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What would you like to see changed/added in a Hexxat (and Clara) mod?

BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 127
Hello all. Ratatoskr and I are currently working on a Mazzy expansion mod (All Things Mazzy), but in several months when that's done we are planning on tackling Hexxat.

So we were wondering what would you like to see changed or added? I probably won't spend much time trying to fix all the bugs with her. If there's a bug you can report it to Beamdog and hopefully they'll fix it in the next patch (I already reported a bug with her stupid Casket).

The Hexxat mod will have some things already (since they're being put in our Mazzy mod and will be copied into the Hexxat mod as well just with script so they only install once if you have both mods):

1)More people responding to Hexxat drinking Clara and some (like Mazzy or Keldorn) turning hostile and others either leaving, or joining Mazzy and Keldorn if they choose to fight. (Some people leave and you can get them again if you don't have Hexxat, some leave forever, and some won't fight on their own but will join Mazzy and/or Keldorn if they're there and turn hostile).

2) If you kill Hexxat then you can raise Clara (she rejoins your party dead). She's a level 3 Shadowdancer (we're saying she was only a high level before because Hexxat was controlling her. Otherwise her story doesn't really warrant a high level since she's just some peasant turned prostitute turned mediocre thief. But she'll level up fast.) I don't plan on doing much with the Clara NPC in our Mazzy mod as we're busy with Mazzy, but we needed a good resolution for that quest to fit with Mazzy as her character didn't seem like it would be ok with Clara just being eaten and Hexxat joining.

3) In the mod Mazzy and her will also have a scene after Hexxat sneaks out the first night to go drink some peasant girl which Hexxat admits when caught sneaking back in (she's really open about her daily murdering and feeding in all the in-game dialogue). Mazzy objects, which leads to more confrontation. Other than that we're not doing much with Hexxat in this mod since Mazzy and Hexxat are basically incompatible. For Mazzy, Hexxat is just a monster to be destroyed.

4) We have a continuation of Korgan/Hexxat's first banter which involves several more conversations that we felt were more Korganlike. It went in a weird direction and evolves into a strange, somewhat disturbing friendship, but we like it anyways.

5) We plan more expansion of Edwin attempting to get a hold of and use Hexxat's cloak for his own magic, along with her Casque (one of Edwin's life-goals is working out a spell of permanent mental domination so he can create an army of mind-controlled slaves to permanently travel with him).


So as I said, we will be doing a Hexxat mod in the next six months or so, so whatever else you want to see changed/added to that let me know. The more specific the better. Saying "I want more dialogue options when talking with Hexxat" is fine, but if you have specific conversations that really got on your nerves let us know since we'll track them down first when modding. For compatibility reasons I don't plan on destroying and rewriting any of Hexxat's conversations (no matter how much I'm tempted to do so sometimes), but I'm happy to add to a conversation in a compatibility-friendly way, like by giving the PC additional responses that can then take the conversation in a different direction.

Also if anyone wants to take on the writing for Clara (either now or later) let us know. We're always open to working with a 3rd person on writing provided you want to take her in the same direction we do, and you're willing to let us both edit what you write. We'll be as annoying editing your stuff as we are with each other. I'm happy to code any dialogues and add them into the mod, provided you don't give me any complicated quests or cutscenes to code (they take too much time to code and test given how inexperienced I am, and I'm busy coding Mazzy). But I've got coding dialogues down, so I can code them quickly no matter how convoluted.

Post edited by BCaesar on
lolienThacoBellVasculio
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Comments

  • RatatoskrRatatoskr Member Posts: 264
    You make us sound so terrible :) Just because I hate typos with a passion... And I suppose I actually have to play through Hexxat's full quest now. Sigh.

    lolien
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 773
    the clara part sounds the most interesting. she will have banters and an epilogue right? maybe be a romance option to replace hexxat?

    Attalus
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,063
    I only went with Hexxy once, but her dialog certainly can use a LOT of polish. There are a lot of out-of-character incongruities from what I can remember, things like her indirectly inviting you to ask about her life and then snubbing you rudely when you do etc. I'd have to play with her again to be specific, but I have neither the time nor desire to do so :P But I'm sure there are Hex-lovers out there with a list of grievances. Or a book. Possibly volumes.

