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Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition has been released! Visit www.planescape.com to purchase and check for details.
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Show Planescape:Torment Enhanced Edition some love on GoG (GOGMIXES)

themazingnessthemazingness Member Posts: 113
So Planescape:Torment Enhanced Edition could use some love over at GoG. There is this great feature called GOGMIXES that let you create a list of games and review them.

Unfortunately, the second highest one (could easily become the first) on Planescape:Torment Enhanced Edition's page has some blatantly false information (like saying the Enhanced Edition games don't give Black Isle credit) and is inflammatory. It is entitled "Beamdog Is the Parasite of the Industry."

So, go show Planescape:Torment some love and upvote some of the other lists that you like. It isn't fair that this game is getting bad publicity just because of Dragonspear controversy.

The store page can be found here:
https://gog.com/game/planescape_torment_enhanced_edition
TressetPekingduckmantaclanetypo_tilly
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Comments

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 653
    i expcted this to happen. planescape torment is the top selling game on gog every time there is a sale and the hate they have for beam dog was going to be worse then with baldurs gate because of this.
    typo_tilly
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 4,825
    edited April 11
    People who are unhappy will always leave more reviews, skewing games to lower scores. It doesn't help that GOG allows reviews for games that a person doesn't own. Steam scores will be higher because you can only leave a score if you own the game.
    themazingnessTressetsparkleav
  • themazingnessthemazingness Member Posts: 113
    "Beamdog Is the Parasite of the Industry" is at the top currently :P (144 votes).
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 653
    i read all the of his reviews and they are so dumb.
  • Montresor_SPMontresor_SP Member Posts: 1,439
    I'd love to see these people sued for slander - if only because they'd have to leave their mothers' basements to go to court!
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 653
    slander is spoken and print is libel.
    Doubledimastaclane
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 2,606

    slander is spoken and print is libel.

    Gotcha, J.J.! :smile:

    image
    megamike15themazingness
  • ccunning1ccunning1 Member Posts: 17
    I'm not very good at leaving reviews because I'm a man of few words, but I appreciate beamdog for remaking all the old D&D games. I admit that I was a little upset over Dragonspear, but I got over it with this release for sure.
    Montresor_SP
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 562
    Unbundeling the classic version from the EE version would go a long way. Fans are not liking that bundling.
  • ValamirCleaverValamirCleaver Member Posts: 173
    Rawgrim said:

    Unbundeling the classic version from the EE version would go a long way. Fans are not liking that bundling.

    Or someone with firsthand knowledge of the situation making an official public statement directly identifying which specific party made the decision to bundle the games & remove the original versions from independent sale though I doubt that would ever happen because a company probably shouldn't make official public statements that throws a partner company under the bus.

    Me myself; I'm sick & tired of those individuals whose lives are evidently so very full, rich and fulfilling that they each made multiple alt accounts and been systematically down voting each & every post they find by any other member who has ever posted anything with which they don't agree ever since Siege of Dragonspear was released. The fact that GOG does no real moderation of their forum greatly exasperates this situation. Even if all GOG did was to ditch the forum reputation system and limit reviews to those accounts which own the game in their GOG account it would greatly remedy this gaming the system issue.
  • themazingnessthemazingness Member Posts: 113

    Rawgrim said:

    Unbundeling the classic version from the EE version would go a long way. Fans are not liking that bundling.

    Or someone with firsthand knowledge of the situation making an official public statement directly identifying which specific party made the decision to bundle the games & remove the original versions from independent sale though I doubt that would ever happen because a company probably shouldn't make official public statements that throws a partner company under the bus.

    Me myself; I'm sick & tired of those individuals whose lives are evidently so very full, rich and fulfilling that they each made multiple alt accounts and been systematically down voting each & every post they find by any other member who has ever posted anything with which they don't agree ever since Siege of Dragonspear was released. The fact that GOG does no real moderation of their forum greatly exasperates this situation. Even if all GOG did was to ditch the forum reputation system and limit reviews to those accounts which own the game in their GOG account it would greatly remedy this gaming the system issue.
    I think you hit it on the head. It's clearly a marketing decision and pointing out the responsible party would only make the situation worse. Although, I can see why GoG mixes aren't limited to owners of the games. It is too bad they can't moderate reviews and mixes with false claims. But I think they would lose business if they did that. There is something to be said for both negative publicity and unadulterated reviews. It does prevent bias on the company's end which improves their reliability as a game distributor, even if it has some obnoxious consequences.
  • Wulf2kWulf2k Member Posts: 27

    (like saying the Enhanced Edition games don't give Black Isle credit)

    Not commenting on anything else because I haven't read the review, but where does Black Isle get credit?

    Honest question, not saying they do or don't, but I haven't seen Black Isle anywhere "in my face" yet.
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 636
    Wulf2k said:

    (like saying the Enhanced Edition games don't give Black Isle credit)

    Not commenting on anything else because I haven't read the review, but where does Black Isle get credit?

