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Manual Discrepancies

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  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    edited November 2012
    @Jace

    How are you confirming the score reaction and adj. is wrong?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited November 2012
    Yea that reaction adjustment seems really off. If you were soloing with a mage with 3 charisma, according to your chart unless you have above 13 reputation every person will want to kill you and the flaming fist will be called whenever you appear.

  • JaceJace Member Posts: 193
    Make a character with 3 Charisma. At the bottom of your stats page you will have Reaction -8, likewise you will have Reaction -1 with 9 Charisma. In any case, the BG1 and SoA manual have it wrong, but the ToSC manual has it right. Mind of messy.

    And no, you don't get attacked for having low reaction, you get attacked for having low reputation.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Jace said:

    Make a character with 3 Charisma. At the bottom of your stats page you will have Reaction -8, likewise you will have Reaction -1 with 9 Charisma. In any case, the BG1 and SoA manual have it wrong, but the ToSC manual has it right. Mind of messy.

    And no, you don't get attacked for having low reaction, you get attacked for having low reputation.

    Yea my bad for whatever reason I was thinking reaction had an impact on this. You are right.
  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    elminster said:

    Sorry if I just mass spammed anyone. I've been recording peoples names down by points in part to credit them but also just so I know who said what.

    Don't worry, thanks to a forum bug, no one will be notified if you edit their nametag in. If you're really worried, you can just not put the @. :)
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited November 2012
    I wasn't really that worried once I realised if you put the name like so (@Jalily) rather than so ( @jalily) it doesn't go orange (it shouldn't pm you).
  • ElectricMonkElectricMonk Member Posts: 599
    @elminster Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but on page 56 of "Mastering Melee and Magic" in the first line of the Two-Handed Weapon Style description it says "two-handedw eapon" where it should say "two handed weapon".
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    good catch i will add it shortly.
  • SenashSenash Member Posts: 405
    edited November 2012
    Somehow I can't find anyone mentioning that the table for racial thieving bonuses is missing. You can only find racial bonuses for detect hidden doors. Are these racial bonuses no longer in game or they are just not covered in manual (or were they never implemented?)
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Senash said:

    Somehow I can't find anyone mentioning that the table for racial thieving bonuses is missing. You can only find racial bonuses for detect hidden doors. Are these racial bonuses no longer in game or they are just not covered in manual (or were they never implemented?)

    I'd be very surprised if they're not in the game, as they're defintitely in BG2, I suspect it's just another omission in the manual.

  • SenashSenash Member Posts: 405
    On the missing tables, like saving throws, spell progression and stuff, I would suggest adding the tables from playitharcore.com (or something like that):
    playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Progression_Charts
  • JaceJace Member Posts: 193
    If over-saturation of tables in a concern, at least for THAC0, you can explain that it starts at 20 for everyone at first level and improves based on level and class like this:

    Warrior classes and Monk: Improves by 1 every level.
    Priest classes: Improves by 2 every 3 levels.
    Rogue classes: Improves by 1 every 2 levels.
    Wizard classes: Improves by 1 every 3 levels.
  • SedSed Member Posts: 790
    Under Stealth/backstab section the following can be read:

    "Note that in order to backstab someone, the thief must be standing behind the target."

    I was under the impression that BG didn't have any way to actually know this, and thus you can backstab someone in the face. I believe this was a topic in bugs section before.

    @Thantalas I believe you were involved in that discussion (as in all others) ;)
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Sed said:

    Under Stealth/backstab section the following can be read:

    "Note that in order to backstab someone, the thief must be standing behind the target."

    I was under the impression that BG didn't have any way to actually know this, and thus you can backstab someone in the face. I believe this was a topic in bugs section before.

    @Thantalas I believe you were involved in that discussion (as in all others) ;)

    Are you sure? I'm pretty sure you *do* have to be behind, or very nearly behind the target to backstab successfully

  • ankhegankheg Member Posts: 546
    Is it possible to get the (hopefully) perfect final version for translation in the future? Although there was no hungarian version of bg (not officially anyway) bg2 came with a badly translated manual in Hungary. I would do it if needed. (maybe a bit slowly, I have a thesis to write:P )
  • LephidilesLephidiles Member Posts: 20
    Did not read the entire topic so this migth be mentioned but ill post it anyway

    Page: 56
    "Two-Handed Weapon Style This weapon class allows the character to use a two-handedw eapon and receive special bonuses: "
  • SedSed Member Posts: 790
    @Oxford_guy
    No, not sure, that's why I brought it up. It has been a discussion here on the forums.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Sed said:

    @Oxford_guy
    No, not sure, that's why I brought it up. It has been a discussion here on the forums.

    Okay, something to test then

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited November 2012

    Did not read the entire topic so this migth be mentioned but ill post it anyway

    Page: 56
    "Two-Handed Weapon Style This weapon class allows the character to use a two-handedw eapon and receive special bonuses: "

    :) its above yours on this page.
  • SenashSenash Member Posts: 405
    ankheg said:

    Is it possible to get the (hopefully) perfect final version for translation in the future? Although there was no hungarian version of bg (not officially anyway) bg2 came with a badly translated manual in Hungary. I would do it if needed. (maybe a bit slowly, I have a thesis to write:P )

    Could help you with that ;) I really hate bad translations... But I also have a thesis to write :)
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    I've tested it in BG tutu and backstab only does backstab damage if you are behind the target.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    elminster said:

    I've tested it in BG tutu and backstab only does backstab damage if you are behind the target.

    Still might be worth double-checking in BGEE, but from what you've said is likely to be the same as Tutu
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited November 2012
    I can try it in BG 1 or BG2 too, but I'm 95% certain the result will be the same.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited November 2012
    Just tried it in BG1 vanilla and you still need to be behind the target.
  • SedSed Member Posts: 790
    great.. I just reacted since I remember it had been a topic in the bugs section before :)
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    You have the blood of noblemen from Winthrops Inn as well as the death of noober on your hands :p
  • SedSed Member Posts: 790
    Oh, they tend to die anyway ;)
  • TheCoffeeGodTheCoffeeGod Member Posts: 618
    One thing I noticed (unless I completely missed it) is the Theif Skills Race/Dexterity modifer chart is missing.
    Class/Kit bonus/penalties are included in their respective descriptions (though vaguely in some cases) however the Racial/Dexterity modifers are not mentioned at all, in either the Racial of Stat sections, nor in the Tables section.




  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Yea a lot of those charts are missing. I've been kind of lazy on going through and listing them all, but I will. Maybe I'll even make a chart of it :)
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    A lot of the charts were left out because they were either unnecessary, inaccurate, both, or just plain cumbersome to include. I didn't want another twenty pages of appendices, so I left certain ones out (I tried to only leave out the ones that were less immediately relevant, like spell progression and THAC0).

    The thief skill/race chart was one of those. But the values ought to be listed somewhere else (I don't recall where off-hand).
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