Dorn is obviously best suited as your two handed damage dealer, Much like Minsc, while Kagain remains the ulitmate tank. Using Shaar-Teel as a Bow/sword kind of utility fighter leaves room for all three of them for the evil party. Depending on the players own class, of course.
Yeah, I was considering making my CHARNAME fighter/mage go with two-handed swords/style for BGEE, but with Dorn in my party will be going longswords - with shield (but not sword and shield style) initially, then dual-wielding later. Kagain on Axe, Monty (if I keep him) on shortswords.
Then again, these discussions are basically moot since the experienced player will be able to tackle all obstacles basically no matter the party set up, while first time players won't have the precise knowledge and the trademarkt OCD-tendencies of the avarage forum user.
In the end, an extra ability point here and there doesn't make or break a character in terms of actual playability.
Dorn is obviously best suited as your two handed damage dealer, Much like Minsc, while Kagain remains the ulitmate tank. Using Shaar-Teel as a Bow/sword kind of utility fighter leaves room for all three of them for the evil party. Depending on the players own class, of course.
If CHARNAME is not a thief, who's going to do scouting *and* utility thief duties if you use all three of Dorn, Kagain, Shaar-Teel? It's going to be hard enough with just Dorn and Kagain in the party, and even if you dual Shar-Teel, it'll take her a while to be a decent thief.
Dorn is obviously best suited as your two handed damage dealer, Much like Minsc, while Kagain remains the ulitmate tank. Using Shaar-Teel as a Bow/sword kind of utility fighter leaves room for all three of them for the evil party. Depending on the players own class, of course.
If CHARNAME is not a thief, who's going to do scouting *and* utility thief duties if you use all three of Dorn, Kagain, Shaar-Teel? It's going to be hard enough with just Dorn and Kagain in the party, and even if you dual Shar-Teel, it'll take her a while to be a decent thief.
As I said, it does of course depend on the player class, and I would propably prefer Montaron over Shaar-Teel anyway. The point is that neither of Dorn, Kagain or Shaar-Teel makes any of the other redundant or completely unusable - it is, as always, up to the player to decide who he wants in his particular party.
By the way, the idea that one thief isn't enough always bugs me somewhat. The game isn't THAT heavy on traps apart from Durlag's Tower, and by then most thieves will have the required skill level.
By the way, the idea that one thief isn't enough always bugs me somewhat. The game isn't THAT heavy on traps apart from Durlag's Tower, and by then most thieves will have the required skill level.
I think this impression comes from BG2. In BG1 you had only 4 thief abilities (Open Locks, Find Traps, Pick Pockets, Move Silently), so it was fairly easy to max out a couple and have a good score on the other ones.
In BG2, however, not only stealth was broken into two separate abilities (Hide in Shadows/Move Silently), but Thieves also got more to do - detect illusions and set traps. If you want to make use of all of them, you'll need two or more specialized characters. In fact, you'll have to roll at least one yourself, considering...
Nalia and Imoen are dualled, Jan progresses slowly and Yoshimo dies.
By the way, the idea that one thief isn't enough always bugs me somewhat. The game isn't THAT heavy on traps apart from Durlag's Tower, and by then most thieves will have the required skill level.
I think this impression comes from BG2. In BG1 you had only 4 thief abilities (Open Locks, Find Traps, Pick Pockets, Move Silently), so it was fairly easy to max out a couple and have a good score on the other ones.
In BG2, however, not only stealth was broken into two separate abilities (Hide in Shadows/Move Silently), but Thieves also got more to do - detect illusions and set traps. If you want to make use of all of them, you'll need two or more specialized characters. In fact, you'll have to roll at least one yourself, considering...
Or take a fighter/mage/thief, for CHARNAME, but that's too much of a compromise in my book.
BTW much depends on when Dorn actually becomes available, might not be until mid game, or have the Devs said otherwise?
By the way, the idea that one thief isn't enough always bugs me somewhat. The game isn't THAT heavy on traps apart from Durlag's Tower, and by then most thieves will have the required skill level.
Its not so easy, if you want a single NPC who can scout reliably in daylight (given that this takes two skills) *and* deal with locks *and* traps, though I guess with Dorn's strength you might get away with skipping open locks initially and bashing most of them, using Knock on the harder ones.
Its not so easy, if you want a single NPC who can scout reliably in daylight (given that this takes two skills) *and* deal with locks *and* traps, though I guess with Dorn's strength you might get away with skipping open locks initially and bashing most of them, using Knock on the harder ones.
Guess I won't need pick-pockets either, as will just kill Algernon for his cloak, LOL!