    Attalus
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 752
    I think Clara deserves some expansion and I wouldn't mind being a part of that if you aren't doing overmuch with it. I can code my own dialogues and I don't mind my work being edited.

    Attalus
  • NeverusedNeverused Member Posts: 373
    Something that was suggested in another thread is to create a path where Hexxat doesn't instantly lolkill Clara upon freeing Hexxat, just so there's SOME possibility of a non-hardcore-evil group actually trusting her. Maybe offering some blood from CHARNAME (level drain?) to slake Hexxat's thirst, and in exchange Clara can return to the Coronet?

    Attalus
  • AttalusAttalus Member Posts: 148
    If you could rescue/raise Clara as a decent thief on the order of Yoshimo and stake Hexxat permanently, I would totally be on board with that mod. As to having Clara as a like third level thief of any description, I would at least give it a try. Staking Hexxat is not a deal-breaker for me and I would forgo that pleasure for rescuing Clara.

    leeux
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 2,615
    I would like another portrait for Clara, a more BG2ish version.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,063
    Borek said:

    Viconia should just Turn Undead and control Hexxat when she becomes annoying >:)

    That would make for a hilarious dialog option. Is it possible to script things so the two come to (non-lethal) blows and the resulting subsequent dialog changes based on who beat whom into submission and how, with a special one for turn/control undead?

  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,359
    I had some ideas for a Clara mod but I won't be able to pursue it, unfortunately. So I shall happily pass along this idea for anyone to use. This is some discussion about what I was thinking: have Clara "drop" a corpse that can be restored by a temple. This mechanism could also be used for Xzar, Montaron, Ajantis, maybe even Yoshimo, though that last might change a plot point too much.

    Attalus
  • WayniacWayniac Member Posts: 111
    I'd love to see a change during the moment where Clara is about to be killed. An option to intervene would be spectacular, giving the player the option of saving Clara and getting a human thief (good choice) or letting her die and getting a vampire thief (evil choice).

    As far as I'm aware, it would make Clara/Hexxat the only character in the game where you cannot possibly have both and you must choose one or the other and I think it would make the game much more interesting.

    Maybe even give them each character specific quests depending on who you're aligned with (thieves or vampires) to create a scenario where one must play through four times to accomplish every single quest. It would make sense too.

    Quest 1: Clara aligned with thieves has a special quest seeking vengeance upon the vampires
    Quest 2: Clara aligned with vampires grants a quest where she exacts vengeance on a thief who got her into her dire situation to begin with.
    Quest 3: Hexxat aligned with thieves reveals some kind of rivalry between her and Bodhi
    Quest 4: Hexxas aligned with vampires allows her to take advantage of yet another thief, much like she did with Clara

    I know this is a lot, but you asked for specific ideas, so I wanted to throw it out into the universe and see what it turns up.

    Attalus
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,450
    "Otherwise her story doesn't really warrant a high level since she's just some peasant turned prostitute turned mediocre thief"

    If a Clara mod stuck to those guiding principles it could be really interesting and different from the current NPC. Somebody a bit lost not so well defined, not so sure in their approach and without a personal goal, just trying to get by.
    So neutral alignment would make sense.

    Could have interaction with the prostitutes who don't have much input in the game.
    Interactions with thieves and peasants, again those who just make up the background.

    Keldorn, Anomen, Nalia, Edwin, Viconia, Valygar, Jaheira, Mazzy and Charname themselves are all quite self entitled. All have backgrounds that are "important", (Aerie and Haer Dalis as well) it's a really different angle to have a "nobody" thrown into the mix.

    AttalusArdul
  • AttalusAttalus Member Posts: 148
    edited April 23
    Wayniac said:

    I'd love to see a change during the moment where Clara is about to be killed. An option to intervene would be spectacular, giving the player the option of saving Clara and getting a human thief (good choice) or letting her die and getting a vampire thief (evil choice).

    As far as I'm aware, it would make Clara/Hexxat the only character in the game where you cannot possibly have both and you must choose one or the other and I think it would make the game much more interesting.

    Maybe even give them each character specific quests depending on who you're aligned with (thieves or vampires) to create a scenario where one must play through four times to accomplish every single quest. It would make sense too.