    Honest question, not saying they do or don't, but I haven't seen Black Isle anywhere "in my face" yet.
    If it has a Choose Game Screen(all but PST/SoD):
    Credits -> usually chronological order (oldest/original last/bottom).
    Every Game:
    Options -> Movies -> Orignal Credits
    typo_tilly
  • themazingnessthemazingness Member Posts: 113
    edited April 17
    What I find interesting is there are lots of times in the publishing industry (books, video games, or otherwise) where people do not get credit. I did important work on a huge Dead Sea Scrolls project as an undergraduate and didn't get credit at all. Most of the work was done by students but the professors that oversaw it all and double-checked it to ensure accuracy got the credit, and that's fine because their names hold credence over the students' names. James Earl Jones was not always credited as the voice of Darth Vader (of course this was at his request).

    I find it strange that not giving credit is even a point to bring up in a review. Beamdog had to get the rights, which means they could have been required leave the Black Isle loading screen in. Clearly they weren't. It really isn't up to the consumers what trademarks, copyright notices, etc. are given. That's the decision of the laws, rights holders, and publishers.
    taclane
  • Wulf2kWulf2k Member Posts: 27

    It really isn't up to the consumers what trademarks, copyright notices, etc. are given. That's the decision of the laws, rights holders, and publishers.

    That's a red herring. The discussion was never about the legality.

    Or maybe it was, but those people were weird and wrong.

    When you play this game, are you playing a Beamdog game? Or a Black Isle Studios game?

    Not legally, then the answer is "neither", but in the common sense of the phrase.

    You'd never know from playing the game. From JuliusBorisov's post, it would appear that "Black Isle Studios" no longer appears anywhere in the game itself.

    Is that right? Wrong? I dunno.

    It is what it is. Make of it what you will.
  • themazingnessthemazingness Member Posts: 113
    edited April 17
    Wulf2k said:

    It really isn't up to the consumers what trademarks, copyright notices, etc. are given. That's the decision of the laws, rights holders, and publishers.

    That's a red herring. The discussion was never about the legality.

    Or maybe it was, but those people were weird and wrong.

    When you play this game, are you playing a Beamdog game? Or a Black Isle Studios game?

    Not legally, then the answer is "neither", but in the common sense of the phrase.

    You'd never know from playing the game. From JuliusBorisov's post, it would appear that "Black Isle Studios" no longer appears anywhere in the game itself.

    Is that right? Wrong? I dunno.

    It is what it is. Make of it what you will.
    It's not a red herring. I'm the original poster of this thread, and it was one of my comments about it. I'm not detracting from my original post, just adding more thoughts to it. Saying that legality is irrelevant is attempting to detract my arguments though, which in itself is a red herring.

    You asked "Is that right?" The answer is, no, it is wrong. There are three places where credits are given to the original creators--the Beamdog "Opening" movie, the "Original Planescape:Torment" credits, and the "Credits." These are also the only places where Beamdog is mentioned aside from that note from Chris Avelonne. And you can hardly blame him for not crediting Black Isle when he's the representative from the original project.

    There is not one place where names are named (except the WotC Dungeons & Dragons screen) where Black Isle isn't there alongside Beamdog.

    So back to the original problem that I mentioned that you say I'm detracting from, it is patently false to claim that original credit isn't given. And the only reason legality is a part of it is because those are the normal ways American video game makers give credit. It's how it's done. But I would also argue that if that wasn't how it was done that it would be up to those involved how credit is given or whether it is at all. Just like I wasn't credited for the Dead Sea Scrolls and James Earl Jones wasn't credited for being the voice of Darth Vader, there are crediting decisions outside of the realm of legality. I gave those examples above so clearly I was arguing about more than legal issues. What I am saying is reviewers didn't make the game or have claim to it in any way except as players, unless by some slim chance they were on the original team (which is credited, so that would be a moot point).
    Post edited by themazingness on
    typo_tilly
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,072

    Wait, so GOG pulled the original PST from sale once the EE was released??

    Damn, that's a bad idea (whoever's it was).
  • taclanetaclane Member Posts: 280
    edited April 18

    And the only reason legality is a part of it is because those are the normal ways ...

    Legality is likely a trickier issue than most people give it credit for (no pun intended). Between the fire-sales at Interplay and Atari, I'm not sure how things ended up where, but it seems WotC owns the game and the setting, and Interplay has retained the Black Isle Studio mark.

    Due to licensing agreements, Interplay hasn't been able to produce or distribute D&D games (even ones they developed) for at least a decade now. That aside, there was some rumbling about Interplay restarting BIS back in 2012, but nothing came of it.

    Since Hasbro/WotC owns the game, I can see them being understandably leery about letting the old BIS title card stick around when the owner of the mark was likely digging it out to gain media exposure. Every person that was on the original team still has their personal credit, but unless Hasbro buys back the name, unintentionally advertising a zombie brand of a competitor is an awkward position to be in.

    So... funny story... it looks like WotC forgot to renew the US Trademark on "Planescape: Torment" and as of early this year, it was considered abandoned.
    Quick, who wants to help me start up a Planescape: Torment pizza chain? It's The Best Slice in all of Sigil!


