Wait, so GOG pulled the original PST from sale once the EE was released??
Damn, that's a bad idea (whoever's it was).
I think the main reason of the hate is because of that: the original versions of BG I and II, IWD and now PST are not avaible for purchase. The only legal option is buy those EE. I really want to have those games, but I don't want a modded version labeled as "Enhanced Edition" on my account. So, how should I proceed?
If Beamdog is really good at making those EE, why don't let the original ones on GOG for separete purchase, like it was before? It seems like they don't trust that their product will sell enough, so you need remove the option of choice from costumers.
Of course, if this is not Beamdog's fault, then at least they can ask GOG to let the originals going back to the store - or even making a publicy note telling that is GOG fault. As long as this doesn't happen, Beamdog will be labeled as "the parasite of industry".
@arthrudecastro - There was a public note. A full-on press release in fact, with statements from Beamdog and Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro.
Here's a quote from Greg Tito, Communications Director for Dungeons & Dragons: "We're proud to recognize their excellent work in offering the best possible experience and support for these legendary titles. We want these to become the definitive editions – featuring both the enhanced and classic versions of the games."
So, the bundling happened at the direction of (or at least with full support of) Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro. The idea that Beamdog could direct GOG to remove the original versions *without* the full support of WotC/Hasbro is just ludicrous.
Look, I'm not saying that the EE are all bad or anything like that, but from a game preservation point of view I consider the EE like an "HD Mod". The fact is that there is the original game, the true classic that many people have been playing for some years and the only legal way to get those for years was on GOG. Now, in order to get this, you need purchase another software that you don't need to play; you're being force to spend money with an studio that did not create the game that you really want, just an mod of this game.
If is not Beamdog's fault (as I considered too), they could at least be more "present" about those questions. Like: there is a lot of places where discussions like this one are happening, and Beamdog could at least say "It's not your fault. We can't talk about that". But keeping silence about this problem of course will let people make some assumptions.
I just want a clear info about: who is the responsible for removing the option of choice from costumers that want to buy just the original versions of BG I and II, IWD and PST?
If is not Beamdog, then I agree that an gogmix calling BeamDog a parasite need to be removed from GOG. Right now I'm thinking that can be Hasbro's fault?
If Beamdog is really good at making those EE, why don't let the original ones on GOG for separete purchase, like it was before? It seems like they don't trust that their product will sell enough, so you need remove the option of choice from costumers.
It is a really large assumption that it may have been Beamdog's call in the first place.
Just because a product exists in digital form, it doesn't follow that it works much differently than physical distribution. GOG may have offered it earlier, but they were not given perpetual rights to sell copies of PST by the owner/publisher of the game. PST may have been digitally distributed, but the situation is really no different than a publisher discontinuing an old edition of a book in favor of a newer one.
I have considered too the possibility of not being their fault in my post. And because there is no clear info about that, one can make theories.
I think the main reason of the hate is because of that: the original versions of BG I and II, IWD and now PST are not avaible for purchase. The only legal option is buy those EE. I really want to have those games, but I don't want a modded version labeled as "Enhanced Edition" on my account. So, how should I proceed
Are you and/or anyone else who has complained that the original Infinity Engine games are no longer available for purchase independent from the Enhanced Editions 100% absolutely certain of this assumption?
I posted this same information on GOG's forums a year ago when there was all the griping about this situation at and about the time that Siege of Dragonspear was released and I got berated for doing so. When the griping began anew with the announcement of Planescape Enhanced Edition I reposted this information once again and unsurprisingly I got berated once again for doing so. That leads me to personally conclude that there are certain individuals that are looking for justification to hate Beamdog and to publicly voice their condemnation.
I have considered too the possibility of not being their fault in my post. And because there is no clear info about that, one can make theories.
There *is* clear info that the bundling was done at the direction of WotC/Hasbro. Read the statement from the Communcations Director for D&D, "We want these to become the definitive editions – featuring both the enhanced and classic versions of the games."
It couldn't have been done WITHOUT the full backing of WotC/Hasbro. They are the publisher of the original versions (after having gotten those rights back from the remains of Atari) and the owner of all D&D IP. The idea that Beamdog could force GOG to bundle the EEs and the original versions against the wishes of Hasbro, a company with $4.5 billion in annual revenues, is ridiculous.
WotC/Hasbro wanted this bundle to happen. They've stated it in clear, unambiguous language. That you refuse to acknowledge this statement is baffling.
