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Stats for Pique?

Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 3,192
Apparently Imoen was a late addition to Baldur's Gate and the dialogue she uses originally came from a character named Pique who was a guard in an unreleased demo of the game. I was wondering if anyone had come across the stats for this character while burrowing about in the game engine?

http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Imoen

typo_tilly

Comments

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,508
    STR: 15
    DEX: 10
    CON: 10
    INT: 14
    WIS: 9
    CHR:12

    typo_tillyPermidion_StarkJuliusBorisovThacoBell
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 3,192
    Thanks @elminster

    I'm planning to create the character of Pique as part of a party for a future run through. It's good to know her actual stats.

    Since she was a guard of some type I figure I will make her a vanilla Fighter with proficiencies in Long Sword and a missile weapon - probably crossbow.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,508
    edited October 9
    Pique (at least the character file) is actually a male. Also proficiency wise he has 3 points in large sword proficiency and 2 points in small sword proficiency (he is level 3).

    Permidion_StarkPaulaMigrateJuliusBorisovThacoBell
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 3,192
    That's odd? Maybe they changed the character's gender when they decided to use the dialogues for Imoen instead. Mind you the idea that Imoen's dialogues were made up of abandoned recordings for a character called Pique has always seemed strange to me. I mean why doesn't she introduce herself by saying "Heya! It's me Pique!"

  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,021
    edited October 9
    Pique with the same stats etc also appears in the game as NTPique via a very old mod "Northern Tales of the Sword Coast". He appears in the Northern Citadel, a place where Duke Eltan sends you to investigate strange occurances.
    I have played the mod many times in classic BGT games and now again in EET. Although I noticed the name and also knew about the Imoen story, only with these statistics I discovered today that this is the very same person.
    So NTotSC gave the poor guy a home after Imoen drove him out of Candlekeep.

    Here are the two guys:

    Permidion_StarkJuliusBorisovAerakar
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 3,192
    This has all got me more intrigued than ever. I'd love to know how Pique was originally going to be used. Imoen may not have many interactions compared with the other NPCs but she has got an awful lot of voiced dialogue for a minor character in a demo game, which is where all her lines apparently came from.

  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 3,192
    @JuliusBorisov

    Thanks so much for that. It's fascinating. Boy did Pique have a lot of lines! Speech 7 is like something out of PS:T. Interestingly though a lot of it does sound right if you try to imagine it in Imoen's voice.

    Apparently this Eldoth wasn't the Eldoth we all know and love but just someone of the same name. I found a discussion about it here: https://www.gog.com/forum/baldurs_gate_series/cut_content_eldoth_kron

    My guess is that the story is about doppelgangers and Captain Eldoth Kron has been murdered and replaced. They seem to have had a thing about doppelgangers when they were developing BG1.

    JuliusBorisovAerakar
  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 421
    If you go through all the unused dialogue it's more like Eldoth was under the spell of an Ogre mage "Krotan". There is an old dicussion with the texts in the bg1ub forum starting here (all posts dealing with "Ajantis and the missing monks".) As already mentioned, NTotSC uses all connected (unused) game dialogues for its "Mystery at the Northern Citadel" quest.

    JuliusBorisovPermidion_StarkAerakar
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,021
    edited October 10

    Mind you, there're no other responses (by the main character) to Pique's lines that I can see, but nonetheless here're his lines:

    1. 'Ere there, pssst. This way.
    I've got a word or two for you, but when I'm done talkin' I never said a word, understand?

    Responses:
    I have no time for secret meetings, fool. Begone with your games.
    Speak that I might know your intent.
    What is your purpose here at the keep?

    2. Pique I am, and I am a member of the guard. At least I was when there was a guard to speak of. The new captain has made it otherwise.

    Responses:
    Slander of your superiors is no trait of a guard! I trust you not!
    I have no time for secret meetings, fool. Begone with your games.
    Speak! That I might know your intent.

    4. If Eldoth bears the traits of a guard, you are lucky to be alive to mistrust me! Bah! It was a mistake to speak with you! I am done with all of this!

