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Getting sick of the Beamdog bashing in the wake of PST:EE

PekingduckmanPekingduckman Member Posts: 151
I made the mistake of visiting Youtube and the Steam forums after the announcement of PST:EE, and like always, the amount of bile and idiocy astounds me. Besides the usual suspects accusing Beamdog of adding "SJW" content, there are also the people who still have the impression that the EE simply consists of the base game + HD mod + fixpack. One guy on the Steam forums even threw a tantrum because Black Isle, a long dead studio, wasn't apparently credited, despite being proven wrong several times, and went on a rampage across several websites, calling Beamdog "the parasite of the industry".

It seems that in recent years, the gaming community has became so polarized that constructive criticism don't exist anymore. Even the slightest apparent wrong need to be responded with personal attacks, and worse, harassment against developers. In the past decades, I've played my fair share of disappointing or downright horrible games, and I generally move on, or in special cases where I think they can be improved, offer suggestions. Sadly in this day and age, there needs to be instant gratification, and a long list of constructive critiques mean little when someone can just tell the devs to "go fuck themselves" on Twitter.

In this mess, people don't seem to get that there are multiple audiences and markets besides their own. If they don't think that PST:EE is worth the money and they're happy with the mods, more power to them. The release of the EE isn't going to magically erase the original PST from their hard drives. In contrast, as a veteran of the game, I'm happy that this game is being rereleased for a new generation, and that I don't need to install numerous mods over and over again to get the game working.
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Comments

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    The problem, of course, is that Beamdog's track record makes it very difficult to defend them without resorting to fanboyism (which is just as unhelpful to the discourse as the nonsense currently making the rounds). They're being castigated for the wrong things, but that doesn't validate their past and continuing failures. They still release bug-ridden games, they still take months or years to support those games, they're still terrible at communicating with their fanbase. If that weren't the case, there'd be a stronger counter to all the misinformation out there.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Arctodus said:

    I don't know... I often hear this criticism, but frankly, that's not true from my experience. There are some bugs, but very minor ones which doesn't break the game. I don't know if I'm generally lucky or what, but saying bug-ridden seems to me an exaggeration.

    BG:EE was a mess at launch. BG2:EE was worse. They acknowledge this every time they're at PAX. It took them months to deal with real game-breakers, some of which were all the more egregious for being related to content they themselves introduced to the game. I'm pretty sure Hexxat's ToB quest is still broken.

    Now, maybe you were lucky and got into the EEs at a later point, when the major issues were more or less resolved. More power to you, but that doesn't change the facts (which you can look up for yourself right here on this forum).

    With that track record, it'd be extremely naive to think that Beamdog would get a positive reception without doing much to earn it.
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 992
    edited April 2017
    Yep, it's true that I went in the EEs late, because I generally do so when I buy a software. I remember reading this whole bugginess thing through reviews. At least, the EEs at 2.3 are quite stable, now. That's something one has to admit.

    I acknowledge too that they seem to release updates at a slow pace. Probably due to the fact that they're a small team working on many things at the same time. It's not an excuse, however.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the PSTEE launch would not be as bad, though, because Beamdog has more experience now and they seem to have introduced much less new content. It's a more low key release, I have the feeling, which is actually a good thing for PST. Anyway, we'll see.
    Post edited by Arctodus on
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 523
    Yes, Beamdog needs more releases like IWD:EE to enhance their credibility. I have a feeling (hope?) that PST:EE will have a stable launch that will be appreciated by all but the turdiest.

    Once PST:EE is in the can, they can focus on delivering an original D&D 5e experience and continuing to polish the old IE gems.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    bleusteel said:

    Yes, Beamdog needs more releases like IWD:EE to enhance their credibility.

    You mean the game that's a whole version number and engine rehaul behind the rest? The one that hasn't been patched since 2015? That IWD:EE?
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    shawne said:

    bleusteel said:

    Yes, Beamdog needs more releases like IWD:EE to enhance their credibility.

    You mean the game that's a whole version number and engine rehaul behind the rest? The one that hasn't been patched since 2015? That IWD:EE?
    IWD:EE is a lot closer to 2.0 than people think. A lot of the bug fixes and behind the scenes improvements are included. The only thing really missing is the updated UI (which has been a big base breaker) and the new classes.

    I must be really lucky then, because I got BG:EE at launch and had less issues than when I played the original.
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 523
    shawne said:

    bleusteel said:

    Yes, Beamdog needs more releases like IWD:EE to enhance their credibility.

    You mean the game that's a whole version number and engine rehaul behind the rest? The one that hasn't been patched since 2015? That IWD:EE?
    Yep.

    I was referring to the state in which the game dropped. They'll get around to further enhancing it, I have little doubt.

    If PST:EE shares a similar trouble-free release, I hope the trollier amongst us will cut Beamdog some slack.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited April 2017

    The entire point of Beamdog's enterprise here is to make the games palpable for playing on modern systems (at higher graphical quality) without having to mod the crap out of the game or do 45 minutes of workarounds to get them work. For alot of people (especially the vast majority of people who play games who have no clue what modding even is) that is more than enough and worth a $20 bill.

    And that's pretty much the mindset that led to Beamdog's current reputation. If their fans are willing to settle for them barely being competent, that's their business; but they can't then complain that the "vast majority" have somewhat higher standards of quality. People who have no clue what modding is also won't care about Beamdog's legacy or the history of BG; they expect a game that doesn't crash randomly or spout looping dialogue or freeze during cutscenes.
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    shawne said:

    bleusteel said:

    Yes, Beamdog needs more releases like IWD:EE to enhance their credibility.

