Do you believe in the wisdom of the crowd?

dreamtraveler

Before you answer think about what you (might) & other people voted for

semiticgoddess

There's a saying in Chinese, 三个臭皮匠，赛过诸葛亮, which means "three dirty cobblers make up a Zhuge Liang," Zhuge Liang being a famously clever Chinese tactician.

dreamtraveler

indeed sayings can show some wisdom

Balrog99

Crowds are notoriously dumb...

dreamtraveler

@Balrog99 there is a difference between intelligence and wisdom but do you believe that the previous generations were more intelligent than today ? (try to forget about iphone mania and other...anyway... )

dreamtraveler

do correct me if i am wrong i believe that intelligent people tend to win the short game while wise people win the long game

Balrog99

dreamtraveler said:

@Balrog99 there is a difference between intelligence and wisdom but do you believe that the previous generations were more intelligent than today ? (try to forget about iphone mania and other...anyway... )

Crowds were ecstatic at Hitler's rallies. They were likewise at Trump's rallies. Women were fainting at Obama's rallies. I've been to huge religious gatherings, large Amway rallies, rock concerts, sporting events and big business meetings sponsored by my company. In all of those events I've never seen anything resembling wisdom being displayed. Just group think. Crowds are neither intelligent or wise in my opinion.

Earlier generations were possibly more intelligent in their language skills and knowledge of history but only in the middle and upper classes. I definitely don't think they were more wise (WW1, WW2, slavery, superstition, the Crusades, slaughtering native Americans, colonialism, etc...).

dreamtraveler

Balrog99 said:

dreamtraveler said:

@Balrog99 there is a difference between intelligence and wisdom but do you believe that the previous generations were more intelligent than today ? (try to forget about iphone mania and other...anyway... )

Crowds were ecstatic at Hitler's rallies. They were likewise at Trump's rallies.

I do get your point.

Balrog99

dreamtraveler said:

Balrog99 said:

dreamtraveler said:

@Balrog99 there is a difference between intelligence and wisdom but do you believe that the previous generations were more intelligent than today ? (try to forget about iphone mania and other...anyway... )

Crowds were ecstatic at Hitler's rallies. They were likewise at Trump's rallies.

Well personally i don't hold those people responsible cause they were hopeless after WW1 but i do get your point.

I didn't say they were responsible, just that they were neither intelligent or wise while in 'crowd' mode.

dreamtraveler

@Balrog99 oh yes sorry about that... will edit it

joluv

Hot take alert:

I do hold Nazis responsible.

Balrog99

joluv said:

Hot take alert:

I do hold Nazis responsible.

Nazi party members weren't the only ones Heil Hitlering at those rallies. There weren't enough actual party members for them to take control. Hitler was a master at crowd control and used it to perfection to weasel his way to power!

jjstraka34

Balrog99 said:

joluv said:

Hot take alert:

I do hold Nazis responsible.

Nazi party members weren't the only ones Heil Hitlering at those rallies. There weren't enough actual party members for them to take control. Hitler was a master at crowd control and used it to perfection to weasel his way to power!

I don't speak German, but it's clear to me watching his speeches he has been trained in theater performance. In retrospect, I think he only seems like hypnotic speaker because of what we now know happened, and because the film reel seems ancient at this point. What he was actually saying was hot garbage, and no one who went along with him gets a pass because he was entertaining. He sounds far more important without the sub-titles. When you read along, he's just a buffoon with horrible ideas. I wonder if things would have gotten as far without Goebbels and Leni Riefenstahl coordinating, disseminating and filming the message. Trump doesn't resemble Hitler when he talks, he resembles Mussolini. To a tee actually. Brutish thuggery. Play a clip of Trump strutting back and forth across the stage at the Republican Convention during an applause break, then play a clip of Mussolini speaking from a balcony, and tell me they aren't practically doing the same thing.

Skatan

Group psychology is very interesting. My experience of it though is that in a group, individuals become increasingly 'stupid' in a sense that we humans move back into a more primal state where everyone is equal. There's always specks of intelligence in the ocean of diarrhea that is a mob, but in the end mob mentality will devour anything and everything and becomes an entity of its own.

So, no. I think groups of ppl can only be more wise than individuals if they are small groups and led by someone wise enough to steer them into the right direction. If left uncontrolled, groups becomes mobs.

There's an old saying that goes along the lines of "judge a man's character not by what he does in public, but what he does when noone sees it" or similar. I like that thinking, cause when ppl join mobs and think that it's ok to behave like a brute because "everyone else is doing it" you get the situation that so often occur at rallies or demonstrations where ppls start to fight, loot and plunder because they think they can get away with it. It's human group psychology and almost unavoidable.

Same with environmental observations, as a group everyone in the (at least) western world knows that we are messing up the climate, but do we as a group do anything about it? Shouldn't the collective wisdom, had it existed, made us move towards a more climate controlled way of living? No, what you constantly see is the group being governed by mob mentality where we are dragged down to the least common denominator instead of rising up to the highest peak. It takes strength from those few wise individuals to guide the masses into something new, into something better. If it were up to the crowd, we would never reach it. Look at USA now, how they as a country are going backwards again regarding climate control. They are not unique, but it's pretty apparent there and a good example.

PaulaMigrate

With crowds it seems that the what you get as intelligence is far less than the sum of its parts. It rather looks like crowd intelligence is defined by the lowest common denominator - which in a large crowd may be very close to zero.
Then what's left is instinct. Crowds act like an animal reduced to its basic instincts.

Grond0

I'm not quite sure of the premise for the question, so decided that the yes vote needed a little love . I would go along with the idea that a crowd at, say, a pop concert is not likely to display great wisdom. However, that's not the only sense in which 'crowd' can be used. Who among us for instance thinks that crowd funding should be banned because of its stupidity? And to take one of my pet topics who believes that it's wrong to go along with the crowd on something like climate change - as opposed to objecting to it specifically on the grounds that the vast majority of experts believe in it?

Edit: I see @Skatan already referred to the climate change example, so should have chosen something else - oh well, just think of us as forming a very small crowd ...

Skatan

Grond0 said:

Edit: I see @Skatan already referred to the climate change example, so should have chosen something else - oh well, just think of us as forming a very small crowd ...

Feel.. a mob.. being created.. brain levels.. det.. det.. eri.. o.. rating.. Can no.. lon..ger.. pronounce.. long words. GAARH EAT BRAINS! LOOT!! PLUNDER!!

Nimran

I don’t mind if the crowds are with me, but I never seek their approval. Same with anything else in life. I’m hopelessly apathetic to everything.

Balrog99

Wait a minute, now that I'm in the majority I suddenly feel the urge to change my vote to 'yes'. Give me a minute while the Irish in me comes up with the arguments to back up my new statement that 'Crowds are Genius Incarnate'...

Rik_Kirtaniya

"Wisdom is possessed only by the learned."

This is why they say it to you in the very beginning of the game.

But if you ask me, a crowd is the last place I'd go to seek wisdom. You might find some, but it's not really worth the labour or time.