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"Best" Good Party Mage ?

2

Comments

  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 276
    @Quartz Hold Person is pretty great for him, too.
    Quartz
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    Quartz said:

    SomeSort said:

    DonCzirr said:

    I see Dynaheir cannot cast the key crowd control spells – but as mentioned that would be fine as my PC can fill in the gap.

    This is actually a complete and total non-issue.
    I really wouldn't call her terribly-empty fourth level spellbook a non-issue ... but OK.

    Dynaheir is just fine other than that, don't get me wrong, but her fourth level spellbook leaves a lot to be desired. No Confusion, Emotion: Hopelessness, nor Greater Malison? Yikes.
    Different strokes for different folks, I guess. For me, level 4 in her spellbook is right when her power starts to spike, and where she really benefits from being a one-trick-pony in the crowd control department. Really her only Crowd Control trick is casting Web with a -4 to saves... but since Web is the best crowd control spell in the game and -4 to saves is unbelievable in BG1, that's the only trick she needs.

    So what does level 4 bring? Minor Sequencers to double her web-casting speed and Spider Spawn, which is the jelly to Web's peanut butter. Sure, Xan gets Confusion, but Confusion is a straight downgrade to Web mechanically whose only saving grace is that it's party friendly. But so is Web once you get the two Rings of Free Action and Spider's Bane.

    Emotion is basically a wash with Web mechanically (again, ignoring the party-friendly aspect). Both last for a turn, both give -2 to saves (with a further -2 for the specialist bonus), but Web forces a save every round or be disabled for a round, whereas Emotion just forces the one save or be disabled for the duration. But Web is stackable, easier to aim (since you can lure enemies into the area after the fact), and you'll have twice as many casts. Plus you can sequence it.

    It's common for my Dynahiers to not have a single damage spell memorized from level 2 through 4. It's Webs, Slows, Hastes, Sequencers, and Spiders all the way down. If she wants a fireball she'll use a wand. (Though I usually do toss in a Melf's Minute Meteors, because I love that spell.)

    Obviously levels 1 and 5 are mostly Missiles and Clouds.
    QuartzAerakar
  • CabushaCabusha Member Posts: 5
    I recently did a run with Xan as the party mage. No MM for him (or fireball, etc), but he can use a wands just fine. He comes with Sleep which is absurdly good in BG1. Seriously, cast sleep on a pack of gnoll laugh as 5 or 6 pass out and your fighters/archers murder their way through. I'd recommend him.

    Dual classing Imoen to a mage at 6 or 7 isn't a bad way to go either.

    Dynaheir has always been solid, but I'm a bit bored of her.
    QuartzThacoBell
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 814
    For a good party, it's Neera hands-down for the entire saga (if you're going for raw power). Personality is subjective, but I like her.

    If you can find another mage who can technically cast time stop at level 1, then by all means...
    Quartz
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,703
    edited May 24
    @SomeSort Umm ... Whether or not AoE is party-friendly is kind of a huge deal. I don't know how you play that it makes no difference to you -- I'm genuinely mystified.
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 303
    Quartz said:

    @SomeSort Umm ... Whether or not AoE is party-friendly is kind of a huge deal. I don't know how you play that it makes no difference to you -- I'm genuinely mystified.

    If he plays anything like me in most fights he draws the fights to him. Forcing the enemies to go through an area where you can hit them with aoe's that never touch your party and making the party friendly nature of it kind of less of an immediate issue. Combined with certain effects that make some of the aoe potentials ineffective against party members or members highly resistant to it and this further decreases them as an issue. Giving things like your melee characters a greater area to engage in that gives more space to your ranged characters.

    SomeSort
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    Quartz said:

    @SomeSort Umm ... Whether or not AoE is party-friendly is kind of a huge deal. I don't know how you play that it makes no difference to you -- I'm genuinely mystified.

    I play where I get a Ring of Free Action from Dushai in Ulgoth's Beard, a second Ring of Free Action from the Iron Throne building in Baldur's Gate, and Spider's Bane from the Cloakwood forest, giving everyone in my party who will be in melee range of the enemy immunity to web. Which makes web party-friendly.

