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David Gaider on representation in games

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  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    :|
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736


    What i mean is sex-scenes in movies, tv series, magazines and other media and i say that because you can't understand love unless you experience it "Love is supposed to dignify us! Exalt us! How can it be love, John if all it does make you lonely and corrupt?" -- Luther 2010 Episode 1

    It kinda works in JRPGs/VNs, compared to WRPGs.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    "It's something you're born with and there isn't much to be done about that."

    Sexuality doesn't really develop in people until closer to puberty. Babies don't come out of the "gate" with a preference one way or the other. I am NOT making any kind of qualifying statements for or against homosexuality, just stating that biologically we don't develop sexually immediately.
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108


    Sexuality is a human thing and you can't avoid portraying it in anything unless no one ever has a significant other of any gender. No married couples, no boyfriends and girlfriends, no girlfriends and girlfriends, no byfriends and boyfriends. No flings. No one night stands. No dating. No children*, no weddings.

    If you carve out sexuality, which you seem to be arguing, what's left?

    More to the point, why do you think sexuality shouldn't be promoted?

    * Children have parents

    What i mean is sex-scenes in movies, tv series, magazines and other media and i say that because you can't understand love unless you experience it "Love is supposed to dignify us! Exalt us! How can it be love, John if all it does make you lonely and corrupt?" -- Luther 2010 Episode 1
    Artona said:


    I never understood what people exactly mean when they talk about "promotion of homosexuality". It's not a product you can acquire, it's not even a life-style you can take. It's something you're born with and there isn't much to be done about that.

    I disagree to that and you'll ask me why and i'll say some things are matter of faith and let's just leave it at that.


    Nah. I'm lesbian, and @Artona is correct. Your faith doesn't change facts. Attempts to change it don't really work, and reparative therapy is junk science.

    I disagree about sex scenes in media as well. I don't see how that connects to your statement about understanding love, but I disagree with that statement as well. Or rather with the implications.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    I don't think it's 'easily' changed regardless of what the cause is. Religion makes its judgments based on centuries old data that is subject to revisions based on reality. My opinion anyway.

    That doesn't mean I'm not subject to prejudices due to my religious upbringing but I'm open-minded enough to realize I'm probably biased. One of the reasons I know of my own bias is the aforementioned revulsion to same sex relations only when it involves my own gender (male). If it was only religion I'd be equally repulsed by Lesbian relationships as gay male relationships and alas, I am not. It's really weird being a scientist...
  • dreamtravelerdreamtraveler Member Posts: 377
    Democracy = Freedom
    But here is the tricky thing about Freedom if you abuse freedom you become a slave to your passions.


    Sexuality is a human thing and you can't avoid portraying it in anything unless no one ever has a significant other of any gender. No married couples, no boyfriends and girlfriends, no girlfriends and girlfriends, no byfriends and boyfriends. No flings. No one night stands. No dating. No children*, no weddings.

    If you carve out sexuality, which you seem to be arguing, what's left?

    More to the point, why do you think sexuality shouldn't be promoted?

    * Children have parents

    What i mean is sex-scenes in movies, tv series, magazines and other media and i say that because you can't understand love unless you experience it "Love is supposed to dignify us! Exalt us! How can it be love, John if all it does make you lonely and corrupt?" -- Luther 2010 Episode 1
    Artona said:


    I never understood what people exactly mean when they talk about "promotion of homosexuality". It's not a product you can acquire, it's not even a life-style you can take. It's something you're born with and there isn't much to be done about that.

    I disagree to that and you'll ask me why and i'll say some things are matter of faith and let's just leave it at that.

    Nah. I'm lesbian, and @Artona is correct. Your faith doesn't change facts. Attempts to change it don't really work, and reparative therapy is junk science.
    Faith alone doesnt but it really changes the odds in your favor for "Divine intervention" basicly a good christian is a grown up child and in order to achieve that you can't do it alone and you cant do it if you are in the wrong place but that's a whole different subject.


    I disagree about sex scenes in media as well. I don't see how that connects to your statement about understanding love, but I disagree with that statement as well. Or rather with the implications.

