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SoD: What ending were you hoping for? (Spoilers)

The first time I played BG2 I was really annoyed when I discovered that somewhere 'off-screen' my whole party had been ambushed and abducted. I remember sitting there thinking "How the hell did that happen? How come I didn't put up a fight?"

So I was really hoping that SoD would address this. And before I played it I was pretty sure I knew how it would be done. Me and my party would have defeated the Big Boss and the adventure would seemingly be over. We would have one more map to travel to so I would click on that and expect to get there. But we would never reach our destination because the doom-laden words: "You have been waylaid by enemies and must defend yourself," would come booming out and we would find ourselves in the middle of a path like this:

image

Only it wouldn't be bandits surrounding me it would be a whole host of enemies that I couldn't possibly hope to defeat. But I would of course fight them, hoping against hope to win even though I knew it was futile. And somewhere over the din of battle I would hear Irenicus's voice shouting: "I want them taken alive!".

It would be a titanic struggle (and I would of course earn experience for every enemy I managed to kill so the fight would have some meaning and replay value). But one by one me and my comrades would be beaten unconscious until everyone of us was out of the fight. And then, and only then, Irenicus would reveal himself. He would stride out onto the battlefield, where the corpses would be lying in mounds around me, and say: "Now you are mine child of Bhaal!"

And the screen would go blood red and the music would swell forth and a voice would say: "To be continued in Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn."

Anyway, that's what I thought was going to happen.

I was a bit disappointed to be honest.
typo_tillyMush_MushIllustair

Comments

  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 4,944
    Honestly, I didn't know what to expect, but I thought we'd see a genie. The fellow from Chateau Irenicus who says he had a part in your capture.

    Your idea would have been pretty cool. No doubt some people would have figured out how to defeat everyone (see the start of Black Pits 2), but the fight still would have been cool. :)

    Also, maybe Irenicus steps out and starts a light show, effectively putting everyone down. Pre-set actions like Gorion's battle.
    Mush_MushPermidion_StarkArtona
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,888
    It worked okay for me, but maybe you could work on a mod to change the ending to something closer to what you wanted?
    StummvonBordwehr
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 767
    edited September 11
    I have played the old game connected to be one by the BGT mod. So I had some experience with how you finally would be delivered to Amn (via Mae Vaer working for Irenicus). The question would be how and why they made you leave Baldur's Gate and go out adventuring again instead of sitting the rest of your days in the Elfsong and being celebrated as hero.
    For a long time player, I find the transition fitting. You fall a long way down and have to start all over again in a foreign place, a nobody, a prisoner.
    There is no turning back into safety - there is only the way forward. You must face the next chapter of the story.
    StummvonBordwehrtypo_tillymf2112
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 767

    This is great to see SoD discussion.

    I'll again quote Andrew Foley, this time on the subject of the lack of the final battle.

    "Whether or not the Hooded Man should make an appearance and how best to present the Bhaalspawn's Fall in the final seconds of the game was a major debate in the office.

    At various points in the development it was a fight with the initial attackers that couldn't be won and a cutscene. I pitched the idea of making the initial attack extremely difficult but winnable, with the Hooded Man showing up if the initial attackers lost, taking out the PC & Co, and a familiar voice saying something like "Bring the Bhaalspawn and any others that survived--They may prove useful to me" as the scene fades to black.

    A number of factors went into the decision to go with a cinematic.

    The Hooded Man attacking wasn't mentioned in the opening of BG2EE and we wanted to avoid contradicting it (even though I still think it would've been a cool thing to have for someone that managed to beat an incredibly difficult initial attack wave, like a 1 in 200 chance of beating the attack).

    A cut-scene would take control away from the player, which could be frustrating if the party responded in a way the player would consider out of character.

    And as a general it's not a lot of fun for players to be faced with a battle the characters have absolutely no way of winning, regardless of how narratively or canonically correct the loss is.

    Ultimately, the Bhaalspawn had to fall for BG2EE to happen. A cinematic seemed the best option to give the moment maximum drama and entertainment value to a moment few designers want to end their game with: a no-win situation for the player. That cinematic was among the last elements to be inserted into the game."

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/745655/#Comment_745655

    If you want to see the original battle and transition, just play the game with EET (the benefit of a mod is that you can do what comercial developpers understandably can't). The hooded man does not appear here either, such jobs are below him.
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 509
    It's not as compelling as the BG2 intro made it I guess. The entire epilogue was a disappointment to me though, that's how I've felt about it. And it will always bother me whenever I replay it.

    A cut-scene would take control away from the player, which could be frustrating if the party responded in a way the player would consider out of character.

    And as a general it's not a lot of fun for players to be faced with a battle the characters have absolutely no way of winning, regardless of how narratively or canonically correct the loss is.


    But in a way that already happened when you were apprehended after standing over Skies body and the trial gives you very little control over anything, it's a smaller version of the luskan trial in nwn 2.

    And it's a bigger issue when the slow fade-out is directly in odds with the BG2 intro. Which makes it seem like a blurry, but at least chaotic ambush.
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,888
    edited September 11
    batoor said:

    It's not as compelling as the BG2 intro made it I guess. The entire epilogue was a disappointment to me though, that's how I've felt about it. And it will always bother me whenever I replay it.

