i had the ideas most of you have what changed ? i was watching the movie "Book of Shadows: Blair Witch 2 (2000)" in my playstation 2 with a friend up until the scene where the party was around a fire then the camera was focusing as the fire paved the air then my right thump slipped into the pause button, i looked at my hand and i was trying to figure out how did my thump slipped then i looked at the tv and i saw the word "Seek" that pretty much creeped me out i had heard of subliminal messages but i didnt really believe it was true i was pondering at a different time intervals for six months why the word "Seek" and one day as i was walking out of a Cinema i watched the title of the movie that was currently playing the title was "Seek the Truth" and the movie was the Da Vinci Code. Then i said !@$% off i am not gonna watch that ##$%^ then i heard what that movie was about and pretty much here i am...
@FinneousPJ Sorry to break your elitist bubble, but I have studied many different religions and am constantly questioning my own. But if you have some evidence against it, go ahead and send it to me. I'd love to see it.
Frankly, there is 0 reason to be so belligerant about what other people believe. My beliefs don't affect you, so the only reason I can see for your blithe comments is to put others down.
What bubble is that supposed to break? And what are you asking evidence for? I don't understand.
I'm not being belligerent. I don't mind what you believe. Why are you so offended by my lack of belief? To me a religious text is a work of fiction in literature no more special than let's say Lord of the Rings.
Your posts come across as extremely bigotted against religious people. You also freely state as factual things that are not, in fact, factual. While claiming to be a believer in science. Anyways, what I've found is that highly religious people are 7-10 points lower, which would be 100% accounted for by them having a less rigorous education. Note highly religious people tend to teach their kids nothing but religion, and to be poorer (which also is associated with lower IQ) so I don't buy your assertion. Perhaps you can supply a study I haven't seen?
If you're asserting that people shouldn't take an allegorical text literally I agree. Jesus rarely spoke directly on things afterall, and was God. I don't like or agree with all religious people, even if I am one.
It used to be when I was young you could freely mock fat people, religion, and people who have lower than average IQs but aren't identified as disabled... now you have to be nicer to fat people, I guess thats progress.
I don't know what studies you've seen, but here for example is a wide meta-analysis
A meta-analysis of 63 studies showed a significant negative association between intelligence and religiosity. The association was stronger for college students and the general population than for participants younger than college age; it was also stronger for religious beliefs than religious behavior. For college students and the general population, means of weighted and unweighted correlations between intelligence and the strength of religious beliefs ranged from −.20 to −.25 (mean r = −.24). Three possible interpretations were discussed. First, intelligent people are less likely to conform and, thus, are more likely to resist religious dogma. Second, intelligent people tend to adopt an analytic (as opposed to intuitive) thinking style, which has been shown to undermine religious beliefs. Third, several functions of religiosity, including compensatory control, self-regulation, self-enhancement, and secure attachment, are also conferred by intelligence. Intelligent people may therefore have less need for religious beliefs and practices.
Yeah, it's a nice story. I appreciate the fiction. Of course, it's just one personal saviour god cult among many. You believe this because that's how you were raised. Were you Indian you would probably have a different religion.
So you believe that religion is something you are born with and not something you can choose ? i know people that have moved from one religion to another but humor me for a while do you believe that humans are born evil ? and if so isnt that an excuse for one's actions ?
Not at all. However, whatever religion you were indoctrinated into as a small child is overwhelmingly likely to be your religion as you grow up, should you stay religious.
being a sociopath or a psychopath is an abnormality in the brain but does not necessarily make you evil you can't feel compassion or the full range of emotions that other people feel but most sociopaths or psychopaths mimic the human emotions in order to fit in (even though they dont feel them)
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. And like that, poof. He's gone."
choice isnt only the actions that someone takes but also the ideas that they adopt meaning that a Christian can not be a fascist not doing evil but thinking evilly (like me) still makes you evil a true Christian (unlike me) is ashamed of making wicked thoughts cause he/she knows that god knows what he/she is thinking. bottom line clean ideas make clean people
Have you watched the movie "The Matrix (1999) ?" The movie was banned in Egypt because it "promotes zionism" cause it has characters named like "Neo" referring to the "New messiah" (god forbid) though i am gonna quote you some lines that i believe make some sense, i will not follow the dialogues in the order they are presented meaning that i will skip quite a few scenes.
Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere, it is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window, or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, or when go to church or when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. Neo: What truth? Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. Neo: What truth? Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
if the boy was holding a fork or a knife do you think the dialogue would be any different ?
I don't really understand where you're going with this.
I don't really understand where you're going with this.
ok lets just focus in the dialogue
Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere, it is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window, or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, or when go to church or when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. Neo: What truth? Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. Neo: What truth? Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
i was pondering for quite some time what the matrix is You see i used to be i guess i still am a computer technician a part from all the technical details a computer has two natures Hardware and Software metaphorically speaking i believe that computers are like humans hardware represents the human body and software represents... lets say the human psyche
The thing about software is that you cant touch it it has no physical body i mean you can touch the hard drive but not the actual software
its like a world of ideas that is based in a computer language or logic (since programming is logic) then i looked at the matrix dialogue and wondered what if we really live in a world of ideas where some ideas have materialized and thats what we can only see ? Morpheus pretty much says that matrix (matter) is everywhere (that we can see)
If i am not Correct please Correct me but the origins of the material world that we know derived from the spiritual world or world of ideas, since God is a spirit according to Genesis am i correct ?
Yes, basically you might say that part of Christianity is an adaptation of Plato's two world theory. Have a read on that if you're not familiar. If you want to challenge yourself, try reading about Nietzsche's criticism of true world philosophies.
@FinneousPJ "And what are you asking evidence for? I don't understand."
This right here from your previous post. "where there exists no evidence for it and loads of evidence against -- does. "
As for belligerance "Yeah, it's a nice story. I appreciate the fiction. Of course, it's just one personal saviour god cult among many. You believe this because that's how you were raised"
Basically "lol you're stupid and wrong because you think somethign different from me."
An all powerful deity fixing everything involves the loss of free will.
There is no such thing as free will. The present is already determined by past events, the future by the present. Thing is, we don't have the computing power to calculate all the variables of the universe at one time.
My car is the same car it was yesterday. It doesn't magically switch models overnight.
The sun rises in the east every day, because the earth rotates west to east. It doesn't suddenly stop rotating and then start turning east to west. Because of inertia.
I am what I am because of my genetics and my environmental exposure over 34 years. Social, educational, physical environments.
I don't magically pick up strep throat because God hates me. I pick it up because at some point in the last few days I came in contact with someone who had it. Or my immune system got a tad weak because of too much work and not enough sleep.
Anyways, what I've found is that highly religious people are 7-10 points lower, which would be 100% accounted for by them having a less rigorous education. Note highly religious people tend to teach their kids nothing but religion, and to be poorer (which also is associated with lower IQ)
So...maybe they should teach religion less, and teach more math and science and engineering?
So you believe that religion is something you are born with and not something you can choose ? i know people that have moved from one religion to another but humor me for a while do you believe that humans are born evil ?
How is one "born with" religion? It's indoctrinated into you. And no, we're not born evil. Nor are we born good. We aren't born with ANY thing. But from our birth, we pick up things consciously and subconsciously, each unique to our own individual place and conditions throughout life, and they collate together in our brains into a unique personality and outlook. This is plastic, we can change over time.
Again, I reiterate. There is no such thing as free will.
I am choosing to pursue a degree and career in accounting because I have reflected that I have, for many years, engaged in activities that would be useful in accounting such as spreadsheet data entry and analysis. And so far I am stomping hell in business courses. My extensive math course history doesn't hurt either. It didn't just pop into my head one day "BING! I R ACCOUNTANT!"
Nor can you just say "Well, God put the idea in your head you can be an accountant". Well, no, actually. My mother did, when I asked her whether I should pick between accounting or finance. She has an MBA, so she would have had courses in both, and so I felt she would have good advice. I'd have been fine with either. I actually probably would have even more fun with finance (probably make more money too), but I see the need for good accountants.
Then you'll say "Well, God made her say that you could be an accountant", and we keep going in circles.
Yes, basically you might say that part of Christianity is an adaptation of Plato's two world theory. Have a read on that if you're not familiar. If you want to challenge yourself, try reading about Nietzsche's criticism of true world philosophies.
