Since my last play through of MotB I have become convinced that planescape: torment was its inspiration, and that MotBs evil side is a prequel to the nameless ones story. If you decide you're not going to take it
from Kelemvor anymore and go around eating all the spirits apparently you devour enough deities post-game for upper management to get all wrathful and shit so the spirit eater opens up a portal to go some place that deities can not follow which the game curiously does not mention by name.
@unavailable Naw. Can't be. MoTB takes place AFTER the NWN2 original campaign. In the NWN2 original campaign, Zhjaeve mentions that the story of how Dak'kon ceased to *know* himself at the fall of Shrak't'lor but then came to *know* himself again (through the unbroken circle sidequest in PS:T) is now one of the stories told among her people. This implies that NWN2 takes place after PS:T, especially considering she speaks of him as someone to look up to - before and during PS:T, other githzerai considered Dak'kon a pariah. If he redeemed himself in their eyes, it would have been after PS:T was over.
In addition, in PS:T, Dak'kon has the only Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon, because the Practical Incarnation MADE it for him. Before PS:T, the teachings of Zerthimon would have been followed by the githzerai but they would not be associated with the imagery of the Unbroken Circle. It would not have been incorporated into the githzerai culture as a symbol until after Dak'kon returned to his people following the events of PS:T. Zhjaeve has the symbol of the Unbroken Circle emblazoned on her cloak. This is yet another indication that the events of PS:T have already taken place.
tl;dr MotB takes place chronologically after the NWN2 OC, which in turn takes place chronologically after PS:T. Therefore, MotB cannot be a prequel to PS:T
You are right about one thing, though - MotB was almost certainly inspired by PS:T. In fact, I'd argue both the OC AND MotB are. The way the dialogue choices really matter, the colorful and interesting companions, the robust roleplaying possibilities, the little nods to PS:T sprinkled throughout the game, everything. Sure, NWN2 has a lot of glaring problems, and when the OC is concerned at least the plot itself leaves a lot to be desired, despite being VERY well written. But I do remember a very prominent thought I had in my head pretty much the ENTIRE TIME I was playing through NWN2 and MotB was "holy crap, this game plays so much like a love letter to Planescape:Torment."
Well, two things - that curiously not-mentioned-by-name place the Spirit Eater goes to IS almost certainly Sigil, as it's the only place that gods cannot enter. Possible jumping off point for an all new Planescape story, maybe? I mean it'll probably never happen, but if it ever did, I'd play it.
Y'all are forgetting that both PS:T and MotB where literally written by the same person, who also wrote a good chunk of the NWN2 OC, namely Chris Avellone.
He has a very recognisable writing style and even likes to connect his games through tiny elements, for example throughout the IWD games the player can meet other incarnations of Ravel Puzzlewell, and thought not canon, this connection goes all the way to KOTOR 2 (at least so I've read, I haven't yet played KOTOR [and please don't anybody tell me that I have/should play it, that is f***ing annoying]).
PS: Also I had no idea that Zhjaeve talks about Dak'kon, I guess I have to replay NWN2 some time soon >.>
@Ballad the suggestions in the thread seem to be very strongly focused on RPGs. Going for these though may just exacerbate the problem you seem to suggest in your original post that you find yourself starting another game and soon thinking you'd prefer to play BG.
How about experimenting with some totally different genres of games to see if that sparks a new interest: - burn some energy off with pinball - use a few spare minutes to play solitaire type games or puzzles or chess - indulge that 'just one more turn' feeling with Civilization or Heroes of Might & Magic - hit an adrenalin high with a racing game like Trackmania - take a drive on the wild side with Grand Theft Auto - get obsessed with detail in a flying simulator - make the world operate as it should with a city builder or one of the Tycoon games - become one of your sporting heroes in golf or soccer - etc etc
Or you could just carry on and enjoy the game you enjoy and not worry about it .
I'm a fairly good way into shadowrun: hong kong and I'm impressed. If you like turn based combat and lots of roleplaying I recommend it. Best way I can describe the setting is like a combination of final fantasy 7 and 8. Shadowrun is a futuristic cyberpunk word ruled by corporations, kind of like what you'd expect to see in a blade runner movie, except a whole bunch of magical creatures like elves, orks, trolls, dragons and all them winded up having to coexist with the rest of the humans after some catastrophe remove3d them from their fantasy reality or I don't really know. I'm not familiar with shadowrun lore, but I like shadowrun: hong kong
Undertale. Its an RPG with some of the best characters and a thought provoking story. It also plays unlike any RPG before it (to my knowledge). Its cheap and fairly short too.
