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[Fan thoery] The truth about Imoen

ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
in Archive (General Discussion)
Related to the discussion in the Imoen plothole thread, let me try to answer this once and for all.
Imoen is actually a figment of charnames psyche, and is not real at all.

First off, she only appears after periods of great trauma or stress for charname:

First after being badly attacked and watching his foster father die after leaving candlekeep.
Next after being captured and brutally tortured by Irenicus
Finally, after having his very soul removed.

In bg1 charname imagines her as a constant companion because thought of a return home to candlekeep are a constant companion, and she reminds him of this. Note that sarevok or gorion never mention anything about another bhaalspawn

Ch1 of bg2: "Imoen" releases charname from his cell, although she has been badly tortured and traumatised. Irenicus wanted charname to give in to bhaal, and become consumed so he could gain a better understanding of his powers. The frayed state of Imoen represents the frayed state of his humanity. Be she still remains, which means the process is not complete. However, it has already begun, and as the dream sequences later on indicate, charname already feels the temptation of the darker path.

Her role in ch2-4 in bg2 is that of a metaphor for the discovery of charnames bhaal essence, and the loss of his humanity (imoen) as he journeys to find it. The revelation about his heritage is what makes him feel as if his humanity is lost.

Bodhi is supposedly the recipient of her divine soul, but conspicuously never exibits any bhaal-style powers, unlike Irenicus with your soul. She even runs away from you the first time you turn into the slayer.

When Imoen reappears, she is no longer her invulnerable self as before - she now represents charnames dawning realisation of his own mortality. Imoen rejoins the party - representing that he has now found his humanity - however charname is stripped of his soul (the belt keeping her alive)

She appears to him in visions and dreams as a very aspect of bhaal - now this is charname coming to terms that his humanity is no longer what definies him - is was his bhaal essence all along.

------------------------
I have a few theories about some of the other NPC's as well but they can wait for another day.
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Comments

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    I like that! Well, jungian psychology is basically about the power that 'archetypes' represent to us.

    A character like Imoen could represent many important sides of your own nature - a female side, your inner child, your humanity , your vulnerability ...

    This is one of the reasons that BG is such an unforgettable game, the characters are realistic and inspiring!
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    nice theory and it totally works for Charname's BGII dreams... except that other NPCs interact with her as well.
  • recklessheartrecklessheart Member Posts: 692
    I must say I do love the thought put into this - a very interesting read and I did like the interpretation. Though admittedly I only like the interpretation because it is, of course, not true. It's a fun way of looking at it as long as you're only looking at it in such a way to amuse yourself.

    Realistically, this cannot be the case. Others interact with her; Sarevok & Solar both legitimately acknowledge her Bhaal essence to be separate from that of the protagonist; AND (super interestingly) she starts to develop the special ability Bhaal powers that the protagonist has in BG1 if you keep her around for a long time through ToB.
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    But the fact that other NPCs in your group also see and talk to Imoen invalidates this theory.

    If you have jaheira in your spellhold group, and refuse Imoen into your party, Jaheira will say how she would have rather had you remove her from the group than Imoen.
  • ElzarathElzarath Member Posts: 173
    Nice story. The theory only works for BG I though. This is because she's a last minute character made up of recycled lines, which is why there's minimal or no NPC interaction with her eg Gorion, Saverok.

    Her and Saverok have a bit of banter at the start of ToB but that's cause she's become an 'actual' NPC by BG II.
  • KaxonKaxon Member Posts: 156
    recklessheart said:

    Realistically, this cannot be the case. Others interact with her; Sarevok & Solar both legitimately acknowledge her Bhaal essence to be separate from that of the protagonist; AND (super interestingly) she starts to develop the special ability Bhaal powers that the protagonist has in BG1 if you keep her around for a long time through ToB.

    ...And you believed that stuff about Sarevok appearing out of nowhere and coming back to life? :P

    Imoen obviously represents the main character's human, good side, while Sarevok represents your Bhaal essence. Also, that would explain why Imoen hardly interacts with the other party members.


    (Okay, not really, but it's a cool idea.)
  • ARKdeEREHARKdeEREH Member Posts: 531
    Reminds me of the movie "Fight Club."
  • ZaorZaor Member Posts: 69
    deltago said:

    nice theory and it totally works for Charname's BGII dreams... except that other NPCs interact with her as well.

    Other NPCs interact with Boo too. Does that mean that they all believe that Boo is a sentient miniature giant space hamster? Why can they interact with minsc's imaginary friend but not ours?
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    And what about the time you meet her in front of Gorion in Candlekeep? Or the Tutorial in BG2? :p
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    theJoshFrost said:

    So now Baldur's Gate is Shutter Island?


    Spellhold is "the" Shutter Island ... ;-)
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,861
    Nooooooo! Imoen is real! She's real I tell you. I can't just have imagined her?

    If she's not real my whole life is meaningless.
  • SeldarSeldar Member Posts: 438
    It's interesting but I don't believe that Imoen is a part of Charname. Many people talk to her in BG2 and there are no banters between charname and other characters about that theory.
  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    Mind = blown.
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    Kudos for the imagination of @ajwz. I'd always thought she was a late-add-on, ill-conceived and inconsistently applied in the BG2 tale. This is because, when CHARNAME takes blows to the head, Imoen changes. "Say hello to my invisible friend."

