Also Sarevok immediatly starts sending MUCH more competent assassins after the party while he is too busy plotting his world takeover to care about dealing with charname himself. By the time Sarevok realizes he's made a mistake, he's also gotten a lot more powerful and he's more than ready to face charname in their "final" confrontation.
The difference between Shank/Carbos and Tarnesh is really night and day when you stop and think about it.
@Chronicler
Honestly pound for pound I think the most competent assassin in the entire series is probably Tarnesh. He may not be the most powerful, but he absolutely sets the one for encounters.
Imagine you're playing Baldur's Gate for the 1st time, now you've had a pretty smooth game so far. You've done a few fetch quests, you killed some rats, if you were unlikely Shank and Carbos might have gotten in a stab or two but you never felt like you were in any real danger. You collect the loot from Sarevok's ambush and head straight north to the Friendly Arm Inn.
Now you might have burned through a gibberling or two or if you strayed a little bit off the beaten path you might have learned the hard way that Wolves are deadly, but chances are you've handled yourself well so far.
Then along comes Tarnesh and just throws all your expectations out the window. You've made it to the Friendly Arm, you're clearly safe here at least, right? Wrong. Tarnesh shows up before he can go inside and immediatly casts Horror. Charname and Imoen are running for their lives, the guards try to dispatch Tarnesh but before they can do so, a magic missile flies through the air and instantly kills you.
Game Over in brutal fashion less than half an hour into your run. Thank the Gods for Auto Save and try again.
Karlat also has the element of suprise as well as the tight corridors of the Red Sheaf on his side but by this point you have gathered some better equipment, at least two more party members and maybe even made it to Level 2 depending on your class so you probably won't have to reload quite as many times.
@ZaramMaldovar , I agree with you totally on your main point, there, but I actually find Neira's multiple Hold Person spells even scarier than Tarnesh's Horror. And it's another moment of "Ah, safety at last...what? Nooo!"
The first time I played BG in 1999, I almost rage quit at Tarnesh. I had not accepted Montaron and Xzar, the guards weren't helping, and his Mirror Images were not nerfed in that original version of the game. (He could not be hit or interrupted until all the images were down.)
I got destroyed by Karlat, and held over and over by Neira. Noob me didn't know how to use Magic Missiles to interrupt deadly spells, or about the Remove Fear spell, or any of the ways to get past these sadistic encounters. I just had to keep reloading until I got lucky rolls. Good times?
I personally find SIlke to be the most difficult fight, realtive to how early you can fight here. For some reason, I can NEVER interrupt her lightning bolt. It ALWAYS goes off I can't kill her before it finishes casting.
But at least Silke is an enemy that you actively choose to activate. So if she's too tricky, you can choose not to talk to her for a while, unless you desperately want Garrick in your party.
@ThacoBell@Thels
I agree, as far as early enemies go, Silke is the worst but Tarnesh is pound for pound the most dangerous BOUNTY HUNTER.
Obviously Neira, Nimbul and the others are more dangerous, but Tarnesh is either get a lucky hit in within the first round, level grind before you get to the Inn, or you're screwed.
But at least Silke is an enemy that you actively choose to activate. So if she's too tricky, you can choose not to talk to her for a while, unless you desperately want Garrick in your party.
Good luck knowing that on a first playthrough. "Oh, wow, 400 gold pieces!? I'm in." *ded*
@ThacoBell@Thels
I agree, as far as early enemies go, Silke is the worst but Tarnesh is pound for pound the most dangerous BOUNTY HUNTER.
Obviously Neira, Nimbul and the others are more dangerous, but Tarnesh is either get a lucky hit in within the first round, level grind before you get to the Inn, or you're screwed.
The level 1 arcane spell Shield also makes you immune to magic missile, his only offensive spell.
The level 1 Cleric Spell Remove Fear makes you immune to his horror, which gives you a bit more time to attack him before he gets you.
Thieves could steal a Potion of Clarity from Winthrop's inn, which accomplishes the same thing as Remove Fear here, but only effects one of your party members.
So there are methods of dealing with him even at level 1, depending on party composition and such.
I personally find SIlke to be the most difficult fight, realtive to how early you can fight here. For some reason, I can NEVER interrupt her lightning bolt. It ALWAYS goes off I can't kill her before it finishes casting.
I don't think I've ever failed to stop her first cast? It's why I normally keep maybe one shield and otherwise fill up the level 1 slots with magic missile.
