She's cute (which maybe the reason for her late availability? already have a cute thief at the start of Chapter 1 that is...), but heavily depends on backstabranged damage for her damage output, it's also not gonna help much to have so many thief skill points in game, whereas a multi thief would suffice all party needsonly for the bare necessities of finding traps and opening locks, and her superior saving throws & damage reduction don'talso help that much either,to better kill spellcasters fast than letting them cast a spell. In powerness,a brute-force run when I'm satisfied only to find traps and open locks instead of having broader Thief skills, then I'd choose Coran over her, 20 dex, the most damaging bow npc wielder in bg1, adequate thief skills.
I agree with you when you describe these two as different approaches, or playstyles, but imo, not all playstyles are created equal, that is, some are less effective than others, or at least much more difficult to manage at best, like a playstyle with no or few summons has innate disadvantages over those abusing high level summons, a player may like the former, but won’t like the harder approach it brings. For Alora, her signature is her backstab potential (let’s not compare her ranged attacks with Coran’s bow shall we?), but cheese aside, Coran’s thac0 and dps still surpass her. You can enjoy her broader thief skills, defensive stats of course, but there’re plenty of ways to work around and Coran have better armor options etc, and all of which are of much less importance compared to sheer combat effectiveness. So as said before, some players may like how Alora plays, but choose Coran because he leads a more effective & easier way. Of course the differences shall be minor without modded settings, still better to bear them in mind.
... a playstyle with no or few summons has innate disadvantages over those abusing high level summons, a player may like the former, but won’t like the harder approach it brings.
Nah. I don't use many summons, but that doesn't make the game harder. Summons can be helpful for boss fights (which is when I do fairly often use them), but any other fight is too easy to bother summoning, summons would just get in the way.
For Alora, her signature is her backstab potential
That's nonsense. Alora has poor backstab potential - she can be better at it than any other single-class Thief in BG1, but it's still such a weak ability that it's a waste of time to bother with it. I can't remember ever backstabbing with her. No single-class Thief is any use at back-stabbing at BG1 levels, and not even particularly good at it in BG2. If you want a seriously useful backstabber, then you want a Stalker or a Fighter/Thief, and even they can't do it very well until BG2, when their THAC0 gets low enough that a backstab stands a decent chance of actually hitting. Setting up for a backstab is worthless when you're just going to miss, and usually takes longer than it would have taken to just charge in and kill the enemy - and that's even true of many boss fights.
So no, Alora in combat is way better at range (DEX bonus to THAC0, and better APR) than anything she can do up close (including backstabbing). Of course she's not as good at range as Coran - no-one is - but in Coran's case, that's his signature ability.
However, Alora's signature isn't ranged combat, her signature is Thief skill. You just don't seem to get it about Thief skills. Maybe you've never actually used any Thief skill except finding traps and opening locks? Try setting a few traps, and watch all the enemies die before your warriors have even had time to get in a single blow. Now that's a skill which can get up to a reliably-useful level by mid-BG1 (and remains useful until end-ToB), unlike backstabbing. Of course other Thieves can also learn Set Traps, but Alora can do that in addition to covering the other Thief skills.
So that's when you want Alora - when you want to take advantage of Thief skills. Yes, this choice is a matter of playing style. I get it that some players aren't interested in using Thieves well (or don't know how), but many of us find it both enjoyable and effective.
I see we already came to agreements with each other on most of aspects, and we're talking about bg1 not tob as neither of them are available there w/o mods, I just want to say Alora's trap doesn't add that much compared to Coran and let's end this discussion.
If you want to backstab it's Shar-Teel you need, not Alora. Exceptional Strength, weapon mastery (high mastery if you're really munchkiny) and good Thac0 -- Alora's luck isn't enough to match this.
Edit: Alora can backstab and do good damage with it of course. Every Thief can. But her stats favor ranged combat a lot more.
Do u consider talking Alora's combat effectiveness offtopic in "Alora!" thread? If so, you should've told some people many times to leave already, there're comparations (to Coran specifically) before I post here.
Taking sides? I was just stating my opinion of Alora, Gallowglass disagrees so we argued, perfectly normal behavior on-forum & on-topic, until you began to turn this thread into this "pointless, unwinnable debate"
@subtledoctor I am pretty sure it's okay to talk about this unless the OP and/or a moderator/admin say otherwise. All that's thread derailing and off topic here is your complaining :V
"strawman" "attack" You get pretty sweet mouth for being paranoid about people who think otherwise of Alora, I'm glad you're not the admin/moderator here and never should be.
