ranger or fighter cleric, dual or multi?
jesterdesu
Member Posts: 373
Hey all
Just a simple poll to test people's preferences on this.
Advantages to multiclass is simplicity and no down time, however I'd probably just CLUA a fighter/ ranger to 7 before dual classing and beginning the game as a lvl 1 cleric. I don't care about warrior hla's, when comparing to cleric ones.
Advantages to the dual class would be more cleric levels, which are arguably better than levels in any warrior type. It's also pretty nice to just follow the one class after dualing, rather than splitting xp for slower levels all round.
Cheers
Just a simple poll to test people's preferences on this.
Advantages to multiclass is simplicity and no down time, however I'd probably just CLUA a fighter/ ranger to 7 before dual classing and beginning the game as a lvl 1 cleric. I don't care about warrior hla's, when comparing to cleric ones.
Advantages to the dual class would be more cleric levels, which are arguably better than levels in any warrior type. It's also pretty nice to just follow the one class after dualing, rather than splitting xp for slower levels all round.
Cheers
- ranger or fighter cleric, dual or multi?37 votes
- multiclass67.57%
- dual class32.43%
1
Comments
That said, I do prefer the idea of Multiclassing, leveling up as both classes at the same time, plus you can really get some good THAC0 that way, which can have Draw Upon Holy Might thrown on top of.
Though I would go pure cleric. Class purist and all.
I'd vote multiclass F/C all the way. You're getting the same APR as the F(7)>C dual-class, (and it only requires two proficiency points in a weapon instead of five, so you can master more different weapons). You get much better THACO and save tables. You get fighter HLAs, (and even better, you get the option to take even *more* fighter HLAs with your cleric levels rather than wasting them on the cruddy cleric HLAs). You get access to the OP Hardiness + Armor of Faith + Defender of Easthaven combo for 85% damage reduction.
If you wanted to do something different, I'd suggest a Priest of Lathander dualed to Fighter at level 11. (Obviously more of a bummer in BG1 where you're stuck as a pureclass cleric your whole life.) You're getting spells up to level 6, but otherwise you're fighting like a pureclass fighter, (including getting both your level 7 and 13 bonus attacks *and* grandmastery, and fighter HLAs).
Plus, Boon of Lathander was really made for a fighter dual-class. More APR and damage? Yes please!
The biggest downside to dual is that you miss out on fighter HLA:s and that lvl 13 fighter is 1,250,000 XP, and getting your levels back after you multi takes another 1,350,000 XP for 14 levels clerics - basically, you wont be enjoying no dual class synergy goodness (cept for HP) til the end of SoA or even not until start of ToB!!!
Then again, dual allows you to pick kit. But then again again, multi allows halforc for str or dwarf for extra saving throws.
Still, in my book, dual wins over multi when it comes to fighter clerics, since I think fighter / cleric multi is redundant past level 13, as I just explained. 4 extra THACO... oh wait! Kit with berserker, now the difference is down to 2 extra THACO for multi.
Multi/dual fighter/mage or fighter/thief, or cleric/mage or cleric/thief all makes much more sense in my book - fighter high HP, high BAB, and the ability to use armor all overlap with cleric, while the fighters most fun ability to use any kind of weapons is wasted on the cleric. The only real benefit with fighter/clerics is 2 extra APR!
F(7)>C duals and F/C multis both cap out at 2.5 APR. You need a F(13)>C dual if you want to get all the way to 3.0 APR, which means lots of downtime and delayed HLAs.
(Or alternately you can do one of the wonky C>F duals. My aforementioned C(11)>F dual unlocks ~one million XP faster than a F(13)>C dual, gets fighter HLAs and Boon of Lathander, and still hits 3.0 APR with both Grandmastery and the fighter level 13 bonus. It also makes the best slinger in the game-- no, really-- provided you're not shy about prebuffing.)