    You mean the game that's a whole version number and engine rehaul behind the rest? The one that hasn't been patched since 2015? That IWD:EE?
    So it's not good enough if they release buggy games but it's also not good enough if they release a much less buggy game. It's not good enough if they patch the bugs, but not patching is also a point of contention. Admittedly, I'm disappointed that they haven't patched IWD:EE up to the same version level as BG and BG2, but at least I can acknowledge where they've done good as well as bad.

    What exactly can Beamdog do, exactly, that you won't find fault with?

    Also: For some reason I got spam-blocked for posting 3 times within 60 seconds. I am pretty sure my previous post was more than 60 seconds prior to this one, and I have definitely not posted three times in 60 seconds.
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  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    shawne said:

    The entire point of Beamdog's enterprise here is to make the games palpable for playing on modern systems (at higher graphical quality) without having to mod the crap out of the game or do 45 minutes of workarounds to get them work. For alot of people (especially the vast majority of people who play games who have no clue what modding even is) that is more than enough and worth a $20 bill.

    And that's pretty much the mindset that led to Beamdog's current reputation. If their fans are willing to settle for them barely being competent, that's their business; but they can't then complain that the "vast majority" have somewhat higher standards of quality. People who have no clue what modding is also won't care about Beamdog's legacy or the history of BG; they expect a game that doesn't crash randomly or spout looping dialogue or freeze during cutscenes.
    Meanwhile Bethesda is cackling all the way to the bank.
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    I mean, let's be fair to Beamdog here: BG and BG2 have sold hundreds of thousands of copies. ~600,000 BG on Steam and ~425,000 BG2 on Steam. Icewind Dale has sold ~128,000 copies on Steam. Admittedly it doesn't have quite the same reputation that the first two have. Numbers from here.

    Will be interesting to see how well PST:EE sells.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    So it's not good enough if they release buggy games but it's also not good enough if they release a much less buggy game. It's not good enough if they patch the bugs, but not patching is also a point of contention. Admittedly, I'm disappointed that they haven't patched IWD:EE up to the same version level as BG and BG2, but at least I can acknowledge where they've done good as well as bad.

    What exactly can Beamdog do, exactly, that you won't find fault with?

    I mean, you're being facetious here, but let's be clear: I'm not the one OP is complaining about. If you want to know why Beamdog is falling victim to trolls and no one outside the fanbase on this forum gives a damn, it's because of their track record. They release buggy, borderline-broken games, and are terrible at ongoing QA and maintenance. You want to turn this into some idiotic strawman and make me the problem, go right ahead; it'll change exactly nothing about PST:EE's reception.
    ThacoBell said:

    Meanwhile Bethesda is cackling all the way to the bank.

    You might want to brush up on your history. Bethesda took more than its fair share of knocks for the state of Fallout 3 at launch. Care to guess why they're in a better position than Beamdog anyway? I'll give you a hint: check the dates. http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_patches
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    edited April 2017
    If no one outside this forum or fanbase gives a damn, why exactly did they sell hundreds of thousands of copies again?

    And you're right, I was being facetious.

    And you're not the problem, I just got a bit hung up on you complaining about Beamdog both doing and not doing a thing.

    Another place I saw some anti-Beamdog sentiment was over on Obsidian's forum. Not that anyone should rush over there to defend Beamdog because that'd be kinda silly, but I mean that was the first thread I saw after I logged in.

    Aside from that, it's a good forum. Been lurking for awhile.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited April 2017
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    I forgot the ability to run the EEs in higher native resolutions as well as widescreen resolutions without the need for the widescreen mod to be nice... and additionally, the ability to zoom in as needed. But for many, the widescreen mods are sufficient.
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  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    There is legitimate constructive criticism, but I totally wasn't talking about them. I was talking about haters. Like, I poked at @shawne but when it comes right down to it I don't think he's a hater at all. But people I saw over at Obsidian's forum, people I see whining about "SJWs", people who just blanket trash Beamdog's content without ever having actually played one of the EEs, those are the people I was talking about, and I've seen a lot of them since SOD especially.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    There is legitimate constructive criticism, but I totally wasn't talking about them. I was talking about haters. Like, I poked at @shawne but when it comes right down to it I don't think he's a hater at all. But people I saw over at Obsidian's forum, people I see whining about "SJWs", people who just blanket trash Beamdog's content without ever having actually played one of the EEs, those are the people I was talking about, and I've seen a lot of them since SOD especially.

    Which just circles back to my point: the reason those voices aren't being challenged directly is because Beamdog can't really be defended on the merits of their work, unless you take the fanboy route of dismissing criticism as "a point of ideology". I spent a good chunk of time last year taking trolls to task for all that transphobic BS, but at the end of the day SoD was still a subpar RPG with amateur writing and a Collector's Edition that was a year late. I certainly can't think of anything Beamdog could promise that 1) I'd believe, and 2) would get me to give them any more money.
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    edited April 2017
    Edit: De gustibus non est disputandum.
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    As far as the ideology comment goes, that's in reference to purists who hate the idea of anyone touching their classices and to outright bigots who complain about SJWs because they can't handle being reminded that people who are different from them exist. Please don't take my comments out of context.
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