Right. Have played this game about 50 times since 1999, but discovered today new areas I haven't seen before. Man, I love this game. Give us more (the UB), Beamdog!
Revisiting The Alley of Lingering Sighs after the Alley's Birth reveals a new map, with the option of entering a house with a totally new (at least for me) layout. EDIT May 12: actually it uses the same layout as Shilandra's house, if my eyes and memory serve me.
If you don't intend to use Vhailor and you have a high enough charisma, you can convince him that his existence is meaningless. He will then self-destruct and you get a nice XP bonus.
If you ask the Pillar of Skulls who you are, and Vhailor is within earshot, he realizes *you* are the one he was hunting. He then leaves the party and attacks you.
If you have him around in Carceri and you allow Trias to leave at the end of the conversation, Vhailor kills him and you can loot him for the sword Celestial Fire - a great way for Lawful Good characters to lay their hands on this awesome weapon without having to betray Trias the Betrayer.
If you want to fight the Transcendent One at the end, and you choose the option that allows you to Raise your entire party, Vhailor gains a huge stat increase (+2,000,000 XP, 3 STR, +25 CON, +25 DEX).
The first time you reach level 7, you receive a specialization bonus based on your class (+1 strength for fighter, +1 dexterity for thief, +1 intelligence for wizard). If you then proceed to level 12 in the same class, you receive a much stronger specialization bonus:
+2 dex and +1 luck for thieves +2 intelligence, +1 wisdom, +5 lore for mages +2 strength, +1 constitution, +3 hit points, higher weapon proficiency cap for fighters
Inexplicably, "double specialization" also allows you to reclaim Morte from the Pillar of Skulls later in the game if you sacrifice him during that conversation.
If you don't intend to use Vhailor and you have a high enough charisma, you can convince him that his existence is meaningless. He will then self-destruct and you get a nice XP bonus.
If you ask the Pillar of Skulls who you are, and Vhailor is within earshot, he realizes *you* are the one he was hunting. He then leaves the party and attacks you.
If you have him around in Carceri and you allow Trias to leave at the end of the conversation, Vhailor kills him and you can loot him for the sword Celestial Fire - a great way for Lawful Good characters to lay their hands on this awesome weapon without having to betray Trias the Betrayer.
If you want to fight the Transcendent One at the end, and you choose the option that allows you to Raise your entire party, Vhailor gains a huge stat increase (+2,000,000 XP, 3 STR, +25 CON, +25 DEX).
In the vanilla game you can also get both tattoos from Fell this way. Sadly in PST EE if it happens, you get neither tattoos.
In the vanilla game you can also get both tattoos from Fell this way. Sadly in PST EE if it happens, you get neither tattoos.
I think Julius forwarded not getting any tattoo from Vhailor's actions as a bug, but truth be told you got both tattoos while also getting 375k XP twice in vanilla. I'd assume that would be considered a bug too.
As I wrote in a steam discussion: You either kill Trias, become evil/chaotic, get a sword and tattoo A or You redeem him, good/lawful deed, no sword for you, tattoo B or Your actions redem him but Vhailor's condemn him instead. So you don't redeem him in the end and you didn't kill him in the end, Vhailor did. Neither tattoo for you, but you do get a sword and prevent evil/chaotic hit to your alignment.
@Queegon Somehow this doesn't feel right, and it pretty much forces you to metagame, actually redeeming Trias, while having Annah pickpocketing him for the sword (unless you had enough of the mr good guy act). Your option C should unlock atleast one of the tattoos without becoming more evil. Most logical, the Tattoo of the betrayer.
The part I get stuck on is why it doesn't count as redeeming Trias if he dies right after? It's not like you don't count as redeemed unless you survive a month afterwards. You convince him to go back to being good. He's redeemed. Vhailor then kills him, because Vhailor's a jerk like that, but I don't really see how that makes Trias any less redeemed. It's not his fault Vhailor's axe-happy, and it certainly isn't yours (unless you're metagaming).
@Jarrakul Well technically Trias is persuaded by TNO to seek forgivness from "his father" (Zaphkiel?). So it's not TNO that redeems Trias, but himself.
There much much MUCH more hidden content that don't meant to be visible to gamer. Most of them only stub for NPC that never appear in final game. For example unnamed Curst citizen with follow dialogue (strref 3179 and 3181):
NPC: Heard around town you were lookin for a way into the Prison. Soon as I get dialogue, I'll tell you how. TNO: And then I can go get that treacherous angel Trias! Oh boy!
