet Khark? Nope!
Greywolf: 1400 XP, stabbed down without any hit
Krumm & Caldo: 850 XP, another stabbing session
Colquettle: Giving back the amulet pushed Rep to 20
Algernon: Buffed up with a Potion of Master Thievery, stealing worked on second try
Smithy: Bought Shadow Armor saving 1.6k gold thanks to Algernons Cloak +2 CHA
Droth: 975 XP, used Potion of Magic Blocking absorbing his Chromatic Orbs, Charms and Acid Arow but right in the middle of stabbing fatigue creeped in forcing Loreth to roll crits for hits, never forget to rest...
Mad Arcand: 300 XP
Kylees Dagger: 200 XP, stealted through the mine without any failure
Mulahey: 650 XP, Stabbed the neutral kobolds guards down, stabbed Mulahey two times before his guards arrived, found a sweet spot afterwards where Loreth could stab him using stealth manipulation but thought this should be okay as she would have to soak up lots of enemy fire if stealth fails. Luckily it worked all the time so Mulahey got stabbed down slowly but surely
Jospehs Ring: 800 XP
Tranzig: 975 XP, played hit and stealth with him even though mistiming it once and eating his Acid Arrow
Bandit Camp: Stealthed in, Shadow Step, grabbed loot, restealth and good bye
Next will be the dreaded Cloak Wood. What i love about the new curses is, that this area is no more a walk in the park but a place where death lurks around every ambush - at least for some classes. ;o)
Cyric: Potion- and spellbuffs with a duration of less than 2 hours may only be applied during combat
- I like this one more and more: forces creative thinking
Ilmater: No containers of any kind
- This is my favorite of all the curses, since It forces you to really be picky about what you pick up: want the belt of antipode for later? look forward to it taking up valuable inventory space for tiiiime. it means you end up leaving lots of stuff behind, no more pack-rat, no more faffing around looting for gold - if you don't need it, leave it. I haven't been using chests to store things either - purely what I can hold.
Lliira: The maximum amount of gold Charname can have is his carrying weight *100
- Do not like, with Ilmater and Tempus this should restrict how much gold you can pick up in a run anyway unless you want to do endless loot runs which seems to take the fun out of it. Too much fiddly micromanaging and paying attention to inventory numbers.
Lolth: No antidots or elixirs of health
- nice, requires creativity
Malar: Except for Beast Masters only one summon spell can be active in combat
- also nice, also sparks creativity
Mask: The inventory may be accessed during combat to use consumables but not to switch items
- This one is cool since It really bit me when I wanted to swap out belt of antipode and realized I was not permitted to. Might be hell for more gear dependent chars
Mystra: Each creature gains the saving throw fix
- I am curious if without the saving throw fix B can be polymorphed or other means of save or die? I don't really understand how saves work in LoB + SCS some things seem easy to effect, some things seem hard. Im going to play around with polymorph other.
Selune: Resting is only allowed in inns and cleared dungeon floors. In the wilderness it only works near houses
- I have enjoyed this, really makes you think about adventuring, however, I have been classing the outside of Durlag's Tower as somewhere safe (technically it is near a house!) to rest because travelling back and fourth to Nashkel/Temple as I sieged my way down just seemed to be pointless tedium/time wasting rather than a challenge at this point.
Sune: Creatures cannot be charmed or dominated unless using an innate ability
- forces creative playing so all good imo
Tempus: Except for Wizard Slayers retreats from ambushes are only possible if
1. At least one enemy takes damage
2. Charname takes damage from a physical attack or gets hit by a spell/gaze
- love this one with one caveat: I almost feel like this should cease to apply in BG1 once you reach max level and the ambushes are inconveniences, not life or death experiences. - e.g. getting ambushed by kobolds with -11 AC vs missiles and hanging around waiting for a crit on yourself, knowing you can't take off any of your anti-missile gear due to Mask isn't a challenge, its a time waster. As a lvl 9 DD when ambushed it is very much run, summon monsters, stand still and wait for something to hit you and for you summons to hit something then leaving: not challenging, just annoying.
Torm: Familiars cannot attack but are allowed to take other actions as normal
- I don't like this, the familiar attacking is only situationally useful for basilisks in my experience, and its just a class perk imo. My suggestion would be something like "No pseudo-dragon" which might encourage giving some of the other familiars a chance to shine?
Tymora: Random number of Hit Points on level up and no INT-buffing for scroll scribing
- Looks good imo, though I had very lucky HP rolls and think my DD only dropped 7 HP, which is ridiculously lucky.
Tyr: No attacking or killing of innocents unless they can be provoked through dialogue
-Nice, allows pickpocketing its time in the sun
Waukeen: Items can be recharged only once in shops
- As said above, as it was before this really penalized not having at least some caster levels so I like this revised one: would mean a theoretical 125 extra fireballs if all OGLs were collected. For a DD, there seem to be enough wands to make this unimportant (so far). For the DD it has been zero issue and I had charges to spare getting to Baldur's Gate. This might actually be too little of a curse now, since 50 shields, 50 Greenstone charges should be enough for anyone? Just thoughts
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My final suggestion would be a variant which would synergise Bhaal's Curse with the other 16(?) - i.e. some link between say if you kill 4/4 of the targets that will lift one curse, meaning that BG1 -> ToB you could lift up to 4 curses, if you could kill the requisite enemies. Again, just thoughts.
I ran into similar problems regarding ambushes... that you hit the enemies easily while they have a hard time to touch you... what about this solution...
Tempus: Except for Wizard Slayers retreats from ambushes are only possible if
1. At least one enemy takes damage
2. Charname takes damage from a physical attack or gets hit by a spell/gaze
OR
1. Charname kills one enemy
Should be an easy job for well-armed or -spelled characters, no?
With regard to Lliira: Personally i like this but thats the opinion of someone who never really plays Mages. If the curse tends to shut down weak spellcasters too much we can still balance things out.
Yeah, i also agree that Torm and not allowing Familiars attacking anything is kind of lacking something.... hhmmmm.... i am open for alternatives!
Lifting more curses after each part is a big NO for me. What i can think of is....
Charname is allowed to choose another divine curse after each part. That would give us a bit more flexibility while still maintaining the challenge level. What do you think?
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@Harpagornis I agree killing enemy in ambush should be enough too.
@everyone, I want to express my appreciation to all of you for really redesigning the game with this challenge and all the curses! Amazing!
@Harpagornis:
- Good improvement for Tempus, it will tackle the issue @alice_ashpool mentioned while keeping ambushes relevant.
- Regarding Liira, @alice_ashpool makes a fair point that wealth is already affected by Tempus and Ilmater. Maybe another restriction isn't really necessary.
- I love the idea of curse switching being allowed upon completion of each part, as it adds customizability, opening up potential for interesting builds and playthroughs.
Tempus update looks fine and will go live shorty - unless someone else says: No, no!
I got an idea regarding Talos but thats a really brutal one:
Talos: Spells, Scrolls and Potions cannot be used to protect against elemental attacks
If you have another - maybe more elegant way - to make elemental attacks more dangerous: Your chance!
@alice_ashpool: Maybe some of our Mage Lovers can help you regarding the Demon Knight!
Yes, a serious challenge for a single-class wizard. I never use it myself, but have you tried it with the mirror? If you can take out your own mirror fiend, then it could help to get the Demon Knight attacked by its own mirror fiend which presumably gets all LoB bonuses as well. A fully charged wand of monster summoning to get occasional crits from ogres and gnolls?