    Quest 1: Clara aligned with thieves has a special quest seeking vengeance upon the vampires
    Quest 2: Clara aligned with vampires grants a quest where she exacts vengeance on a thief who got her into her dire situation to begin with.
    Quest 3: Hexxat aligned with thieves reveals some kind of rivalry between her and Bodhi
    Quest 4: Hexxas aligned with vampires allows her to take advantage of yet another thief, much like she did with Clara

    I know this is a lot, but you asked for specific ideas, so I wanted to throw it out into the universe and see what it turns up.

    I love Quest 1. I would even further suggest that Bodhi started her on the road to ruin. Take tbone1's suggestion of her "dropping" a corpse (which I really like, btw, and would be on board with, totally if that were a choice) and you could resuscitate her in the SPOILER
    -
    -
    -


    Shadow Temple (youknowwhere) with Bodhi's heart or Hexxat's heart. Either would do. (really don't like Bodhi). :wink:

    leeux
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,359
    BTW, the idea of dropping a corpse, as it were, came from 1) giving up on Clara in that run where the code quirked and Hexxat didn't kill her, 2) finding Montaron's body in the Harper Hold, and 3) the Temple of Oghma having knowledge of how to restore a vampire to normal life. So I suspect a good bit of the code for this is already in the game.

    Attalus
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,450
    @tbone1

    Quick question.
    Where do you find Montaron's body?
    I know I found it once years back but can't remember where.

  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,359
    @UnderstandMouseMagic


    It happened after the face-off with Galvary or Cavalcade or whatever his name was. I hadn't looted the upstairs when I retrieved the bird, so I cleared out the upstairs and I am almost certain he was in one of the chests in the room with six or eight of them.



    Now, I don't always find it, and I think you have to play it something along the lines of what I did. But it does happen, and I could never find a use for it, which bothers the frugal engineer in me.

    lolien
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,450
    @tbone1

    Thanks for that.
    So after the Jaheira/Harper business.
    Was beginning to wonder if I'd dreamt it.

    As an aside, the things that always bother me having spare in inventory are demon hearts (after the Planar Sphere)
    Come on, somebody's got to want them for spells or something.

    tbone1
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,359
    @UnderstandMouseMagic

    I'm told they make for a dashed tasty turnip stew.

    ArctoduslolienThacoBellElendar
  • AttalusAttalus Member Posts: 148

    @tbone1

    Quick question.
    Where do you find Montaron's body?
    I know I found it once years back but can't remember where.

    It's in one of the lockers at the foot of one of the barracks bed in the Harpers' Hall after you defeat Galvaney. Not sure if it is there before.

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 330
    edited April 24
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,359

    Tbone1 beat me.

    With a +2 Club of Puns. Talk about bludgeon damage ...

  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 389
    edited April 24
    What a sap. But did you really need to hammer home the idea with bad puns? Seems batty.

    tbone1SomeSortThacoBell
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,359
    Nuin said:

    What a sap. But did you really need to hammer home the idea with bad puns? Seems batty.

    [golf clap] Bravo, well done!

  • AttalusAttalus Member Posts: 148

    I'm going to leave @BCaesar to reply to most of this, since he's better with the overall planning. I mostly just argue about commas :) But to answer a few of the questions:

    1. The choice is going to be Hexxat or Clara. You can kill Hexxat and then raise Clara or keep Hexxat and let Clara stay dead.
    2. Clara may start as a level 3 shadowdancer, but she's not going to stay there. She should level up quite quickly and the low start will give you lots of options on how to specialize your thief.
    3. At the moment, we have no plans to give Clara a romance, quests, or anything like that. But that's where someone else might come in, if they'd like to add that in themselves. We're not against the idea, we just have a lot of other things to work on and BCaesar is still learning how to code.
    4. Neither of us has actually played through all of Hexxat yet, but we'll do our best to make the story flow better. Calling her on her OOC BS seems like a good start.

    *Agrees happily*

    Neverused
  • BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 127
    edited April 25

    I think Clara deserves some expansion and I wouldn't mind being a part of that if you aren't doing overmuch with it. I can code my own dialogues and I don't mind my work being edited.

