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The big "Is it a bug or supposed to be like this?" thread

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  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 1,949

    About CreateCreatureOffscreen - yeah, we should use that sparsely, if at all. It has a huge quest breaking potential

    Yay, that's the exact response I was hoping for! Does that mean that we should expect reversions to the BG2:EE scripts that spawn important NPCs with CreateCreatureOffscreen before the 2.5 release?

    ThacoBell
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,741
    No promises, but the work is being done towards that, @Adul, yes.

    AdulThacoBell
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 1,949
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,135
    Sunfire once again bypasses Magic Resistance.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,741
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,135

    @kjeron Which game is that?

    All of them.
    BGEE was the only one that actually had it fixed at one point (v2.3).
    But the fix didn't spread to the others and has now been reverted in BGEE.
    All latest patches according to Beamdog Client: BGEE(v2.5.15.1), BG2EE(v2.5.16.4), IWDEE(v2.5.16.3)

    JuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,741
    Can you please report it ASAP?

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,135

    Can you please report it ASAP?

    Sorry, RL intervened, but they are reported now.

    JuliusBorisov
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,135
    edited June 2018

    It's a code issue caused by when spells have their targettype set to "self" in the extended header that MR will be ignored even if the effects are set to be blocked by MR. Until the code issue is fixed in the long term, we are shell-spelling Sunfire for this patch. That means the base/parent spell will cast another "-D" spell which will have the actual projectile and effects.

    Sunfire has been shell-spelled before due to other issues in the past, but introduced a couple other issues (i.e. casting being damaged if cast during time stop). I've un-shell-spelled it which seemed to activate this mr issue, so we're shell-spelling it back but with those other issues fixed.

    I know, it's had a rough life.
    - The old self-immunity could expire before the effects actually hit the caster. (Time Stop)
    - The old self-immunity could allow multiple mages to cast it at the same time and be immune to each other's.
    - Self-targeted spells bypass MR. (a troubling issue for any AoE spell since scripts, contingencies, and sequencers* can't effectively target a "point" or location).

    I only reported it separately for each game because the current "fix" so far hasn't been engine related, even if the issue is.

    Is there any specific reason it has always used projectile 38(Fireball), instead of using projectile 211(Fireball Ignore-Center) to fix the not-affect-caster issue? It's always felt like the obvious choice - is there another issue using this projectile causes?


    * Some sequencers can target a point/location, but they can also be easily manipulated not to.

    JuliusBorisovRaduziel
  • RewtieRewtie Member Posts: 3
    Did some monsters get their AC lowered on Legacy of Bhaal mode in v. 2.5?
    It seems like for instance mephits, the rakshasa in temple sewers are harder to hit. Also, in my last game, Cernd was beaten by Faldorn in Druid's Grove. I've never seen that happen before.

  • c4_angelc4_angel Member Posts: 35
    Monks can equip weapon on off-hand, and also get benifit from those equip-effects on the off-hand weapon, e.q. equip the Beim and get +1 APR.
    A bug IMO.

  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,395
    Rewtie said:

    Did some monsters get their AC lowered on Legacy of Bhaal mode in v. 2.5?
    It seems like for instance mephits, the rakshasa in temple sewers are harder to hit. Also, in my last game, Cernd was beaten by Faldorn in Druid's Grove. I've never seen that happen before.

    @Abel noted over yonder that we missed inclusion of the AC bonuses for HoF/LoB mode. These are implemented for 2.5.

    JuliusBorisovAbel
  • RewtieRewtie Member Posts: 3
    Interesting. Are enemies on LoB supposed to recieve the same bonuses as in HoF? Listed here.

    Except the hp and xp bonuses I guess?

  • rede9rede9 Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 1,815
    edited July 2018
    2.5 GOG installed.

    When I start, Imoen casts immediately Stoneskin and Armor. Is that annoying?
    Should I suggest to start the game with IA off?

    lefreutAdul
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,741
    rede9 said:

    2.5 GOG installed.

    When I start, Imoen casts immediately Stoneskin and Armor. Is that annoying?
    Should I suggest to start the game with IA off?

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/48531/feedback-advanced-ai-and-multiple-healers-in-the-party

  • rede9rede9 Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 1,815

    After the initial dialogue in BG2, Imoen automatically casted Stoneskin before I could click anything. Maybe it's not a big deal, but for me it meant that an NPC automatically used one of their spells when I didn't even think about it.