    5. I ain't no monk who takes a kick and then turns the other cheek to take another! You no want my help, then so be it! Do yourself a favor though, and search well again the quarters of Eldoth. I go now and hope never to again lay eyes upon this accursed place.

    6. My intent be to get out of this place alive. Guard duties or no, the pay be not near enough for dying. I know who be taking the missing people. I seen 'im! It was Eldoth!

    Responses:
    Eldoth had much to gain with the disappearance of the captain, but this is hardly a reason for such crimes.
    And why should I believe you? You said nothing till now! Perhaps you just wish me to remove Eldoth so you can captain the guard!
    Then he will be dead before the morning! With righteous fury we shall smite him down!

    7. Are you mad? Does captain of the guard seem such a glorious position to you? One worth murder and kidnapping? Use some sense! There is more here than you see! Feh! I have not time to spell things out to you! Fling your accusations where you will, but watch your back. I am gone, and I leave you to whatever fate you make. Hmph! I will at least save my OWN life.
    8. Eh, so that's yer plan then? There's more to this story I fear, and your blade may have to work a fair bit harder than you think. By all means, throw yourself at him, but watch carefully what is BEHIND his actions. I leave you to your... glorious bloodbath. *sniff*
    9. Aye, this is what I thought too! Once the main garrison returns from the Coast Way, they would simply replace him as captain. There is more to it, something stranger. I saw him when last dark fell, when he dragged off the monk Montgomery. It was a masterful ambush when night was darkest, and I thought myself lucky to have discovered him. A single snapped twig gave away his position, and I followed slow, ready to leap to rescue. I stopped meself short though, when he turned and looked RIGHT AT ME! He knew my every move, as though he PLANNED for me to see him! His face showed no such cunning at that moment though. Blank he was, blank as the night around us. I had not the nerve to approach, and his eyes seemed to show sadness when I did not move, though his face remained stone cold. He walked away slowly, almost haltingly, while I sat there shivering. Here, take this. He dropped it, and I know not what it means. I am done with this place. There is something most unnatural here, and I want no part of it. Fare you well.

    *** Do you hear Imoen here? :)

    10. Listen carefully friend. I know that Eldoth is somehow involved in these disappearances. If you want to find out more, I think it would be wise of you to search his quarters.
    11. I leave this accursed place; I have no time to speak with you.

    So it looks like Eldoth was supposed to be involved in disappearances. Did he mean Eldoth the NPC, though?

    Sorry, I forgot to mention that the dialogue lines for the two NPCs are nearly identical and those lines actually are connected to the NTotSC quest. The NTotSC version just has quest specific triggers and actions added to it. The Eldoth mentioned here is not Skie's Eldoth but the villain of that mod's subquest who is named Eldod.
    You notice it when you put the two dialogues side by side, Eldoth vs Eldod.

    tbone1
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,547
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,021
    jastey said:

    If you go through all the unused dialogue it's more like Eldoth was under the spell of an Ogre mage "Krotan". There is an old dicussion with the texts in the bg1ub forum starting here (all posts dealing with "Ajantis and the missing monks".) As already mentioned, NTotSC uses all connected (unused) game dialogues for its "Mystery at the Northern Citadel" quest.

    The references to Eldoth were changed to Eldod in NTotSC. He is the one under the ogre spell. For the other dialogues it's right, they are all used in the plot, A number of other dialogues and NPCs was created around them to make up a story. The quest itself is not connected to Ajantis.
    The quest resembles in some way the murder mystery of Umberto Eco's "The Name of the Rose". Just that it adds some Ogre mage as the villain.
    Very interesting to see how that episode was constructed by using this and that ingredience to mix the stew.

  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 421
    Yes, you are right. The NPCs' names were changed in NTotSC (originally in the unused game files, it was Ajantis being the protagonist, Yeslick, Shar'Teel and Tiax being mercenaries, and Eldoth being the acting Captain of some citadel of sorts.)