It couldn't have been done WITHOUT the full backing of WotC/Hasbro. They are the publisher of the original versions (after having gotten those rights back from the remains of Atari) and the owner of all D&D IP. The idea that Beamdog could force GOG to bundle the EEs and the original versions against the wishes of Hasbro, a company with $4.5 billion in annual revenues, is ridiculous.
Precisely. Beamdog couldn't stop the sales of the original PST on GOG any more than they can stop the sales of Pokemon cards at my local comic shop. For the second (or third?) time in the history of Planescape: Torment, the rightsholder simply considers the 1999 edition to be "out of print." It presently exists only as a bonus download for the Enhanced Edition.
And to address the inevitable: "Why not leave the old versions up for sale when it literally costs nothing to have it available digitally?" Yes, it does cost them money to leave the old one up for sale. Hasbro, the rightsholder of both the original and enhanced editions, would rather everyone get a slice of a $20 sale, than leave the original up for $10. They own the game and get to make those decisions. Simple as that.
It is really no different from other remasters of old games. I think it is actually very awesome that the classics are getting dusted off and released for modern hardware. Though, it is curious how much grief Beamdog gets for their work. If I browse the reviews for Grim Fandango Remastered, I don't see the same complaints that the original edition has mysteriously vanished or that title cards were altered (OMG WHERE IS THE LUCASARTS LOGO?!!").
Are you and/or anyone else who has complained that the original Infinity Engine games are no longer available for purchase independent from the Enhanced Editions 100% absolutely certain of this assumption?
I posted this same information on GOG's forums a year ago when there was all the griping about this situation at and about the time that Siege of Dragonspear was released and I got berated for doing so. When the griping began anew with the announcement of Planescape Enhanced Edition I reposted this information once again and unsurprisingly I got berated once again for doing so. That leads me to personally conclude that there are certain individuals that are looking for justification to hate Beamdog and to publicly voice their condemnation.
Do you really think that just because is on Amazon is "available" for everyone? How I'm supposse to purchase this beign a citizen living in Brazil without a International Credit Card? GOG has regional payment methods for me, Amazon don't.
And guess what: there is a way to get only the original version without purchasing the EE. The name is piracy. How do we combat piracy? Letting options of purchase to people.
I have considered too the possibility of not being their fault in my post. And because there is no clear info about that, one can make theories.
There *is* clear info that the bundling was done at the direction of WotC/Hasbro. Read the statement from the Communcations Director for D&D, "We want these to become the definitive editions – featuring both the enhanced and classic versions of the games."
It couldn't have been done WITHOUT the full backing of WotC/Hasbro. They are the publisher of the original versions (after having gotten those rights back from the remains of Atari) and the owner of all D&D IP. The idea that Beamdog could force GOG to bundle the EEs and the original versions against the wishes of Hasbro, a company with $4.5 billion in annual revenues, is ridiculous.
WotC/Hasbro wanted this bundle to happen. They've stated it in clear, unambiguous language. That you refuse to acknowledge this statement is baffling.
I'm not refusing. I just don't know about that. I don't called BeamDog a parasite too because I don't have enough info about the situation. Also, this sentence was my answer for my previous post, when I don't have your link. Now, that you showed me the link, I know the situation. What I said was just that, as a costumer that have an option of choice removed, is understandable why people get pissed with Beamdog, simple because the only version that is on sale is from them. Also, on GOG the Developer/Publisher info show only "BeamDog", not "Hasbro", so of course the customers will blame BeamDog for this shit.
I thank's everyone for answering me about who is the responsible, but I feel that you guys are almost as harsh as those haters on GOG. I was lost and ask for answers, and I feel like I was an enemy here.
It is really no different from other remasters of old games. I think it is actually very awesome that the classics are getting dusted off and released for modern hardware. Though, it is curious how much grief Beamdog gets for their work. If I browse the reviews for Grim Fandango Remastered, I don't see the same complaints that the original edition has mysteriously vanished or that title cards were altered (OMG WHERE IS THE LUCASARTS LOGO?!!").
I don't know much about the new Grim Fandango, but did this one also get new content (new bugs included) like BG EE?
I thank's everyone for answering me about who is the responsible, but I feel that you guys are almost as harsh as those haters on GOG. I was lost and ask for answers, and I feel like I was an enemy here.
My apologies if we came off a little strong.