Ebb Creakknees had one original string that you'll never see (strref 11122, and only in original PST, PST: EE have more generic "NULL MODE")
NULL MODE - NOTIFY COLIN IF YOU HIT
Lothar had similar (strref 28685)
EMPTY NODE REPORT THIS TO COLIN IF YOU HIT IT
Colin McComb, of course. And here generic male Zombie (strref 3343, 3344):
NPC: I am one of the "rotting herd" of zombies that fill the catacombs. I shamble to and from work, just like Chris Avellone. Blah, blah. Blah? TNO: You smell like him, too.
Same for female generic Zombie (strref 3341, 3342).
Here trader (strref 3074, 3366):
NPC: I'm a bitch, I'm a liar, I'm a thief, I'm your mother, I'm an oozing sore that cannot be ignored... no, wait, that's Meredith Brooks. What I am is a salesman who lies and through my lies you can find the truth. Maybe. TNO: I'll be interested to see if the designer can pull that off. Should be fun!
Meredith Brooks is song singer, famous for her single "Bitch" which begins exactly same.
Annah can answer to Morte (strref 61777):
"Many a man's tongue's broke his nose, skull."
Which is quotation from Seumas MacManus, Irish writer
There in game punch daggers named "UMEI KAIHEN", which should be "UNMEI KAIHEN" ("alter fate") from "The Vision of Escaflowne" anime. Previous owner of daggers is "Hii 'toh 'mi" which is Hitomi Kanzaki from that anime.
There is another easter egg to old D&D Grayhawk setting - item "Eye of Vecna", which have lengthy story about Grayhawk's events.
Evisceraptor dagger (Unique, Artifact, Cheat), "unholy weapon is obviously intended for Quality Assurance to massacre any creature in their path as quickly as possible", which is pretty cheat: Damage 4-80 +20, +20 to AC, and sets all stats to 25.
But my most favorite UNSEEN string is "All work and no play makes Jim a dull boy." repeated many times from Testocle character (strref 24210) which is obviously from Shining movie.
When asking Vivian about her personal scent, she tells you she wants it back and she wants it now - an echo of the spoiled rich kid Veruca Salt in Villy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (the 1971 musical version).
If you think about it, the story Annah tells Yves the Tale-Chaser tells you a lot about what it must have been like for her to grow up with Pharod and his Collectors, if they would tell this kind of story in the presence of a "wee lass".
I heard a story when I was a wee lass.
This berk's walkin' home real late, near anti-peak, an' passes an old toothless crone in a dark an' otherwise empty street. 'Where yeh goin'?' she asks him. 'Home, to me wife an' kip,' he says. 'Near the Slags?'" she asks him. 'Sure enough,' he says. So she asks him a favor... ta take a box she's got ta Deader's Pit an' give it ta the woman there. Now this berk's a real sap, too nice ta say no despite the fact he's sure somethin's not quite *right* about this old crone, and agrees. 'But what's the woman's name?' he asks. 'Where does she live? Where should I look fer her if she's not by Deader's Pit?' The woman hands him the box - a wooden thing, wrapped in colored cloth - an' tells him ta just go, an' she'll be there. Finally, she warns him: 'An' whatever yeh does, do *NOT* open the box!' So he takes it home with him an' hides it in the rafters, thinkin' he'll bring it by Deader's Pit when it's light out. His wife, though, seein' him hidin' the box, gets right jealous thinkin' it's a gift fer a lover or somethin', an' opens it up as soon as he's not lookin'. Well, turns out the box was full o' gouged-out eyes an' severed male members with the hair still on 'em. Her scream brought the berk runnin'... he remembered what the crone said, got right scared and wrapped the box back up. He went out straight away ta Deader's Pit, an' sure enough there was another old hag waitin' there for him. He hands her the box, an' she says ta him: 'This box has been opened and looked into.' The poor berk tries ta deny it, but she gets this dreadful look on her face. 'Ye've done somethin' horrible!' she tells him, then disappears. That done, he hurries back ta his kip. He's feelin' ill when he gets back, an' takes ta bed. His wife bitterly regretted openin' the box an' all, but it was too late... the next day he died of a rottin' disease, an' the first things ta go was his eyes an' stem.
