Druidic vs clerical magic

Klorox

Which is better and why?

I have a party in BGI right now that I plan on exporting and playing in BGII when I finish the game.

That means I have 3 tomes of understanding to distribute.

This is a Legacy of Bhaal game, and the party includes a druid (totem kit) and a fighter/cleric.

Who should get all 3 WIS increases?

Grond0

You can justify either. I'm currently playing a LoB game and decided to give the tomes to the druid. That was principally to get an extra 5th level spell as they're so great for druids. However, I could equally have decided to get an extra skeleton warrior for the cleric given how wonderful they are (great in the standard game, but even better in LoB).

bob_veng

anyone with wisdom lower than 18 must NOT get the tomes because it's a waste. if you have a mage that can reach wis 18 use the appropriate number of tomes on him, and the rest doesn't matter

if both the cleric and druid have wis 18, druid should get it for the bonus lvl 5 slot (pretty good)

cleric (or fighter/cleric, doesn't matter) doesn't really need any of the bonus slots because he won't be casting a lot as he gains levels (he will be fighting a lot more) and he'll have a ton of slots by that point as well (in ToB for example). more spell slots for him will be more cosmetic than functional.

Wesboi

Im team druid always thought clerics was overrated but that's clearly my own opinion.

Borek

I think it'll be more useful for the druid since i assume you haven't modified the XP tables, so it'll level fairly slowly even being single class.

ThacoBell

Depends on what you want. I personally always use a Druid over a cleric.

jsaving

If druids could cast lesser restoration and raise dead, I'd pick them over clerics every time. Because they don't, I usually go with cleric.

Grond0

@jsaving if you're talking raise dead then presumably you're not thinking of BG1. In SoD and BG2 there are plenty of scrolls / items that druids can use to do restoration and raise dead.

Skatan

Druids low level spells are really, really lackluster and since WIS benefits mostly the first levels of spells, I'd argue clerics gains more from it than druids. If you can reach WIS 21, as others have said above, that can help the druid of course but is it worth it for one single extra level 5 spell? I'd rather take the added level 1-4 spells on my cleric to get a few extra utility spells and the added level 5 for another casting of ie chaotic commands.

bob_veng

Skatan said:

Druids low level spells are really, really lackluster and since WIS benefits mostly the first levels of spells, I'd argue clerics gains more from it than druids. If you can reach WIS 21, as others have said above, that can help the druid of course but is it worth it for one single extra level 5 spell?

i'd say yes. the druid needs that one slot more than a cleric needs 10 lvl 1-4 slots. a cleric would also benefit from a level 5 slot, but it's really a crucial set of spells for a druid (insect plague, iron skins) and for a cleric not so much

extremeragnarok

With my playstyle, the only reason to have a cleric is for Protection From Evil, 10' radius.

karnor00

Generally I think clerics get better spells. Particularly for healing and buffing.

On the other hand druids get Iron Skins which is amazing. So much so that it’s pretty much a toss up.

Plus the elemental prince summon hla is awesome too.

Neverused

The main difference is that Druids are primarily offensive spell casters or summonses while clerics are more geared for physical combat or defense. I'd give the extra spell to the Druid, simply because level 5 spells on Clerics are kind of middling while Insect Plague and Pixie dust are amazing for LoB. The only consideration is Greater Command, but Insect Plague is generally better IMO

WarChiefZeke

Avengers are a better pick than cleric, spell wise, and are useful at all levels in my view. Otherwise it's more or less up to preference come BG2, with each specializing in certain things.

But the druid ends up dominating spell wise by the end of BG1. Those wood nymphs and their spell list just add way too much to reasonably compare the two.

DevardKrown

Pure Druid vs Pure Cleric , the cleric wins out right, he has the better spells , the better combat prowess and can resurrect people.

the only 2 druid spells standing out is insect swarm which can shut down a mage , and iron skin ...but the whole druid lvl 2 tree is garbage.

if we go into dual/multi classing the cleric wins again , since the druid only can pick fighter , which improves his lack there considerable. while the cleric could go mage/cleric making him the spellslinger god , trading off progression speed for the pure amount of spells.

as for kits , all cleric kits just add one spell and one ability for a alignment restriction.
the druid kits are mostly garbage. Shapeshifter is useless ,the totemic druid animal is just another summon.
the avenger however trades stats for more spells , which are somewhat decent and makes it possible the best of the 3.

Grond0

DevardKrown said:

the totemic druid animal is just another summon.

That's a bit like saying that planetars are just another summon. If you don't like using summons then the totemic druid is not for you, but if you do like using summons the totemic ones are an extremely powerful option.

ThacoBell

DevardKrown said:

Pure Druid vs Pure Cleric , the cleric wins out right, he has the better spells , the better combat prowess and can resurrect people.

the only 2 druid spells standing out is insect swarm which can shut down a mage , and iron skin ...but the whole druid lvl 2 tree is garbage.

if we go into dual/multi classing the cleric wins again , since the druid only can pick fighter , which improves his lack there considerable. while the cleric could go mage/cleric making him the spellslinger god , trading off progression speed for the pure amount of spells.

as for kits , all cleric kits just add one spell and one ability for a alignment restriction.
the druid kits are mostly garbage. Shapeshifter is useless ,the totemic druid animal is just another summon.
the avenger however trades stats for more spells , which are somewhat decent and makes it possible the best of the 3.

Hahahhaaha

Wesboi

Druids>evil cleric>healing potions>good cleric

OlvynChuru

The Clerics vs. Druids comparison depends on what game you're playing.