I admire Plato for some reasons that i dont want to mention but i had no idea that Plato believed in a two world theory let alone that he wrote a book about it
@FinneousPJ "And what are you asking evidence for? I don't understand."
This right here from your previous post. "where there exists no evidence for it and loads of evidence against -- does. "
As for belligerance "Yeah, it's a nice story. I appreciate the fiction. Of course, it's just one personal saviour god cult among many. You believe this because that's how you were raised"
Basically "lol you're stupid and wrong because you think somethign different from me."
You're asking for evidence that the Genesis is not literally true? I'm going to pass on this one.
That's not what I mean at all. That's how you chose to read it. Here's the thing: I don't have any reverence for your religious text. That doesn't mean I think you're stupid. I do think you're wrong, though
@Quickblade So if i ask you do want me to shoot you in the head or not ? thats not free will ?
I really don't see how asking me to ask you to not shoot me is going to change things. You will, or you won't shoot me. If I feel it will affect your chance of shooting me, I will either say "please don't shoot me", or not if I feel that being silent has the better chance of you not shooting me.
@Quickblade Hey, if you choose to not believe free will, that is up to you.
@FinneousPJ "That's not what I mean at all. That's how you chose to read it. Here's the thing: I don't have any reverence for your religious text. That doesn't mean I think you're stupid. I do think you're wrong, though "
That's fine, but the language you chose to express yourself was insulting.
I agree that we are a result of the circumstances around us. The decisions, lawsuits, corporations making stuff for us to buy, etc there are a zillion decisions that go into everything. The amount of lead paint you are exposed to and all kinds of things might affect your decisions but I can't see how you can say you don't have free will.
If you wanted to you could go pour blue paint all over yourself and your room. That's free will, isn't it? There's a million societal factors that can limit your ability to express your free will but in the end if you're sitting there with the can of paint it's up to you what you do with it. Maybe you sit there everyday after work with a can of paint and nothing happens. Then on the 101st day of doing that you pour it. Why not?
@FinneousPJ after what you said about Plato and the two world theory i am afraid to continue this conversation cause i have more logical arguments to present regarding the existence of both God and devil and the human nature
The whole does God exist debate is nonsense it can be said for anything not real like gremlins, unicorns, ghosts and everything else under the sun what has no physical evidence to support it you can't say one is real while the other is not.
The whole does God exist debate is nonsense it can be said for anything not real like gremlins, unicorns, ghosts and everything else under the sun what has no physical evidence to support it you can't say one is real while the other is not.
@Wesboi the problem with theology is that it is based on faith while philosophy is based on reason
I have 100% belief in a little gremlin riding a beautiful unicorn what has the ability to fly around and poop out false ideologies across the whole world and every red moon it transcends one lucky believer to the promised land of ice cream and rainbows.
@Quickblade Hey, if you choose to not believe free will, that is up to you.
@FinneousPJ "That's not what I mean at all. That's how you chose to read it. Here's the thing: I don't have any reverence for your religious text. That doesn't mean I think you're stupid. I do think you're wrong, though "
That's fine, but the language you chose to express yourself was insulting.
Please accept my apologies, then. My disdain for religion is not directed at you or any person.
@dreamtraveler Let's not be afraid to exchange ideas. I may be snappy but I assure you I mean no harm.
i dont have to prove it to know that it is not something that i want to believe cause i have no use for it since your belief about what ever that was doest answer some of the questions that i have which one of them is where did i come from and before you say from my father and mother i will say where did my mother and father came from and so on till the beginning of humanity
philosophy (which literally mean friend of wisdom) is a journey towards truth
as i told you before Theology is based on faith while philosophy is based on reason the question is: what do you get if you apply philosophy on theology or what do you get if you apply reasoning in faith
When I caught the question floating across the bar I turned to the girl next to me and asked her if I was looking more like Hamlet or Falstaff today. She looked at me like I was crazy which was an improvement on her looking at me knowing I was dumb. Her opinion doesn't really matter anyway, the only person whose opinion matters these days is my bank manager's and that ain't changing. I couldn't really give an answer to the question, but I knew that really didn't matter. What mattered was the question, not the answer. No-one ever asks if life is a noir until they're too drunk to remember they asked it the following morning. No-one wants to think that maybe all the answers you can stack together don't satisfy, and have a bitter aftertaste, like one cheap whiskey too many. Hell, I don't ever want to ask myself that question, if I did I'd have something bigger than a shaving mirror in my room.