Tarnesh is quite a bit more difficult in SCS. He's cast mirror image, horror, sleep, MM, and M acid arrow at me. Ya definitely half to take em down quick. I usually pass along the wand of MM to characters to keep them pounding away and interrupting his casting.
@Chronicler
Oh I agree, in fact I nearly did a dance of euphoria when I discovered that I could use the Potion of Clarity to beat Tarnesh. But these are things that an inexperienced player doesn't know and a casual player like me doesn't normally think about.
I personally find SIlke to be the most difficult fight, realtive to how early you can fight here. For some reason, I can NEVER interrupt her lightning bolt. It ALWAYS goes off I can't kill her before it finishes casting.
I don't think I've ever failed to stop her first cast? It's why I normally keep maybe one shield and otherwise fill up the level 1 slots with magic missile.
She wears no armor and has a pretty modest Dex score. It's not much harder to hit her than any mage.
The nature of a dice based system means we all have our unlucky streaks though.
I've occasionally killed Tarnesh on my 1st try before but never in any of my playthroughs have I managed to defeat Silke without having to reload at least once.
I've occasionally killed Tarnesh on my 1st try before but never in any of my playthroughs have I managed to defeat Silke without having to reload at least once.
Usually when I fight her I have my player character, Imoen, Jaheira, and Khalid in the group.
I find putting a bow in Khalid's hand makes a big difference for that fight. With the dex modifier and the extra attack per round he has a much better shot at hitting her even with only one pip.
@ThacoBell@Thels
I agree, as far as early enemies go, Silke is the worst but Tarnesh is pound for pound the most dangerous BOUNTY HUNTER.
Obviously Neira, Nimbul and the others are more dangerous, but Tarnesh is either get a lucky hit in within the first round, level grind before you get to the Inn, or you're screwed.
The level 1 arcane spell Shield also makes you immune to magic missile, his only offensive spell.
The level 1 Cleric Spell Remove Fear makes you immune to his horror, which gives you a bit more time to attack him before he gets you.
Thieves could steal a Potion of Clarity from Winthrop's inn, which accomplishes the same thing as Remove Fear here, but only effects one of your party members.
So there are methods of dealing with him even at level 1, depending on party composition and such.
I think @ZaramMaldovar 's point isn't that Tarnesh can't be beaten (he's actually pretty easy to beat for an experienced player), it's that he is a very harsh introduction to the dangers of the game for a *new*, *first-time* player.
I personally find SIlke to be the most difficult fight, realtive to how early you can fight here. For some reason, I can NEVER interrupt her lightning bolt. It ALWAYS goes off I can't kill her before it finishes casting.
I don't think I've ever failed to stop her first cast? It's why I normally keep maybe one shield and otherwise fill up the level 1 slots with magic missile.
I should clarify. Her first cast is always mirror image. I always interrupt it, but her thunderbolt spell will never be interrupted. Its not because I'm not hitting her, I am. But her script seems to force the spell through damage. So I can only stop the TPK by killing her before she finishes casting her second spell.
When I first played BG1, I used to drop my DEX so I could get high AC....I tought higher = better. I always played paladin, I always gave him a crossbow and never switched to melee weapons.
My favourite character was Kivan due to his voice and "my soul aches..." line. My favourite item was Claw of Kazgaroth since it made my PC look all blurry and cool.
I never killed Drizzt, until I got Internet several years later and read about the tactics to kill him.
I didn't know where Dynaheir was to be found, so I could never play with Minsc or Edwin since they would leave. For a long time, the only viable mage for me was Xan; who I hated since he had the coolest sword ever which only he could use and he couldn't cast Fireball, which I tought was the best spell in the game.
Good times. It's been 20 years now.
I personally find SIlke to be the most difficult fight, realtive to how early you can fight here. For some reason, I can NEVER interrupt her lightning bolt. It ALWAYS goes off I can't kill her before it finishes casting.
I don't think I've ever failed to stop her first cast? It's why I normally keep maybe one shield and otherwise fill up the level 1 slots with magic missile.
I should clarify. Her first cast is always mirror image. I always interrupt it, but her thunderbolt spell will never be interrupted. Its not because I'm not hitting her, I am. But her script seems to force the spell through damage. So I can only stop the TPK by killing her before she finishes casting her second spell.