    Nymphomaniac: Part 1
    User Reviews
    "The film overall made me feel dirty, and unclean."
  • dreamtravelerdreamtraveler Member Posts: 377
    edited December 2017
    As much as i admire Socrates i dont agree with on of his methods.
    Using Irony to make the subject see things your way and now days due to "Luciferian Ego" that method has the opposite effect of what was intended.
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,077
    @ThacoBell - while it's true that people discover their sexuality during puberty, it doesn't mean that it's not a thing we can be born with (link: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/genomewide-scan-demonstrates-significant-linkage-for-male-sexual-orientation/864518601436C95563EA670C5F380343).
    But really, wheter it is inborn or developed during growing up - it's a secondary matter, as long as we do not treat it as some kind of "moral choice", and especially an immoral one.

    @dreamtraveler - I wouldn't say that democracy = freedom, especially talking about western liberal democracies that have many mechanisms limiting freedom to ensure human and civil liberties and laws. In Poland it's illegal to pay below minimum wage, for example, and it's surely limitation over my freedom.
    But I'm not really sure what you are trying to say.

    @Shandaxx - that's certainly some way to see this character and I can only be glad that it was something empowering to you. ;)
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @Artona "But really, wheter it is inborn or developed during growing up - it's a secondary matter"

    Agreed, I wasn't making a value or moral judgement, simply one of biological mechanics. I am curious what the ages were of those studied. As the human brain is still developing going into adulthood.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Personally I do differentiate between sexual and romantic, and sexual orientation requires both. But this could very easily devolve into semantics and I'll stop here unless someone really wants to continue.
  • dreamtravelerdreamtraveler Member Posts: 377
    edited December 2017
    Artona said:



    @dreamtraveler - I wouldn't say that democracy = freedom, especially talking about western liberal democracies that have many mechanisms limiting freedom to ensure human and civil liberties and laws. In Poland it's illegal to pay below minimum wage, for example, and it's surely limitation over my freedom.
    But I'm not really sure what you are trying to say.

    What we have now is not democracy.

    "This is the Greek law in force in the 5th century BC. century, which was the Golden Age of the Athenian Republic. The laws were of Solon and they predicted that if a citizen wanted to be an assemblyman.

    The Law required the following:

    1) Be an Athenian citizen.

    2) Possess the Greek religion and education (same blood, same ways, same religion)

    3) DO NOT be a homosexual, and

    4) Record ALL his property, up to the sandals he wore, and his family property.

    If all these requirements were met, then he could become an assembly man.


    The laws that were introduced to the Church of the Municipality for voting were nominal, that is, they had the name of the proposer. The one who proposed a law had to be very careful.

    Not only have he considered whether there was another, an earlier law that regulated the subject in a different way (so he had to say it), but he was also RESPONSIBLE for the results of the proposed.

    Thus, if he proposed and passed a law that proved to be financially damaging to Athens, then all the amount in which Athens had been financially damaged had to be confiscated from his registered property.

    If not all of his property was reached - and even his sandals, which were recorded - then the outstanding balance was obliged to repay it BY WORKING IN PUBLIC PROJECTS.

    If the law, which it proposed and voted, was ethically damaging to Athens, the sentence was: Immediate death like the same day."
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,077
    edited December 2017
    As much as I would enjoy discussing democracy and its values, I think we should not stray from subject of the thread.
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108



    Faith alone doesnt but it really changes the odds in your favor for "Divine intervention" basicly a good christian is a grown up child and in order to achieve that you can't do it alone and you cant do it if you are in the wrong place but that's a whole different subject.

    What I mean is that your faith doesn't change my life experiences. You can have faith in anything, but that doesn't mean your faith leads you to a factually correct conclusion.
  • dreamtravelerdreamtraveler Member Posts: 377



    Faith alone doesnt but it really changes the odds in your favor for "Divine intervention" basicly a good christian is a grown up child and in order to achieve that you can't do it alone and you cant do it if you are in the wrong place but that's a whole different subject.

    What I mean is that your faith doesn't change my life experiences. You can have faith in anything, but that doesn't mean your faith leads you to a factually correct conclusion.
    It depends do you believe that God is right or wrong ?
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    This discussion has become really odd
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    edited December 2017



    Faith alone doesnt but it really changes the odds in your favor for "Divine intervention" basicly a good christian is a grown up child and in order to achieve that you can't do it alone and you cant do it if you are in the wrong place but that's a whole different subject.