You are correct that it is a little hard to sort out who owns what and which parties likely made which decisions. I think back in 2009-2010, it even took GOG the better part of a year to track down the owner of PST and secure the digital distribution rights.
However, the main point that some of the posters here are trying to bring up is along the lines of: - Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast presently owns the 1999 PST - Beamdog was given license to use the 1999 PST to develop a modern remake: PST:EE - Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast chose to discontinue sales of the 1999 PST in favor of that remake - While Beamdog obviously benefits from that decision, it was not their's to make. Hasbro, as the overall owner, decides how their games are distributed (if at all).
@arthrudecastro You're not an enemy here. The community is to help with your questions. If someone was harsh in their comments, then this someone should change their tone. All users deserve to get a respectful attitude from others.
@arthrudecastro You're good, and very welcome here! Keep in mind this is a frustrating topic. So frustrations will be expressed. It doesn't mean they are frustrated with you. I actually had to retract something above because I felt somebody would take it that way. But in all honesty, even if I vehemently disagree with someone here, I think it's cool they are on here talking about games. Even if I respond directly to you and disagree, it is far from personal.
I have considered too the possibility of not being their fault in my post. And because there is no clear info about that, one can make theories.
There *is* clear info that the bundling was done at the direction of WotC/Hasbro. Read the statement from the Communcations Director for D&D, "We want these to become the definitive editions – featuring both the enhanced and classic versions of the games."
It couldn't have been done WITHOUT the full backing of WotC/Hasbro. They are the publisher of the original versions (after having gotten those rights back from the remains of Atari) and the owner of all D&D IP. The idea that Beamdog could force GOG to bundle the EEs and the original versions against the wishes of Hasbro, a company with $4.5 billion in annual revenues, is ridiculous.
WotC/Hasbro wanted this bundle to happen. They've stated it in clear, unambiguous language. That you refuse to acknowledge this statement is baffling.
I'm not refusing. I just don't know about that. I don't called BeamDog a parasite too because I don't have enough info about the situation. Also, this sentence was my answer for my previous post, when I don't have your link. Now, that you showed me the link, I know the situation. What I said was just that, as a costumer that have an option of choice removed, is understandable why people get pissed with Beamdog, simple because the only version that is on sale is from them. Also, on GOG the Developer/Publisher info show only "BeamDog", not "Hasbro", so of course the customers will blame BeamDog for this shit.
I thank's everyone for answering me about who is the responsible, but I feel that you guys are almost as harsh as those haters on GOG. I was lost and ask for answers, and I feel like I was an enemy here.
My apologies if my response came across as harsh. Your post was after I posted the link to the press release, and referred to there being "no clear info" in the present tense (i.e., not acknowledging the press release and WotC quote). Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Your response was to "move the goalposts" and justification for piracy because you claim it's more difficult for you to purchase the original versions independent of the Enhanced Editions from a viable legal source. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts
Do you really think that just because is on Amazon is "available" for everyone? How I'm supposse to purchase this beign a citizen living in Brazil without a International Credit Card? GOG has regional payment methods for me, Amazon don't.
And guess what: there is a way to get only the original version without purchasing the EE. The name is piracy. How do we combat piracy? Letting options of purchase to people.
Your moving of the goalposts and justification for piracy despite there being a viable legal source due to claims of it being more difficult were something very similar to what someone claimed to me a year ago (though this individual is supposedly from Argentina instead of Brazil) :
Im not seeing digital editions there, let me tell you, the only reason I did not resort to piracy to get the original games was because I had the option to buy the cheap digital versions avalible in this site, no EE nonsense, no shipping costs, and no dealings with the absurd customs system of my country.
Im pretty sure that future customes in situations like mine will have no option other than torrenting if they dont want to pay the extra buck on the EE editions just to get to what they really want.
There *is* clear info that the bundling was done at the direction of WotC/Hasbro.
WotC/Hasbro are the publisher of the original versions (after having gotten those rights back from the remains of Atari) and the owner of all D&D IP. The idea that Beamdog could force GOG to bundle the EEs and the original versions against the wishes of Hasbro, a company with $4.5 billion in annual revenues, is ridiculous.
WotC/Hasbro wanted this bundle to happen. They've stated it in clear, unambiguous language. That you refuse to acknowledge this statement is baffling.
I'm not refusing. I just don't know about that.
But... but... you do know about that. Because this gentleman just told you and pointed you to accurate information. So now you have that information... honestly it's a bit weird that you can receive the relevant knowledge and still say "I have no knowledge of that." You literally do.