    Now, granted, I don't have all of that stuff in the first three chapters, (though you can get Dushai's ring whenever you want). But you don't have Emotion: Hopelessness and Chaos in the first three chapters, either. (You can likewise get them whenever, but you've got to get the levels first to cast them.) By the time you're getting party-friendly AOE spells, you're also getting the means to make Web party-friendly.

    And for the half of the game or so *before* you get to that point, Web has no competition in the crowd-control department. Slow is great, but a held enemy is much deader than a slowed enemy.
    Quartz
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 1,242
    First time I played Xan I was pretty darn impressed with him casting a greater mailson followed by emotion. Even the dopplegangers were dropping like flies, esp. when I had a dirgesinger belting out a nice depressing song giving the addition of -2 to saves on top of all that.
    Aerakar
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    Zaghoul said:

    First time I played Xan I was pretty darn impressed with him casting a greater mailson followed by emotion. Even the dopplegangers were dropping like flies, esp. when I had a dirgesinger belting out a nice depressing song giving the addition of -2 to saves on top of all that.

    Add a Doom and upgrade to Chaos and enemies are saving at -14. (-12 without the dirgesinger.) At that point, even ToB foes are going to fail 90% of the time, and high-end creatures with a save vs. spells of 1 are going to get caught 70% of the time.

    Switch to Feeblemind and your chances go down 10%, but immunities become rarer and the outcome is essentially instant death.

    Those two spells are why I say Enchantment is the best specialist school despite not having any spells higher than level 5. An extra 10% to land them is huge, given the penalties they already have.

    ZaghoulThacoBellQuartzAerakar
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 1,242
    @somesort Yep, there is definitely something to be said for enchantment once one really gives it a serious go. I wanted to try it partly just because of all the flak it and Xan often get. I mean you get THAT plus wands of all sorts for him to use. Granted he does not fit some of my parties but when he does, he's there.
    QuartzAerakar
  • dac0152dac0152 Member Posts: 30
    The main issue with Xan isn't lack of access to MM - wands have you covered - but rather Web, but he still can disable people with ease due to his save modifier on his spells, especially if you get a Greater Malison off. Glitterdust is a good lvl 2 substitute for Web; sure it doesn't render them immobile, but archers and mages are completely useless once blinded, and anything in melee won't be able to hit you and will die quickly. Plus you don't have to worry about Free Action or getting caught or someone passing a save and escaping suddenly.

    Meanwhile pretty much everything Dynaheir can do can be replicated by a wand, and she comes in a pair which can be annoying if you don't want to take Minsc (I know, I know).
    QuartzAerakar
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,703
    edited May 26
    @dac0152 I hear ya. I tend to give Xan a lot of Glitterdust and Horror for his level 2 slots.

    Also Grease is super underrated.
    Post edited by Quartz on
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    dac0152 said:

    The main issue with Xan isn't lack of access to MM - wands have you covered - but rather Web, but he still can disable people with ease due to his save modifier on his spells, especially if you get a Greater Malison off. Glitterdust is a good lvl 2 substitute for Web; sure it doesn't render them immobile, but archers and mages are completely useless once blinded, and anything in melee won't be able to hit you and will die quickly. Plus you don't have to worry about Free Action or getting caught or someone passing a save and escaping suddenly.

    Meanwhile pretty much everything Dynaheir can do can be replicated by a wand, and she comes in a pair which can be annoying if you don't want to take Minsc (I know, I know).

    Worth noting that Xan fares a lot better in a 2.x patch environment than a 1.3 patch environment, (say, if you're playing on iOS). Blinded enemies in 1.3 run around randomly, which makes them a pain to chase down and often results in waking up new monsters in the process, so Glitterdust isn't a great substitute for Web.

