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Baldur's Gate Logic

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  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    Also Sarevok immediatly starts sending MUCH more competent assassins after the party while he is too busy plotting his world takeover to care about dealing with charname himself. By the time Sarevok realizes he's made a mistake, he's also gotten a lot more powerful and he's more than ready to face charname in their "final" confrontation.

    The difference between Shank/Carbos and Tarnesh is really night and day when you stop and think about it.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @ZaramMaldovar , I agree with you totally on your main point, there, but I actually find Neira's multiple Hold Person spells even scarier than Tarnesh's Horror. And it's another moment of "Ah, safety at last...what? Nooo!"

    The first time I played BG in 1999, I almost rage quit at Tarnesh. I had not accepted Montaron and Xzar, the guards weren't helping, and his Mirror Images were not nerfed in that original version of the game. (He could not be hit or interrupted until all the images were down.)

    I got destroyed by Karlat, and held over and over by Neira. Noob me didn't know how to use Magic Missiles to interrupt deadly spells, or about the Remove Fear spell, or any of the ways to get past these sadistic encounters. I just had to keep reloading until I got lucky rolls. Good times?
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    I personally find SIlke to be the most difficult fight, realtive to how early you can fight here. For some reason, I can NEVER interrupt her lightning bolt. It ALWAYS goes off I can't kill her before it finishes casting.
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,422
    But at least Silke is an enemy that you actively choose to activate. So if she's too tricky, you can choose not to talk to her for a while, unless you desperately want Garrick in your party.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    @ThacoBell @Thels
    I agree, as far as early enemies go, Silke is the worst but Tarnesh is pound for pound the most dangerous BOUNTY HUNTER.

    Obviously Neira, Nimbul and the others are more dangerous, but Tarnesh is either get a lucky hit in within the first round, level grind before you get to the Inn, or you're screwed.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Thels wrote: »
    But at least Silke is an enemy that you actively choose to activate. So if she's too tricky, you can choose not to talk to her for a while, unless you desperately want Garrick in your party.

    Good luck knowing that on a first playthrough. "Oh, wow, 400 gold pieces!? I'm in." *ded*
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    @ThacoBell @Thels
    I agree, as far as early enemies go, Silke is the worst but Tarnesh is pound for pound the most dangerous BOUNTY HUNTER.

    Obviously Neira, Nimbul and the others are more dangerous, but Tarnesh is either get a lucky hit in within the first round, level grind before you get to the Inn, or you're screwed.

    The level 1 arcane spell Shield also makes you immune to magic missile, his only offensive spell.

    The level 1 Cleric Spell Remove Fear makes you immune to his horror, which gives you a bit more time to attack him before he gets you.

    Thieves could steal a Potion of Clarity from Winthrop's inn, which accomplishes the same thing as Remove Fear here, but only effects one of your party members.

    So there are methods of dealing with him even at level 1, depending on party composition and such.
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 1,093
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    I personally find SIlke to be the most difficult fight, realtive to how early you can fight here. For some reason, I can NEVER interrupt her lightning bolt. It ALWAYS goes off I can't kill her before it finishes casting.

    I don't think I've ever failed to stop her first cast? It's why I normally keep maybe one shield and otherwise fill up the level 1 slots with magic missile.
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938
    Tarnesh is quite a bit more difficult in SCS. He's cast mirror image, horror, sleep, MM, and M acid arrow at me. Ya definitely half to take em down quick. I usually pass along the wand of MM to characters to keep them pounding away and interrupting his casting.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    @Chronicler
    Oh I agree, in fact I nearly did a dance of euphoria when I discovered that I could use the Potion of Clarity to beat Tarnesh. But these are things that an inexperienced player doesn't know and a casual player like me doesn't normally think about.
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    Maurvir wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    I personally find SIlke to be the most difficult fight, realtive to how early you can fight here. For some reason, I can NEVER interrupt her lightning bolt. It ALWAYS goes off I can't kill her before it finishes casting.

    I don't think I've ever failed to stop her first cast? It's why I normally keep maybe one shield and otherwise fill up the level 1 slots with magic missile.

    She wears no armor and has a pretty modest Dex score. It's not much harder to hit her than any mage.

    The nature of a dice based system means we all have our unlucky streaks though.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    I've occasionally killed Tarnesh on my 1st try before but never in any of my playthroughs have I managed to defeat Silke without having to reload at least once.
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    I've occasionally killed Tarnesh on my 1st try before but never in any of my playthroughs have I managed to defeat Silke without having to reload at least once.

    Usually when I fight her I have my player character, Imoen, Jaheira, and Khalid in the group.

    I find putting a bow in Khalid's hand makes a big difference for that fight. With the dex modifier and the extra attack per round he has a much better shot at hitting her even with only one pip.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    Chronicler wrote: »
    @ThacoBell @Thels
    I agree, as far as early enemies go, Silke is the worst but Tarnesh is pound for pound the most dangerous BOUNTY HUNTER.

    Obviously Neira, Nimbul and the others are more dangerous, but Tarnesh is either get a lucky hit in within the first round, level grind before you get to the Inn, or you're screwed.

    The level 1 arcane spell Shield also makes you immune to magic missile, his only offensive spell.

    The level 1 Cleric Spell Remove Fear makes you immune to his horror, which gives you a bit more time to attack him before he gets you.

    Thieves could steal a Potion of Clarity from Winthrop's inn, which accomplishes the same thing as Remove Fear here, but only effects one of your party members.

    So there are methods of dealing with him even at level 1, depending on party composition and such.

