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Instant death game overs for no reason

ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,951
edited April 2017 in Troubleshooting
Anyone notice how the newest version of BGEE sometimes kills the CHARNAME off for no reason. I am figguring it must be some kind of bug. I see it most often in BGEE but it happens in SoD as well. Seems to trigger when off screen explosions take place sometimes such as SoD crusader camp/ fort bombardment.
In BGEE I have seen it in many a place, Durlags, thieves maze,etc. Seems random. No death screen, straight to the game over, CHARNAME killed must start over. When looking at the background combat log behind that, clearly no damage was done to CHARNAME, period.

This was with NO MODS. Just straight up V2.3. Never had it happen with years of playing previous versions.

It often seems as if the program mistakes another creatures death for that of CHARNAME and does you in.

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Comments

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,646
    I used to get this bug every once in a while, although I cant recall the last time it happened to me ( ever since the new patch I don't think it has happened to me)

    I used to think it was caused with perhaps a buggy marek parameter with his geas quest ( where you have 10 days to find him) where it would just go off automatically for no reason and kill ya ( I found that every time that it did happen to me it was always after I started that quest) although it would only happen once in a game and after I reloaded it would never happen again that game

    so I have no idea

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,951
    I don't think I ever experienced with that particular quest. I do know that it has happened even after the quest was completed. Most likely not related but is does give pause to think if it is possible that it reactivates somehow. It should not affect SoD however.

    I think I have seen it most often if after discovering an enemy group, retreat, then firebomb them from a distance. But, just random for the most part, not often but at least every two or three runs. But again, has happened in several places and at various points in the game.

    There is some bug that exists, digging it up will probably be difficult.

    sarevok57
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,359
    I agree there's a bug. I've seen this type of death on quite a number of occasions, though fortunately not recently. Apart from the lack of damage or anyone attacking it's distinguished by the character portrait disappearing.

    Zaghoul
  • St. AndrewSt. Andrew Member Posts: 85
    Saw this happen in Durlags from an oddly invis/legit non-existent ghast? just insta deathed me. To be honest i've been seeing quite a few weird bugs lately, like attack modifiers changing, effect rolls not showing up on, etc. As I'm playing right now, i'm looking at my hit rolls from my assassin and it has gone from (dice roll) + anywhere from 5 to 11 = hit/miss. Being hidden only gave a +1 to thac0? Man i just don't know... lol

  • St. AndrewSt. Andrew Member Posts: 85
    I'm wondering why the second number would vary so widely when attacking the same battle horror....

  • St. AndrewSt. Andrew Member Posts: 85
    edited April 2017
    Wait so... if i remove my armor, the battle horrors hit rolls towards me goes from a (dice roll) + -1 = hit/miss to a (dice roll) + 1 = hit/miss? are hit rolls been completely broken?

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,951
    edited April 2017
    Well, at least I am not imagining it.
    Sometimes the THAC0 changes are due to armor type modifiers of CHARNAME vs enemy or enemy vs CHARNAME.
    I usually just go through the game feeling lucky if some non-existent GRUE doesn't take me out without damage or mention.
    @Grond0 definitely some detection sequence gone awry.

    Post edited by Zaghoul on
  • HalfCelestialHalfCelestial Member Posts: 211
    Strange, never seen that bug, and I put lots of hours into the game since the latest patch. Must be lucky I guess.

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,951
    Can a moderator move the THAC0 discussions (if it can be done) to the new THAC0 discussion started by St. Andrew (no offense meant). https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/64206/bug-1-of-holy-ing-bugs-batman-kersmack#latest

    Just will be easier to keep it on the matter at hand for both our separate issues. The instant death thing bugs really bugger up a no-reloader like myself.(can't help it after so long)

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,951
    Thanks to 'those above', looks like my 'summoning spell' worked. :)

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,951
    edited April 2017
    THIS time (another first in this place since the game was out) it happened in the Firewine Ruins dungeon. THe party and CHARNAME sitting at the exit door while the thief goes out scouting- kills EVERYTHING in dungeon except one last group of kobolds clear across the map. Sneaks up on this last bunch, and after having done the same to the other groups, after spotting, backs away and NofM firebombs them. Everything looks fine until the experience total for all the kobolds reaches the end of its listing.Then, YOUR CHARACTER HAS DIED START OVER. As usual, there is no damage listing whatsover on the backscreen for CHARNAME(no 'death rattle' sounds either).
    TO get right down to it I could actually talk myself into thinking it is not a bug but an invisible GRUE resurfacing from ZORK that pops up and gobbles me down, no save. Well, I guess restartis woulda hit eventually, may be it is to keep me from getting out of BG(my favorite part of the series).

    Post edited by Zaghoul on
  • St. AndrewSt. Andrew Member Posts: 85
    Just had this happen as well

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,951
    Dang GRUE got me AGAIN :s . The game mistakes explosions sometimes I think, and thinks CHARNAME dies instead of the one I am blowin up.

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,951
    Huh, these GRUE's are now starting to expand into the daylight in Ulcaster's ruins. Death outside while walking up the path on the hill to the ruins. Nothing was going on at the time. Derned ol buggy GRUES.

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,951
    Caught the game cheating. Charm against solo CHARNAME, game over screen. Then saw the save against it was a 20 in the background under the load/quit window. Went to small screen in windows , came back to full, and it erased the save of 20.
    Cheatin it is.

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,951
    Another one for the books. No damage taken in Durlag's. COULD have been new shadow door spell from SP that has a chance of drawing enemy into a space and trapping them if save is failed. Solo at the time so possible but the picture does not show a save. Oh well.

