They've said that they plan to continue to make improvements post-ship, so maybe a UI for tablets can be part of that. Maybe instead of calling them lazy or saying that "this sucks, do it better", you could speak a little more specifically about what you'd like to see in a tablet UI.
I'd like to see a UI that:
- Only displays elements relevant to that character (no spell scroll icons for fighters). No giant dialogue box when there are no dialogue options.
- Places commonly used elements in the corners of the screen, so that they're accessible when holding the tablet with two hands. The pause button is probably the most-used button in BG, but it's awkwardly placed for a tablet.
- Displays the game full screen, without multiple UI elements hiding areas. UI elements that are opaque, not solid.
- Hides elements that aren't immediately useful for gameplay (spell scroll options, character sheets, etc).
- UI elements that change depending on context. Fighters only really require a "attack" and "guard" button, but rogues and casters require more.
- UI that allows small user customizations, so that users can decide how elements are placed.
- UI that improves on the original, allowing for immediate weapon swaps between 2handed and sword and shield, for example, and the ability to access all single use items in packs (like potions and wands) without being forced to revert to the inventory screen.
Here's two examples, the first from Dungeon Hunter II, the second from Grand Theft Auto III.
Note that each of these contains ~10 UI elements, with the bulk of them meaningful toward gameplay. Also note how they're positioned and colored so as to not distract from the action on screen. Most importantly, no UI element will cause a user to block the screen with their own hand when trying to do something.
Granted, BG's demands are larger than either of these two games. But Google up screenshots of Civ Rev's UI. Lots of options and layers of complexity there too.
- UI that allows small user customizations, so that users can decide how elements are placed.
- UI that improves on the original, allowing for immediate weapon swaps between 2handed and sword and shield, for example, and the ability to access all single use items in packs (like potions and wands) without being forced to revert to the inventory screen.
These have been requested, and especially the latter with great insistence. The devs are aware and both features are likely in their post-ship plans.
If I well understand there is extra background art in order to be compliant with wide screens.
Personally I would prefer to have extended dialog box, in order that it be in contact with lateral control area (like for tablet version). Dialog box have a black background, I think it would be more neutral than the blue art.
This has always been the game's behavior. There are no spell or thieving skill icons in Fighter-only bottom bars. Why do you think there are?
Look to your left. The game always displays spell icons, regardless of whether or not the selected character is a caster or not.
The game's original UI displayed all possible options and made all screens accessible from the main "world" screen. That was necessary in 1998, but it's not now.
It's also a terrible UI for tablets, which have much smaller viewports than desktops.
Personally I would prefer to have extended dialog box, in order that it be in contact with lateral control area (like for tablet version). Dialog box have a black background, I think it would be more neutral than the blue art.
I thought this too at first, but in practice, it's a good width for reading without having to turn your head.
Personally I would prefer to have extended dialog box, in order that it be in contact with lateral control area (like for tablet version). Dialog box have a black background, I think it would be more neutral than the blue art.
I thought this too at first, but in practice, it's a good width for reading without having to turn your head.
Alternative options:
- Fully extend the status/dialogue box to the sides, as in the original game, but simply wrap the text within it.
Personally I would prefer to have extended dialog box, in order that it be in contact with lateral control area (like for tablet version). Dialog box have a black background, I think it would be more neutral than the blue art.
I thought this too at first, but in practice, it's a good width for reading without having to turn your head.
- Fully extend the status/dialogue box to the sides, as in the original game, but simply wrap the text within it.
- Make the font larger.
I can say that I wouldn't like either option.
For the first one I don't see how having empty space inside the box is better than having empty space outside. I actually think that would be worse.
For the second one, making the font larger is a big no no since less lines would be displayed in the box. I already think that BGEE's font is too large as it is.
@Brude Thanks for posting those more specific comments; it's a lot more constructive than what I've seen up to this point.
The dialogue box is an appropriate size, largely because it's designed for ease of reading on a large screen so that you don't lose track of your line when tracking back to the next one (for reference, put a paragraph in Notepad, and maximize the window; with text wrapping, it's more cumbersome to read the paragraph when it's stretched horizontally like that, than if you shrink the horizontal to something more akin to an A1-size paper). The problem, if you ask me, is in its placement above the action icons in the middle of the screen. I'd much prefer it to be anchored to the bottom left (touching the left panel), with the action icons in two rows beside it. But then you get into issues of stretching when the window's size changes.
The pause button, incidentally, is already in the corner of the screen. So I'm not sure where would be a better spot for it.
Let's remember, though, that this is a game designed for combat strategy and minute tactics. It's not a game that you can just hold in your hands and play with your thumbs; in fact, I can't think of many iPad games that are designed that way. You hold it in one hand and play with the other, or you put it on a table and play with both.
The appeal here, to me, is the ability to touch exactly where on the screen you want to go, to be able to move the world around at literally the touch of a finger. I will agree that there's some work that could (should?) be done to better suit a tablet interface, but without having actually played the game on a tablet, I have no basis for comparison. No one does, for that matter, except the developers.
