I enjoyed the original games - have various version on cds, dvds etc. Im glad that the Enhanced Editions exist - yes i know i can simply mod the original games etc - which i have done in the past but now im at the stage in my life where im happy someone has put together a package where i dont have to bother will all that, i can just click play and im happy to lose myself in another world for x amount of hours.
Im glad they have released all the games they have, and im happy to continue supporting them and long may they continue making theses type of games.
The OP is right, nowadays it is either instant gratification or instant pitchforks - thats the world we live in now due to the internet, where a lot of people tend to be polarized one way or other with any issue you can think of, then they can comment, like, share on social media, set up forums and post on reddit etc to continue there venting and crusades.
I just ignore all that stuff and look to the game. Is it a style of game i like?, Is it within my budget?, will i have time to play it? (long backlog of steam games and other platforms), has it got good reviews?. With the EE games there is an extra nostalgia factor and my own lazyness factor (mentioned above) that also i take into account when deciding to purchase a game.
Life is too short and there is so much craziness in the world. So just enjoy these games if you can.
I enjoyed the original games - have various version on cds, dvds etc. Im glad that the Enhanced Editions exist - yes i know i can simply mod the original games etc - which i have done in the past but now im at the stage in my life where im happy someone has put together a package where i dont have to bother will all that, i can just click play and im happy to lose myself in another world for x amount of hours.
Im glad they have released all the games they have, and im happy to continue supporting them and long may they continue making theses type of games.
The OP is right, nowadays it is either instant gratification or instant pitchforks - thats the world we live in now due to the internet, where a lot of people tend to be polarized one way or other with any issue you can think of, then they can comment, like, share on social media, set up forums and post on reddit etc to continue there venting and crusades.
I just ignore all that stuff and look to the game. Is it a style of game i like?, Is it within my budget?, will i have time to play it? (long backlog of steam games and other platforms), has it got good reviews?. With the EE games there is an extra nostalgia factor and my own lazyness factor (mentioned above) that also i take into account when deciding to purchase a game.
Life is too short and there is so much craziness in the world. So just enjoy these games if you can.
I totally agree with this sentiment. I thoroughly enjoyed modding my games to the max 10 years ago and also had the patience back then to deal with all of the inevitable crashes and bugs. Situations change though and its really nice to have a (mostly) bug-free game that actually works on Windows 10 without any effort on my part. I never played Torment before so I'm really looking forward to giving it a go with updated graphics and interface. Thank you Beamdog!
I do think, if they release PST:EE in the state that they released IWD2 in, you would shelf over money for it (unless it doesnt interest you).
I wouldn't blame you for not preordering though due to their track record or even wait for it to go on sale for the cheap. I personally was contempating waiting for the gog or steam to bundle it with Numenera but wanted in on my tablet soonish.
By the way, when people complain about "bugs" in video games in this day and age, I have to chuckle. Every video game ships with bugs. Some of the best games of all time, nearly EVERY Bethesda title, etc etc etc. Need I remind everyone that Baldur's Gate, when first released, was buggy as hell. And a few years before that, if you bought a game, that was just how it was going to be for you, bugs or not. Be thankful we live in a time where developers are constantly issuing patches and fixes to move their games to something close to a flawless state, and that we have that ability at our fingertips in seconds. This stuff used to require a gargantuan effort to even track down if it existed at all.
By the way, when people complain about "bugs" in video games in this day and age, I have to chuckle. Every video game ships with bugs. Some of the best games of all time, nearly EVERY Bethesda title, etc etc etc. Need I remind everyone that Baldur's Gate, when first released, was buggy as hell. And a few years before that, if you bought a game, that was just how it was going to be for you, bugs or not. Be thankful we live in a time where developers are constantly issuing patches and fixes to move their games to something close to a flawless state, and that we have that ability at our fingertips in seconds. This stuff used to require a gargantuan effort to even track down if it existed at all.
I get what your saying about patches. I remember Jowood released a game called chaser which needed to be patched to fix the installer! But considering how slow beamdog has been in releasing patches it's pretty ridiculous they expect people to pre order future releases when current ones aren't getting the attention they deserve.
Sorry, @shawne but your argument just doesn't hold water. When someone says that Beamdog is "stealing" other people's work, that can be challenged. When someone says Beamdog's EEs are no more than the original games + mods, that can be challenged. Much of what the haters are saying is outright false, and one doesn't have to be a defender of Beamdog's work or a fanboy to stand against lies.