"i had the ideas most of you have what changed ? i was watching the movie "Book of Shadows: Blair Witch 2 (2000)" in my playstation 2 with a friend up until the scene where the party was around a fire then the camera was focusing as the fire paved the air then my right thump slipped into the pause button, i looked at my hand and i was trying to figure out how did my thump slipped then i looked at the tv and i saw the word "Seek" that pretty much creeped me out i had heard of subliminal messages but i didnt really believe it was true i was pondering at a different time intervals for six months why the word "Seek" and one day as i was walking out of a Cinema i watched the title of the movie that was currently playing the title was "Seek the Truth" and the movie was the Da Vinci Code. Then i said !@$% off i am not gonna watch that ##$%^ then i heard what that movie was about and pretty much here i am... "
it was he the same friend that told me he didnt know what to believe anymore... we had a first talk of about 2 hours and 30 minutes and some more talk i dont know lets say 2 more hours what happened was that which @Mantis37 said which also is the first problem
no mater if you are presented with the red pill or the blue pill and you are told that the red pill represents truth and knowledge and the blue pill represents ignorance and indifference still you are not ready. in the movie "The Matrix 1999" ( i am using zionist's ideas against them) Morpheus apologizes to Neo because he had passed a certain age limit of which they were allowed to unhook people (change peoples perspectives) I used reasoning with my friend and lead him from atheism to theism still my friend which he implied that he wanted to know the truth, he couldnt handle the truth, the moment he believed he got panicked and ended up rejecting what he had started to believe. so you see thats the first problem
the second problem is that the more you know the more God will ask of you (which means that if my reasoning and my beliefs are right i am fucked)
@Wesnoi Zionist's take pride that Darwinism is their creation... what do you make of that ?
Comments
Boy: *points a knife at Neo*
Neo: "Uh... what's with the knife?"
Boy: "Knife? What knife?" *hides knife* "There is no knife."
Boy: "You call that a knife?" *holds up a spoon* "THIS is a knife!"
Neo: "That's a spoon."
Boy: "All right, you win. Heh... I see you've played Knifey-Spoony before!"
nice humor though i do believe you are missing the point
I'm not being belligerent. I don't mind what you believe. Why are you so offended by my lack of belief? To me a religious text is a work of fiction in literature no more special than let's say Lord of the Rings. I don't know what studies you've seen, but here for example is a wide meta-analysis
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1088868313497266
Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere, it is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window, or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, or when go to church or when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
i was pondering for quite some time what the matrix is
You see i used to be i guess i still am a computer technician a part from all the technical details a computer has two natures Hardware and Software metaphorically speaking i believe that computers are like humans hardware represents the human body and software represents... lets say the human psyche
The thing about software is that you cant touch it it has no physical body i mean you can touch the hard drive but not the actual software
its like a world of ideas that is based in a computer language or logic (since programming is logic) then i looked at the matrix dialogue and wondered what if we really live in a world of ideas where some ideas have materialized and thats what we can only see ? Morpheus pretty much says that matrix (matter) is everywhere (that we can see)
If i am not Correct please Correct me but the origins of the material world that we know derived from the spiritual world or world of ideas, since God is a spirit according to Genesis am i correct ?
This right here from your previous post. "where there exists no evidence for it and loads of evidence against -- does. "
As for belligerance "Yeah, it's a nice story. I appreciate the fiction. Of course, it's just one personal saviour god cult among many. You believe this because that's how you were raised"
Basically "lol you're stupid and wrong because you think somethign different from me."
My car is the same car it was yesterday. It doesn't magically switch models overnight.
The sun rises in the east every day, because the earth rotates west to east. It doesn't suddenly stop rotating and then start turning east to west. Because of inertia.
I am what I am because of my genetics and my environmental exposure over 34 years. Social, educational, physical environments.
I don't magically pick up strep throat because God hates me. I pick it up because at some point in the last few days I came in contact with someone who had it. Or my immune system got a tad weak because of too much work and not enough sleep.