I guess with Dorn's strength you might get away with skipping open locks initially and bashing most of them, using Knock on the harder ones.
But then you still got traps. Unless you know where they all are and can send a sturdy character to endure the damage, man that can give you a hard time.
I guess with Dorn's strength you might get away with skipping open locks initially and bashing most of them, using Knock on the harder ones.
But then you still got traps. Unless you know where they all are and can send a sturdy character to endure the damage, man that can give you a hard time.
I didn't mean I wouldn't take a thief, rather that I'm trying to think of ways to only need one! I will definitely be wanting to put points into find traps, move silently and hide in shadows! BTW before Durlag's Tower, what's the max number of points I'll need for find traps - 60? 75? For Durlag's Tower I usually try to have at least 85 or even 100
Great stuff guys! My only critique is in the second screenshot, can the text boxes be made wide enough to fit all the detail on a single line plus the scroll bar? I.e. "Two-Handed Weapon Style: 1" goes over two lines when the scroll bar is added!
Very true though he himself is not available until Chapter 4.
Yeah, seriously. That was always my weakpoint with Evil parties. I'd be like "okay so who should talk to this person..." And I'd end up with Xzar, with his measly 10 Charisma, at the highest. Rofl.
BTW before Durlag's Tower, what's the max number of points I'll need for find traps - 60? 75? For Durlag's Tower I usually try to have at least 85 or even 100
I think 60-75 should cover most traps and locks. Durlag's Tower has a trap that needs a 99 IIRC.
The clock bug is still not squashed in the screenshots: with BG1 in the BG2 engine, the BG1 clock (which showed the time) only shows the cogs and wheels. It still does in the screenshots. Can any of you beta-testers confirm if it's fixed in the final release?
People compare Dorn and Ajantis too stats-wise. You should also consider their respective class' special abilities too. Fact is - Dorn is more of a Damager, Ajantis is more of a Tank in my personal opinion. Same with Kagain, who uses axes and has helluva lot HP - he's a pure tank. Minsc on the other hand is a Damager, who can become a tank in BG2 (and a pretty gosh darn great one at that too) Ultimately, it's up to people to decide what roles one fits, but make sure to check back at the Blackguard thread where all its abilities were mentioned. You'll see a wide difference between a supportive Tank that Ajantis can be and a Super-damager that Dorn can be.
rasaad's portrait seems to have a reworked armor, not just color changed. and dorn looks more like gray orc now. i think devs made a portraits a bit more coloured to get closer to bg1 style, i think.
that said, i have bad feeling about dorn's life span in my first playthrough. i intend to play neutral (maybe good) and i will not take kindly to people questioning my authority or testing my patience. and by not kindly i mean severely mangled.
@Quartz Sorry, I'm a noob compared to you guys, but regarding the "rest until fully healed" I always used to picture my party taking a good long look at their wounds and deciding to spend another day (and night) at their current campsite. Why is that cheating? Is it because it reduces the chance for a random encounter?
There are two eye-grabbing details here: She has Spell Thrust and Fire Shield: Red, which obviously weren't found before in Baldur's Gate 1. They must have added these scrolls somewhere.
Not fact they add this scrolls. Neera is a wild mage and she chose spells from the list when leveling. Perhaps this spells would be available only for wild mage (but i don't think)
@Quartz Sorry, I'm a noob compared to you guys, but regarding the "rest until fully healed" I always used to picture my party taking a good long look at their wounds and deciding to spend another day (and night) at their current campsite. Why is that cheating? Is it because it reduces the chance for a random encounter?
Probably because you don't spend an extra day, you spend a week resting in a ditch etc...
@Quartz Sorry, I'm a noob compared to you guys, but regarding the "rest until fully healed" I always used to picture my party taking a good long look at their wounds and deciding to spend another day (and night) at their current campsite. Why is that cheating? Is it because it reduces the chance for a random encounter?
In the original game, you got little to no health back from resting. So if anybody was hurt, the only way to get healed was a spell, a potion, or a temple. Clerics and druids only had 1 healing spell until level ~7, and that spell only healed for 1d8.
Rest until healed minimizes the need to fill up spell slots with heals or horde potions. It also makes it easier to save money and get better gear faster, because you're not dropping 50-100 gold a pop on temple heals.
In short: It makes the original game much, much easier.
@Quartz Sorry, I'm a noob compared to you guys, but regarding the "rest until fully healed" I always used to picture my party taking a good long look at their wounds and deciding to spend another day (and night) at their current campsite. Why is that cheating? Is it because it reduces the chance for a random encounter?
