How important is realism in fantasy settings?
I'm interested to see what people's opinions are on realism in fantasy settings.
How important is realism to you?
Do you get irritated by the physics bending antics of movie Legolas?
Are you an acolyte of the Rule of Cool?
Personally, whilst I'm happy to let my mind wander in a world of dragons and chromatic orbs, I still like to think about mundane factors like:
-How are my characters feeding themselves?
-How much do 20,000 gold coins weigh?
-Could he really swing a longsword in either hand?
-If I'm sneaking up to quietly despatch a sentry, is a 6 foot long piece of wood really my best option?
-Do the Hogwarts kids really not learn basic maths or grammar?
This discussion applies to literature, video games, pnp, movie/tv and any other media.
The only proviso being that magic exists within the internal universe... whether that be the wand-waving ubiquitous magic of the Potterverse or something more subtle or structured.
How important is realism to you?
Do you get irritated by the physics bending antics of movie Legolas?
Are you an acolyte of the Rule of Cool?
Personally, whilst I'm happy to let my mind wander in a world of dragons and chromatic orbs, I still like to think about mundane factors like:
-How are my characters feeding themselves?
-How much do 20,000 gold coins weigh?
-Could he really swing a longsword in either hand?
-If I'm sneaking up to quietly despatch a sentry, is a 6 foot long piece of wood really my best option?
-Do the Hogwarts kids really not learn basic maths or grammar?
This discussion applies to literature, video games, pnp, movie/tv and any other media.
The only proviso being that magic exists within the internal universe... whether that be the wand-waving ubiquitous magic of the Potterverse or something more subtle or structured.
- How important is realism in fantasy settings?50 votes
- Realism is essential to immersion. Magic doesn't mean that anything goes.10.00%
- Realism is important, but exceptions can be made if there's good internal logic/explanation.26.00%
- I'm happy for each setting to play by its own rules.26.00%
- Realism isn't very important, but some internal logic would be good.20.00%
- It's a magical world. It happens by magic and I'm cool with that.4.00%
- Other.14.00%
- Show me results.0.00%
Post edited by abacus on
9
Comments
I personally am of the opinion that realism is an important element within Science Fantasy, Hard Fantasy, Contemporary Fantasy, as well as Low Fantasy. On the contrary, it would probably be nigh impossible to expect even a shred of realism in High Fantasy and Heroic Fantasy. There are of course also subgenres which can be either. Fables for example can also play in the Modern era filled with rationality and realism. Not just in the Middle Ages.
As a rule of thumb, I like fantasy settings where magic is not an omnipotent force that can ressurect the dead, heal any ailments and create new life with just using an aria, or the likes. Nor do I like things where middle school protagonists get summoned in another world with cheat-like skills by random gods, enabling them to punch down even the mightiest of titans. So I'm more of a Low and Hard Fantasy fan where the people are believeable characters.
Same goes with plotholes, breaking character, having characters tout the author's personal beliefs, Mary Sues, and similar pitfalls. They all remind the reader that they're not reading about a magical other world; they're just reading a story that some random human made up. Fantasy should be just realistic enough so people don't think "wait, that doesn't make any sense."
As long as the reader doesn't notice, fantasy can be as unrealistic as the author wants.
In a "science fiction" fantasy setting, though, we expect realism to apply much more often than not. Vehicles designed for space travel do not have to be aerodynamically shaped, unless they are also designed for atmospheric entry (of course, gravitic drives obviate the need for aerodynamics since the vehicle can "float" its descent or ascent).
One of the better examples of my preferred level of realism would be Martin's Song of Ice & Fire... it's a world with dragons, walking dead and an apparently active lord of fire, and yet the way people fight and the way they live is very authentic.
A different example would be Pratchett. The Disk is as unreal as it gets... even the fundamental particles are different (bloody quantum), but the interactions between people are absolutely real and utterly convincing.
I guess I'm saying that I prefer a few hooks of realism to hang the rest of the world on.
I actually have been bothered a bit about the education of those Hogwart's kids. For goodness' sake, those poor kids need math and some sex education! Their lack of non-magic education kind of makes sense though, seeing how most in the wizarding world seem to be alarmingly ignorant of the rest of the world and the unmagical society.
If it follows exact laws of physics we are subjected to right now then can we call it a fantasy? No, in that case it could be called realty.
Anyway, magic can do anything! (In a fantasy world)
Weight of coins can be nullfied or raise dead, levitate you name it.
However balance needed. If magic can solve everything then fun will goes away.
In short, I do not bothered at all, if I wanted exact physics o' law then i'd watch national geographic or discovery channel instead.
