Skip to content

Manual Discrepancies

1235714

Comments

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited November 2012
    @Oxford_Guy Just so you know you put that you need 9 lore instead of 9 intelligence for casting from scrolls.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    The problems with the spell descriptions is mostly because the manual was finalized before the spell descriptions were cleaned up in the game.

    Hopefully Overhaul will be allowed to correct any mistakes in the manuals (and @Aosaw has availability to work on them too that is).
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    We should compile all the problems pointed to prepare a new edition of the manuals. They could be pushed as an update later.
  • Rush_that_speaksRush_that_speaks Member Posts: 36
    agris said:

    Which manual is more up to date, the one that comes when you pre-load or the one online? I noticed that they aren't the same size.

    Both versions are almost the same (I checked it with excel ;) ). On the basis of differences I found I suspect the one in pre-load folder is more up-to-date – few registered trademark symbols were added, copyright notice at the end was corrected, third paragraph in introduction to first manual was slightly modified and last empty page in second manual was removed.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Sorry if I just mass spammed anyone. I've been recording peoples names down by points in part to credit them but also just so I know who said what.
  • Rush_that_speaksRush_that_speaks Member Posts: 36
    I also can’t find information about experience cap which definitely should be included.
  • JaceJace Member Posts: 193
    edited November 2012
    Mage spells 3rd to 5th level. Oh boy!

    Monster Summoning spells in general - Should be rewritten to specify that you can only summon one creature with a chance for a second one.

    Flame Arrow - Saving Throw: None contradicts with the larger description stating save vs. spells for half.

    Minor Spell Deflection and Minor Spell Turning - Range should be 0, not Touch.

    Confusion - The phrase "adjusted for Wisdom" should be removed as the Magical Defense Adjustment for high Wisdom was never implemented. Maybe also change Saving throw to Neg.

    Emotion: Hopelessness - The larger description doesn't really justify the Saving Throw: Special description. Change it to Neg.

    Otiluke's Resilient Sphere and Polymorph Other - Since you can fire these spells from a distance, Range: 0 is erroneous.

    Remove Curse - Saving Throw should be None (not Special), and Area of Effect should be 1 creature (not Special)

    Stoneskin - Should have a casting time of 1, not 1 round.

    (((Teleport Field - I am not sure on this one, does it really offer a saving throw for Neg?)))

    Shadow Door - Range should be 0 (not 10), and Are of Effect should be the caster (not Special).

    Spell Immunity - Area of Effect should be the caster (not Special).


  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,758
    That's another mistake (or is it intended?):

    The manual says archers can become specialized (two slots) in melee weapons!!! While in BG archers could only become proficient in melee weapons; they could never specialize.

    So, do archers become more powerful in BG:EE?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Jace said:

    Mage spells 3rd to 5th level. Oh boy!

    Monster Summoning spells in general - Should be rewritten to specify that you can only summon one creature with a chance for a second one.

    Flame Arrow - Saving Throw: None contradicts with the larger description stating save vs. spells for half.

    Minor Spell Deflection and Minor Spell Turning - Range should be 0, not Touch.

    Confusion - The phrase "adjusted for Wisdom" should be removed as the Magical Defense Adjustment for high Wisdom was never implemented. Maybe also change Saving throw to Neg.

    Emotion: Hopelessness - The larger description doesn't really justify the Saving Throw: Special description. Change it to Neg.

    Otiluke's Resilient Sphere and Polymorph Other - Since you can fire these spells from a distance, Range: 0 is erroneous.

    Remove Curse - Saving Throw should be None (not Special), and Area of Effect should be 1 creature (not Special)

    Stoneskin - Should have a casting time of 1, not 1 round.

    (((Teleport Field - I am not sure on this one, does it really offer a saving throw for Neg?)))

    Shadow Door - Range should be 0 (not 10), and Are of Effect should be the caster (not Special).

    Spell Immunity - Area of Effect should be the caster (not Special).


    Iron Skin is a casting time of one round. So they may just be making the spells the same.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    elminster said:

    @Oxford_Guy Just so you know you put that you need 9 lore instead of 9 intelligence for casting from scrolls.

    Oops! So I did, what a muffinhead! Thanks for correcting my mistake!
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    elminster said:

    Jace said:

    Mage spells 3rd to 5th level. Oh boy!
    Stoneskin - Should have a casting time of 1, not 1 round.

    Iron Skin is a casting time of one round. So they may just be making the spells the same.
    That's a massive difference, though!

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317

    elminster said:

    Jace said:

    Mage spells 3rd to 5th level. Oh boy!
    Stoneskin - Should have a casting time of 1, not 1 round.

    Iron Skin is a casting time of one round. So they may just be making the spells the same.
    That's a massive difference, though!

    Yea I know I'm just saying that could be what is going on.
  • JaceJace Member Posts: 193
    Extra typo before I go for a rest, page 32 of the Mastering Melee and Magic manual says that Dwarves get a -1 penalty to Charisma. Should be -2 as the maximum Charisma score they can achieve on character creation is 16.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Jace said:

    Extra typo before I go for a rest, page 32 of the Mastering Melee and Magic manual says that Dwarves get a -1 penalty to Charisma. Should be -2 as the maximum Charisma score they can achieve on character creation is 16.