It is really no different from other remasters of old games. I think it is actually very awesome that the classics are getting dusted off and released for modern hardware. Though, it is curious how much grief Beamdog gets for their work. If I browse the reviews for Grim Fandango Remastered, I don't see the same complaints that the original edition has mysteriously vanished or that title cards were altered (OMG WHERE IS THE LUCASARTS LOGO?!!").
I don't know much about the new Grim Fandango, but did this one also get new content (new bugs included) like BG EE?
Grim Fandango Remastered is exactly like PSTEE - no new content, but tweaked UI, updated graphics, and improved hardware support. Except the original version of Grim Fandango is not being preserved and bundled with the new version. So, definitively worse in an important way. And yet people have no problem with it, and are attacking Beamdog based on false/incorrect statements about PSTEE. That seems to undermine the credibility of the Beamdog critics...
When I said that "I don't know about that", I'm reffering about before AstroBryGuy post the link. Because of my lack of knowledge, I wrote what I wrote on my first post. But now I due know that is not BeamDog's fault, so I'll also try to bring a light on other places where this discussions appers (like on GOG Forum) to people stop blame BeamDog when is not their fault.
There *is* clear info that the bundling was done at the direction of WotC/Hasbro.
WotC/Hasbro are the publisher of the original versions (after having gotten those rights back from the remains of Atari) and the owner of all D&D IP. The idea that Beamdog could force GOG to bundle the EEs and the original versions against the wishes of Hasbro, a company with $4.5 billion in annual revenues, is ridiculous.
WotC/Hasbro wanted this bundle to happen. They've stated it in clear, unambiguous language. That you refuse to acknowledge this statement is baffling.
I'm not refusing. I just don't know about that.
But... but... you do know about that. Because this gentleman just told you and pointed you to accurate information. So now you have that information... honestly it's a bit weird that you can receive the relevant knowledge and still say "I have no knowledge of that." You literally do.
It is really no different from other remasters of old games. I think it is actually very awesome that the classics are getting dusted off and released for modern hardware. Though, it is curious how much grief Beamdog gets for their work. If I browse the reviews for Grim Fandango Remastered, I don't see the same complaints that the original edition has mysteriously vanished or that title cards were altered (OMG WHERE IS THE LUCASARTS LOGO?!!").
I don't know much about the new Grim Fandango, but did this one also get new content (new bugs included) like BG EE?
Grim Fandango Remastered is exactly like PSTEE - no new content, but tweaked UI, updated graphics, and improved hardware support. Except the original version of Grim Fandango is not being preserved and bundled with the new version. So, definitively worse in an important way. And yet people have no problem with it, and are attacking Beamdog based on false/incorrect statements about PSTEE. That seems to undermine the credibility of the Beamdog critics...
grim fandango remaster adds a point and click interface which makes the game more playable then the original. and if not for the remaster we would never be able to play it as it was never made digitally available.
@arthrudecastro To be honest, I'm actually very sympathetic to the fact that you can no longer buy a copy of the original PST.
I bought PST:EE via the Beamdog store, and have a set of CDs for the original. Even when PST was occasionally on sale for $3 on GOG, I thought to myself: "no worries, I've got it on CD!" Now here I am in 2017, and I realize I haven't had a computer with an optical drive in the last four years... oops.
Maybe I'll buy PST:EE a second time on GOG if there's a sale just to get a copy of the original, but until then, I am very happy with how PST:EE turned out. It is multi-platform and has many of the modern features one would expect out of a CRPG (console, quick loot, etc...). Even if there may be a couple bugs to iron out, the fact that it returned to active development is a pretty big deal.
While a fully modded-out original is pretty nice, there is only so much the community can do to patch it up. Now that Beamdog is the custodian of the game's code, there is a lot more that can be done to ensure that PST:EE becomes the definitive version of Planescape: Torment for years to come.
Just like Grim Fandango, I don't think I'll be returning to the originals for anything other than nostalgia. The remakes are pretty slick, and I do hope the trend of retro remasters continues in the future.
Anyway, people can get a little intense about games here, but I do hope you stick around. Feel free to give a hello over at the New Members Welcome Area. We're all nice people, I promise!