That sounds like a mod issue. She doesn't cast mirror image in the base game, and her lighting bolts have always interrupted just fine for me.
@Chronicler
I agree, in Vanilla she always first casts Invisibility and then immediatly spam casts lightning bolt after that. This occasional kills her but almost always kills at least one party member and maybe even some NPCs.
I actually fought her once and she killed Imoen, Jaheria, Khalid, Garrick, Herself and One of the "Assassins" she asked me to kill with two lightning bolts.
I personally find SIlke to be the most difficult fight, realtive to how early you can fight here. For some reason, I can NEVER interrupt her lightning bolt. It ALWAYS goes off I can't kill her before it finishes casting.
I don't think I've ever failed to stop her first cast? It's why I normally keep maybe one shield and otherwise fill up the level 1 slots with magic missile.
I should clarify. Her first cast is always mirror image. I always interrupt it, but her thunderbolt spell will never be interrupted. Its not because I'm not hitting her, I am. But her script seems to force the spell through damage. So I can only stop the TPK by killing her before she finishes casting her second spell.
That sounds like a mod issue. She doesn't cast mirror image in the base game, and her lighting bolts have always interrupted just fine for me.
It might be invisibility then. This has always been the case for me since vanilla. I didn't start using mods until a year before the EE came out.
Interesting that Minsc will stand on the street until the end of time, doing nothing to rescue Dynaheir. But once he joins the party he's in a big hurry to rescue her. All the quest npc's seem to be in no hurry at all until the players show up. Something about MC infuses them with a sudden sense of urgency. Another hidden power, I can only assume.
@ThacoBell
Minsc is not a man of half measures. Without a companion or two to reign him in, Minsc would absolutely storm that fortress by himself and go down in a blaze of glory. There would be no give up, turn around and try again, Minsc is too proud and stubborn for that. He'd be certain to leave a pile of Gnoll corpses behind though.
@ThacoBell
Minsc is not a man of half measures. Without a companion or two to reign him in, Minsc would absolutely storm that fortress by himself and go down in a blaze of glory. There would be no give up, turn around and try again, Minsc is too proud and stubborn for that. He'd be certain to leave a pile of Gnoll corpses behind though.
@ThacoBell
Minsc is not a man of half measures. Without a companion or two to reign him in, Minsc would absolutely storm that fortress by himself and go down in a blaze of glory. There would be no give up, turn around and try again, Minsc is too proud and stubborn for that. He'd be certain to leave a pile of Gnoll corpses behind though.
He's not the brightest ranger though. He probably gave up trying to FIND the gnoll fortress...
Shouldn't be, how can a ranger not follow tracks? Yet another reason 2e was bad. Yes, I said it. 2e was terrible. I know it was popular, i know a lot of people liked it, they are wrong.lol
It's only my opinion, i know.
Shouldn't be, how can a ranger not follow tracks? Yet another reason 2e was bad. Yes, I said it. 2e was terrible. I know it was popular, i know a lot of people liked it, they are wrong.lol
It's only my opinion, i know.
Minsc received a head-wound that reduced his wisdom below the minimum for a ranger. Mayhaps some level of wisdom is required for tracking.
Comments
The difference between Shank/Carbos and Tarnesh is really night and day when you stop and think about it.
Honestly pound for pound I think the most competent assassin in the entire series is probably Tarnesh. He may not be the most powerful, but he absolutely sets the one for encounters.
Imagine you're playing Baldur's Gate for the 1st time, now you've had a pretty smooth game so far. You've done a few fetch quests, you killed some rats, if you were unlikely Shank and Carbos might have gotten in a stab or two but you never felt like you were in any real danger. You collect the loot from Sarevok's ambush and head straight north to the Friendly Arm Inn.
Now you might have burned through a gibberling or two or if you strayed a little bit off the beaten path you might have learned the hard way that Wolves are deadly, but chances are you've handled yourself well so far.
Then along comes Tarnesh and just throws all your expectations out the window. You've made it to the Friendly Arm, you're clearly safe here at least, right? Wrong. Tarnesh shows up before he can go inside and immediatly casts Horror. Charname and Imoen are running for their lives, the guards try to dispatch Tarnesh but before they can do so, a magic missile flies through the air and instantly kills you.
Game Over in brutal fashion less than half an hour into your run. Thank the Gods for Auto Save and try again.