@Brude i also like the idea of wrap, but I think font have to stay quite small (there is a lot of battle stats that you do not want to read all the time)
Will it still possible to increase dialog box hight, like in BG2? (it was interesting when you search a dialog that you miss)
If I drew a list of reasons I am excited about bgee, the new UI would be way down the list. They could make it bright pink for all I care.
Having said that order of preference for me would be BG1 UI > BGEE UI > BG2 UI, but all are perfectly passable. I also expect that if you played bg1 UI at something like 1980x1080 resolution it would look a lot worse that it does at 640x480 so you have to factor that in to your calculations
The developers are trying to stay faithful to the original game's UI, and I wouldn't want anything different as the default. If Beamdog makes their own new game, and cover 40% of the screen with solid colored user interface, then I think you would have an argument to be listened to.
Perhaps in the future they could release a transparent UI, or maybe one that was customizable.
The developers are trying to stay faithful to the original game's UI, and I wouldn't want anything different as the default. If Beamdog makes their own new game, and cover 40% of the screen with solid colored user interface, then I think you would have an argument to be listened to.
Perhaps in the future they could release a transparent UI, or maybe one that was customizable.
Yeah, I can understand that to a degree. I also think it's a missed marketing opportunity.
Focus on tablets, release versions made for tablets.
On the PC side, include a single option that allows you to play the game with a UI that's absolutely faithful to the UIs of either BG1 or BG2.
In other words, you make that UI an extra on the PC side, and spend your early attention on delivering an outstanding tablet experience.
Other interesting option would be having something similar to windows OS main bar vanishing system. When buttons are not used, only portraits and dialog would be visible, and when you move the mouse close to the border of the screen menu will slide back in the screen.
Could be a way to keep original BG2 UI menus, but such system could offer a more full screen experience.
I hope that it will be considered for future update (Christmas will be close from the release date, it's time to initiate a new wish list ^^)
And seriously: they unhardcoded it. There will be probably tons of different GUI to download... So if you don't like it: just wait for modders... or small DLCs maybe?
And seriously, if GUI is your biggest concern AND you didn't even have opportunity to try it by yourself, then I think you just whine for the sake of it
The BG Widescreen example you gave has much more "Large amount of wasted space" as you put it, than the new BG:EE interface has.
I posted that as an example of larger text at higher resolutions, and to show something which I think is better balanced than the new UI.
If we're talking wasted space, then I argue that a dedicated, always-on status area isn't at all necessary for a game like this.
Games like Warcraft, Dungeon Hunter, KotOR, and Jade Empire are good examples that give players visual representations of status updates (dialogue, damage, etc) without having a block of space for it on every screen.
If I ever come to notice the GUI in a game it means it's in my way while playing. I think I won't notice BG:EE UI as I don't notice BG 2 or BG when playing.
The BG2 engine has nothing to do with BG2 environment graphics, since the game is BG1, and the art is THE SAME, just in different resolution.
One last time : " BG:EE is BG1 reworked. The environment art is BG1, in higher resolution. It has no difference in quality from BG2 anyway, if you see it at the same resolutions.
The character art is BG2 by default because it supports dual wielding fully, however the BG1 character art will be available as well by launch or soon afterwards".
Languish in damnation and boooo yada yada.
Bleh. You should bow down to Sir Kittens for your insolence.
Gentlemen, we have war...
^ -> Helmet against "Too bad for you" non-arguments! Pf!
Comments
Don't lose your sleep over opinions of others now.
Passing your opinion as fact and trying to undermine another's opinion?
We are not amused...
P.S. BG2 graphics suck
Cat with monocle -> philosophy brought to the next level.
I'd like to see a UI that:
- Only displays elements relevant to that character (no spell scroll icons for fighters). No giant dialogue box when there are no dialogue options.
- Places commonly used elements in the corners of the screen, so that they're accessible when holding the tablet with two hands. The pause button is probably the most-used button in BG, but it's awkwardly placed for a tablet.
- Displays the game full screen, without multiple UI elements hiding areas. UI elements that are opaque, not solid.
- Hides elements that aren't immediately useful for gameplay (spell scroll options, character sheets, etc).
- UI elements that change depending on context. Fighters only really require a "attack" and "guard" button, but rogues and casters require more.
- UI that allows small user customizations, so that users can decide how elements are placed.
- UI that improves on the original, allowing for immediate weapon swaps between 2handed and sword and shield, for example, and the ability to access all single use items in packs (like potions and wands) without being forced to revert to the inventory screen.
Here's two examples, the first from Dungeon Hunter II, the second from Grand Theft Auto III.
Note that each of these contains ~10 UI elements, with the bulk of them meaningful toward gameplay. Also note how they're positioned and colored so as to not distract from the action on screen. Most importantly, no UI element will cause a user to block the screen with their own hand when trying to do something.
Granted, BG's demands are larger than either of these two games. But Google up screenshots of Civ Rev's UI. Lots of options and layers of complexity there too.