    Also, pretty much everything Dynahier does can be replaced by a wand... except for those ridiculous -4 save Webs. :)
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,703
    SomeSort said:

    Also, pretty much everything Dynahier does can be replaced by a wand... except for those ridiculous -4 save Webs. :)

    I dig that this is an actual argument now. I'm glad Beamdog implemented the saving throw bonus. Before that, Conjurer was basically the no-brainer choice for Specialist Mage.

    Especially in Vanilla BG where you could dual-class Imoen to Conjurer, LOL.
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 303
    The acid arrow spell can be good for temporarily shutting down enemy mages as well. It may be level 3 though. Honestly I don't keep track of the exact levels of all the spells anymore. Just the ones I want for the style I'm playing.

    But I'm not sure that Xan gets Acid Arrow. I don't remember being able to use it on him Last time I was running around with him in my party.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    @fateless - Melf's Acid Arrow is a Conjuration, not an Evocation, so yes, Xan can do that one.
    ThacoBellQuartzrorikon
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    edited May 27
    Quartz said:

    SomeSort said:

    Also, pretty much everything Dynahier does can be replaced by a wand... except for those ridiculous -4 save Webs. :)

    I dig that this is an actual argument now. I'm glad Beamdog implemented the saving throw bonus. Before that, Conjurer was basically the no-brainer choice for Specialist Mage.

    Especially in Vanilla BG where you could dual-class Imoen to Conjurer, LOL.
    I agree that there are great answers to "which specialist mage should I get" other than "Conjurer and let your cleric cast True Sight", and that this is awesome. (I've recently started playing with the More Style for Mages mod, which does even more to differentiate the specialists and which is what sparked my love for Invokers.)

    It's especially good that we're moving away from the decade-long consensus that the only decent choices were Conjurer or Generalist, (Illusionist if Gnome), given that Conjuration is actually one of the least-useful schools for me. It's basically just Glitterdust, Flame Arrow, and Power Word: Blind, with plenty of alternatives available. They gallingly don't even get the best summons, which belong to Necromancy (Animate Dead), Invocation (Mordenk's Sword), and all (Planetar).

    With that said, it's my understanding that the save penalties on in-school spells is like the -15%/+15% chance to learn spells in that it was always hardcoded into the game, it just wasn't documented. So it wasn't really widely known until Beamdog dug around and confirmed its existence.

    (Which makes me a little bit sad thinking about all those years I could have been running Enchanters, Invokers, and Necromancers instead of wasting my time with yet another Conjurer.)
    AerakarQuartz
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 303

    @fateless - Melf's Acid Arrow is a Conjuration, not an Evocation, so yes, Xan can do that one.

    thank you for the clarification. I must have just somehow missed giving him a scroll of it or something then. I don't tend to buy a lot of scrolls because so many are picked up repeatedly.

  • Wandering_RangerWandering_Ranger Member Posts: 115
    For good or neutral parties, I would say Dynaheir, for the aforementioned web spell. It's even better now that the specialist bonuses have been added.

    The only spell she is really missing from her repertoire is sleep - which you can obtain via a wand before you even get Dynaheir herself. The spell actually becomes useless the further you get into the game, so I've never seen it as an issue. Sell and re-buy to recharge as needed.

    The other good enchantment spells (like confusion) are not as good as web, and the saving throws are not high enough in BG1 to have such a huge concern over the lack of greater malison. (For BG2, my arguments would change.)

    Dynaheir can not only disable with web (with her added specialist bonus, to boot), she can launch fireballs at will as well, so she is also good for mass destruction. Her crowd control is thus well-rounded, unlike Xan who can only do the disable part (and less effectively, again, due to the power of web).

    That said, Xan is still viable because a wand of fire can replace his lack of destruction. Nothing at all can be done for his lack of magic missile (after all, this is a spell no one casts before level 3 at the earliest , and a wand only gives you a single, crappy missile). As a quick side note, Larloch's minor drain is better for the earlier levels, as it not only casts super fast (can disrupt enemy mage spells), it also gives the mage some nice extra hp at a time they need it most. Xan also can't cast web, and that spell can't be replaced by a wand, which is an issue.