But my concern with those old games not being sold is more a critic to the game preservation itself. Like: without an option to purchase the original Grim Fandango (for example), the "only" (or "more acessible") option to preserve them will be piracy, and that is sad =/
I'll admit, it is unfortunate the original Planescape:Torment just got phased out instead of packaged or sold separately. I'm glad I got the old one because I never thought there would be an enhanced edition. If we never get Unfinished Business for EE I may have to install the old one and add that mod. It's too bad people can only buy the cd version now, which has limited availability.
I'd love to see these people sued for slander - if only because they'd have to leave their mothers' basements to go to court!
Seems this comment of mine has gotten some unwanted attention and is being used as another argument against Beamdog.
More to the point, I went over the line when I wrote this and sincerely apologize! It goes to prove the old adage that if you speak in anger, you will make the best speech you'll ever regret.
what you people fail to understand is that some people like beamdog, others don't. its really simple to understand that. as much as you praise beamdog another one will come along and bash them.
what provoked this beamdog hate is easy to identify, but every single one of you on this forum refuses to see it since day 1. baldurs gate was free of PC propaganda or PC obligations towards certain communities. BG ee however tried to *address* that *issue* with homosexual romances etc etc, what to be dead honest wasn't what the entire community wanted.
now what percentage of the community was that? was it 1-5% according to PC advocates? was it 90% according to BG purists? no one can know. and as much as PC people suggest that we have to advocate homosexual romances for the 1-5% of global population who is gay, i didn't see them giving a shit about the 1-5% of player base who didnt want BG to be progressive.
now lets think for 1 moment whats the paradox here. you take a perfectly established game, tamper with it in a way you think its *proper* and when people start throwing tantrum about this very tampering you did, you call them bigots. really good call. really good bloody call. *clap clap clap*.
what was the OBVIOUS way to handle an EE version? LEAVE it as it bloody WAS. DON'T mess with it. this way you unite ALL the community and you BOOST your sales. even those PC warriors that want equality even in subway sandwiches wouldn't complain cause that was the WAY the game WAS.
Now i wont even comment again about the horrible dragonspear, which after i play 5 times i still cant understand if it has any connection with the original games at all. i will call it a bad choice of scripting at best and wrong place to fight a PC battle at worst.
Feel free to bash me, and please do comment freely choosing 1 word i used as a leverage to develop your Darwin theorems and rant about how privileged i must be and without anything else to do in my life.
cause unlike all you who spent hours and days in this forum, complimenting one another for your spectacular, progressive and well developed points of views and opinions, some of us, have real jobs and real lives and every single day we come home from work wanting just to relax and play a game we used to love, we come upon those bloody disgraces you dare to call *enhanced* and cant even down a pint of beer in peace. we have to face another round of gay parades, amy sue style news, and far left progressive tantrum.
i hope you keep on fighting for what is right on the world, and please try harder to create more comfort zones for people who are that badly oppressed cause you know, being gay is definitively the biggest problem in this world we live in, unlike being African and dying from hunger or being Chinese and dying from pollution.
yours truly a retarded alt right bigot trump supporter who carries ten shotguns at the least.
No, people won't bash you. You're free to have that opinion. Other people may have another opinion, and most likely they won't speak about Darwin theorems and privileges. At least, generally people on this forum speak to each other without mentioning that.
@iasson One serious question: how does all that you have written go along with PST:EE and evaluating it?
@JuliusBorisov PST:EE is pretty fine tbh, i expected more fixes, especially some minor UB content they left out and some deleted dialogs but its kinda ok. it creeps me a bit cause the interface tends to have some dragonspear influence, which UI was HORRIBLE, but otherwise is an ok game. what SUCKS though is the extra charge for the free soundtrack.
my previous post addressed everyone wondering why people bash beamdog products and calls them thief on gog and metacritic, which was the tittle of this very topic if i am not mistaken.
@JuliusBorisov PST:EE is pretty fine tbh, i expected more fixes, especially some minor UB content they left out and some deleted dialogs but its kinda ok. it creeps me a bit cause the interface tends to have some dragonspear influence, which UI was HORRIBLE, but otherwise is an ok game. what SUCKS though is the extra charge for the free soundtrack.
my previous post addressed everyone wondering why people bash beamdog products and calls them thief on gog and metacritic, which was the tittle of this very topic if i am not mistaken.
Yeah that was more than I was willing to pay as well. I'm not entirely sure what a fair price would be, but as of now I'm not going for it.