    I don't think it should be like that. The Advanced AI is a titanical work (thanks, @AlexT and everyone else) and it's great but maybe we should have a chance to choose whether we have it on NPCs first, so that it doesn't feel as if the game does something about your party automatically before you even have a chance to think about it.

    Did you open a ticket for that?

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,036
    this is due to the ai added by 2.0. it did not bother me at first until i notice they were getting fatigued alot faster then normal.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,741
    rede9 said:

    Did you open a ticket for that?

    No, as the general consensus in that thread was that it was alright.

    this is due to the ai added by 2.0. it did not bother me at first until i notice they were getting fatigued alot faster then normal.

    I think there was a bug with fatigue not triggering properly in all cases before.

  • rede9rede9 Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 1,815

    rede9 said:

    Did you open a ticket for that?

    No, as the general consensus in that thread was that it was alright.
    Does it not confuse new players to start with IA ON?

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,295
    It's more conventional nowadays to have ai on by default

    it should remain on by default but imoen should still not cast the spell until the party starts exiting the first room, in order not to ruin the suspense and immersion of the first few moments of the game by drawing the players' attention from the story to "what just happened" (what if it's a new player who has yet to learn about spells?)

    ProontLoldrup
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 1,949
    edited July 2018
    I agree that AI should be on by default, but I do not agree that characters should cast spells or use items by default. I have two arguments to support that position:

    1) For new players, it is important to learn and understand how spells are memorized, and how they're used up during spell casting. If the game immediately teaches that their characters auto-cast spells, that encourages players not to worry about learning these mechanics, because they may rightly be under the impression that the game takes care of it on its own. But that is not the case. The game will cast some spells with the spell casting AI option on, but it will not do the same for all spells. It also will not auto-learn spells from scrolls, auto-memorize spells on level up, or auto-rest when the party is out of memorized spells. Players should be encouraged to take an active part in these mechanics from an early stage because they will need to have a solid understanding of them later on.

    2) For veteran/experienced players, it may be irritating that right at the start of the game party members essentially "waste" spells that the player would have wanted to hold on to for later.

    ThacoBellProontlroumenRavenslight
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,918
    While you have valid points, which spells are really cast upon joining?
    I have only seen it happen with stoneskin which lasts 8 hours (?) and is something you don't want to save for later.

  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 1,949
    @lroumen Don't party members also auto-cast Armor-type spells? I can't recall, as I always disable that AI setting as fast as I'm able.

    But regardless, I don't want them to auto-cast any spell by default, not even Stoneskin, as there are strategic uses for almost any spell. You can, for example, save that Stoneskin for a later fight and let Imoen help tank some of the more hard-hitting foes you would encounter in the dungeon, like the two golems that come attacking you when you sound the alarm.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,039
    @Iroumen The basic armor spell gets autocast, which lasts about 8 hours. I've also seen mirror image (THAT one is annoying, as it can be quite a short duration and wasted at lower levels).

    @Adul Stoneskin lasts for 12 hours. You can literally rest, still have it active, and have a backup ready to go. What are you doing with Imoen that a twelve hour spell is running out before battle?

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,918
    Yes, mirror image I can understand but spells lasting over 8 hours should be fine.
    I guess if you don't like Ai, you want to toggle it in the game settings too?

    Raduziel
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 1,949
    The duration of the spell is typically not the issue with Stoneskin (though it can be if you travel long distances, for example), rather it's the number of hits it absorbs. E.g. it can run out before you reach the golem battle if Imoen gets hit a couple of times by goblins.

  • AbelAbel Member Posts: 740
    CamDawg said:

    Rewtie said:

    Did some monsters get their AC lowered on Legacy of Bhaal mode in v. 2.5?
    It seems like for instance mephits, the rakshasa in temple sewers are harder to hit. Also, in my last game, Cernd was beaten by Faldorn in Druid's Grove. I've never seen that happen before.

    @Abel noted over yonder that we missed inclusion of the AC bonuses for HoF/LoB mode. These are implemented for 2.5.
    Haha, I never thought I'd see the day! But what's a few years? Nothing when you have hope!
    Some people are going to be surprised with their 2.5 HoF game!

    Loldrup
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