Morte at one point tells Fall-from-Grace that he is the head of Vecna. A nod to this wonderful hoax that had adventurers chopping off their own heads in blind greed.
@winterheart mentioned that there is a cheat weapon called the Eviscerator, which is a +20 weapon that gives you +20 AC and sets all your stats to 25. But would you believe it that there's an even more powerful weapon in the game's files? It may be the most overpowered weapon of any game ever. It's called the Sword of Wh'ynn. Here's its description:
SWORD OF WH'YNN (Unique, Artifact) Damage: 2-7 Slashing THAC0: +1 Speed: 1 Weight: 1 Proficiency: Edged Not usable by Priests
The Sword of Why'nn - also known as the Cheater's Blade - looks more like an ornamental dagger than a combat-worthy blade. Though not particularly well balanced, it has been enchanted with powerful magicks and is thus more effective in battle than a more 'common' knife. The Sword of Wh'ynn's greatest power, however, lies in its ability to let its bearer cheat: by merely holding the 'sword' aloft in a suitably melodramatic pose, its owner will beat whatever game the artifact's been found in.
There is unused dialogue with Vrischika (the curiosity shop owner) in which you buy it from her:
You examine an oddly shaped dagger presented on an ornamental display rack. A placard beneath the rack reads 'Sword of W'hynn.' Vrischika taps its pommel with her fingertip. "It's also known as the Cheater's Blade. Merely holding it aloft will win you the game. If you're certain you'd like it, I can place it in your hands for fifteen hundred copper commons."
Nameless One: "Win me the... what do you mean?"
Vrischika narrows her yellow eyes at you. "Oh, come now. You know *exactly* what I mean. Buy the Cheater's Blade, you beat the game. It's that simple... for only fifteen hundred copper commons. Do you want it, or no?"
Once you have the Sword of Wh'ynn and you use its ability, it gives you this dialogue:
The Sword of Why'nn - also known as the Cheater's Blade - looks more like an ornamental dagger than a combat-worthy blade. Though not particularly well balanced, it has been enchanted with powerful magicks and is thus more effective in battle than a more 'common' knife. The Sword of Wh'ynn's greatest power, however, lies in its ability to let its bearer cheat: by merely holding the 'sword' aloft in a suitably melodramatic pose, its owner will beat whatever game the artifact's been found in.
Dialogue option: Cheat: stand with your legs slightly apart, flex all your muscles and thrust the blade triumphantly towards the heavens.
A surge of power pulses through the Sword of Wh'ynn's blade; there is the peal of thunder somewhere in the distance. In moments, the endgame is upon you...
Imagine the weapon Umei Kahen, a 3-21 dmg fist weapon. That's 3d7 translated to dice language. With 0 luck you deal 3-21 damage. But at 5 luck? Each of the three dice rolls gets a +5 bonus up the max of the die highest side. Now your fist fights are pretty deadly as that damage becomes 18-21 instead.
I know this is off-topic, but I'd assume 3-21 translates into 2d10+1. Normally, there are no 7-sided, or other uneven-sided, dice in D&D.
Imagine the weapon Umei Kahen, a 3-21 dmg fist weapon. That's 3d7 translated to dice language. With 0 luck you deal 3-21 damage. But at 5 luck? Each of the three dice rolls gets a +5 bonus up the max of the die highest side. Now your fist fights are pretty deadly as that damage becomes 18-21 instead.
I know this is off-topic, but I'd assume 3-21 translates into 2d10+1. Normally, there are no 7-sided, or other uneven-sided, dice in D&D.
I based the dice number and number of sides on the damage I was dealing with it. It never went lower than what it would be, had the weapon been rolled as a 3d7... *flabbergasted*
If you have him around in Carceri and you allow Trias to leave at the end of the conversation, Vhailor kills him and you can loot him for the sword Celestial Fire - a great way for Lawful Good characters to lay their hands on this awesome weapon without having to betray Trias the Betrayer.
By the powers! I've been playing PST for years trying to get both the sword AND keep a LG alignment. Each time I've either kept the sword and lost the alignment or vice versa. I never could figure out how to get it and I never take Vhailor because I didn't like him.
Having it widely available in charm form is kind of bonkers, too. Swarm Curse lacks the confusion part at least, but that's nowhere near enough to make it a lvl2 spell.