Don't act like you care, trouble maker "I'm not going to dignify your pathetic behavior with any response - I've simplify flagged you as an waste of my time. L8r."
A friendly reminder to remember the Site Rules. Insults and flaming are not acceptable here.
And no, I'm not talking to him. I'm talking to YOU.
If you believe another user is breaking the Site Rules, report the post or contact a moderator--do not try to fight it out in the thread. We will address the situation privately (you will not be informed what action we take against the user you reported).
@subtledoctor I am pretty sure it's okay to talk about this unless the OP and/or a moderator/admin say otherwise. All that's thread derailing and off topic here is your complaining :V
I don't mind where this discussion goes, as long as we are all civil to one another. After all, that is the point of these forums - conversation, discussion, debate.
Sweet? Yes. Innocent? Probably not so much. She is a sly dog and her sweet demeanor helps with people underestimating her.
Heh heh, just one more reason to like her, in my opinion. I can picture her making her cute comments to someone at a tavern, whilst simultaneously robbing them blind. She reminds me of a kender from Dragonlance, one who doesn't necessarily "steal", but rather "borrow, find, discover items that have somehow dropped into her pouches.
I never played Dragonlance but Kender are a popular race in LARPing here. People literally just play them because they think constantly annoying people is funny.
I don't mind where this discussion goes, as long as we are all civil to one another. After all, that is the point of these forums - conversation, discussion, debate.
It seems subtledoctor minds where the discussion goes, that's why he brought it out in the first place... Taking about "civil", just want to remind you that the subtledoctor posts you see now are "revised" ones, which are edited ~after~ the debate.
I would expect people to conduct themselves in an honourable and distinguished manner here on the forums. Unfortunately, there are some people who delight in stirring the pot, especially from the safety of their home, where there are no consequences to their words, at least none physical.
One wonders how said people would conduct themselves if we were all in a room together.
In the end, it is best to not associate with these types. Base and ignoble people are a vexation to the soul. Far better it be, to walk alone in the forest like an elephant than to suffer the company of fools.
Comments
For Alora, her signature is her backstab potential (let’s not compare her ranged attacks with Coran’s bow shall we?), but cheese aside, Coran’s thac0 and dps still surpass her. You can enjoy her broader thief skills, defensive stats of course, but there’re plenty of ways to work around and Coran have better armor options etc, and all of which are of much less importance compared to sheer combat effectiveness.
So as said before, some players may like how Alora plays, but choose Coran because he leads a more effective & easier way. Of course the differences shall be minor without modded settings, still better to bear them in mind.
So no, Alora in combat is way better at range (DEX bonus to THAC0, and better APR) than anything she can do up close (including backstabbing). Of course she's not as good at range as Coran - no-one is - but in Coran's case, that's his signature ability.
However, Alora's signature isn't ranged combat, her signature is Thief skill. You just don't seem to get it about Thief skills. Maybe you've never actually used any Thief skill except finding traps and opening locks? Try setting a few traps, and watch all the enemies die before your warriors have even had time to get in a single blow. Now that's a skill which can get up to a reliably-useful level by mid-BG1 (and remains useful until end-ToB), unlike backstabbing. Of course other Thieves can also learn Set Traps, but Alora can do that in addition to covering the other Thief skills.
So that's when you want Alora - when you want to take advantage of Thief skills. Yes, this choice is a matter of playing style. I get it that some players aren't interested in using Thieves well (or don't know how), but many of us find it both enjoyable and effective.
Edit: Alora can backstab and do good damage with it of course. Every Thief can. But her stats favor ranged combat a lot more.
She deserves all the love >.>
She is a sly dog and her sweet demeanor helps with people underestimating her.
You get pretty sweet mouth for being paranoid about people who think otherwise of Alora, I'm glad you're not the admin/moderator here and never should be.
"I'm not going to dignify your pathetic behavior with any response - I've simplify flagged you as an waste of my time. L8r."
And no, I'm not talking to him. I'm talking to YOU.
If you believe another user is breaking the Site Rules, report the post or contact a moderator--do not try to fight it out in the thread. We will address the situation privately (you will not be informed what action we take against the user you reported).
People literally just play them because they think constantly annoying people is funny.
Taking about "civil", just want to remind you that the subtledoctor posts you see now are "revised" ones, which are edited ~after~ the debate.
One wonders how said people would conduct themselves if we were all in a room together.
In the end, it is best to not associate with these types. Base and ignoble people are a vexation to the soul. Far better it be, to walk alone in the forest like an elephant than to suffer the company of fools.