    Stat wise, Dynaheir is better off than Xan, simply due to her high CON. Mages are very squishy in BG1, and there have been lots of times when even 2 or 3 points of hp have made the difference between life and death. Dynaheir's "flaw" (if you can consider it that) is the fact she is saddled with Minsc, so if you do not want him, then you have to kill him off or leave him in some building somewhere.

    (If we aren't arguing simply for good aligned pure-class mages, I would rank Edwin as best by far, followed by Xzar, then Dynaheir, then Xan. Neera would be somewhere up there for most, but I rank her dead last due to the unpredictability of wild magic... Her stats are also nothing special. Dualing Imoen early can be a nice option for a good-aligned mage as well, if you are so inclined, and Quayle is not too horrific either for some versatility. Baeloth should be killed outright for participating in slavery, but he's up there, second to Edwin, in terms of power if you do choose to recruit him. Also, if you rush the game until you get the tome of Intelligence, Safana can also be a mage, and will have developed her thief skills to a reasonable point as well before that happens. I doubt many players do this, but it's worth mentioning as a possibility.)

    TL;DR - Xan can get a wand of fire to compensate for fireball, but nothing at all can compensate for his lack of magic missile and web (spells which are always relevant).

    Dynaheir can disable with web and destroy with fireball, and her only weakness (lack of sleep - a spell which becomes useless as you go) can be replaced by a wand. Other good enchantment spells are not worth the trade-off for web (which is better than they are), and greater malison is not a huge deal in BG1 due to enemies not having absurdly high saves at these levels. Superior stats (HP in particular) means that for me, she beats Xan outright as the best crowd controller in the game, because she can cover both disabling and damaging aspects effectively. Go with Dynaheir and you will not have any issues. (If you recruit her at higher levels, she will already have fireball inscribed in her spellbook.)
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 1,242
    So I'm curious here, apart from stats, power, etc. who do people like as the best mage on a personality lvl?

    I really don't care for any of the 'good' mages or potential mages in BG1, Closest would be LN Xan with his extended banters mod. But going off the good scale it would be CE Xzar with BGNPC Project mod. I actually think depressed and a bit of insanity can often have interesting insights to the world.
    Although I will say the Dynaheir romance was not to bad at all, with a very nice surprise at the end.
  • Artemius_IArtemius_I Member Posts: 1,853
    edited May 28
    @Zaghoul

    My personal preference for mages:

    1. Imoen
    2. Xan
    3. Aerie
    4. Dynaheir
    5. Nalia
    6. The rest
    7. Edwin
    8. Xzar

    EDIT:
    9. Jan
    Aerakar
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 1,242
    @Artemius_I Immy huh. I actually never took her all the way through ever. The romance mod with her seems like it might bring new light to her (even though I am reminded of the movie 'Joe Dirt' for some reason. ;)

    Por lil ol Mr. Turnips at the Bottom? Yeah, he is probably not everyone cup o tea for sure. I usually take him along but I will admt he can be a bit long winded with those stories. Korgan seems to like him though. I always wanted his quest line to go more into his ex's mafia like new husband. Seems like it would have brought out the 'revenge' in him a bit more, after his last meeting with that guy in the turnip house. And Im sure a gnomish Il/Th could think of all sorts of pain to have brought that dude.

    You think you'll ever try your hand at a mage NPC for BG?

    Oh, and thanks again for pickin up with the PM that @shawne did, LOVIN it. :)
    Aerakar
  • Artemius_IArtemius_I Member Posts: 1,853
    Zaghoul said:

    You think you'll ever try your hand at a mage NPC for BG?

    Mayyyyyybe. I wouldn't hold my breath on it though.
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    Zaghoul said:

    So I'm curious here, apart from stats, power, etc. who do people like as the best mage on a personality lvl?

    Xzar. I happen to quite like Montaron, too, so the pairing has never bothered me. There's some comic relief to him like with Edwin and Jan, but there's room for it to breathe a bit.
    Zaghoul
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761

    For good or neutral parties, I would say Dynaheir, for the aforementioned web spell. It's even better now that the specialist bonuses have been added.