    PS: How come nobody's upset that the TSR logo is gone? :tongue:
    Post edited by taclane on
    themazingnesstypo_tilly
  • themazingnessthemazingness Member Posts: 113
    @taclane Agreed. It would be a little strange to have the TSR splashscreen or video, so why include Black Isle? It makes much more sense to do the Beamdog splash screen with Black Isle credits on it. I wouldn't be shocked if Beamdog had included the Black Isle video, reviewers would complain about Beamdog destroying the game and causing it to look like Black Isle's work.
    typo_tilly
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 4,825
    I miss the TSR dragon. :c
    themazingnesstaclane
  • themazingnessthemazingness Member Posts: 113
    edited April 18
    I miss TSR in general. It isn't that I don't like WotC. But my favorite edition was 2e, and most of the settings from 2e days are now unsupported or just barely. And the video game market for D&D is just sad now, which is why I'm glad Beamdog is doing what they are doing. I just wish we had some new worthwhile stuff. Lord of Waterdeep doesn't count, and Arena of War (now non-existent), Sword Coast Legends, and Daggerdale all tanked. That leaves us with the MMOs or older games.
    typo_tillytaclaneValamirCleaverCuv
  • ValamirCleaverValamirCleaver Member Posts: 173

    And the video game market for D&D is just sad now, which is why I'm glad Beamdog is doing what they are doing. I just wish we had some new worthwhile stuff.

    If Beamdog would add the 4k display, UI & font updates that P:T - EE has to BG1&2, SoD & IWD and Obsidian or Beamdog would add modern OS, stability, 4k display, UI & font updates to both NWN1&2 while still keeping compatibility with existing mods; I would be the first in line to happily purchase them directly from Beamdog and/or Obsidian.
    themazingnesstaclanetypo_tilly
  • PekingduckmanPekingduckman Member Posts: 104
    edited April 19
    This is no surprise and it's literally one guy who is still butthurt over Siege of Dragonspear. The person who did this also did the same in the Steam forums and started a long thread accusing Beamdog of doing the same, and I've seen him leaving comments at random websites saying the same nonsense. He also started a Steam group as well, how pathetic.

    http://steamcommunity.com/groups/beamdogishit

    The biggest problem with GOG is that it allows anyone to review a game regardless of whether they have it in their account. The top review actually demanded Beamdog employees apologize to his small group of narrow minded bigots, LOL. Nevertheless, someone started this counter-GOGmix:

    https://www.gog.com/mix/beamdog_is_not_the_parasite_of_the_industry
    typo_tillysparkleav
  • taclanetaclane Member Posts: 280

    Nevertheless, someone started this counter-GOGmix:

    https://www.gog.com/mix/beamdog_is_not_the_parasite_of_the_industry

    And the thread comes full-circle.
    I'm pretty sure that "someone" is the same @themazingness that started this discussion. :wink:

    Still, it's good to see that PST:EE is gaining positive reviews. As noted in GOG's current top-rated review ("5/5! This game is great but I'm still upset about other games."), not a lot of people are having an issue with this particular release. If anything, they're holding a grudge for unrelated reasons.
    themazingnesstypo_tillysparkleav
  • arthrudecastroarthrudecastro Member Posts: 5


    Wait, so GOG pulled the original PST from sale once the EE was released??

    Damn, that's a bad idea (whoever's it was).


    I think the main reason of the hate is because of that: the original versions of BG I and II, IWD and now PST are not avaible for purchase. The only legal option is buy those EE. I really want to have those games, but I don't want a modded version labeled as "Enhanced Edition" on my account. So, how should I proceed?

    If Beamdog is really good at making those EE, why don't let the original ones on GOG for separete purchase, like it was before? It seems like they don't trust that their product will sell enough, so you need remove the option of choice from costumers.

    Of course, if this is not Beamdog's fault, then at least they can ask GOG to let the originals going back to the store - or even making a publicy note telling that is GOG fault. As long as this doesn't happen, Beamdog will be labeled as "the parasite of industry".
    typo_tilly
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 4,825
    edited April 24
    There's also a big price difference, isn't there? PST:EE is selling for $26 CAD. Wasn't the original only $10-15? If the EE version was only $0-5 dollars more, I think it'd be okay because the EEs include the original versions. So even if you didn't want the EE, it's not a lot of extra cash.

    I think a dev posted that Beamdog didn't make the decision to replace the originals with the EE+originals.
    taclane
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 390
    edited April 24

    There's also a big price difference, isn't there? PST:EE is selling for $26 CAD. Wasn't the original only $10-15? If the EE version was only $0-5 dollars more, I think it'd be okay because the EEs include the original versions. So even if you didn't want the EE, it's not a lot of extra cash.

    I think a dev posted that Beamdog didn't make the decision to replace the originals with the EE+originals.

    Yeah it's just a bit rotten. If someone wanted to play the game, but didn't want the EE version for whatever reason, they are now forced to get it. So I can definitely understand if people get angry over that. Even if it doesn't cost them that much extra.

    Oh well better for them to wait for sales I guess=P
    typo_tilly
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 4,825
    Yeah, wishlist the game and wait a few months for a sale notification email. I've passed on the goldbox games a few times now (on sale for ~$4-5 each) because I just don't have time to play them.
    batoorthemazingness
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