- "An author's ability to solve conflict satisfactorily with magic is directly proportional to how well the reader understands said magic." (07:20min)
- Really a foreshadowing law
- "Limitations > Powers" (26:14min)
- Flaws are more interesting than powers
- "Expand what you already have before you add something new." (41:40min)
- Go deeper into a magic before you go wider
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on the emotional impact you are going for
- Sense of wonder vs clever problem solving
- Storytelling generally revolves around what characters have trouble doing, so this is no exception
- World build with this in mind
- Limitations are on the scope of the magic; flaws are the ways the magic fails
- A few number of things well explored creates a more interesting world than a large number of things shallowly explored
- Explore ramifications / tie world building into your magic
Attire on the other hand is a wholly different beast to tackle. One has not only to consider whenever the equipment in question is protective for it to be labeled as realistic. But the environment, weather and its purpose as well.
For instance:
- Wearing heavy metal armor or thick fur clothes in the Sahara would be just as unrealistic as donning up nothing but a loincloth in eastern Greenland. Hypothermia and hyperthermia are surely to strike you down even before encountering a single monster.
- Wearing clothes which are easy to get soaken when traveling through marshlands, swamps and tropical jungles is an easy way to catch diseases. Especially when on long journeys where dry spare clothings aren't available.
- Going on aquatic adventures with swords in hand would make as little sense as fishing with a saw. The water flow would rend any slashing weapons useless here. Piercing polearms is what such folks need to get the job done.
- To successfully sneak, armor requires to be silent. Meaning no metal, and more cloth than leather... if any. Lest the ambush ends in deadly failure.
Of course, one could endlessly extent that list with realism in mind. Such as full plate armor will burn the wearer when hit by fire and electricity spells. Or cause frostbite when hit by frost spells. You get the drift.I am glad @BelleSorciere mentioned GURPS--now there is a game system where you can let realism bog you down if you delve too deeply. If your character has a ST of 12 and you are at your max for being in the "moderate" encumbered state and you pick up one more small item you are now in the "heavy" state, which will lower your move by 1 and increase your fatigue penalty by 1 during combat, as well. Good luck. Also, your opponent swings at your leg with an axe and does 5 cutting damage, reduced by 2 for the leather armor you are wearing, so actual damage is now 5 (because cutting does 1.5x damage after DR); your HT is 10 so you have to roll versus HT--you rolled an 11 so now your leg is crippled until you can get a healer to fix it, reduce your move by 3. Oh, and since that 5 dmg >= half your HT roll versus HT again to see if you are stunned for a combat round. *yeesh*
I mean, the term "realism" is already debatable. For a lot of people realism refers to the lack of magical elements. For others it means having the characters and elements in the story react to one another in a realistic way. And more.
Wether or not the world the story takes place in follows rules that are obvious or even comprehensible to the observer has little to do with realism.
Things only annoy me when the world does present certain rules it follows and then it breaks them in a seemingly unintentional way (aka bad writing).
So to sum up, all things non-magic need to be realistic for me. Let the magic things be magic and let everything else be realistic.
Edit: I haven't read the books, but it seems GoT does just this to some extent, like someone also wrote above.
Michael Ende - Neverending Story
Thank you.
Guellermo Del Toro - Pan's Labyrinth
Yes, magical realism is indeed a real thing.
Pan's Labyrinth doesn't have that in it's fantasy aspects. If there are clear cut rules to the fantasy aspects they are deliberately kept a mystery, ergo not realism.
What you are refering to is low vs. high fantasy.
Low fantasy: Fantastical elements implemented in a real world setting. (Harry Potter, Pan's Labyrinth, etc.)
High fantasy: The entire world is fictional. (Lord of the Rings, Forgotten Realms, etc.)
(To go by the literary understanding of the genres. I also want to appologize in advance if I misphrased that.)
No. When I spoke of magical realism, I actually meant magical realism. This kind of narrative fiction can both be used in real world settings, as well as purely fictional mundane worlds. There is no set limitation (that I know of, at least) in that regard of how to use this story writing tool. In other words, magical realism (just like hard fantasy), has visible rules that indeed mirror those of the real world. (And then some which deal with imaginary physic laws that covern over magic.)
The main difference between low and high fantasy is the level of magic implemented. Meaning a low fantasy world is, first and foremost, a rational and familiar fictional world. It may be based on the real world's middle ages or modern era, or whatever other time flows the author in the boat. Or it may as well be fictional without being based on Earth.
Possibly biased by wonky option choices. (Trump101 - always blame the pollsters... unless they agree with you of course)
Need more data...
Which I mean doesn't mean it's wrong or anything, just that it tends to complicate things.