Cheating is a term thrown around a lot and interpreted to mean various things to different people, so don't let it change the way you like playing the game. As for the rest until healed function, I believe the issue is that you negate the whole wear-and-tear part of extended forays out in the wilderness. Every resting session (if you have a caster with healing spells) brings your party back into tip-top shape in a relatively short amount of time, so basically no matter what happens you'll always be good as new. It's a bit like the common modern shooter mechanic where your health replenishes itself as soon as you're out of combat for a few seconds.
Re: Dorn's Con/HP: I don't particularly want for any of the characters (NPCs or my PC(s)) to be "perfect." For me, a big part of what makes the game so fun and interesting is how I negotiate various relative shortcomings of characters and the party overall.
So... Dorn might require a bit more healing and will chug down a few more healing potions during battle? That's not a big deal to me. His THACO AC is pretty good due to his 16 Dex. I'll almost surely give him THACO--reducing gear that improves AC. And as @Cheesebelly points out, Dorn will be delivering major damage. So he'll probably be taking a lot of enemies out before they do much harm to him.
As for Dorn being Neutral Evil, I guess it's no big surprise re: Neutral. Although his pact with a demon (?)* could bind him in certain respects 'contractually', I guess his own unique personality is what it is regardless.
Do we know what spells Dorn has as a Blackguard?
Also, we don't know yet what special ability he may have as a NPC, if any, correct?
* From Dorn's description: "Dorn is a half-orc Blackguard whose otherworldly patron grants him terrible powers in the form of his black sword and unholy spells."
Comments
In the end, an extra ability point here and there doesn't make or break a character in terms of actual playability.
By the way, the idea that one thief isn't enough always bugs me somewhat. The game isn't THAT heavy on traps apart from Durlag's Tower, and by then most thieves will have the required skill level.
In BG2, however, not only stealth was broken into two separate abilities (Hide in Shadows/Move Silently), but Thieves also got more to do - detect illusions and set traps. If you want to make use of all of them, you'll need two or more specialized characters. In fact, you'll have to roll at least one yourself, considering...
I always miss these things unless someone posts them.
Also, check out the fourth screen, it looks like someone is punching Rasaad's portrait in the face! hee hee
BTW much depends on when Dorn actually becomes available, might not be until mid game, or have the Devs said otherwise?
Fact is - Dorn is more of a Damager, Ajantis is more of a Tank in my personal opinion. Same with Kagain, who uses axes and has helluva lot HP - he's a pure tank. Minsc on the other hand is a Damager, who can become a tank in BG2 (and a pretty gosh darn great one at that too)
Ultimately, it's up to people to decide what roles one fits, but make sure to check back at the Blackguard thread where all its abilities were mentioned. You'll see a wide difference between a supportive Tank that Ajantis can be and a Super-damager that Dorn can be.
that said, i have bad feeling about dorn's life span in my first playthrough. i intend to play neutral (maybe good) and i will not take kindly to people questioning my authority or testing my patience. and by not kindly i mean severely mangled.
and do i see properly that spells have a pause between levels? useful!
Now I want to see the world map..
Rest until healed minimizes the need to fill up spell slots with heals or horde potions. It also makes it easier to save money and get better gear faster, because you're not dropping 50-100 gold a pop on temple heals.
In short: It makes the original game much, much easier.
As for the rest until healed function, I believe the issue is that you negate the whole wear-and-tear part of extended forays out in the wilderness. Every resting session (if you have a caster with healing spells) brings your party back into tip-top shape in a relatively short amount of time, so basically no matter what happens you'll always be good as new. It's a bit like the common modern shooter mechanic where your health replenishes itself as soon as you're out of combat for a few seconds.
So... Dorn might require a bit more healing and will chug down a few more healing potions during battle? That's not a big deal to me. His THACO AC is pretty good due to his 16 Dex. I'll almost surely give him THACO--reducing gear that improves AC. And as @Cheesebelly points out, Dorn will be delivering major damage. So he'll probably be taking a lot of enemies out before they do much harm to him.
As for Dorn being Neutral Evil, I guess it's no big surprise re: Neutral. Although his pact with a demon (?)* could bind him in certain respects 'contractually', I guess his own unique personality is what it is regardless.
Do we know what spells Dorn has as a Blackguard?
Also, we don't know yet what special ability he may have as a NPC, if any, correct?
* From Dorn's description: "Dorn is a half-orc Blackguard whose otherworldly patron grants him terrible powers in the form of his black sword and unholy spells."
Dex reduces ranged THAC0, STR melee.
Did you mean AC?