    Cool, well if you're interested we have a few things to finish first (and our "save Clara" part of the writing isn't quite edited to our satisfaction yet), but as soon as it is and saving Clara is coded in our Mazzy mod I'll let you know and you can download it and take a look at it. I'll send you the word file of the dialogues too so you don't have to read it all in code (though my code always has the actual dialogue listed as comments next to the tra reference so you can see what people are saying without looking at the tra file). On the safe side lets say 2 weeks and I'll try to have it done before that and then you'll be free to add whatever you want to it. The Clara stuff is in its own folder in the mod so you won't have to deal with coding from the rest of the Mazzy mod.
    Nuin said:

    Hexxat and Viconia. I REALLY don't understand the whole "girl power"/sexual tension vibe they have going on at the moment considering how careful Viconia is around potential threats (at least, when her arrogance isn't getting the better of her).
    If anything, around someone who Viconia perceives as having a similar mindset (both of them employ sob stories and are constantly trying to ensnare and manipulate other party members) Viconia would start treating Hexxat as she would another priestess of Lolth - rival, interloper, and (if Hexxat refuses to back down) potentially a threat that needs to be put down at the most convenient opportunity.

    Yeah I agree. Viconia has never had female friends and every female in her life (other than possibly Player 1) has been a potential rival who might kill her, and Hexxat actually kills people daily to eat and gives no other NPC (including Player 1) any real reason to trust her.

    As I said before we're not actually going to delete and re-write anything already in the game since that screws with mod compatibility, but we can add to it in order to try to make things fit better.
    Borek said:

    Viconia should just Turn Undead and control Hexxat when she becomes annoying >:)

    Now that would be funny. I don't think you can get full control an undead that's the same level you are, but maybe she could pull it off for a few seconds here and there. Something like this came to mind: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061023
    Wayniac said:

    I'd love to see a change during the moment where Clara is about to be killed. An option to intervene would be spectacular, giving the player the option of saving Clara and getting a human thief (good choice) or letting her die and getting a vampire thief (evil choice).

    As far as I'm aware, it would make Clara/Hexxat the only character in the game where you cannot possibly have both and you must choose one or the other and I think it would make the game much more interesting.

    Maybe even give them each character specific quests depending on who you're aligned with (thieves or vampires) to create a scenario where one must play through four times to accomplish every single quest. It would make sense too.

    Quest 1: Clara aligned with thieves has a special quest seeking vengeance upon the vampires
    Quest 2: Clara aligned with vampires grants a quest where she exacts vengeance on a thief who got her into her dire situation to begin with.
    Quest 3: Hexxat aligned with thieves reveals some kind of rivalry between her and Bodhi
    Quest 4: Hexxas aligned with vampires allows her to take advantage of yet another thief, much like she did with Clara

    I know this is a lot, but you asked for specific ideas, so I wanted to throw it out into the universe and see what it turns up.

    For Hexxat I plan to add in more stuff involving her and Bodhi. My basic background for Clara has her as a Shadow Thief (just a low level largely independent operator paying her cut so she's allowed to work in the city without having her legs broken).

    From her perspective she's an awful thief whose only strong point is she's good at escaping. So when she steals things she usually gets caught, but she always manages to get away in the end. She's starting as a level 3 Shadow Dancer with all of her points on hide-in-shadows and move silently. But she's only level 3 so you can easily put points on other things as she quickly levels up.

    BorekAttalusThacoBell
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 773
    i mean if you are going though all that trouble to bring back clara you should atlest give her some character to go along with it. this way people that refuse to use hexxat like myself can have a non mod pure theif to use.

    Attalus
  • RatatoskrRatatoskr Member Posts: 264
    edited April 25
    Well, the initial plan was to let you save Clara and then have her leave permanently since we're focused on Mazzy at the moment (and probably Hexxat later). Anything more than that is already a bonus.

    If Clara actually gets banters and such will depend on how much time we have and if someone else works out. Otherwise, you'll have a perfectly playable but quiet thief. Dialogue is more likely than any complicated quests since it doesn't seem that hard to add a few more interjections.

  • BCaesarBCaesar Member Posts: 127

    i mean if you are going though all that trouble to bring back clara you should atlest give her some character to go along with it. this way people that refuse to use hexxat like myself can have a non mod pure theif to use.

    Heh, bringing her back actually wasn't all that hard, though it's a little annoying trying to figure out how to make Hexxat stay dead. Maybe if I have a dialogue option of pulling her casket out of its bag of holding and burning her in her casket.

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