  • Avenger_teambgAvenger_teambg Member, Developer Posts: 5,862
    It looks like your single PC got mazed. All other weird deaths show a maze portrait icon?

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,951
    Not all do. This one was new after SR changed the shadow door spell to trap one in an dimensional space. I supposed a G.Dope cast it. But it has happened quite a few times in Durlags when I played without mods in the past.

  • ashingdaashingda Member Posts: 26
    I just took an instant death while fighting the fission slime in durlag's tower. At first I was like "Wow, dude can instakill?" then I noticed there was no damage or death message in the text box. After reading this post it does highlight two things which are the explosion such as "fireball" and Lothander's poison quest.

    I've completed the poisoned quest so that's a check on my list and right before I took the gameover I was in the middle of having Dynaheir cast a fireball via wand. After reloading the game I'm not able to recreate it. I've experienced random crashes before but I believe this is my first random death.

    Zaghoul
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,951
    edited July 2018
    @ashingda That one has bugged me for a long time. It looks like it may not be able to have a fix, but has been explained at least a little better, reproduced, and is now in a bug report, finally, It seems to have to do with too many projectiles (being in the area of the fireball trap is one in Durlag's Tower).
    Here are a couple of links that give more detail. It may help to save more often, esp. on that lvl of D'T, then quit the game entirely, and restart the game at the same point. It may cut down on the problem a little, if the game indeed logs in too many projectiles at one time, overloading it. The same issue has come up in the Bridgefort area in SoD for me as well, with the constant bombardment going on all the time.
    I now consider it a reload allowed death in my no-reload runs.
    @JuliusBorisov mentions this here:
    For all no-reloaders
    The public report:
    Bug 32843

    Grond0ashingdaJuliusBorisov
  • ashingdaashingda Member Posts: 26
    @Zaghoul
    Now wait a minute, you just reminded me of something. Think back this probably isn't the first time I took an instant death. I believe you're onto something about projectiles and fireballs. The floor above where there was a teleportation floor, I experienced a death there while triggering the multiple traps in the little room while taking away the next ward stone. Because at the time I was a solo fighter I didn't realize it was a bug. When taking the bombardment of fireball traps I was actually recovering health because my fire resist was at 125 but ended up dead regardless. I just thought it just wasn't allowed.

    I'll look for ways to recreate this and follow with the bug report as well.

    ZaghoulJuliusBorisov
  • ashingdaashingda Member Posts: 26
    edited July 2018
    @Zaghoul
    It looks like your bug report is closed now? Anyways I've narrowed down the cause and it's simply just the fireball animation that is causing the death.

    I was able to reliably recreate the death within a short amount of time. I set up a full party and equip them all with a shortbow and arrow of detonations then all fire at the 2nd character who is maxed out in fire resist and using a potion of regeneration. In less than the amount of time it takes for two potion of regeneration to run out (3 turns each) you should get the death message.

    image


    image


    Feel free to test the saved game yourself. I've also tested using normal arrows and after the 5 shooters expended 1,000 arrows each, nothing! So the problem isn't projectiles as a whole but mainly the fireball animation effect.

    Post edited by ashingda on
    ZaghoulJuliusBorisovThacoBellGreenWarlock
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,951
    @ashingda Nice find. B) Shoot, I'm just glad we have others that have seen this now. Sounds about right. I've encountered much the same with fireballs from the NofM's and wands as well, whether it be in D'sT or the Thieves Maze, or even outside Bridgefort in SoD. I think the report was closed because tampering with a fix was going to be a risk without making problems elsewhere.
    As @JuliusBorisov mentioned in the no-reload thread I posted" "Developers have tried to fix that problem (an object id overflow) but any fix turned out to be just too dangerous. The knock ons and consequences would greatly outweigh the number of people it helps, which is really unfortunate :(
    Save often, and if it happens restart the game (close the whole application and relaunch) which should fix the overflow for that session."

    ashingda
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 18,857
    An interesting addition, @ashingda . I've shared these new details with the developers.

    ashingdaZaghoul
  • ashingdaashingda Member Posts: 26
    edited July 2018
    @Zaghoul
    Yeah those little flame particles really adds up quickly. I was wondering how garbage collection works so I did a few tests. I set the firing squad to shoot for one potion duration then traveled to another area and continue firing the got the game over at the expected time. I did the same test except I had them rest instead of traveling and same results. So it appears the fireball effect does not get rid of itself when ended which is causing the overflow.

    I was wondering if other effects would cause the overflow so I modified my shortbow to shoot 5 magic missiles with increased attacks per round and then conducted the test. After a long long time nothing happened! I'm very convinced that fireball is the only offender as there is a problem with it's memory management and I'm not aware of anyone mentioning other effects causing these deaths.

    image


    @JuliusBorisov
    It would be great if the devs can find a solution. It's a real killjoy when you get a game over without a just cause. Especially if you're doing a no death run or someone along that line, even if it's a known bug and we can just reload, it spoils the mood with having lost progress and redoing things. I agree it's not a big deal but it just isn't the same.

    Post edited by ashingda on
    JuliusBorisovZaghoul
  • ShankShank Member Posts: 3
    Did some testing with original bg2 (gog version). Around arrow of detonation #435, the game will stop animating the projectiles or registering hits, although it still decrements the arrow count when fired. Couldn't get it to crash/kill main character.

    Zaghoul
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,951
    I've only seen it myself in BG1 and SoD. Well come to think of it, in ToB when the fire giants are attacking Saradush it has happened to me while up on the wall killing the giants a few times (been a while since I was there though).

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