Right. Your homophobia led you to dislike the added content in BGEE, and SoD. Everyone gets that. Some progressives may take issue with that homophobia, but setting that aside, it is perfectly reasonable why you would dislike the EEs. You keep saying we "don't get it" but we do in fact get it. As I say, it is a perfectly reasonable and expectable response on your part.
lets see, wrong, wrong, wrong aaaaaand (surprise!) wrong again! in your hurry to patronize me and display your superior ethical code and way of life, you failed to read and comprehend what those lines were about here) you assumed it was my *homophobia* when i clearly said it was the effort to *address* the lack of homosexual romances. well now, those are 2 very different different things that any person with half a brain could understand, but seeing you have a little trouble doing that, cause you only like to quote random words and then place an argument bragging about your progressiveness, i will try to break it down for you, but i still doubt you will a) read it, b) understand it, c) realize you didnt understand what i am saying and kindly leave. so once again, i told: "i dont like beamdogs need to *address* issues in perfectly established games." now lets say beamdog made her OWN game, you know, fully own not just an EE or expansion. and lets say they had to place a token character that eats rainbows and rides unicorns, would i be bothered? NOT at all. what bothers me is the need you and other people display to change what was a perfect game to something that serves your views.
The thing is, with PSTEE, this is exactly what Beamdog did. So the reasonable position would be something like "I hate BGEE and BG2EE and SoD, but I'll hand it to them, they did the right thing with PSTEE (and maybe also IWDEE)." You lose all credibility if you can't give credit where credit's due.
and here you prove once more that you didnt even read my post, didnt even try to understand what i said. you just scanned the text quickly, found lines that you could use out of context to support your views and just wrote your pompous block of text. i never mentioned IWD or PST in my post, i referred solely on BG and how the whole beamdog bashing started. it was more like an explanation for people like you who pretend to be clueless, but you fail to grasp that.
Feel free to bash me, and please do comment freely choosing 1 word i used as a leverage to develop your Darwin theorems and rant about how privileged i must be and without anything else to do in my life.
@subtledoctor thanks for proving my point exactly once more)
P.S. i will try to simplify my whole post even more, cause i suspect that no matter how much effort i put to convey my message, you people are just to thick to understand it.
Someone makes a new black car. Will i buy it? No. Why? i dont like black cars.
Someone comes to my home, takes my white car away and leaves me the black car. Now i dont like the black car at all but since my white car is no more i dont have a choice. So i complain about it.
Still sounds illogical? to bad then, i cant help you further, please reach for professional help!
Someone makes a new black car. Will i buy it? No. Why? i dont like black cars. Someone comes to my home, takes my white car away and leaves me the black car. Now i dont like the black car at all but since my white car is no more i dont have a choice. So i complain about it. Still sounds illogical? to bad then, i cant help you further, please reach for professional help!
Beamdog broke into your home, stole your personally owned pre-existing copies of the original versions of the Baldur's Gate games, replaced your personally owned pre-existing copies of the original versions of the Baldur's Gate games with the Enhanced Editions, then forced you against your will to play the Enhanced Editions, so you're posting on this forum to complain about what Beamdog personally did to you and that's why if others don't agree with your personal narrative you suggest they seek "professional help"?! Is there something I missed?...
Comments
https://www.gog.com/news/definitive_edition_bundle_baldurs_gate_i_ii_icewind_dale
Here's a quote from Greg Tito, Communications Director for Dungeons & Dragons: "We're proud to recognize their excellent work in offering the best possible experience and support for these legendary titles. We want these to become the definitive editions – featuring both the enhanced and classic versions of the games."
So, the bundling happened at the direction of (or at least with full support of) Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro. The idea that Beamdog could direct GOG to remove the original versions *without* the full support of WotC/Hasbro is just ludicrous.
If is not Beamdog's fault (as I considered too), they could at least be more "present" about those questions. Like: there is a lot of places where discussions like this one are happening, and Beamdog could at least say "It's not your fault. We can't talk about that". But keeping silence about this problem of course will let people make some assumptions.
I just want a clear info about: who is the responsible for removing the option of choice from costumers that want to buy just the original versions of BG I and II, IWD and PST?
If is not Beamdog, then I agree that an gogmix calling BeamDog a parasite need to be removed from GOG. Right now I'm thinking that can be Hasbro's fault?