    PaulaMigrateThacoBell
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,021
    jastey said:

    Yes, you are right. The NPCs' names were changed in NTotSC (originally in the unused game files, it was Ajantis being the protagonist, Yeslick, Shar'Teel and Tiax being mercenaries, and Eldoth being the acting Captain of some citadel of sorts.)

    With that background information, Orpeho (Tiax) lines now make sense *Orpeho knows he will rule in the end.* or *when Orpeho rules Paladins won't be such a pain in the backside.*

    Next time I play through the mod episode, I'll keep my eyes wide open to these details.

  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 421
    Yes, Orpeho= Tiax, Kamira = Shar'Teel, Mardoron(?) = Yeslick.
    Brentaw (for whom the game dlg AJANTD.dlg is used partially) has Ajantis' voiceset, too. :) Maybe the other mercenaries have the according NPCs' voicesets, but those I don't know well enough.

    I am updating NTotSC currently (k4thos' BGT/EET version). I fixed a lot of bugs and closed a lot of holes. I will post an announcement when it's ready.

    ronaldoJuliusBorisov
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,021
    edited October 10
    jastey said:

    Yes, Orpeho= Tiax, Kamira = Shar'Teel, Mardoron(?) = Yeslick.
    Brentaw (for whom the game dlg AJANTD.dlg is used partially) has Ajantis' voiceset, too. :) Maybe the other mercenaries have the according NPCs' voicesets, but those I don't know well enough.

    I am updating NTotSC currently (k4thos' BGT/EET version). I fixed a lot of bugs and closed a lot of holes. I will post an announcement when it's ready.

    k4thos' BGT/EET version? Was that released meanwhile? It's been announced ever since EET was released but never appeared. I must have missed it.
    I'm still using the inofficial EET-interim which I found has any old bugs fixed as well. I didn't find new ones with it. Is yours a kind of wrap-up including all of those efforts?

  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 421
    edited October 10
    k4thos started BGT/EET version but did not finish it, so there was no release. I took it and fixed bugs, added a proper journal system, and some other cosmetic things that makes the quests more stable (no dead ends any more, hopefully). This version is in alpha testing, but there will be a beta version hopefully next weekend.

  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,021
    edited October 10
    Too bad.
    Based on something from k4thos posts, I had provided all my fixes and findings from my recent EET playthrough to the interim-version for inclusion. I wasn't even aware someone had taken over k4thos efforts.
    Maybe there is a way to get such stuff out from the github? I have no idea how that github works but I've not kept copies of my patches once they were included into the master files there.
    Or maybe Roxanne at Spellhold has kept the PMs I sent to her?

  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 421
    You mean your bug findings went into the interim version? I did a compare between all dialogue and script files of the interim and k4thos' version and considered the changes. Only problems with area or creatures files (animations, entrances...) I couldn't detect that way. I alpha tested my version on BGT the last days. It looks good so far. (I found a lot of bugs myself.)

  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,451
    All this information about hidden quests/characters/plots is really BG's own Nether Scroll.

    So thanks very much to everybody who has discovered all this stuff, it's fascinating.

    Though it does make you wish all the various bits and pieces were part of the "proper" game. And also wonder if the story might have been better overall?

    I can understand the fixation with dopplegangers, I find them much more sinister than the Mind Flayers in BG2 simply because they are so proactive. I always thought it a shame they didn't appear in BG2 more to find out more about them. They are a great enemy.

    tbone1JuliusBorisovThacoBell
  • PaulaMigratePaulaMigrate Member Posts: 1,021
    edited October 11
    jastey said:

    You mean your bug findings went into the interim version? I did a compare between all dialogue and script files of the interim and k4thos' version and considered the changes. Only problems with area or creatures files (animations, entrances...) I couldn't detect that way. I alpha tested my version on BGT the last days. It looks good so far. (I found a lot of bugs myself.)

    Good to hear. After my last suggestions a few days back, a fix for the vampire sword was added that makes the mod now fully compatible with the Vault mod. Just need to add some conditions to one dialogue file for this. If I remember correctly it was that Torkion ghost's d file only.

    Kusel
  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 421
    I found this change and made a note, but I didn't know which mod it was for. Good point, I will add this to my version, too.

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