Of course not - all I'm pointing out is that very few people who aren't already fans are going to go out of their way to do so. Beamdog hasn't earned that kind of trust or goodwill (as opposed to, say, Obsidian or Harebrained Schemes).
I do think, if they release PST:EE in the state that they released IWD2 in, you would shelf over money for it (unless it doesnt interest you).
I wouldn't blame you for not preordering though due to their track record or even wait for it to go on sale for the cheap. I personally was contempating waiting for the gog or steam to bundle it with Numenera but wanted in on my tablet soonish.
Literally my first comment when the news broke was "Wake me in six months when/if they sort the bugs." I'm not opposed to the idea of the greatest RPG ever made getting an Enhanced Edition - but I'm not going to be waving my pompoms for a dev team that could charitably be described as always taking the easiest/laziest path with its various releases.
By the way, when people complain about "bugs" in video games in this day and age, I have to chuckle. Every video game ships with bugs. Some of the best games of all time, nearly EVERY Bethesda title, etc etc etc. Need I remind everyone that Baldur's Gate, when first released, was buggy as hell. And a few years before that, if you bought a game, that was just how it was going to be for you, bugs or not. Be thankful we live in a time where developers are constantly issuing patches and fixes to move their games to something close to a flawless state, and that we have that ability at our fingertips in seconds. This stuff used to require a gargantuan effort to even track down if it existed at all.
I mean... this is Fanboyism, Exhibit A. The state of affairs fifteen or twenty years ago is completely irrelevant to what's expected today - especially when you yourself point out that the current standard is consistent maintenance. Why should Beamdog be exempt from that? Why are we supposed to be "grateful" that they set up bug trackers and public betas and then don't patch their games for months at a time?
Uh I wouldn't use Bethesda as a good example of patching here. Fallout 3 received all of it's patches in less than a year then got nothing even though many of the bugs remained. The console versions recieved very little in terms of patches and the PS3 version is notorious for being well almost unplayable. If Beamdog followed Bethesdas example you would have had the most barebone support and then it would have been dumped for the next game and left for the community to fix "everything". Also keep in mind that Beamdog are not working with an inhouse engine that they know intimately. Every step has been a learning experience and it shows with the quality of every new patch or release.
The fact that beamdog is actually still commited to supporting these games this far is pretty unheard of for a single player rpg rerelease. How many patches has the EE version recieved compared to the original release?
Also for all the mess of Fallout 3 it still recieved Game of the Year and very high critical acclaim. The bugs and terrible support hardly held it back. Even today some people find it unplayable on PC due to the nonesense Games for Windows Live inclusion.
So well I could say critism is all well and good but giving credit where credit is due can't hurt can it?
With all this talk of 'fanboyism', I confess I had to look it up, and one definition suggests it means exhibiting behaviour that is blind, aggressive devotion.
As far as I'm concerned, I've spent (what is for me) a very small amount of money over several years on several games from Beamdog, and to a greater or lesser extent I'm still playing all of them to this day.
So for me, Beamdog have provided lots of fun for not very much money.
Fanboy or not, it means I'm a happy Beamdog customer!
I've played over 200 hrs of the Baldur's Gate EE games in the last two years and ran into one bug where a NPC didn't show up in the government district, which it did the next time after loading a save.
I've played over 200 hrs of the Baldur's Gate EE games in the last two years and ran into one bug where a NPC didn't show up in the government district, which it did the next time after loading a save.
Guess you haven't dabbled much in to multiplayer that's horrible at times.
I've played over 200 hrs of the Baldur's Gate EE games in the last two years and ran into one bug where a NPC didn't show up in the government district, which it did the next time after loading a save.
Guess you haven't dabbled much in to multiplayer that's horrible at times.
I've played a lot of multiplayer, and, honestly, I never had much trouble besides lag (at least after 1.3), and weird dialog problems that can't be replicated. Which both were in the original, if you could make it run.
After looking through numerous comments on Youtube, Steam and other Internet sites I'd like to point out one thing.
A moderation team is fine with seeing constructive discussions about Beamdog products, when users express their opinions without insulting other people and groups of them, without looking for fights with other users and trolling.
Every user can share their views on our games, patches, changes etc, etc. But in doing so, users should act according to the rules of the site they're commenting at.