I recently got into the Space Pilgrim series of RPGMaker games. If you can stomach the graphics (including default RPGMaker portraits), they're super fun little adventure games that last about an hour or two a piece. They're engaging and well-written, with interesting characters. Managed to keep me 100% interested the entire time. Excellent, cute little sci-fi story about a starship pilot who runs a ferry across space for travelers.
I can't belive only one guy mentions WITCHER series. Play all trilogy to get the whole stroy experience. If you like reading books, read them before playing Witcher 1 to have the Ultimate Experience. Witcher is definitly not the succesor of BG series - it's different RPG. But if you pack books + games it's better then anything before in story reasons.
IIRC nobody mentions Fallout:New Vegas - give it a try!
As few of you said - TYRANNY - unexpectedly good game.
PoE is also very good but remember to play it with all DLC. WM I and II made PoE lot better.
Having interesting companions along is a very high priority for me and meeting non-joining interesting characters as well.
POE seemed like luke warm milk in my first attempt.
Tyranny on the other hand, swept me right in and left me wanting more. The Disfavored, Scarlet Chorus and my first companion were all very interesting.
I'm going to give POE with WM 1 and 2 another try however - since, to be honest, there is not too much out there to fill the shoes of the Infinity Series.
I am really dexterity challenged due to nerve damage in my hands - so - although The Witcher looks great - that may be a reason some folks (like me) can't get into it (or any other action RPG)
@DonCzirr If you want something that doesn't clash with your motorical problems, branching out into other genres might be the way to go. Especially point and click adventures and round based strategy seem like good alternatives for you.
As far as P&C adventures are concerned, I can very much recommend basically anything from the 90s by LucasArts, specifically Monkey Island 1, 2 and 3, Sam & Max: Hit the Road, Day of the Tentacle and Full Throttle. Other than that there'd be Grim Fandango: Remastered, Tales Of Monkey Island, Simon The Sorcerer, the complete Deponia series, The Whispered World, The Dark Eye: Memoria and the complete Runaway series. Also especially in recent years there have been countless of indie games in that genre that I have only heard good things about (though I have not played any of those myself yet).
I am personally not into round based strategy, but I got a feeling that @Shandaxx may be able to give some recommendations for this genre
Undertale. Its an RPG with some of the best characters and a thought provoking story. It also plays unlike any RPG before it (to my knowledge). Its cheap and fairly short too.
I got it as a Christmas present. My brother kept pestering me to play it, and when I finally did, it was one of the best decisions of my life. The memories will stay with me forever.
Undertale. Its an RPG with some of the best characters and a thought provoking story. It also plays unlike any RPG before it (to my knowledge). Its cheap and fairly short too.
I got it as a Christmas present. My brother kept pestering me to play it, and when I finally did, it was one of the best decisions of my life. The memories will stay with me forever.
I don't get why so many people think Undertale is this life changing, but I will admit it was super cute and enjoyable and I would definitely play it again. I especially liked that you could go through the entire game without beating anything up. That made me very happy. My favorite character was the sad ghost. He was adorable and I liked getting to lie on the floor and contemplate nothingness with him. 10/10 would become one with the void again.
As for Undertale in general, I think it just depends on the person. For most people, it's just a fun and cute game with some good music. For a few people, it's a treasured memory and a source of deep thought. For a handful of people like me, it's a life changing spiritual experience. I've never played a game that felt so much like me.
When I was holding hands with Toriel, that's when I knew something about this game was very different from the others.
You said "round based strategy" without mentioning "Heroes of Might and Magic" in the same sentence! OH MY GAWD! That is almost a sacrilege!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Do NOT do it. Especially not anything past #2. It takes hours upon hours to play a single game, and the game is mindnumbingly devoid of tactics once you learned the basics AND each combat turn lasts longer than the worst of Final Fantasy turns.
Take kings bounty instead! No, not the new one. The old classic freeware one, thats like what HOM wants to be but cannot.