Actions have consequences #1. If you turn in Vaxis, the fake zombie in the Mortuary, to either Soego or Dhall, you can not join the Anarchists later in the game. Scofflaw Penn will know that you betrayed the faction and deny any knowledge of the Anarchists.
Incidentally, Morte's Litany of Curses doesn't work on undead creatures. It doesn't work on Vaxis either, despite the fact that he is a fake zombie and not undead. Guess his disguise must be REALLY good.
Actions have consequences #2. Spoilered because this may be a bit NSFW...
If you ask Fall-From-Grace why she established the Brothel of Slat/king Intellectual Lusts, she gives the answer, "This brothel is intended to slate the lusts of even the hardened intellectual. It is designed to stimulate the mind, to heighten one's awareness of themselves and others, to create new ways of *experiencing* another person. It is for those who seek something more than the shallow physical pleasures that fill the Hive and Lower Wards."
Depending on whether or not you have had sex with a harlot, you can reply either
"Well, I wouldn't call them shall... er, I mean, I can understand that. The women here must be special, indeed." or
"I see. So this establishment just encourages intellectual fencing rather than, uh, well the *other* kind of fencing. The women here must be special, indeed."
Which answer you can give depends on the global variable "Banged_Harlot".
*Casts Raise Dead*
You probably already *know* that, but I think it is crazy and worth mentioning.
In the Curst Gone area you can encounter the Demon from Moridor's Box, and you can actually BEAT him. Combat is so out-of-balance that on easy difficulty you can just smash him, on medium you need a couple buffs and heals, but it's still doable without a party member dying (which probably wouldn't be that much a problem, I just try to avoid this, especially when playing good). That Demon is worth 500000 XP (!) and drops "Aegis of Torment" which may be the best ring in the game or should be one of the best, at least.
Killing Lothar makes Nameless and team members 127lvl each class. Experienced gained by this way is about -30000, which engine count as maximaized number of exp.points. But how to kill Lothar?
There are only 4 weapons which can hurt him:
1.Jester Axe(usable by Vhailor,magic damage attack, but only 2% probability per hit)
2."Teeth with ability of poisoning" (usable by Morte)
and for Namelessone there is
3 & 4. Ravel's fingernail or dustmen's punch dagger.
One spell is also working -Swarm Curse, so Dakkon will be also helpfull.
Also Nordom using bolt of Acheron is helpfull,as it makes Lothar stunned,which means every attack against him hit.
Lothar need to be confused or be scared so that he couldn't teleport team from area.
It's good to cast EnollaEve spell on Namless-one armed with Club of Nettles, so he can make Lothar confused. Also mage-Namless will do double damage with Curse Swarm while Enolla takes effect. When Lothar became panicked the weapon can be changed to Ravel's... The fight is long considered the fact of 32000 health points.
If there is chance for making worse Lothar saving throws(maybe some spell?), hits made by N.and Vhailor could damage with doubled effectivity.
Comments
EDIT May 12: actually it uses the same layout as Shilandra's house, if my eyes and memory serve me.
If you don't intend to use Vhailor and you have a high enough charisma, you can convince him that his existence is meaningless. He will then self-destruct and you get a nice XP bonus.
If you ask the Pillar of Skulls who you are, and Vhailor is within earshot, he realizes *you* are the one he was hunting. He then leaves the party and attacks you.
If you have him around in Carceri and you allow Trias to leave at the end of the conversation, Vhailor kills him and you can loot him for the sword Celestial Fire - a great way for Lawful Good characters to lay their hands on this awesome weapon without having to betray Trias the Betrayer.
If you want to fight the Transcendent One at the end, and you choose the option that allows you to Raise your entire party, Vhailor gains a huge stat increase (+2,000,000 XP, 3 STR, +25 CON, +25 DEX).
+2 dex and +1 luck for thieves
+2 intelligence, +1 wisdom, +5 lore for mages
+2 strength, +1 constitution, +3 hit points, higher weapon proficiency cap for fighters
Inexplicably, "double specialization" also allows you to reclaim Morte from the Pillar of Skulls later in the game if you sacrifice him during that conversation.