    I think @ZaramMaldovar 's point isn't that Tarnesh can't be beaten (he's actually pretty easy to beat for an experienced player), it's that he is a very harsh introduction to the dangers of the game for a *new*, *first-time* player.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Maurvir wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    I personally find SIlke to be the most difficult fight, realtive to how early you can fight here. For some reason, I can NEVER interrupt her lightning bolt. It ALWAYS goes off I can't kill her before it finishes casting.

    I don't think I've ever failed to stop her first cast? It's why I normally keep maybe one shield and otherwise fill up the level 1 slots with magic missile.

    I should clarify. Her first cast is always mirror image. I always interrupt it, but her thunderbolt spell will never be interrupted. Its not because I'm not hitting her, I am. But her script seems to force the spell through damage. So I can only stop the TPK by killing her before she finishes casting her second spell.
  • AasimAasim Member Posts: 591
    When I first played BG1, I used to drop my DEX so I could get high AC....I tought higher = better. I always played paladin, I always gave him a crossbow and never switched to melee weapons.
    My favourite character was Kivan due to his voice and "my soul aches..." line. My favourite item was Claw of Kazgaroth since it made my PC look all blurry and cool.
    I never killed Drizzt, until I got Internet several years later and read about the tactics to kill him.
    I didn't know where Dynaheir was to be found, so I could never play with Minsc or Edwin since they would leave. For a long time, the only viable mage for me was Xan; who I hated since he had the coolest sword ever which only he could use and he couldn't cast Fireball, which I tought was the best spell in the game.
    Good times. It's been 20 years now.
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Maurvir wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    I personally find SIlke to be the most difficult fight, realtive to how early you can fight here. For some reason, I can NEVER interrupt her lightning bolt. It ALWAYS goes off I can't kill her before it finishes casting.

    I don't think I've ever failed to stop her first cast? It's why I normally keep maybe one shield and otherwise fill up the level 1 slots with magic missile.

    I should clarify. Her first cast is always mirror image. I always interrupt it, but her thunderbolt spell will never be interrupted. Its not because I'm not hitting her, I am. But her script seems to force the spell through damage. So I can only stop the TPK by killing her before she finishes casting her second spell.

    That sounds like a mod issue. She doesn't cast mirror image in the base game, and her lighting bolts have always interrupted just fine for me.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    @Chronicler
    I agree, in Vanilla she always first casts Invisibility and then immediatly spam casts lightning bolt after that. This occasional kills her but almost always kills at least one party member and maybe even some NPCs.

    I actually fought her once and she killed Imoen, Jaheria, Khalid, Garrick, Herself and One of the "Assassins" she asked me to kill with two lightning bolts.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Chronicler wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Maurvir wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    I personally find SIlke to be the most difficult fight, realtive to how early you can fight here. For some reason, I can NEVER interrupt her lightning bolt. It ALWAYS goes off I can't kill her before it finishes casting.

    I don't think I've ever failed to stop her first cast? It's why I normally keep maybe one shield and otherwise fill up the level 1 slots with magic missile.

    I should clarify. Her first cast is always mirror image. I always interrupt it, but her thunderbolt spell will never be interrupted. Its not because I'm not hitting her, I am. But her script seems to force the spell through damage. So I can only stop the TPK by killing her before she finishes casting her second spell.

    That sounds like a mod issue. She doesn't cast mirror image in the base game, and her lighting bolts have always interrupted just fine for me.

    It might be invisibility then. This has always been the case for me since vanilla. I didn't start using mods until a year before the EE came out.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Maybe Minsc has already tried and failed to rescue ol Dyna.
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    Edwin at least is pretty open about the fact that he can't handle all the gnolls on his own if I recall.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    @ThacoBell
    Minsc is not a man of half measures. Without a companion or two to reign him in, Minsc would absolutely storm that fortress by himself and go down in a blaze of glory. There would be no give up, turn around and try again, Minsc is too proud and stubborn for that. He'd be certain to leave a pile of Gnoll corpses behind though.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @ThacoBell
    Minsc is not a man of half measures. Without a companion or two to reign him in, Minsc would absolutely storm that fortress by himself and go down in a blaze of glory. There would be no give up, turn around and try again, Minsc is too proud and stubborn for that. He'd be certain to leave a pile of Gnoll corpses behind though.

    That's why he has Boo!
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    @ThacoBell
    Minsc is not a man of half measures. Without a companion or two to reign him in, Minsc would absolutely storm that fortress by himself and go down in a blaze of glory. There would be no give up, turn around and try again, Minsc is too proud and stubborn for that. He'd be certain to leave a pile of Gnoll corpses behind though.

    He's not the brightest ranger though. He probably gave up trying to FIND the gnoll fortress...
  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 324
    Yes, because tracking a band of gnolls is s-o-o-o hard for a ranger.
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    shabadoo wrote: »
    Yes, because tracking a band of gnolls is s-o-o-o hard for a ranger.

    Tracking is a High Level ability, remember?
  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 324
    Shouldn't be, how can a ranger not follow tracks? Yet another reason 2e was bad. Yes, I said it. 2e was terrible. I know it was popular, i know a lot of people liked it, they are wrong.lol
    It's only my opinion, i know.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    shabadoo wrote: »
    Shouldn't be, how can a ranger not follow tracks? Yet another reason 2e was bad. Yes, I said it. 2e was terrible. I know it was popular, i know a lot of people liked it, they are wrong.lol
    It's only my opinion, i know.

    Minsc received a head-wound that reduced his wisdom below the minimum for a ranger. Mayhaps some level of wisdom is required for tracking.
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