    Yea I saw that too awhile back. I'll include it but it might just be them being boosted a little.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @elminster

    It isn't >.<
  • BerconBercon Member Posts: 485
    Glitterdust - Saving throw negates (not special as manual claims). Unless it was "fixed" so it always reveals invisible without saving throw. Previously saving throw completely negates revealing invisible and blindness.

    Weapons - There is no mention of BG2 weapons such as Katanas, except in kit section. I assume the games does have katanas and other non-BG1 weapons, otherwise people are gonna be quite confused when they create character that cannot wield anything until BG2:EE comes along.
  • QueynosQueynos Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 127
    There's a mistake in Fighter/Mage/Thief description, it says "They cannot use their thieving skills while wearing studded leather" it should be "They cannot use their thieving skills while wearing more than studded leather"
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Bercon said:

    Glitterdust - Saving throw negates (not special as manual claims). Unless it was "fixed" so it always reveals invisible without saving throw. Previously saving throw completely negates revealing invisible and blindness.

    Weapons - There is no mention of BG2 weapons such as Katanas, except in kit section. I assume the games does have katanas and other non-BG1 weapons, otherwise people are gonna be quite confused when they create character that cannot wield anything until BG2:EE comes along.

    Yea I got the Katana one written down already. They are supposed to be in BGEE this is just a manual mistake.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    elminster said:

    Jace said:

    Extra typo before I go for a rest, page 32 of the Mastering Melee and Magic manual says that Dwarves get a -1 penalty to Charisma. Should be -2 as the maximum Charisma score they can achieve on character creation is 16.

    Yea I saw that too awhile back. I'll include it but it might just be them being boosted a little.
    Dwarves don't really need boosting, but I guess it's possible they've done this.
  • QueynosQueynos Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 127
    edited November 2012
    Haste description says that "Also,
    due to the energy expended during the duration of this spell the creature in
    effect loses a day." It must be because english is not my mother tongue but I find it pretty obscure, they lose a day of what ? I presume it means that they age a day (besides I thought that haste made you age a year)

    There is alos a consistency issue with weapons styles, single weapon style says that
    "If one slot is spent on this proficiency, the wielder gets a +1 bonus to AC"
    and sword and shield says
    "One slot spent gives a -2 bonus to AC against missile weapons."
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317

    elminster said:

    Jace said:

    Extra typo before I go for a rest, page 32 of the Mastering Melee and Magic manual says that Dwarves get a -1 penalty to Charisma. Should be -2 as the maximum Charisma score they can achieve on character creation is 16.

    Yea I saw that too awhile back. I'll include it but it might just be them being boosted a little.
    Dwarves don't really need boosting, but I guess it's possible they've done this.
    Who knows but I included the -2 down in the list.
  • ankhegankheg Member Posts: 546
    Cavalier kit description
    "demonic" (http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/6463/demon-in-spell-descriptions#latest)
    same goes for wild surge 54 I guess

    Dwarf, Gnomes, Halflings
    Additional saving throw bonuses based on Constitution

    There really should be a table about that (this is the only stat based bonus which is not affected by changing the stat retroactively!)

    (Maybe there should be a table of saving throws/classes as well)
  • QueynosQueynos Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 127
    edited November 2012
    Apparently Chaos Shield was forgotten when writing the spell list

    Also missing are alignment restriction for most of classes (only blackguard "must be evil" is mentionned)
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    ankheg said:


    There really should be a table about that (this is the only stat based bonus which is not affected by changing the stat retroactively!)

    I actually think it fixes itself at level up, but I'm not certain.
  • AADA7AAADA7A Member Posts: 32
    A couple of questions: When does the avenger gain mage spells? Also I'm missing hac0/saving throws tables in the manual, no?

    Great work otherwise!
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited November 2012
    The avenger probably has them in their spells whenever they can cast them as a druid (they are in their priest spell list after all).

    So at level 1 you could only see chromatic orb. Just a guess on my part.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @AADA7A

    Those spells are a special perk of Avengers. They already got them in BG2.

    There aren't any THAC0 tables in any of the manuals?
  • fealthasfealthas Member Posts: 5
    found this error:
    Page 141 (manual 2): thieves are listed to get d8 for hit die (which should only be a d6)

    oh and Elminster wrote:
    Races (31) Dwarf should have -2 to charisma instead of -1 (@ Jace)

    That is not an error but a correction of a mistake in the original Baldurs Gate.
    According to the AD&D 2nd edition Players Handbook page 20 (27 in updated version) Dwarves should only get -1 to charisma.
  • Rush_that_speaksRush_that_speaks Member Posts: 36
    Queynos said:

    Haste description says that "Also,
    due to the energy expended during the duration of this spell the creature in
    effect loses a day." It must be because english is not my mother tongue but I find it pretty obscure, they lose a day of what ? I presume it means that they age a day (besides I thought that haste made you age a year)

    I think aging one year had no effect in game and was omitted in the spell description in BG2.
    It’s good though that they added information about losing one day and getting fatigue because it wasn’t mentioned before. Although English is not my mother tongue too so I have no idea if it is grammatically well formed.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @fealthas

    I'll check that Dwarf thing out later.
Sign In or Register to comment.