I prefer a dual classed character only due to the fact that I'm super impatient and hate leveling multiclasses especially in late SoA/ToB. Plus as @JumboWheat01 mentioned, if you start with a kit you can get some interesting combo's. One of my favourite PC's was a priest of talos > fighter. He'd charge in after some minor buffing and destroy things. Was lots of fun!
With Fighters, it's pretty much the other way round. I don't like multiclassing Fighters, because their benefits peak fairly early. Now of course multiclass isn't BAD by any stretch, but considering that a lvl 9 fighter already gets GM, an extra 1/2 APR, maximum hit dice, and access to kit bonuses, to me that outweighs a bit more XP/THAC0 and the Fighter HLAs you'd get from multiclass.
As always, of course, the choice ultimately must be made according to individual setup and preferences.
End of discussion.
Close thread.
Think I'm gonna role a straight fighter with qstaff and hammer profs, then dual at 7 or 9 if I cba.
Ctrl 8 whilst in the abilities screen on character screen gives you a maxed roll btw
I now have one crazy-started monk, just to play around with, but for any PC going through BG first, you should leave with 19s on any stat you care about for your class, if you are happy re-assigning points at character generation, so all-18s is overkill, and rarely noticeable in practice after the first game (mostly, once you read the Str tome).
One thing to consider is that multiclasses almost never get any HLAs to begin with. A Ranger/Cleric multi will get 4 Ranger HLAs and 4 Cleric HLAs before hitting the 8m XP cap. A Ranger-Cleric dualed at level 13 will get 15 Cleric HLAs.
It might not matter much in this particular case because Cleric HLAs are pretty meh, but in case of dualing to a Thief or Mage who get great HLAs it would be something to consider.
Dual-classes don't get HLAs until their active class hits 3m XP, so as an extreme example, if you dual at 2.99m XP you won't get your first HLA until 5.99m XP. As a result, they get fewer HLAs than single-class or multi-class characters, though it won't really be that noticeable if you're doing a low-level dual.
(Also, again thanks to that massive gap between level 39 and 40, you can dual a level 12 Fighter into Cleric or a level 14 Fighter into Thief and you'll lose a grand total of one HLA by XP cap. Though it'll take you longer to get your HLAs in the first place.)
I'm exaggerating, but still. In case of a F/M/T, that means the Fighter class will get first HLA at level 13. Level 13! That's only 2/3 towards unlocking the class' full potential.
That's not really a High Level Ability anymore, is it...
Plenty of reasons to go single or dual!
P.S. Assasins, bounty hunters and avengers are overrated!!!
At least in the case of Berserker/Cleric(that I really, really want to make work)
If you dual at 13, you lose 8 ThAC0 and two tiers of saves. But you can hold out until level 17 for the best saves(and 4 more ThAC0) or until level 21 for everything that Fighter class can get you - that isn't a HLA.
Since Holy Power gives you a Fighter ThAC0 anyway, delaying until 21 is hardly necessary, but let's consider both scenarios:
Fighter 17/Cleric 33 gives you 12 Cleric HLAs. You lose two 7th level Cleric spell slots compared to max level Cleric.
Fighter 21/Cleric 29 gives you 8 Cleric HLAs. You lose three 7th level Cleric spell slots.
The difference between Fighter 17 and Fighter 21 is one million XP... so it's almost definitely not worth holding out for that long, especially since again, you can fix your ThAC0 with Holy Power. Hell, even if you couldn't do it, 4 ThAC0 isn't end of the world with Grandmastery and 25 Strength.
Now, 8 or 12 HLAs does not seem like much - hovewer all Cleric HLAs can only be taken once anyway! And there are a total of 8 of them. So Clerics simply do not benefit from having more than 8 HLAs. That's actually a point in favor of going Fighter 21.
I also think people undervalue some Cleric HLAs(like Energy Blades which is basically a Cleric version of Whirlwind and also gives you Improved Haste effect, or Storm of Vengeance which is basically AoE guaranteed cast interrupt for 3 rounds to anything that is not immune to cast interruptions. And Implosion is just good in general)
It is not a perfect replacement for natural THAC0, no it is not.