    It works great until imaginary girl backstabs some fool that isn't keeping his eyes peeled on the battle field. Short sword of back-stabbing feels pretty dang real to that enemy!

    Unless - another possibility. CHARNAME can kill people with his mind.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    It would make sense, Charname's father IS the god of Murder, after all.
  • salierisalieri Member Posts: 245
    What? No. With all due respect, I can't understand all the "hmmm, this kinda makes sense" comments. It doesn't. At all. Aside from the fact that other characters interact with Imoen, she's also capable of having an independent impact on the gameworld- killng enemies, sneaking into buildings by herself and stealing items for the party . Even though you may be able to find a few examples of how the theory MIGHT work, I don't see any reason at all not to believe the default assumption of her being an actual character.
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    salieri said:

    What? No. With all due respect, I can't understand all the "hmmm, this kinda makes sense" comments. It doesn't. At all. Aside from the fact that other characters interact with Imoen, she's also capable of having an independent impact on the gameworld- killng enemies, sneaking into buildings by herself and stealing items for the party . Even though you may be able to find a few examples of how the theory MIGHT work, I don't see any reason at all not to believe the default assumption of her being an actual character.

    Once you accept that the Charname's perception of reality is not accurate, it opens up any number of possibilities (Charname actually does what Imoen does himself and only sees it as Imoen; Charname does it magically through unconscious exercising of his/her Bhaalessence; etc.). That said, I don't think this is meant to be taken seriously as in this was the interpretation of the writers of the game.

    I enjoyed the cleverness of the post. Kudos @ajwz!
  • SecriaSecria Member Posts: 85
    Maybe the entire saga is just a dream of someone who's gone completely insane and eating bugs off the floor in a cell.
  • styggastygga Member Posts: 467
    Maybe it's all just a video game and we've been playing it for fourteen years.. MIND BLOWN!!
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    I would love to reduce Imoen to characterisation or self-externalisation of the bipolar and entropic god child that had a few difficulties growing up towards immortalisation. Angst ridden, without any clue to a restorative approach to relationships thrust upon a sedimentary layer of frustration. To say that Imoen 'just appeared' due to the psychotic spasm of the grey matter, is as far as I am concerned, about as likely as a three-way manifold time flap, flipping the whole idea on its proverbial head, and Imoen actually being the character name in question. In the spiky kernel of the chestnut, the world has been misguided into thinking that a whole tree of ideas will suddenly emerge from picking on the unattainable truth that is Imoen. We can ponder, slack jawed and dewy eyed all day over these subtleties, yet we would be misleading ourselves that only lies we would ever encourage to sprout fourth and multiply, much like an overly fed gremlin taken for a shower at midnight. Perhaps a flowering of thought may produce a pleasant meadow for our thoughts of Imoen to walk upon, yet would these thoughts impact on the real world we see around us? Yet we can all pass judgement on our thoughts to discover and enlighten upon a hidden truth. That truth will become clear to see. In fact the truth is here. In front of you. Just THERE. See?
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    Fun and creative thinking, enjoyed the journey. But as others have pointed out in this thread, in terms of game mechanics Imoen interacts with others, not just CHARNAME. Are those interactions hallucinated by CHARNAME as well? Not to get carried away here as it's just a computer game to begin with, but if we regard the game engine as equivalent to objective reality Imoen can and does exist outside of CHARNAME's perception, still interacting with others, etc.
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    AHF said:

    Once you accept that the Charname's perception of reality is not accurate, it opens up any number of possibilities (Charname actually does what Imoen does himself and only sees it as Imoen; Charname does it magically through unconscious exercising of his/her Bhaalessence; etc.). That said, I don't think this is meant to be taken seriously as in this was the interpretation of the writers of the game.

    Baldur's Gate: Solipsistic Edition
  • KirkorKirkor Member Posts: 700
    theJoshFrost said:

    So now Baldur's Gate is Shutter Island?

    Yep. And as soon as CHARNAME realizes that, he wakes up in modern world sanitarium. Then his son (that he forgot about) comes to rescue him together with governor of California and they fight against robot sent from the future by internet.

    But more seriously:
    @ajwz you also meet Imoen in Candlekeep. How you explain that?
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Zaor said:

    deltago said:

    nice theory and it totally works for Charname's BGII dreams... except that other NPCs interact with her as well.

    Other NPCs interact with Boo too. Does that mean that they all believe that Boo is a sentient miniature giant space hamster? Why can they interact with minsc's imaginary friend but not ours?
    Boo Imaginary?! He is't imaginary at all! He's there, squeeking away in one of Minsc's quick slots. They may not believe he is a giant space hamster, but they do believe he is a hamster, or some other edible furry creature.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    Hey I resent that. I said yes, I even gave a reason why Charname could be the one doing the killings attributed to Imoen ;)
  • KirkorKirkor Member Posts: 700
    belgarathmth said:

    LOL. The people who hang out on this forum should never become improvisational actors, myself included. The first rule of improv is: "the answer is always yes."

    This thread was an invitation to do a cool little exercise in improvisational acting and thinking, I do believe. Most of us here just never seem to be able to join the party of improvisational roleplaying. We always seem to want to take it seriously and start debating. Our answer always seems to be "No".

    No! You are wrong!
    I mean... YES! You are wrong!
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    Who cast a confusion spell in this thread? :)
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    What happens if you don't say yes or no, but say henry?
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