Quite often when a person is expressing some negative feedback a situation quickly escalates to flaming, and this is completely not okay. Violations can happen on both sides, and no matter the "side" of a person who is commenting, the approach of the moderation team will be the same - to warn and in certain cases to ban a perpetrator.
This forum has always been the place where people try to participate in most heated arguments in a respectful way. When users start doing otherwise, moderators intefere and calm down the conflict. Unfortunately, other Internet sites don't always offer the same level of respect and support to users.
The coordinated tanking of the review scores is almost a certainty, and once again, it will mostly be people who not only haven't played THIS version, but ANY version of Planescape: Torment. I remarked back at the time that the amount of reviews submitted on Metacritic and other sites was wholly out of proportion with the actual interest in the game. It received more reviews on Metacritic than the first Fallout 4 expansion. It had nearly as many on GOG as did Pillars of Eternity, which had already been out for a year.
Yeah, the majority of reviews were likely people who had ~issues~ with one of the NPCs. I mean if you compare review scores on GOG and Metacritic (where you don't have to own the game to review it) to reviews on Steam (which does require you to own the game to review it, and the reviews are "mostly positive" there).
Yeah, the majority of reviews were likely people who had ~issues~ with one of the NPCs. I mean if you compare review scores on GOG and Metacritic (where you don't have to own the game to review it) to reviews on Steam (which does require you to own the game to review it, and the reviews are "mostly positive" there).
Yeah the one npc... forget about the poor writing the mediocre fights what went for the more is harder style gameplay and how many of that beamdog team are still on board. Some people are easily pleased while others aren't. The best thing beamdog has done with PST is highlighted they haven't messed about with the written content that's probably there saving grace.
the mediocre fights what went for the more is harder style gameplay
Well, when you are on a war campaign, that's actually a good thing that there is a lot of enemies for each fight. It makes conceptual sense. I actually think that gameplay is where SoD shines the most. The fights are much more refined than in IWD, a game also filled with lots of enemies.
It's actually true... Most bad reviews (not all though, some are fair) keep coming back to that single point. They are also the most aggressive. That should tell you something...
Actually, I just got to a point where I'm tired of these arguments. Can't we just act like adults ? If somebody doesn't like the decisions made by Beamdog, that's OK, just don't buy their stuff...
"Can't we just act like adults ? If somebody doesn't like the decisions made by Beamdog, that's OK, just don't buy their stuff..."
There is nothing adult about disallowing or discouraging criticism. It's perfectly okay to talk about things we don't like in the game. Some critical opinions are not as valid as others, of course.
I agree, however, that SoD writing isn't terrible, and I'm pretty convinced that nostalgia makes people consider writing of BG1 and BG2 better than it really is.
There is nothing adult about disallowing or discouraging criticism. It's perfectly okay to talk about things we don't like in the game. Some critical opinions are not as valid as others, of course.
Maybe I didn't phrase what I meant really well. I by no mean want to discourage critics and discussions, more the hammering of the same arguments over and over again, mainly over points where the different "camps" won't budge an inch on their respective positions... If we could actually get over that "camp" logic and just speak about these things in level headed and mature way, I would gladly go on speaking about various points of SoD (which is not perfect, but nowhere near as bad as some people made it out to be).
With the release of PSTEE, maybe I got too caught up in the drama... I'll leave these discussions for a while, and maybe come back to it later, when the dust will settle a bit more.
Hopefully with the team reshuffle it's a step in the right direction and it shows they are prepared to set right the previous wrongs. Just hope they don't mess up again.
If that was your point @Arctodus, then I totally agree. Sometimes it feels for me that people treat video games waaaay too seriously, as if presence of Mizhena in the camp was samehow personal insult - or, on the other side, as if any criticism towards the game was forcing you to stop liking it I don't know the reason for that and that phenomena really baffles me.
I'm just going to say this: the folks who lost their jobs last summer were great people and talented developers. If no one else is going to stick up for them, I will: the "shuffle" had nothing to do with people's performance, and everything to do with budget.
I say that on behalf of the other people who suddenly and painfully found themselves without work after pouring their hearts into these beloved franchises. Stop making these people into scapegoats for whatever frustrations you may be feeling. It's not their fault.
"Can't we just act like adults ? If somebody doesn't like the decisions made by Beamdog, that's OK, just don't buy their stuff..."