Personally I would prefer to have extended dialog box, in order that it be in contact with lateral control area (like for tablet version). Dialog box have a black background, I think it would be more neutral than the blue art.
The game's original UI displayed all possible options and made all screens accessible from the main "world" screen. That was necessary in 1998, but it's not now.
It's also a terrible UI for tablets, which have much smaller viewports than desktops. Unfortunately, I'm rather cynical. The "post ship" list gets longer and longer, but most of it doesn't seem to be anything Beamdog can monetize.
Based on past experience, this suggest to me that most of those features will never see the light of day.
- Fully extend the status/dialogue box to the sides, as in the original game, but simply wrap the text within it.
- Make the font larger.
For the first one I don't see how having empty space inside the box is better than having empty space outside. I actually think that would be worse.
For the second one, making the font larger is a big no no since less lines would be displayed in the box. I already think that BGEE's font is too large as it is.
The dialogue box is an appropriate size, largely because it's designed for ease of reading on a large screen so that you don't lose track of your line when tracking back to the next one (for reference, put a paragraph in Notepad, and maximize the window; with text wrapping, it's more cumbersome to read the paragraph when it's stretched horizontally like that, than if you shrink the horizontal to something more akin to an A1-size paper). The problem, if you ask me, is in its placement above the action icons in the middle of the screen. I'd much prefer it to be anchored to the bottom left (touching the left panel), with the action icons in two rows beside it. But then you get into issues of stretching when the window's size changes.
The pause button, incidentally, is already in the corner of the screen. So I'm not sure where would be a better spot for it.
Let's remember, though, that this is a game designed for combat strategy and minute tactics. It's not a game that you can just hold in your hands and play with your thumbs; in fact, I can't think of many iPad games that are designed that way. You hold it in one hand and play with the other, or you put it on a table and play with both.
The appeal here, to me, is the ability to touch exactly where on the screen you want to go, to be able to move the world around at literally the touch of a finger. I will agree that there's some work that could (should?) be done to better suit a tablet interface, but without having actually played the game on a tablet, I have no basis for comparison. No one does, for that matter, except the developers.
@Brude i also like the idea of wrap, but I think font have to stay quite small (there is a lot of battle stats that you do not want to read all the time)
Will it still possible to increase dialog box hight, like in BG2? (it was interesting when you search a dialog that you miss)
Yeah, you can still increase the hight of the message box.
Having said that order of preference for me would be BG1 UI > BGEE UI > BG2 UI, but all are perfectly passable. I also expect that if you played bg1 UI at something like 1980x1080 resolution it would look a lot worse that it does at 640x480 so you have to factor that in to your calculations
The developers are trying to stay faithful to the original game's UI, and I wouldn't want anything different as the default. If Beamdog makes their own new game, and cover 40% of the screen with solid colored user interface, then I think you would have an argument to be listened to.
Perhaps in the future they could release a transparent UI, or maybe one that was customizable.
BG1 with some widescreen mods offers the option to increase the font size at higher resolutions.
Here's an example at 1280x760. (Click through to see it full size).
That's more visually balanced without creating ridiculously long text lengths.
BG:EE went a different route. They made the text area default to a tablet size, and simply created dead/ whitespace on higher viewports.
That's an option, sure, but for my money it throws off the screen's visual balance.
The pause button is flush against the bottom left edge, which means you'll have to always shift your hand to reach it.
The BG Widescreen example you gave has much more "Large amount of wasted space" as you put it, than the new BG:EE interface has.
Focus on tablets, release versions made for tablets.
On the PC side, include a single option that allows you to play the game with a UI that's absolutely faithful to the UIs of either BG1 or BG2.
In other words, you make that UI an extra on the PC side, and spend your early attention on delivering an outstanding tablet experience.
Could be a way to keep original BG2 UI menus, but such system could offer a more full screen experience.
I hope that it will be considered for future update (Christmas will be close from the release date, it's time to initiate a new wish list ^^)
I actually like new GUI
And seriously: they unhardcoded it. There will be probably tons of different GUI to download...
So if you don't like it: just wait for modders... or small DLCs maybe?
And seriously, if GUI is your biggest concern AND you didn't even have opportunity to try it by yourself, then I think you just whine for the sake of it
If we're talking wasted space, then I argue that a dedicated, always-on status area isn't at all necessary for a game like this.
Games like Warcraft, Dungeon Hunter, KotOR, and Jade Empire are good examples that give players visual representations of status updates (dialogue, damage, etc) without having a block of space for it on every screen.
Still Alive For The Win
One last time : " BG:EE is BG1 reworked. The environment art is BG1, in higher resolution. It has no difference in quality from BG2 anyway, if you see it at the same resolutions.
The character art is BG2 by default because it supports dual wielding fully, however the BG1 character art will be available as well by launch or soon afterwards".
Languish in damnation and boooo yada yada.
Bleh. You should bow down to Sir Kittens for your insolence.
Gentlemen, we have war...
^ -> Helmet against "Too bad for you" non-arguments! Pf!