In the original non-EE Baldur's Gate, clerics are better because of their summoning spells. Since there was no summoning limit in the original game, summoning spells were really, really powerful. Both clerics and druids had Animal Summoning 1, but only clerics had Animate Dead and only druids could get Animal Summoning 2 (since clerics couldn't get 5th level spells). Animate Dead was overall a better spell than Animal Summoning 2 because it was obtained at a lower level, it could be cast by a multiclassed character, it could be cast more times per day (more level 3 spell slots than level 5 spell slots), and the skeletons lasted for 8 hours.

In BG1:EE, druids are better. The main advantage that druids have over clerics in BG1 is the ability to cast 5th level spells. In BG1:EE druids have a very wide selection of 5th level spells, and a lot of them are really, really good (most notably Chaotic Commands, Iron Skins and Insect Plague). In addition, they have the Summon Woodland Beings spell, which is even better than Animate Dead. The Avenger and Totemic Druid kits are also much better than any of the cleric kits in this game.

In BG2:EE, clerics are better. Clerics tend to be better in high-level games because druid power doesn't scale well. The Totemic Druid's summons stop getting better at level 10, the Shapeshifter's shapeshifting abilities stop getting better at level 13, and the Avenger doesn't gain any new 7th level spells. Even though druids tend to be more offensive spell-oriented than clerics, clerics end up being better in that regard in BG2 because they have Flame Strike (which can do up to 20d8 damage) and druids don't.

ThacoBell

@OlvynChuru I dunno about the BG2 comparison. Insect Plague/Creeping Doom are "I win" buttons for 90% of the game.

broshimo

ThacoBell said:

@OlvynChuru I dunno about the BG2 comparison. Insect Plague/Creeping Doom are "I win" buttons for 90% of the game.

Yes exactly this. Insect Plague should be the first spell cast against a dragon after lowering their magic resistance, and any mage without Spell Turning (be very careful against the Cowled Wizards!!!!) is eliminated. Nature's Beauty confirms wins as well, and I prefer it to Creeping Doom as a 7th level spell. Both are fantastic late SoA and ToB.

Grond0

broshimo said:

Insect Plague should be the first spell cast against a dragon after lowering their magic resistance, and any mage without Spell Turning (be very careful against the Cowled Wizards!!!!) is eliminated.

Works on those mages as well - just cast it at a summons and move the summons up near to the mage as the projectile is on the way (spell turning only blocks the spell initially, it doesn't stop the subsequent spread).

malachi151

Druids basically have 2 or 3 OP spells, and the rest is crap, and yet the few good spells they have are so powerful that it's worth dragging them along just to cast those spells. This gives me mixed feelings about Druids.

Hey, yeah, come along, just so you can constantly summon hordes of insects, that somehow defeat basically every opponent.

Seriously, those insects are the most powerful creatures in the land...

ThacoBell

malachi151 said:

Druids basically have 2 or 3 OP spells, and the rest is crap, and yet the few good spells they have are so powerful that it's worth dragging them along just to cast those spells. This gives me mixed feelings about Druids.

Hey, yeah, come along, just so you can constantly summon hordes of insects, that somehow defeat basically every opponent.

Seriously, those insects are the most powerful creatures in the land...

Nah, everything outside of their level 2 selection is perfectly useful. Druids are generally great spellcasters throughout the spellbook, their level 2 selection is just lacking.

DreadKhan

Also lvl 1 is lackluster, lvl 3 is marginally better. Lvl 4 things pick up, and 5th you finally shine. I think there is some validity in noting how few top tier druid spells exist, but its hardly like mages don't have filler spells I never cast. *shrug*

malachi151

Removing Insect Plague would make Druids totally worthless. There is no single spell you can remove from Mages that would have a comparable effect.

DreadKhan

Druids aren't quite 1 trick ponies, they still get elementals and elemental form. Avengers can quite reasonably choose Chaos over Insects, and still have a pretty reliable win-button. Its utterly broken in BG1, and still worth casting at high levels.

Grond0

malachi151 said:

Removing Insect Plague would make Druids totally worthless. There is no single spell you can remove from Mages that would have a comparable effect.

I agree insect plague is an incredibly useful spell, but saying everything else is totally worthless seems odd. Other spells just at level 5 include chaotic commands, iron skins, pixie dust and true seeing .

I guess you're considering the value from the context of a party where other characters can duplicate a lot of spells, but I don't think that's the point. There are lots of ways to make progress through the game and druids offer plenty of options to do that.

ThacoBell

Nature's friggin Beauty my friend. Use it.

Pantalion

Which is better and why? - Eh. Druids get far worse buffs (and no sanctuary is a tragedy), their summons don't really compensate (Animate Dead is pretty darn great), but their overpowered level 5 spell is great, and Nature's Beauty is cheesetastic. A Mage/Druid would probably be better than a Mage/Cleric, but since they don't exist in BG, the best Cleric is better, and the Cleric/Ranger without the "fix" is second.

Who should get the tomes? - Assuming 18 Wisdom for each, the Druid. The extra Insect Plague at 21 Wisdom is worth it, and Druids are almost completely reliant on level 5 spells to be relevant. Lum's machine to 22 for another Wisdom and if the Druid is a CHARNAME then good up that trial for 23 Wisdom and +4 Insect Plagues a day.

Dev6

malachi151 said:

Removing Insect Plague would make Druids totally worthless.

*I have no idea how to use Druids so I'm gonna say they're worthless.

I fixed that for you.