There is nothing adult about disallowing or discouraging criticism. It's perfectly okay to talk about things we don't like in the game. Some critical opinions are not as valid as others, of course.
I agree, however, that SoD writing isn't terrible, and I'm pretty convinced that nostalgia makes people consider writing of BG1 and BG2 better than it really is.
Not saying people have to agree with Gaider on this and it isn't the first time I've seen a writer revisit his earlier work and found it wanting(fans disagreeing) But it's an interesting post and seeing developers comment on their past work is always interesting imo.
As for vanilla BG1 I think the npc writing, if you can even call it that, is ridiculously thin and weak. If anything I would call it good character profiles with ''potential'' That's why the npc project exists I guess, but at the end of the day that is fan written content and shouldn't really be included when evaluating the vanilla game. So basically if bg1 released today with mostly ''mute'' npcs, I'm not sure how I would react to it... And I certainly hope purists don't go around lauding BG1 for it's fantastic npcs, because for me that feels sketchy...
At the same time I don't believe it wasn't beamdogs job to try and fix what seemed like sexist caricatures from bg1 either. Like the oddness of Eldoth being excluded altogether, since he could have been used in conjunction for Skies character development or I don't know ''something'' lol... I'm too lazy to continue that train of thought. I mainly mentioned Eldoth since he's the most noticeable, given his personality and all.
I'm just going to say this: the folks who lost their jobs last summer were great people and talented developers. If no one else is going to stick up for them, I will: the "shuffle" had nothing to do with people's performance, and everything to do with budget.
I say that on behalf of the other people who suddenly and painfully found themselves without work after pouring their hearts into these beloved franchises. Stop making these people into scapegoats for whatever frustrations you may be feeling. It's not their fault.
People's performance often involves and has a reflection on budget. If an amazing product had been released sales would of been higher which normally triggers bonus and contract extensions. Sub par performance often ends in disciplinary action of some sort. It's how business works. I have to manage people on a daily basis if they don't perform they don't pass the 12 week review. If they pass they still get daily targets and have to be reviewed daily. It's how business works and at the end of the day I'm not at work to make friends. Sounds harsh but I have my own bills to pay and I want my bonus at the end of the year.
Cool story. My point still stands. I'm not just saying "they're people," I'm saying "they're people who were really good at their jobs."
Feel free to disagree, but I'm telling you as someone who worked with all of them, who spent a good amount of time reviewing their work. They were strong contributors to the team.
Everything you loved about SoD's areas was because of Mad. Everything you loved about the trailers was because of Alex. If you think these people were let go because their performance was sub par... you're just plain incorrect.
You really need look no farther than the recent attacks on a female programmer at Bioware when the Gamegate brigade seemed to be convinced something they didn't like about the graphics in Mass Effect: Andromeda was her fault. The Siege controversy was simply another skirmish in that fight. If the online sociopaths are mad at you, you're probably doing things the right way.
Yeah, the majority of reviews were likely people who had ~issues~ with one of the NPCs. I mean if you compare review scores on GOG and Metacritic (where you don't have to own the game to review it) to reviews on Steam (which does require you to own the game to review it, and the reviews are "mostly positive" there).
Yeah the one npc... forget about the poor writing the mediocre fights what went for the more is harder style gameplay and how many of that beamdog team are still on board. Some people are easily pleased while others aren't. The best thing beamdog has done with PST is highlighted they haven't messed about with the written content that's probably there saving grace.
There must be some reason that the review sites that allow anyone to review have far more negative reviews than the site that requires you to own the game. Why does Steam have "Mostly Positive" where you have to own the game in order to review it in the first place, but Metacritic and GOG, which don't require product ownership, shows more negative reviews?
While you're entitled to your opinion, I don't think it's all that well supported in the realm of facts. Which is to say, it seems that more people who own the DLC like it than hate it.
Comments
Im glad they have released all the games they have, and im happy to continue supporting them and long may they continue making theses type of games.
The OP is right, nowadays it is either instant gratification or instant pitchforks - thats the world we live in now due to the internet, where a lot of people tend to be polarized one way or other with any issue you can think of, then they can comment, like, share on social media, set up forums and post on reddit etc to continue there venting and crusades.
I just ignore all that stuff and look to the game. Is it a style of game i like?, Is it within my budget?, will i have time to play it? (long backlog of steam games and other platforms), has it got good reviews?.