King's bounty you say? Hmm.. maybe I'll try it if it sells for a cheap coin.
Playing HoMM3 hotseat with my brother though, I don't think anything beats that. I think we manage to squeeze in a session about once every 15 years, but boy do that mean a lot. We always play in team and we sit and analyze every single attack/defense, calculating the number of enemies you can kill per strike, assessing who the enemy will attack etc, heh.. after 5 hours we have barely exited our first areas :P
Does anyone remember different round-based strategy, Disciples 2? You commanded parties rather than armies and combat was more rpg-like, with smaller focus on economy. Design in this game is superb - dark, gloomy, gothic.
King of Dragon pass is a fantastic and apparently not super well know strategy/rpg, kinda. Think of a fantasy village management sim, combined with character progression and with events presented in a visual novel style. The artwork is simply GORGEOUS and it just got a resolution update to make it scale better on modern systems. Its also got world exploration, heaps of lore, dragons, trolls, a warrior duck race ( crazy awesome), and dinosaurs that you can tame ride into battle. Seriously GOG has it on sale RIGHT NOW. It requires no twitch reflexes, and is a pretty unique experience.
@ Artona - totally Agree - I liked Disciples 2 a lot - one of the best "atmospheric" games to be published - I especially enjoyed the voice bits of the undead sorceress or whatever she was. I may pick that up again on GOG if they have it.
@ Buttercheese from above - I really do enjoy point and click games and played some of those you mentioned. Currently I am playing Stasis and Tormentum - both highly recommended.
But those don't fill the needs left by the Infinity Series games. For me, so far, only Tyranny is doing that. But as mentioned, I'm going to give POE another chance.
Another series I play around with (in the Sci Fi area) is ShadowRun - DragonFall and Hong Kong have very good plots and characters but the party development mechanics kinda suck. Given the quality of the atmosphere and hybrid Sci Fi / Fantasy turn based combat however, I can overlook the flaw.
@ ThacoBell - agree on KODP - I have it on the iPAD - it's a one of a kind type of game - that has a true epic feel to it.
Tinkering around again with Pillars .... to see if I can get into it.
Just got my first "Cleric" and it was like tasting some new recipe ....
I am looking at it and don't know if I like it or not.
Apparently the Divine folks don't have the classic Heal mechanics from Infinity Series - just endurance boosts - buffs / debuffs etc ....
Sampling this new fare, makes me think of the Infinity Engine like an old favorite dish ... consistent and tasty ... but eventually, might it get old and boring ?
Is it worth the effort to acquire a taste for POE. Tyranny etc ?
Comments
In addition, in PS:T, Dak'kon has the only Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon, because the Practical Incarnation MADE it for him. Before PS:T, the teachings of Zerthimon would have been followed by the githzerai but they would not be associated with the imagery of the Unbroken Circle. It would not have been incorporated into the githzerai culture as a symbol until after Dak'kon returned to his people following the events of PS:T. Zhjaeve has the symbol of the Unbroken Circle emblazoned on her cloak. This is yet another indication that the events of PS:T have already taken place.
tl;dr MotB takes place chronologically after the NWN2 OC, which in turn takes place chronologically after PS:T. Therefore, MotB cannot be a prequel to PS:T
You are right about one thing, though - MotB was almost certainly inspired by PS:T. In fact, I'd argue both the OC AND MotB are. The way the dialogue choices really matter, the colorful and interesting companions, the robust roleplaying possibilities, the little nods to PS:T sprinkled throughout the game, everything. Sure, NWN2 has a lot of glaring problems, and when the OC is concerned at least the plot itself leaves a lot to be desired, despite being VERY well written. But I do remember a very prominent thought I had in my head pretty much the ENTIRE TIME I was playing through NWN2 and MotB was "holy crap, this game plays so much like a love letter to Planescape:Torment."
He has a very recognisable writing style and even likes to connect his games through tiny elements, for example throughout the IWD games the player can meet other incarnations of Ravel Puzzlewell, and thought not canon, this connection goes all the way to KOTOR 2 (at least so I've read, I haven't yet played KOTOR [and please don't anybody tell me that I have/should play it, that is f***ing annoying]).
