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What version of BG2: EE I need to avoid Posion Weapon nerf?

Hi,

I am old-school player that is against nerfing anything in Single Player games and I am to jump again after 8 years to BG again. EE of course. I wanted to play Blackguard or Assassin but friend warned me that poision weapon was nerfed at some point.

So which version of BG2:EE I need to avoid this nerf and play with original Poison Weapon?

Thanks for help for old grumpy man :)

Comments

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 12,699
    Welcome to the forum and don't be afraid!

    Use the latest version of the game (as there're a lot of bugs fixed in it, if compared to 1.3) and just try this mod by @Tresset - https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/48441/original-poison-weapon-ability-for-bg1-ee-and-bg2-ee. You will have Poision Weapon as you remember it.
    mf2112AerakarsemiticgodOrlonKronsteen
  • Benny89Benny89 Member Posts: 6
    edited September 10
    Thank you very much. I will keep that I mind but I wish also for clear answer regarding which version of BG:EE nerfed Posion Weapon. Please give me the patch/version number.

    Also- it was not nerfed in BG:EE, right? Only in BG2?

    And thanks for mod link, I will check it too :)
    JuliusBorisov
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,338
    It was nerfed when SoD, and V2.0 came in, so V1.3 should be what you are looking for.

    Keep in mind however that you'll also miss some of the new content that was added with V2.0+ (Shaman class for example). I strongly advise that you use the mod instead, but then again, do as you want :smiley:
    AerakarsemiticgodJuliusBorisovOrlonKronsteen
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 542
    edited September 11
    @JuliusBorisov

    Is it possible for you guys to consider implementing a slightly better version for the Assassin? I think the nerf was good for the Blackguard, but it seems a bit weak for the assassin at lower levels.

    Tressets mod works as well though.
    AerakardunbarOrlonKronsteen
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,059
    Mods are your friend. Either pick one of the many excellent existing mods that change PW, or modify it yourself - since it's just one ability, it isn't very hard to fiddle with the values a bit.
    semiticgodJuliusBorisov
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 7,095
    The later versions will have fewer bugs, better UI, and will be compatible with more mods. Go with the latest version and just use a mod to restore the original version of Poison Weapon.
    JuliusBorisovAerakarOrlonKronsteen
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 12,699
    The 2.0 patch has brought hundreds of fixes to BG. Look at the master document with patch notes, which describe all the fixes https://s3.amazonaws.com/beamdog.com/release_notes/ReleaseNotes080616.pdf . One of the changes involved the Poison Weapon balance change.

    As for further tweaking this ability, let's wait closer to 2.5, to understand possibilities and the scope of patching.
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,844

    As for further tweaking this ability, let's wait closer to 2.5, to understand possibilities and the scope of patching.

    Off-topic: so 2.5 is still so far away that it's not even worth talking about? Ouch.
    OrlonKronsteenLuke93
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,125
    Of course, if you are playing on the Mac App Store, or a mobile platform, 1.3 is the perfect solution as we don't have access to the later patches. :). As a Mac user, we are not even projected to get the 2.4 patch either, which is specific to mobile OSes, so we can enjoy the nerf-free gameplay until at least the 2.5 patch cycle at some unknown point in the future!
    OrlonKronsteen
  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 516
    @JuliusBorisov is a further review of the Assassin poison weapon ability even a possibility by the developers at this point?

    Another option could also be earlier higher back-stab multiples.
    OrlonKronsteen
  • Artemius_IArtemius_I Member Posts: 2,003
    edited September 13
    It might not be what you're after but I did make my own reworked version of the assassin with significant changes to the poison. It doesn't stack, but lasts 8 hours until a successful attack is made, reduces Constitution, and can potentially last forever if the target repeatedly fails saves vs. death. I think what makes it really powerful though is that the first application of poison doesn't allow a saving throw, so it's guaranteed to have an effect. I can make a stripped down version of the mod with just the poison.

    Mod here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/64119/kit-rework-way-of-the-assassin-v1-1
    Aerakar
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 1,865
    I had always edited Poison Weapon to be usable once per day per level of the assassin, lasts one round per level of the assassin, does 1 point of damage per second, and allows a saving throw versus poison for only half damage. That may seem like a lot but it is actually quite balanced--a 13th level assassin gets 13 uses per day, it lasts 13 rounds, and will wind up doing 78 damage unless they save for half. Enemy hit points are generally high in BG2EE so the damage alone doesn't kill most things and there are plenty of enemies who are fully immune to poison, anyway.

    Of course, once you let your assassin use something like the Tuigan Bow to get 3 shots per round the stacking gets a little crazy.
    Aerakar
  • Benny89Benny89 Member Posts: 6
    edited September 15
    Thank you all. I am old school gamer and for me nerfing anything in Single Player RPGs is just unnecessary (to call it lightly). There is no PvP here or anything and BG1 and BG2 were out for almost 20 years and nothing ever was nerfed. I mean- nerfing something in 20-year old game when you can still have things like Sorcerer or Kensai/Mage or Cleric/Rogue etc. is for me personally just a sign of nowadays fashion of "balanced SP games".

    I mean for SP RPGs there are always mods, save editors, Cheat Engines, Cheats in game etc. I see no point of nerfing anything in Single Player games. Even this mod. Why even nerf if people will just install mod to make it same as pre-nerf again. Wasn't it easier to just make a mod that nerf it and allow those who want to have BG weaker use it? I don't see sense here :)

    Also was old Posion Weapon really as powerful as some of most broken builds in BG2 or even purce Sorcerer?- I don't think so :). There are still combos that makes game trivial even after 20 years- so what? :). And that is why this game is still awesome. Till this day I did not play all strongest combos. It is "role playing game", not Dark Souls.

    I will use mod, but honestly I am supprised after so many years seeing that even such old game as BG have to suffer from new age "balanced" single player RPGs :)

    Thanks all for help!
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,338
    Benny89 said:



    Also was old Posion Weapon really as powerful as some of most broken builds in BG2 or even purce Sorcerer?- I don't think so :).


    Why, yes. Not as a pure assassin, but as a blackguard or even a Assassin=>Mage it certainly was on just about the same power level as these "broken builds". Even SCS mages had no way of defending themselves against Gesen+Arrow of Detonation+Poison Weapon sent from a (Vhailor Helm) Simulacrum
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,844
    Also remember Poison Weapon was designed for high-level play, in SoA. Here's an analogue to better explain:

    Delayed Blast Fireball does 1d6/level of damage. But, you can't cast it before 13th level. So the devs didn't add effects to the .spl file that do 12d6, or 11d6, etc. The first spell header does 13d6, and its "min_level" field is 1. So if you went back and gave the spell to a 1st-level mage, it would do 13d6 damage. Which is wrong, because it's only supposed to do 1d6 per level.

    Well, a kitted thief could start vanilla SoA at no lower than 9th level. And you could have this Poison Weapon ability. No one ever gave any thought to how it should work for 1st-level Assassins, or for Blackguards, because those things didn't exist. Do it was the-worked frpm the ground up. Compromises were made. On balance, I like it, because it's not a win-button, but it is still dangerous for foes (especially casters) and very useful. But of course YMMV.
    ThacoBellbleusteelAerakarsemiticgod
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