    The only spell she is really missing from her repertoire is sleep - which you can obtain via a wand before you even get Dynaheir herself. The spell actually becomes useless the further you get into the game, so I've never seen it as an issue. Sell and re-buy to recharge as needed.

    The other good enchantment spells (like confusion) are not as good as web, and the saving throws are not high enough in BG1 to have such a huge concern over the lack of greater malison. (For BG2, my arguments would change.)

    Dynaheir can not only disable with web (with her added specialist bonus, to boot), she can launch fireballs at will as well, so she is also good for mass destruction. Her crowd control is thus well-rounded, unlike Xan who can only do the disable part (and less effectively, again, due to the power of web).

    That said, Xan is still viable because a wand of fire can replace his lack of destruction. Nothing at all can be done for his lack of magic missile (after all, this is a spell no one casts before level 3 at the earliest , and a wand only gives you a single, crappy missile). As a quick side note, Larloch's minor drain is better for the earlier levels, as it not only casts super fast (can disrupt enemy mage spells), it also gives the mage some nice extra hp at a time they need it most. Xan also can't cast web, and that spell can't be replaced by a wand, which is an issue.

    Stat wise, Dynaheir is better off than Xan, simply due to her high CON. Mages are very squishy in BG1, and there have been lots of times when even 2 or 3 points of hp have made the difference between life and death. Dynaheir's "flaw" (if you can consider it that) is the fact she is saddled with Minsc, so if you do not want him, then you have to kill him off or leave him in some building somewhere.

    Confusion is decent, but the three best enchantment spells are Emotion, Chaos, and Feeblemind. Emotion because it's a total shutdown like Web, Chaos because it has a ridiculous -6 save penalty when cast by an Enchanter (highest in BG, though a Spook-casting Illusionist can match it), and Feeblemind because it's an instant death spell with a -4 save penalty (when cast by an enchanter) which works on pretty much everything.

    (Plus sleep, but like you say, there's a wand for that. A wand that's usable by non-mages, to boot!)

    Losing Web sucks for Xan. To a much, much lesser extent, so does losing Melf's Minute Meteors, Magic Missile, and Cloudkill. Losing the rest of the Invocation spells is fine, though. Necklace of Missiles, Wand of Fire, Wand of Frost, Skull Trap, Melf's Acid Arrow, etc.

    At level 1, Blindness is hella underrated and a better cast than Magic Missile a lot of the time, especially now that enemies no longer wander. Or Spook if you want a higher save penalty. Xan's also free to devote level 1 slots to Identify, especially if you have another party mage with Magic Missiles available.

    Level 5 Cloudkill Cheese has been a staple of BG games since they were first released, but souped-up Chaos and Feeblemind means Xan is never hurting for level 5 spells to cast.

    Dynahier has better Con than Xan, which results in 50% more HP (nearly double HP if you aren't maxing your rolls). But Xan's AC will be three points better thanks to his Dex and his sword, which not only helps protect his fragile HP pool, it also makes him harder to interrupt. I only wish his feeble Con had been a 9 instead of a 7 because that missile AC bonus from the Claw of Kazgaroth would look really fantastic on him.

    I like both Invokers and Enchanters; they're probably my two favorite specialists in BG1. If Edwin didn't have his Cheaty McCheaterton amulet, I'd say Xan and Dynahier were duking it out for top mage in the game. (Wild mages are amazing at higher levels, but in a low-level campaign give me a reliable specialist instead.)

    Honestly, if you're going to bring two full mages, I'd proabably rather have Xan + ______ or Dynahier + ______ than Edwin + _______, just because I'm going to have plenty of spell slots even without Edwin's bonus, so I'd rather have some worthwhile save penalties.
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 1,242
    @somesort I found Xzar even BETTER with NPC project installed :)

    On another note:
    Since the main of 'better' usually seems to go into the power department, I AM curious about one thing in that regard, wand use by specialists. I am THINKING that the spells that wands cast are from the wands point of view only, saving throw wise, and a specialist is not better with them if they are in his special field. I have wondered though. Anyone know for sure?