    What I mean is that your faith doesn't change my life experiences. You can have faith in anything, but that doesn't mean your faith leads you to a factually correct conclusion.
    It depends do you believe that God is right or wrong ?
    How does that have any relevance to my lived experiences? I don't need my experiences filtered through a divine being to know whether they're real or not, and you can't intuit my experiences based on dogma promoted by your religion.

    Also, Christianity has different stances on same sex attraction depending upon whom you ask. How do you determine which is the "true word of god" and which is apostasy? I know of Christians who support LGBT people, who support same sex marriage, who believe LGBT people when we say "this is how we're constituted." So there's no singular "God is right or wrong" here. I'm definitely not going to get spiritual advice from people who hate me for existing, and I'm not inclined to believe what they have to say about me. When people tell you things that aren't true about yourself, that's a form of abuse, often called gaslighting.

    Also, I'm not a Christian.
  • GodGod Member Posts: 1,150
    CamDawg said:

    It depends do you believe that God is right or wrong ?

    Let's ask him. @God ?

    When doctors differ who decides amid the milliard-headed throng?
    Who save the madman dares to cry: "'Tis I am right, you all are wrong"?
    "You all are right, you all are wrong," we hear the careless Soofi say,
    "For each believes his glimm'ering lamp to be the gorgeous light of day."
    "Thy faith why false, my faith why true? 'tis all the work of Thine and Mine,
    "The fond and foolish love of self that makes the Mine excel the Thine."
    Cease then to mumble rotten bones; and strive to clothe with flesh and blood
    The skel'eton; and to shape a Form that all shall hail as fair and good.

    - Hâjî Abdû El-Yezdî
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    I dunno, Alistair is perty gay hö hö hö
  • dreamtravelerdreamtraveler Member Posts: 377
    Everyone has an opinion and so does God.


    How does that have any relevance to my lived experiences? I don't need my experiences filtered through a divine being to know whether they're real or not, and you can't intuit my experiences based on dogma promoted by your religion.

    I am sensing a bit of hostility there ?
    Christianity is not just faith it is also logic and i do dear to say it is also a philosophy of the highest degree.


    Also, Christianity has different stances on same sex attraction depending upon whom you ask. How do you determine which is the "true word of god" and which is apostasy? I know of Christians who support LGBT people, who support same sex marriage, who believe LGBT people when we say "this is how we're constituted." So there's no singular "God is right or wrong" here. I'm definitely not going to get spiritual advice from people who hate me for existing, and I'm not inclined to believe what they have to say about me. When people tell you things that aren't true about yourself, that's a form of abuse, often called gaslighting.

    Also, I'm not a Christian.

    I will simply say study the Great schism.

    Truly very very few people are evil, only the ones that know their self thus knowing God's character and choose to go to the opposite direction.
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,077
    I stumbled upon article that seems to be relevant to the topic: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42357678

    What do you think? :)
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861

    Again, everyone: this topic is called "David Gaider on representation in games" and started as discussion of David's interview. This topic is not about religion or faith - feel free to discuss those in another thread, please.

    Except - religious oppression (mostly) and inspiration (sometimes) defines the human condition, so to remove religion is to remove BG, DA, or NWN from narrative complexity, more than I think is quite fair.

    To say Dragon Age did not ride either the inspiring or oppressing wave of organised religion is almost to say "Pietà" has nothing to with Jesus.


    Opinions expressed around religion are quite ugly - oftentimes, sometimes - but to think David Gaider & co, never saw the narrative truth in all that would be sad.
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    edited December 2017
    Artona said:

    I stumbled upon article that seems to be relevant to the topic: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42357678

    What do you think? :)

    I know what I think - but what about you?


    - and u JB (@juliusborisov), and u Balrog (@balrog99) and u dunbar (@dunbar)? You thought? Or just liked?
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,077
    edited December 2017
    @TStael
    I know what I think - but what about you?


    I could answer in the same way.

    But I won't do that. I think that I'm not sure what to think about it.
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    @TStael what I liked about the article was that it gave someone who knows next to nothing about the video game industry (me) different perspectives on the topic under discussion from people who work in that industry.
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