PS: Also I had no idea that Zhjaeve talks about Dak'kon, I guess I have to replay NWN2 some time soon >.>
How about experimenting with some totally different genres of games to see if that sparks a new interest:
- burn some energy off with pinball
- use a few spare minutes to play solitaire type games or puzzles or chess
- indulge that 'just one more turn' feeling with Civilization or Heroes of Might & Magic
- hit an adrenalin high with a racing game like Trackmania
- take a drive on the wild side with Grand Theft Auto
- get obsessed with detail in a flying simulator
- make the world operate as it should with a city builder or one of the Tycoon games
- become one of your sporting heroes in golf or soccer
- etc etc
Or you could just carry on and enjoy the game you enjoy and not worry about it
IIRC nobody mentions Fallout:New Vegas - give it a try!
As few of you said - TYRANNY - unexpectedly good game.
PoE is also very good but remember to play it with all DLC. WM I and II made PoE lot better.
But really WITCHER is the must!
Having interesting companions along is a very high priority for me and meeting non-joining interesting characters as well.
POE seemed like luke warm milk in my first attempt.
Tyranny on the other hand, swept me right in and left me wanting more. The Disfavored, Scarlet Chorus and my first companion were all very interesting.
I'm going to give POE with WM 1 and 2 another try however - since, to be honest, there is not too much out there to fill the shoes of the Infinity Series.
I am really dexterity challenged due to nerve damage in my hands - so - although The Witcher looks great - that may be a reason some folks (like me) can't get into it (or any other action RPG)
As far as P&C adventures are concerned, I can very much recommend basically anything from the 90s by LucasArts, specifically Monkey Island 1, 2 and 3, Sam & Max: Hit the Road, Day of the Tentacle and Full Throttle. Other than that there'd be Grim Fandango: Remastered, Tales Of Monkey Island, Simon The Sorcerer, the complete Deponia series, The Whispered World, The Dark Eye: Memoria and the complete Runaway series. Also especially in recent years there have been countless of indie games in that genre that I have only heard good things about (though I have not played any of those myself yet).
I am personally not into round based strategy, but I got a feeling that @Shandaxx may be able to give some recommendations for this genre
by ichimoral on deviantart
by yuten11 on deviantart
As for Undertale in general, I think it just depends on the person. For most people, it's just a fun and cute game with some good music. For a few people, it's a treasured memory and a source of deep thought. For a handful of people like me, it's a life changing spiritual experience. I've never played a game that felt so much like me.
When I was holding hands with Toriel, that's when I knew something about this game was very different from the others.
Take kings bounty instead! No, not the new one. The old classic freeware one, thats like what HOM wants to be but cannot.
Playing HoMM3 hotseat with my brother though, I don't think anything beats that. I think we manage to squeeze in a session about once every 15 years, but boy do that mean a lot. We always play in team and we sit and analyze every single attack/defense, calculating the number of enemies you can kill per strike, assessing who the enemy will attack etc, heh.. after 5 hours we have barely exited our first areas :P
@ Buttercheese from above - I really do enjoy point and click games and played some of those you mentioned. Currently I am playing Stasis and Tormentum - both highly recommended.
But those don't fill the needs left by the Infinity Series games. For me, so far, only Tyranny is doing that. But as mentioned, I'm going to give POE another chance.
Another series I play around with (in the Sci Fi area) is ShadowRun - DragonFall and Hong Kong have very good plots and characters but the party development mechanics kinda suck. Given the quality of the atmosphere and hybrid Sci Fi / Fantasy turn based combat however, I can overlook the flaw.
@ ThacoBell - agree on KODP - I have it on the iPAD - it's a one of a kind type of game - that has a true epic feel to it.
Well except one line, one that I missed and really never saw myself while I was playing, but found out about later from LPs and stuff:
"Despite everything, it's still you."
I think about that line a lot.
Warlock of Firetop Mountain
Hand of Fate
Deus Ex: Revision
Just got my first "Cleric" and it was like tasting some new recipe ....
I am looking at it and don't know if I like it or not.
Apparently the Divine folks don't have the classic Heal mechanics from Infinity Series - just endurance boosts - buffs / debuffs etc ....
Sampling this new fare, makes me think of the Infinity Engine like an old favorite dish ... consistent and tasty ... but eventually, might it get old and boring ?
Is it worth the effort to acquire a taste for POE. Tyranny etc ?
Time will tell ...