    I could reason it either way, a wand is an item created by a specific lvl mage, and not necessarily a specialist. For example, a can opener is basically a can opener in the hands of a trained chef or a priest.

    I could also reason that a specialist could 'potentially' get more out of one from his chosen sphere of magic.
    The example here being a trained sniper will get more out of his rifle than someone finding it on the street never having used a rifle before.

    Anyway, ya get my drift.
  • Wandering_RangerWandering_Ranger Member Posts: 115
    edited June 17
    Zaghoul said:

    So I'm curious here, apart from stats, power, etc. who do people like as the best mage on a personality lvl?

    1. Nalia - A deep, multilayered, very independent-minded, psychologically interesting character with a good heart and fascinating progression throughout the game. She goes from a naive idealist to a determined realist. You watch her mature, and that is simply awesome. One of my favourite characters ever, period. Also does not let her friendship with you cloud her judgement on the dangers of you being a potential menace as a Bhaalspawn (unlike Imoen). This is the responsible approach to have.

    2. Dynaheir - A mature, determined, honest, resolute woman who comes across as very honorable and noble in her dealings. Has a sense of duty and respect around her, with an aura of command. Her off-screen death is something that has always bothered me. Khalid at least got a proper send-off, through actually finding his body and then the interactions with Jaheira afterwards. Dynaheir gets very occasionally mentioned by Minsc, and her body is never found. They sort of just "dumped" her unceremoniously, and I've always found that in poor taste considering the great character she is.

    3. Edwin - The antithesis to Dynaheir. Is extremely rude and condescending, but has some of the best put-downs you will see in the game. His questlines are very entertaining, too. Always viewed him as the typical evil wizard, something that BG does not have a female equivalent of (unless of course, you count Edwin himself for a brief time).

    4. Xzar - An insane Necromancer who you can recruit immediately. I like this guy a lot because he is so outrageous, and Montaron is cool as well. Honestly, if Xzar's alignment was hidden, I would suspect him to be CN. He's never really OBVIOUSLY evil (except maybe the line about taking Elves' eyes), he's just unhinged.

    5. Jan Jansen - A very funny gnome who has some of the greatest interactions across the board with absolutely anyone. His fanciful tales are just so ridiculous that you can't help but laugh at his annoying nature.

    6. Xan - A melancholy, depressed Elf who is nevertheless endearing. His moonblade looks awesome, too. Comes across as actually quite a caring individual who values his friends, despite his pessimistic outlooks on life.

    7. Aerie - Good hearted, if a little fragile and shy in her interactions. But you can't hate someone who is always trying to genuinely do the right thing and help people. Her heart is in the right place, and it shows throughout the series.

    8. Safana (can become a mage, so I included her) - A sultry character who is extremely competent at her role as a thief, and doesn't do badly as a mage, either. She will usually be a backup caster if you go down that route, but I would certainly argue that dualled Safana is better as a backup caster than the likes of Garrick and Eldoth. Anything they can do, she can do better (except play music!).

    I like all of the above. As for these three....

    9. Quayle - A highly annoying character who I do not enjoy the presence of. Loud, obnoxious, and has so little personality (unlike the other loud, obnoxious characters such as Edwin), that it is impossible to have him in a party. Jan's annoyingness at least comes with an entertaining side, whereas Quayle has no such aspect.

    10. Imoen - A weak moral character, because she will stick with you no matter what you do. Other NPC's in the series (like Valygar, Nalia, Aerie, Jaheira, Keldorn, etc) will "rebel" against you if you do something obviously evil (like attack Drizzt), but Imoen won't. People view this as loyalty, but loyalty to a monster is deplorable. If I was acting evilly, I would want my friend to tell me, not to stick by me while I performed atrocities. She's the typical "stand by and watch evil being done and do nothing about it" (and actually even participates). Utterly disgusting character with no moral principles who I could not hate more if I tried. As an aside, I have always found it stupid that she could simply freely give up her essence at the end. What a cop out. I'm sure every Bhaalspawn would have liked to do it that way, too but they didn't get to. It would be a far more interesting scenario if she was summoned and you had to kill her in order to gain Godhood. You might actually be presented with a REAL moral option then, rather than the quasi-moral one they present you with.