I have considered too the possibility of not being their fault in my post. And because there is no clear info about that, one can make theories.
https://www.amazon.com/Planescape-Torment-Pc/dp/B002TOKQIG
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plane-Scape-Torment-PC-DVD/dp/B002TOKQIG
https://www.amazon.com/Baldurs-Gate-Box-Set-Compilation/dp/B000FGA1US/
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Baldurs-Gate-Box-Set-DVD/dp/B002TOKQH2/
https://www.amazon.com/Icewind-Dale-Boxset-Heart-Winter-II/dp/B000FGBVAC/
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/PC-Video-Games/Interplay-Icewind-Dale-3-1-Compilation-DVD/B002TOKQI6/
I posted this same information on GOG's forums a year ago when there was all the griping about this situation at and about the time that Siege of Dragonspear was released and I got berated for doing so. When the griping began anew with the announcement of Planescape Enhanced Edition I reposted this information once again and unsurprisingly I got berated once again for doing so. That leads me to personally conclude that there are certain individuals that are looking for justification to hate Beamdog and to publicly voice their condemnation.
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/definitive_edition_bundle_baldurs_gate_i_ii_icewind_dale_cabe2/post264
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/release_planescape_torment_enhanced_edition_7fa05/post215
It couldn't have been done WITHOUT the full backing of WotC/Hasbro. They are the publisher of the original versions (after having gotten those rights back from the remains of Atari) and the owner of all D&D IP. The idea that Beamdog could force GOG to bundle the EEs and the original versions against the wishes of Hasbro, a company with $4.5 billion in annual revenues, is ridiculous.
WotC/Hasbro wanted this bundle to happen. They've stated it in clear, unambiguous language. That you refuse to acknowledge this statement is baffling.
And to address the inevitable: "Why not leave the old versions up for sale when it literally costs nothing to have it available digitally?" Yes, it does cost them money to leave the old one up for sale. Hasbro, the rightsholder of both the original and enhanced editions, would rather everyone get a slice of a $20 sale, than leave the original up for $10. They own the game and get to make those decisions. Simple as that.
It is really no different from other remasters of old games. I think it is actually very awesome that the classics are getting dusted off and released for modern hardware. Though, it is curious how much grief Beamdog gets for their work. If I browse the reviews for Grim Fandango Remastered, I don't see the same complaints that the original edition has mysteriously vanished or that title cards were altered (OMG WHERE IS THE LUCASARTS LOGO?!!").
And guess what: there is a way to get only the original version without purchasing the EE. The name is piracy. How do we combat piracy? Letting options of purchase to people.
I'm not refusing. I just don't know about that. I don't called BeamDog a parasite too because I don't have enough info about the situation. Also, this sentence was my answer for my previous post, when I don't have your link. Now, that you showed me the link, I know the situation. What I said was just that, as a costumer that have an option of choice removed, is understandable why people get pissed with Beamdog, simple because the only version that is on sale is from them. Also, on GOG the Developer/Publisher info show only "BeamDog", not "Hasbro", so of course the customers will blame BeamDog for this shit.
I thank's everyone for answering me about who is the responsible, but I feel that you guys are almost as harsh as those haters on GOG. I was lost and ask for answers, and I feel like I was an enemy here. I don't know much about the new Grim Fandango, but did this one also get new content (new bugs included) like BG EE?
You are correct that it is a little hard to sort out who owns what and which parties likely made which decisions. I think back in 2009-2010, it even took GOG the better part of a year to track down the owner of PST and secure the digital distribution rights.
However, the main point that some of the posters here are trying to bring up is along the lines of:
- Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast presently owns the 1999 PST
- Beamdog was given license to use the 1999 PST to develop a modern remake: PST:EE
- Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast chose to discontinue sales of the 1999 PST in favor of that remake
- While Beamdog obviously benefits from that decision, it was not their's to make. Hasbro, as the overall owner, decides how their games are distributed (if at all).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts Your moving of the goalposts and justification for piracy despite there being a viable legal source due to claims of it being more difficult were something very similar to what someone claimed to me a year ago (though this individual is supposedly from Argentina instead of Brazil) :
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/definitive_edition_bundle_baldurs_gate_i_ii_icewind_dale_cabe2/post335
When I said that "I don't know about that", I'm reffering about before AstroBryGuy post the link. Because of my lack of knowledge, I wrote what I wrote on my first post. But now I due know that is not BeamDog's fault, so I'll also try to bring a light on other places where this discussions appers (like on GOG Forum) to people stop blame BeamDog when is not their fault.
About Grim Fandango: I agree is much worse since it doesn't have the original one. I see that there is even an entry on Community Wishlist about that: https://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/grim_fandango_original_version
To be honest, I'm actually very sympathetic to the fact that you can no longer buy a copy of the original PST.