As I wrote in a steam discussion:
You either kill Trias, become evil/chaotic, get a sword and tattoo A
or
You redeem him, good/lawful deed, no sword for you, tattoo B
or
Your actions redem him but Vhailor's condemn him instead. So you don't redeem him in the end and you didn't kill him in the end, Vhailor did. Neither tattoo for you, but you do get a sword and prevent evil/chaotic hit to your alignment.
If you click it, you get this description:
This painting, on a velvet background, is poorly rendered and fuzzy. Looking carefully at it, you think it might be a woman.
NPC: Heard around town you were lookin for a way into the Prison. Soon as I get dialogue, I'll tell you how.
TNO: And then I can go get that treacherous angel Trias! Oh boy!
Ebb Creakknees had one original string that you'll never see (strref 11122, and only in original PST, PST: EE have more generic "NULL MODE")
NULL MODE - NOTIFY COLIN IF YOU HIT
Lothar had similar (strref 28685)
EMPTY NODE REPORT THIS TO COLIN IF YOU HIT IT
Colin McComb, of course. And here generic male Zombie (strref 3343, 3344):
NPC: I am one of the "rotting herd" of zombies that fill the catacombs. I shamble to and from work, just like Chris Avellone. Blah, blah. Blah?
TNO: You smell like him, too.
Same for female generic Zombie (strref 3341, 3342).
Here trader (strref 3074, 3366):
NPC: I'm a bitch, I'm a liar, I'm a thief, I'm your mother, I'm an oozing sore that cannot be ignored... no, wait, that's Meredith Brooks. What I am is a salesman who lies and through my lies you can find the truth. Maybe.
TNO: I'll be interested to see if the designer can pull that off. Should be fun!
Meredith Brooks is song singer, famous for her single "Bitch" which begins exactly same.
Annah can answer to Morte (strref 61777):
"Many a man's tongue's broke his nose, skull."
Which is quotation from Seumas MacManus, Irish writer
There in game punch daggers named "UMEI KAIHEN", which should be "UNMEI KAIHEN" ("alter fate") from "The Vision of Escaflowne" anime. Previous owner of daggers is "Hii 'toh 'mi" which is Hitomi Kanzaki from that anime.
There is another easter egg to old D&D Grayhawk setting - item "Eye of Vecna", which have lengthy story about Grayhawk's events.
Evisceraptor dagger (Unique, Artifact, Cheat), "unholy weapon is obviously intended for Quality Assurance to massacre any creature in their path as quickly as possible", which is pretty cheat: Damage 4-80 +20, +20 to AC, and sets all stats to 25.
But my most favorite UNSEEN string is "All work and no play makes Jim a dull boy." repeated many times from Testocle character (strref 24210) which is obviously from Shining movie.
AliceRavel (she was so much surprised, that for the moment she quite forgot how to speak good English).I heard a story when I was a wee lass.
This berk's walkin' home real late, near anti-peak, an' passes an old toothless crone in a dark an' otherwise empty street. 'Where yeh goin'?' she asks him.
'Home, to me wife an' kip,' he says.
'Near the Slags?'" she asks him.
'Sure enough,' he says.
So she asks him a favor... ta take a box she's got ta Deader's Pit an' give it ta the woman there. Now this berk's a real sap, too nice ta say no despite the fact he's sure somethin's not quite *right* about this old crone, and agrees. 'But what's the woman's name?' he asks. 'Where does she live? Where should I look fer her if she's not by Deader's Pit?'
The woman hands him the box - a wooden thing, wrapped in colored cloth - an' tells him ta just go, an' she'll be there. Finally, she warns him: 'An' whatever yeh does, do *NOT* open the box!'
So he takes it home with him an' hides it in the rafters, thinkin' he'll bring it by Deader's Pit when it's light out. His wife, though, seein' him hidin' the box, gets right jealous thinkin' it's a gift fer a lover or somethin', an' opens it up as soon as he's not lookin'.
Well, turns out the box was full o' gouged-out eyes an' severed male members with the hair still on 'em. Her scream brought the berk runnin'... he remembered what the crone said, got right scared and wrapped the box back up.
He went out straight away ta Deader's Pit, an' sure enough there was another old hag waitin' there for him. He hands her the box, an' she says ta him: 'This box has been opened and looked into.'
The poor berk tries ta deny it, but she gets this dreadful look on her face. 'Ye've done somethin' horrible!' she tells him, then disappears. That done, he hurries back ta his kip.