    A cut-scene would take control away from the player, which could be frustrating if the party responded in a way the player would consider out of character.

    And as a general it's not a lot of fun for players to be faced with a battle the characters have absolutely no way of winning, regardless of how narratively or canonically correct the loss is.


    But in a way that already happened when you were apprehended after standing over Skies body and the trial gives you very little control over anything, it's a smaller version of the luskan trial in nwn 2.

    And it's a bigger issue when the slow fade-out is directly in odds with the BG2 intro. Which makes it seem like a blurry, but at least chaotic ambush.
    I just watched the BG2 intro, been a while, but the fade out matches it pretty closely actually. Here are the subtitles at that point.

    "You killed your brother, sending his taint back to Bhaal. You were the hero of Baldur's Gate, but some suspected you shared the same lineage as Sarevok.

    You departed soon after, under circumstances much darker than anyone would have believed.

    They came as you rested, figures cloaked in mist that clouded your thoughts, blurring the lines between consciousness and dreaming.

    There was no malice or hatred, no mention of an old score, only a quick capture and the promise of grim deeds to come..."
    JuliusBorisovThacoBelltypo_tilly
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 767
    mf2112 said:

    batoor said:

    It's not as compelling as the BG2 intro made it I guess. The entire epilogue was a disappointment to me though, that's how I've felt about it. And it will always bother me whenever I replay it.

    A cut-scene would take control away from the player, which could be frustrating if the party responded in a way the player would consider out of character.

    And as a general it's not a lot of fun for players to be faced with a battle the characters have absolutely no way of winning, regardless of how narratively or canonically correct the loss is.


    But in a way that already happened when you were apprehended after standing over Skies body and the trial gives you very little control over anything, it's a smaller version of the luskan trial in nwn 2.

    And it's a bigger issue when the slow fade-out is directly in odds with the BG2 intro. Which makes it seem like a blurry, but at least chaotic ambush.
    I just watched the BG2 intro, been a while, but the fade out matches it pretty closely actually. Here are the subtitles at that point.

    "You killed your brother, sending his taint back to Bhaal. You were the hero of Baldur's Gate, but some suspected you shared the same lineage as Sarevok.

    You departed soon after, under circumstances much darker than anyone would have believed.

    They came as you rested, figures cloaked in mist that clouded your thoughts, blurring the lines between consciousness and dreaming.

    There was no malice or hatred, no mention of an old score, only a quick capture and the promise of grim deeds to come..."
    Sorry, I made a mistake in my earlier post. I forgot that I always play the EET version where you play through this whole sequence in one.

    Playing it this way in EET, the ambush, your attempt to battle the thieves, your party slowly losing consciousness and then the BG2 intro and your slow awakening in Irenicus dungeon.
    It fits. I can't swear that EET may not have tweaked it a bit to fit but I don't think so.
    mf2112
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,024
    Conceptually, I think the devs were on the right track. But the execution was a little rough around the edges.
    tbone1
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 922
    ThacoBell said:

    Conceptually, I think the devs were on the right track. But the execution was a little rough around the edges.

    Given what we read about the size of the scope changing (big/small/big), that isn't a surprise.
    mf2112ThacoBell
  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 334
    edited September 12
    Something that doesn't involve clicking through dialogues that don't matter anyway, because the trial is a farce and so is the escape from the dungeon. :|

    I think the biggest disappointment was the main plot. I guess I expected that it would focus more on tying up the loose ends from BG1. I expected for charname to learn more about the Time of Troubles and their heritage, which they didn't have the chance to do so before. To see what happened to the Iron Throne and the rest of Sarevok's followers. Maybe to hear about the Zhentarim - just how did Monty & Xzar get to Athkatla, and how did they get tangled up with the Harpers? And on the topic of companions - to learn what happened to those that traveled with you, but don't appear in the sequel.

    It starts out promising enough, with hunting down the remaining followers and then finding Sarevok's note. But then charname just goes on this grand adventure that has little to do with either BG1 or BG2, despite the cameos by the hooded man.

    Frankly, I think SoD would make a great standalone game in the Icewind series, but as an expansion to BG1 it just doesn't fit that well.
    Permidion_StarkIllustairUnderstandMouseMagic
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 3,104

    Honestly, I didn't know what to expect, but I thought we'd see a genie. The fellow from Chateau Irenicus who says he had a part in your capture.

    I'd forgotten the genie was involved. It would have been fun if he'd shown up.
    mf2112 said:

    It worked okay for me, but maybe you could work on a mod to change the ending to something closer to what you wanted?

    I can't even work out how to install a mod so I don't think creating one is an option.
    chimaera said:

    Frankly, I think SoD would make a great standalone game in the Icewind series, but as an expansion to BG1 it just doesn't fit that well.

    Yes, that's kind of how I felt . I actually really enjoyed most of it (until I got to all of the nonsense with Skie). I thought it was really well put together. I liked lots of the dialogues and the dungeons were really good. But it felt like the wrong plot for this point in the story.
    Illustair
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