The present is built on the past. So...maybe they should teach religion less, and teach more math and science and engineering? How is one "born with" religion? It's indoctrinated into you. And no, we're not born evil. Nor are we born good. We aren't born with ANY thing. But from our birth, we pick up things consciously and subconsciously, each unique to our own individual place and conditions throughout life, and they collate together in our brains into a unique personality and outlook. This is plastic, we can change over time.
Again, I reiterate. There is no such thing as free will.
I am choosing to pursue a degree and career in accounting because I have reflected that I have, for many years, engaged in activities that would be useful in accounting such as spreadsheet data entry and analysis. And so far I am stomping hell in business courses. My extensive math course history doesn't hurt either. It didn't just pop into my head one day "BING! I R ACCOUNTANT!"
Nor can you just say "Well, God put the idea in your head you can be an accountant". Well, no, actually. My mother did, when I asked her whether I should pick between accounting or finance. She has an MBA, so she would have had courses in both, and so I felt she would have good advice. I'd have been fine with either. I actually probably would have even more fun with finance (probably make more money too), but I see the need for good accountants.
Then you'll say "Well, God made her say that you could be an accountant", and we keep going in circles.
now regarding Nietzsche i am gonna post a picture
That's not what I mean at all. That's how you chose to read it. Here's the thing: I don't have any reverence for your religious text. That doesn't mean I think you're stupid. I do think you're wrong, though
@FinneousPJ "That's not what I mean at all. That's how you chose to read it. Here's the thing: I don't have any reverence for your religious text. That doesn't mean I think you're stupid. I do think you're wrong, though "
That's fine, but the language you chose to express yourself was insulting.
If you wanted to you could go pour blue paint all over yourself and your room. That's free will, isn't it? There's a million societal factors that can limit your ability to express your free will but in the end if you're sitting there with the can of paint it's up to you what you do with it. Maybe you sit there everyday after work with a can of paint and nothing happens. Then on the 101st day of doing that you pour it. Why not?
Feel free to disprove my beliefs.
@dreamtraveler Let's not be afraid to exchange ideas. I may be snappy but I assure you I mean no harm.
@Wesboi I love the old skit in NtNoCN
i dont have to prove it to know that it is not something that i want to believe cause i have no use for it since your belief about what ever that was doest answer some of the questions that i have which one of them is where did i come from and before you say from my father and mother i will say where did my mother and father came from and so on till the beginning of humanity
philosophy (which literally mean friend of wisdom) is a journey towards truth
as i told you before Theology is based on faith while philosophy is based on reason
the question is:
what do you get if you apply philosophy on theology
or
what do you get if you apply reasoning in faith
You'll like this
i will quote myself for a moment
"i had the ideas most of you have what changed ? i was watching the movie "Book of Shadows: Blair Witch 2 (2000)" in my playstation 2 with a friend up until the scene where the party was around a fire then the camera was focusing as the fire paved the air then my right thump slipped into the pause button, i looked at my hand and i was trying to figure out how did my thump slipped then i looked at the tv and i saw the word "Seek" that pretty much creeped me out i had heard of subliminal messages but i didnt really believe it was true i was pondering at a different time intervals for six months why the word "Seek" and one day as i was walking out of a Cinema i watched the title of the movie that was currently playing the title was "Seek the Truth" and the movie was the Da Vinci Code. Then i said !@$% off i am not gonna watch that ##$%^ then i heard what that movie was about and pretty much here i am... "
it was he the same friend that told me he didnt know what to believe anymore... we had a first talk of about 2 hours and 30 minutes and some more talk i dont know lets say 2 more hours what happened was that which @Mantis37 said which also is the first problem
no mater if you are presented with the red pill or the blue pill and you are told that the red pill represents truth and knowledge and the blue pill represents ignorance and indifference still you are not ready.
in the movie "The Matrix 1999" ( i am using zionist's ideas against them) Morpheus apologizes to Neo because he had passed a certain age limit of which they were allowed to unhook people (change peoples perspectives)
I used reasoning with my friend and lead him from atheism to theism still my friend which he implied that he wanted to know the truth, he couldnt handle the truth, the moment he believed he got panicked and ended up rejecting what he had started to believe. so you see thats the first problem
the second problem is that the more you know the more God will ask of you (which means that if my reasoning and my beliefs are right i am fucked)
@Wesnoi Zionist's take pride that Darwinism is their creation... what do you make of that ?