I bought PST:EE via the Beamdog store, and have a set of CDs for the original. Even when PST was occasionally on sale for $3 on GOG, I thought to myself: "no worries, I've got it on CD!" Now here I am in 2017, and I realize I haven't had a computer with an optical drive in the last four years... oops.
Maybe I'll buy PST:EE a second time on GOG if there's a sale just to get a copy of the original, but until then, I am very happy with how PST:EE turned out. It is multi-platform and has many of the modern features one would expect out of a CRPG (console, quick loot, etc...). Even if there may be a couple bugs to iron out, the fact that it returned to active development is a pretty big deal.
While a fully modded-out original is pretty nice, there is only so much the community can do to patch it up. Now that Beamdog is the custodian of the game's code, there is a lot more that can be done to ensure that PST:EE becomes the definitive version of Planescape: Torment for years to come.
Just like Grim Fandango, I don't think I'll be returning to the originals for anything other than nostalgia. The remakes are pretty slick, and I do hope the trend of retro remasters continues in the future.
Anyway, people can get a little intense about games here, but I do hope you stick around. Feel free to give a hello over at the New Members Welcome Area. We're all nice people, I promise!
But my concern with those old games not being sold is more a critic to the game preservation itself. Like: without an option to purchase the original Grim Fandango (for example), the "only" (or "more acessible") option to preserve them will be piracy, and that is sad =/
More to the point, I went over the line when I wrote this and sincerely apologize! It goes to prove the old adage that if you speak in anger, you will make the best speech you'll ever regret.
what provoked this beamdog hate is easy to identify, but every single one of you on this forum refuses to see it since day 1. baldurs gate was free of PC propaganda or PC obligations towards certain communities. BG ee however tried to *address* that *issue* with homosexual romances etc etc, what to be dead honest wasn't what the entire community wanted.
now what percentage of the community was that? was it 1-5% according to PC advocates? was it 90% according to BG purists? no one can know. and as much as PC people suggest that we have to advocate homosexual romances for the 1-5% of global population who is gay, i didn't see them giving a shit about the 1-5% of player base who didnt want BG to be progressive.
now lets think for 1 moment whats the paradox here. you take a perfectly established game, tamper with it in a way you think its *proper* and when people start throwing tantrum about this very tampering you did, you call them bigots. really good call. really good bloody call. *clap clap clap*.
what was the OBVIOUS way to handle an EE version? LEAVE it as it bloody WAS. DON'T mess with it. this way you unite ALL the community and you BOOST your sales. even those PC warriors that want equality even in subway sandwiches wouldn't complain cause that was the WAY the game WAS.
Now i wont even comment again about the horrible dragonspear, which after i play 5 times i still cant understand if it has any connection with the original games at all. i will call it a bad choice of scripting at best and wrong place to fight a PC battle at worst.
Feel free to bash me, and please do comment freely choosing 1 word i used as a leverage to develop your Darwin theorems and rant about how privileged i must be and without anything else to do in my life.
cause unlike all you who spent hours and days in this forum, complimenting one another for your spectacular, progressive and well developed points of views and opinions, some of us, have real jobs and real lives and every single day we come home from work wanting just to relax and play a game we used to love, we come upon those bloody disgraces you dare to call *enhanced* and cant even down a pint of beer in peace. we have to face another round of gay parades, amy sue style news, and far left progressive tantrum.
i hope you keep on fighting for what is right on the world, and please try harder to create more comfort zones for people who are that badly oppressed cause you know, being gay is definitively the biggest problem in this world we live in, unlike being African and dying from hunger or being Chinese and dying from pollution.
yours truly
a retarded alt right bigot trump supporter who carries ten shotguns at the least.
If you don't like them, then okay.
@iasson One serious question: how does all that you have written go along with PST:EE and evaluating it?
my previous post addressed everyone wondering why people bash beamdog products and calls them thief on gog and metacritic, which was the tittle of this very topic if i am not mistaken.
P.S. i will try to simplify my whole post even more, cause i suspect that no matter how much effort i put to convey my message, you people are just to thick to understand it.
Someone makes a new black car.
Will i buy it? No. Why? i dont like black cars.
Someone comes to my home, takes my white car away and leaves me the black car.
Now i dont like the black car at all but since my white car is no more i dont have a choice. So i complain about it.
Still sounds illogical? to bad then, i cant help you further, please reach for professional help!