With the EE games there is an extra nostalgia factor and my own lazyness factor (mentioned above) that also i take into account when deciding to purchase a game.
Life is too short and there is so much craziness in the world. So just enjoy these games if you can.
I do think, if they release PST:EE in the state that they released IWD2 in, you would shelf over money for it (unless it doesnt interest you).
I wouldn't blame you for not preordering though due to their track record or even wait for it to go on sale for the cheap. I personally was contempating waiting for the gog or steam to bundle it with Numenera but wanted in on my tablet soonish.
The fact that beamdog is actually still commited to supporting these games this far is pretty unheard of for a single player rpg rerelease. How many patches has the EE version recieved compared to the original release?
Also for all the mess of Fallout 3 it still recieved Game of the Year and very high critical acclaim. The bugs and terrible support hardly held it back. Even today some people find it unplayable on PC due to the nonesense Games for Windows Live inclusion.
So well I could say critism is all well and good but giving credit where credit is due can't hurt can it?
As far as I'm concerned, I've spent (what is for me) a very small amount of money over several years on several games from Beamdog, and to a greater or lesser extent I'm still playing all of them to this day.
So for me, Beamdog have provided lots of fun for not very much money.
Fanboy or not, it means I'm a happy Beamdog customer!
A moderation team is fine with seeing constructive discussions about Beamdog products, when users express their opinions without insulting other people and groups of them, without looking for fights with other users and trolling.
Every user can share their views on our games, patches, changes etc, etc. But in doing so, users should act according to the rules of the site they're commenting at.
Quite often when a person is expressing some negative feedback a situation quickly escalates to flaming, and this is completely not okay. Violations can happen on both sides, and no matter the "side" of a person who is commenting, the approach of the moderation team will be the same - to warn and in certain cases to ban a perpetrator.
This forum has always been the place where people try to participate in most heated arguments in a respectful way. When users start doing otherwise, moderators intefere and calm down the conflict. Unfortunately, other Internet sites don't always offer the same level of respect and support to users.
Actually, I just got to a point where I'm tired of these arguments. Can't we just act like adults ? If somebody doesn't like the decisions made by Beamdog, that's OK, just don't buy their stuff...
There is nothing adult about disallowing or discouraging criticism. It's perfectly okay to talk about things we don't like in the game. Some critical opinions are not as valid as others, of course.
I agree, however, that SoD writing isn't terrible, and I'm pretty convinced that nostalgia makes people consider writing of BG1 and BG2 better than it really is.
With the release of PSTEE, maybe I got too caught up in the drama... I'll leave these discussions for a while, and maybe come back to it later, when the dust will settle a bit more.
I don't know the reason for that and that phenomena really baffles me.
I say that on behalf of the other people who suddenly and painfully found themselves without work after pouring their hearts into these beloved franchises. Stop making these people into scapegoats for whatever frustrations you may be feeling. It's not their fault.
Not saying people have to agree with Gaider on this and it isn't the first time I've seen a writer revisit his earlier work and found it wanting(fans disagreeing) But it's an interesting post and seeing developers comment on their past work is always interesting imo.
As for vanilla BG1 I think the npc writing, if you can even call it that, is ridiculously thin and weak. If anything I would call it good character profiles with ''potential'' That's why the npc project exists I guess, but at the end of the day that is fan written content and shouldn't really be included when evaluating the vanilla game. So basically if bg1 released today with mostly ''mute'' npcs, I'm not sure how I would react to it... And I certainly hope purists don't go around lauding BG1 for it's fantastic npcs, because for me that feels sketchy...
At the same time I don't believe it wasn't beamdogs job to try and fix what seemed like sexist caricatures from bg1 either. Like the oddness of Eldoth being excluded altogether, since he could have been used in conjunction for Skies character development or I don't know ''something'' lol... I'm too lazy to continue that train of thought. I mainly mentioned Eldoth since he's the most noticeable, given his personality and all.
Feel free to disagree, but I'm telling you as someone who worked with all of them, who spent a good amount of time reviewing their work. They were strong contributors to the team.
Everything you loved about SoD's areas was because of Mad. Everything you loved about the trailers was because of Alex. If you think these people were let go because their performance was sub par... you're just plain incorrect.
While you're entitled to your opinion, I don't think it's all that well supported in the realm of facts. Which is to say, it seems that more people who own the DLC like it than hate it.