He's feelin' ill when he gets back, an' takes ta bed. His wife bitterly regretted openin' the box an' all, but it was too late... the next day he died of a rottin' disease, an' the first things ta go was his eyes an' stem.
Black Isle sure gave the NPCs a background!
(Unique, Artifact)
Damage: 2-7 Slashing
THAC0: +1
Speed: 1
Weight: 1
Proficiency: Edged
Not usable by Priests
The Sword of Why'nn - also known as the Cheater's Blade - looks more like an ornamental dagger than a combat-worthy blade. Though not particularly well balanced, it has been enchanted with powerful magicks and is thus more effective in battle than a more 'common' knife. The Sword of Wh'ynn's greatest power, however, lies in its ability to let its bearer cheat: by merely holding the 'sword' aloft in a suitably melodramatic pose, its owner will beat whatever game the artifact's been found in.
There is unused dialogue with Vrischika (the curiosity shop owner) in which you buy it from her:
Nameless One: "Win me the... what do you mean?"
Vrischika narrows her yellow eyes at you. "Oh, come now. You know *exactly* what I mean. Buy the Cheater's Blade, you beat the game. It's that simple... for only fifteen hundred copper commons. Do you want it, or no?"
Once you have the Sword of Wh'ynn and you use its ability, it gives you this dialogue:
Dialogue option: Cheat: stand with your legs slightly apart, flex all your muscles and thrust the blade triumphantly towards the heavens.
A surge of power pulses through the Sword of Wh'ynn's blade; there is the peal of thunder somewhere in the distance. In moments, the endgame is upon you...
Dialogue option: Watch it unfold...
Enter the Great Foundry (get Giltspur's quest to deliver a note to Keldor). Find Nadillin and either pickpocket or kill him for the portable portal.
Make sure to identify the portal.
Go to Clerk's Ward, enter the Brothel, and find Kesai-Serris. Kill or pickpocket her for the Bloody Handkerchief.
Use the portable portal to travel to Ravel's Maze.
THIS DECEMBER....(movie trailer voice)
Because it's not a lvl2 Spell.
Having it widely available in charm form is kind of bonkers, too. Swarm Curse lacks the confusion part at least, but that's nowhere near enough to make it a lvl2 spell.
Incidentally, Morte's Litany of Curses doesn't work on undead creatures. It doesn't work on Vaxis either, despite the fact that he is a fake zombie and not undead. Guess his disguise must be REALLY good.
Actions have consequences #2. Spoilered because this may be a bit NSFW...
Depending on whether or not you have had sex with a harlot, you can reply either
"Well, I wouldn't call them shall... er, I mean, I can understand that. The women here must be special, indeed." or
"I see. So this establishment just encourages intellectual fencing rather than, uh, well the *other* kind of fencing. The women here must be special, indeed."
Which answer you can give depends on the global variable "Banged_Harlot".
You probably already *know* that, but I think it is crazy and worth mentioning.
In the Curst Gone area you can encounter the Demon from Moridor's Box, and you can actually BEAT him. Combat is so out-of-balance that on easy difficulty you can just smash him, on medium you need a couple buffs and heals, but it's still doable without a party member dying (which probably wouldn't be that much a problem, I just try to avoid this, especially when playing good). That Demon is worth 500000 XP (!) and drops "Aegis of Torment" which may be the best ring in the game or should be one of the best, at least.
There are only 4 weapons which can hurt him:
1.Jester Axe(usable by Vhailor,magic damage attack, but only 2% probability per hit)
2."Teeth with ability of poisoning" (usable by Morte)
and for Namelessone there is
3 & 4. Ravel's fingernail or dustmen's punch dagger.
One spell is also working -Swarm Curse, so Dakkon will be also helpfull.
Also Nordom using bolt of Acheron is helpfull,as it makes Lothar stunned,which means every attack against him hit.
Lothar need to be confused or be scared so that he couldn't teleport team from area.
It's good to cast EnollaEve spell on Namless-one armed with Club of Nettles, so he can make Lothar confused. Also mage-Namless will do double damage with Curse Swarm while Enolla takes effect. When Lothar became panicked the weapon can be changed to Ravel's... The fight is long considered the fact of 32000 health points.
If there is chance for making worse Lothar saving throws(maybe some spell?), hits made by N.and Vhailor could damage with doubled effectivity.