Of hungry clocks and impatient adversaries
Mantis37
Member Posts: 1,177
Time is of little consequence in the Forgotten Realms. Sarevok's appointment as a duke is on an uncertain date. Irenicus waits patiently in Spellhold. Your soulless state is on the order of a minor headache. Mechanically you are free to stockpile healing potions, grind ankhegs to powder, and explore every last square.
In many games, by contrast, there are forms of time and resource pressure. Perhaps there is the hunger clock, as in many roguelikes, forcing you to eat limited resources. Perhaps you are being chased by an adversary which doesn't give any reward, like the rebel fleet in FTL. Perhaps you are penalised for not completing certain objectives in a limited timeframe. Quests may only be open for completion at certain stages of the game, forcing you to choose between alternatives.
The question is... do you feel like BG 1 & 2 (or even IWD) would be improved by this sort of mechanic, or is it just antithetical to the explore everything, collect everything, and kill everything habits of many players? Do you prefer to travel at your own pace, unhurried by the Iron Crisis and the imminent fall of Suldanessellar? Is there a happy middle ground for mods to explore? If time limits were imposed, at what stages should they be introduced and how should they be enforced? How long might it take before Sarevok hires Arkanis Gath to killsword you, or gathers the influence to have the Flaming Fist hunt you down? If having your soul taken away gives you Irenicus-like levels of empathy, how could this be expressed in an interesting way in-game? Perhaps your xp rewards are dramatically reduced for example, as you lose the capability to learn new things...
For me, the introduction of a mechanic which forced me to make progress before I was completely comfortable would add some narrative urgency to the game, and give more tactical and strategic challenge to my no-reloads. Any ideas or opinions?
In many games, by contrast, there are forms of time and resource pressure. Perhaps there is the hunger clock, as in many roguelikes, forcing you to eat limited resources. Perhaps you are being chased by an adversary which doesn't give any reward, like the rebel fleet in FTL. Perhaps you are penalised for not completing certain objectives in a limited timeframe. Quests may only be open for completion at certain stages of the game, forcing you to choose between alternatives.
The question is... do you feel like BG 1 & 2 (or even IWD) would be improved by this sort of mechanic, or is it just antithetical to the explore everything, collect everything, and kill everything habits of many players? Do you prefer to travel at your own pace, unhurried by the Iron Crisis and the imminent fall of Suldanessellar? Is there a happy middle ground for mods to explore? If time limits were imposed, at what stages should they be introduced and how should they be enforced? How long might it take before Sarevok hires Arkanis Gath to killsword you, or gathers the influence to have the Flaming Fist hunt you down? If having your soul taken away gives you Irenicus-like levels of empathy, how could this be expressed in an interesting way in-game? Perhaps your xp rewards are dramatically reduced for example, as you lose the capability to learn new things...
For me, the introduction of a mechanic which forced me to make progress before I was completely comfortable would add some narrative urgency to the game, and give more tactical and strategic challenge to my no-reloads. Any ideas or opinions?
3
Comments
However I'm also interested to look at the other end of the scale, at mechanics which support the urgency of the original narratives. Are there ways to do this which add rather than detract from the player experience?
In any case, yes, I do think some quests warrant the usage of timed resolution as long as for the greater narrative quests there is an alternate solution to the outcome. It would be very problematic if you fail to get to spellhold in time and the game just ends.
The events on werewolf island and the Marek quest for instance can be avoided by not going there and are not integral to the main storyline.
But too many timed quests makes a game boring. The balance is difficult to determine.
In PnP the party can travel at the speed of plot, and if they dawdle excessively the DM can throw an event at them to get them moving.
There should have been an option offered where if you don't get to Spellhold soon enough you find Imoen dead. Everything proceeds as normal, but you have to decide for yourself if you are going to make it in time.
That would emphasise RP aspects as well.
Do you ensure you are strong enough to face Irenicus?
Or do you possibly sacrifice your own success for altruistic reasons?
It becomes a real choice.
Some mods have introduced timed events, also some of the stronghold quests in BG2 have timers. Nothing of that was hailed as a big success.
Mechanically, timers are pretty easy to code into the game, so that is not the problem.
However, with all the mods available for all parts of the game and the many different ways you can make your journey through the BG world, timed events are somehow contradicting the overall game flow. In many discussions in various forums about the game, there is always a great resentment from players against anything that makes them feel that *now I have to do something*. Players like the freedom and hate it to be fenced in by the story making hard demands of what would need to be your next step.
However it feels like the mechanics of the BG series, where gamers can manipulate the power curve and indulge in the fantasy of freedom from time and obligations, kick against its story. For many players it's a fantasy space where we can save the girl and rescue the world at our own damn pace, without the pressures and dilemmas that attend our daily lives and force us into choices. Most players don't want the restrictions of being pursued by adversaries or being a slowly degrading soulless husk. (An interesting contrast is a roguelike called A Quest Too Far, where players begin as a powerful veteran adventurer with many decent items but their capabilities quickly degrade as their back gives out etc.)
In the future however I think that I may try doing a no-reload playthrough of the games where the character either follows a fairly straightforward path that prioritises immediate concerns, or even the CN inverse of randomised choice to see what sort of alternate paths pop up!
Hmm, I wonder what sort of story path a Paladin bot would be following anyway?
Of course this requires success / failure which are not necessarily components of designs, if you're playing a worldbuilding game then you can just appreciate your creations... Come to think of it I wonder if people who play Story Mode head for Imoen much sooner?- they are in much less need of the extra power...
A certain event happens leading the player to have a choice to continue on with the story or attempt to get stronger. Both ways have repercussions but only at its finale which promotes replayability in an attempt to get a better (or different) ending.
I want to say that Baldur's Gate did the right move, especially with so many stronghold quests happening away from the city. If all of Chapter 2 could have happened inside (or right near) the city, where travel time wouldn't hinder the clock, then I'd be for it. Attempt to level up and obtain gear as fast as possible before embarking on the voyage to save Imoen. Once Imoen had been saved or lost, one could return to the city to complete quests that were skipped allowing a completionist to have that satisfaction.
Her being dead works for me.
You could have a scene like in Irenicus dungeon when you find the body.
"Nooooooooooooooo........."
And then have the dream/vision with Bhaal, where she helps, to really rack up the guilt.