    11. Neera - Never liked wild mages, and especially not this loud, obnoxious, abrasive individual who speaks like a valley girl in a high fantasy setting, ruining immersion totally. She is a walking fire alarm - loud and extremely annoying. In BG2, even if you tell her you have no idea who she is, she nevertheless tells you her SECRET HIDEOUT'S LOCATION. If you are playing evil, at this point, you should storm its walls and kill everyone there. Her stupidity has cost lives. Neera's chaotic, unpredictable nature is something I do not enjoy in people, and I do not want to put up with it in a video game. Ranked her even lower than the morally bankrupt Imoen because at least Imoen has a part to play in saga, whereas Neera is a parasitic leech on the storyline who outtalks even Quayle and takes the spotlight as a result (a complaint I have with all the EE NPC'S, actually - they hijack a lot of the spotlight of other NPC's).

    Now, when a character is obviously evil, that is one thing. Games need evil characters and I like some of the evil ones because they are well-written and fit their roles. However, when they are not evil (like Imoen and Neera), but exhibit really stupid or evil traits nevertheless, I must draw the line.
    Post edited by Wandering_Ranger on
    ZaghoulQuartz
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 1,242
    @Wandering_Ranger I think that really helps address the 2nd point in the OP's list quite well. Given we all have our own personalities that attract us to the NPC's personalities and this list will vary with us, but it most definitely plays into who I and many other's choices are as well.
    Although depending on what CHARNAME I am into this can change as well.

    On Neera, yeah, she is a bit trusting and not the wisest potato chip in the bag when it comes to revealing hideouts. I played a NE WSlayer once that bout wet his pants when she told him bout the 'hidden' hideout. >:)

    His was bout like this reaction by Mr. Mask here, his face at the end says it all, hehheh. The kids, a bunch of Neera's, hehheh.


    I think it would be great if NPC's could really react to a character's class, alignment, and characteristics more (like Neera and the above WSlayer, for example. That would REALLY add to our choices on not only 'good' mages but about anyone.
    Wandering_Ranger
  • fatelessfateless Member Posts: 303
    Depending on what I'm doing. I tend to cycle between Edwin and Dynaheir and now Neera as well. Xan is always a secondary mage for me if I'm going to take him because he's good at backing things up and supplying that redundancy in enough respects should saving throws be made. I don't bother with the others much in BG1 because I either don't entirely care for their personalities because I don't find them amusing like others do. Or I don't entirely care for/need their partnered characters. With one or two just plain not being as good to round them out.

    Same with BG2. Jan is just annoying for me. I don't find him entertaining like others do. Nalia and Imoen are interchangeable and I only take them when I specifically want them. (Nalia's not my preferred romance). Neera is still a bit of a mouth and a bit unpredictable in ability. but at least that starts working somewhat in my favour once she gets some real levels under her belt. Aerie is an excellent backup character but she is never my main mage.
  • Wandering_RangerWandering_Ranger Member Posts: 115
    fateless, Nalia's not romanceable, except with a mod, so I assume you must be referring to the mod you installed specifically for that purpose.
    Zaghoul said:


    I think it would be great if NPC's could really react to a character's class, alignment, and characteristics more (like Neera and the above WSlayer, for example. That would REALLY add to our choices on not only 'good' mages but about anyone.

    Yes, this would be ideal, but probably really hard to implement. I would also like to see certain NPC's react to certain things more, based on their SPECIFIC alignment (instead of an across the board good/neutral/evil reaction). For instance, let's say you kill an innocent person on the street. A character like Edwin would object (LE does not want to step outside he law and be branded a criminal), while Korgan (CE) wouldn't give a damn at all about it. This too would be very hard to implement because so many variables can be taken into account, but it would be interesting nonetheless.
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