Karlat also has the element of suprise as well as the tight corridors of the Red Sheaf on his side but by this point you have gathered some better equipment, at least two more party members and maybe even made it to Level 2 depending on your class so you probably won't have to reload quite as many times.
The first time I played BG in 1999, I almost rage quit at Tarnesh. I had not accepted Montaron and Xzar, the guards weren't helping, and his Mirror Images were not nerfed in that original version of the game. (He could not be hit or interrupted until all the images were down.)
I got destroyed by Karlat, and held over and over by Neira. Noob me didn't know how to use Magic Missiles to interrupt deadly spells, or about the Remove Fear spell, or any of the ways to get past these sadistic encounters. I just had to keep reloading until I got lucky rolls. Good times?
I agree, as far as early enemies go, Silke is the worst but Tarnesh is pound for pound the most dangerous BOUNTY HUNTER.
Obviously Neira, Nimbul and the others are more dangerous, but Tarnesh is either get a lucky hit in within the first round, level grind before you get to the Inn, or you're screwed.
Good luck knowing that on a first playthrough. "Oh, wow, 400 gold pieces!? I'm in." *ded*
The level 1 arcane spell Shield also makes you immune to magic missile, his only offensive spell.
The level 1 Cleric Spell Remove Fear makes you immune to his horror, which gives you a bit more time to attack him before he gets you.
Thieves could steal a Potion of Clarity from Winthrop's inn, which accomplishes the same thing as Remove Fear here, but only effects one of your party members.
So there are methods of dealing with him even at level 1, depending on party composition and such.
I don't think I've ever failed to stop her first cast? It's why I normally keep maybe one shield and otherwise fill up the level 1 slots with magic missile.
Oh I agree, in fact I nearly did a dance of euphoria when I discovered that I could use the Potion of Clarity to beat Tarnesh. But these are things that an inexperienced player doesn't know and a casual player like me doesn't normally think about.
She wears no armor and has a pretty modest Dex score. It's not much harder to hit her than any mage.
The nature of a dice based system means we all have our unlucky streaks though.
Usually when I fight her I have my player character, Imoen, Jaheira, and Khalid in the group.
I find putting a bow in Khalid's hand makes a big difference for that fight. With the dex modifier and the extra attack per round he has a much better shot at hitting her even with only one pip.
I think @ZaramMaldovar 's point isn't that Tarnesh can't be beaten (he's actually pretty easy to beat for an experienced player), it's that he is a very harsh introduction to the dangers of the game for a *new*, *first-time* player.
I should clarify. Her first cast is always mirror image. I always interrupt it, but her thunderbolt spell will never be interrupted. Its not because I'm not hitting her, I am. But her script seems to force the spell through damage. So I can only stop the TPK by killing her before she finishes casting her second spell.
My favourite character was Kivan due to his voice and "my soul aches..." line. My favourite item was Claw of Kazgaroth since it made my PC look all blurry and cool.
I never killed Drizzt, until I got Internet several years later and read about the tactics to kill him.
I didn't know where Dynaheir was to be found, so I could never play with Minsc or Edwin since they would leave. For a long time, the only viable mage for me was Xan; who I hated since he had the coolest sword ever which only he could use and he couldn't cast Fireball, which I tought was the best spell in the game.
Good times. It's been 20 years now.
That sounds like a mod issue. She doesn't cast mirror image in the base game, and her lighting bolts have always interrupted just fine for me.
I agree, in Vanilla she always first casts Invisibility and then immediatly spam casts lightning bolt after that. This occasional kills her but almost always kills at least one party member and maybe even some NPCs.
I actually fought her once and she killed Imoen, Jaheria, Khalid, Garrick, Herself and One of the "Assassins" she asked me to kill with two lightning bolts.
It might be invisibility then. This has always been the case for me since vanilla. I didn't start using mods until a year before the EE came out.
Minsc is not a man of half measures. Without a companion or two to reign him in, Minsc would absolutely storm that fortress by himself and go down in a blaze of glory. There would be no give up, turn around and try again, Minsc is too proud and stubborn for that. He'd be certain to leave a pile of Gnoll corpses behind though.
That's why he has Boo!
He's not the brightest ranger though. He probably gave up trying to FIND the gnoll fortress...
Tracking is a High Level ability, remember?
It's only my opinion, i know.
Minsc received a head-wound that reduced his wisdom below the minimum for a ranger. Mayhaps some level of wisdom is required for tracking.