Do sorcerers still receive no spell bonus for having a high charisma? I was sure they would change that, but I can't find it anywhere. blockquote>
I sure hope they change it from intelligence to charisma for sorcerers. That always irritated me in BG2. Sorcerers were added to BG2 because of 3rd edition inspiration I guess. So why leave the job half done?
@fealthas It was a balance concern, mostly. Sorcerers get a lot of spells already, and their spells are just as powerful as a wizard's; if sorcerers also got bonus spells (and the wizards didn't), there would be no contest between the two.
The "Int is prime requisite" note is mostly irrelevant; it pertains to dual-classing alone, actually, which doesn't pertain to the sorcerer anyway.
Are you able to fix things in the manual? I'm really surprised that there are this many errors if they are all true. Haven't we had 14 years to fix them?
@bigdogchris For as many errors as you see, there were about three-hundred others that also had to be fixed, and since the manual was "completed" back in September, some things were still being finalized. I might be able to do some fixing (correction: I can), but since I'm no longer working on them full-time as I was back in August, it may take a while; and ultimately it's up to Overhaul whether or not to update the PDFs for the game.
I wouldn't be surprised if they've seen this thread already. Hopefully, we can implement fixes to the manual post-ship, but they probably have more crucial issues to think about at the moment.
On effects of reputation and alignment (pages 17-20), the table listing the reputation effect on item costs (which was present in the original BG1 manual) is suspiciously missing.
I'm going on PnP memory here, but I believe the attacks per round (APR) are resolved independently. Lets look at several cases.
Case 1: 2 APR (1 + 1), dual wielding; Weapon 1 (primary) Spd 4; Weapon 2 (off-hand) Spd 3 Weapon 2 attacks first in segment 3 of Round 1 (1.8 sec) Weapon 1 attacks second in segment 4 of Round 1 (2.4 sec)
Attack order is governed by the weapon speed modified initiative. That isn't to say dual wielding isn't implemented differently from PnP, for example the off hand attack could be forced onto the last segment (10) in a round.
Case 2: 3 APR (2 + 1), dual wielding; Weapon 1 Spd 2; Weapon 2 Spd 5 Round 1 Weapon 1 attacks first/second in segment 2 of Round 1 (1.2 sec) Weapon 1 attacks first/second in segment 2 +/- 1 of Round 2* Weapon 2 attacks third in segment 5 of Round 1 (3 sec) Round resolved, 3 attacks
Case 3: 5/2 APR (3/2 + 1), dual wielding; Weapon 1 Spd 2; Weapon 2 Spd 5 Round 1 Weapon 1 attacks first in segment 2 of Round 1 (1.2 sec) Weapon 2 attacks second in segment 5 of Round 1 (3 sec) Round resolved, 2 attacks Round 2 Weapon 1 attacks first in segment 2 of Round 2 (1.2 sec) Weapon 1 attacks second in segment 2 +/- 1 of Round 2* Weapon 2 attacks second in segment 5 of Round 2 (3 sec) Round resolved, 3 attacks for a total of 5/2 attacks per round
What I'm not sure about is how BG handles attacks that should fall on the same combat segment, the situations I've marked with an *. In PnP, you roll one initiative d10 per weapon per attack, modify that roll with your weapon speed (and dex, but lets ignore that), and if multiple attacks were to fall on the same combat segment, you re-roll the initiative die. I think all the IE games just assume you have a flat initiative of 1 and modify it, so I'm not sure if multiple attacks can occur in the same segment or how they handle it.
They might have borrowed the PnP mechanism for multiple APR for ranged weapons. In that case, there is no initiative roll and depending on the APR, the attacks always occur at set combat segments (2 APR, segment 1 and 5; 3 APR, segments 1, 5, 9 iirc). Maybe that's the tactic used here? If so, that would negate weapon speed effects for all APR > 1 using a single weapon.
In the BG2 manual experience point information was located immediately after "Experience Point for Multi and Dual Classed Characters". On page 30 of "Mastering Melee and Magic, there is a huge gap where this should go. It should read something like this:
EXPERIENCE POINT CAP In Baldur’s Gate: Enhanced Edition there is an experience point cap of 161,000 XP. This means that characters can never earn more than 161,000 XP during the course of the game. Below is a list of the levels that specific classes can achieve with 161,000 XP:
You can become truly powerful, indeed! - Volo Yet there is always another with greater power than your own. - Elminster
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ERROR: Sword Cost Survival Guide
The table of contents should be started on it's own page. It does not look correct being started halfway down the page. This change may also throw off all of the page numbers, unfortunately.
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ERROR: Mastering Melee and Magic pg55/56
Two-weapon Fighting Style description/title is missing, though the table for the attack penalties is there.
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ERROR: Mastering Melee and Magic Spell progression tables are completely missing .
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ERROR: Mastering Melee and Magic On the Physical ability scores table, there is no mention of HP regen due to 20+ constitution. You could have 20 Constitution listed like this:
HP adj. 20: +2(+5)[60]
Constitution HP Adj. This number is added to the Hit Point roll a character makes when going up a level or when starting the game. Numbers in parentheses are for warrior classes only. Numbers in brackets represent how many seconds to regenerate 1 HP.
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Error: Mastering Melee and Magic
Numerous thieving, weapon, and armor tables are missing. Some missing tables are invalid for BG as they contain abilities not present in the game, but others are valuable and missing.
Thieving skills Set Traps and Detect Illusion are not covered by the manual. I think at least the Detect Illusion is quite far from self explanatory so it'd be nice if these were included under Special Abilities section.
Thieving skills Set Traps and Detect Illusion are not covered by the manual. I think at least the Detect Illusion is quite far from self explanatory so it'd be nice if these were included under Special Abilities section.
I agree completely, I remember when I first played BG2 wondering what these abilities actually did!
I agree with @Balquo. Let's report everything that is not right with the current manual; smaller things will have lower priority and will only be fixed if time allows.
I agree with @Balquo. Let's report everything that is not right with the current manual; smaller things will have lower priority and will only be fixed if time allows.
Yes, report everything, but clearly some things are higher priority than others to fix
@elminster I suggest to keep typos that don’t require any discussion separate from other remarks and put them down in format like: (page) is: “string1”, should be: “string2” Further description may be added only if typo can’t be identified unambiguously that way.
(103) Bless - It's color should be blue instead of white. (105) Magical Stone - Since it's a actually projectile attack, it should be listed with a range that is above 0, with a duration of Instant and with an area of effect of 1 creature. (105) Remove Fear - I don't think the stated 1 creature/4 levels actually applies, unless they changed it. (106) Shillelagh - It's range should be 0. (110) Spiritual Hammer - It's range should be 0. (111) Glyph of Warding - It's Range should not be listed as 0, it's casting time should be 1 round, and it's saving throw should be Neg. (113) Remove Curse - Same description error as the wizard spell. (114) Remove Paralysis - It's whole description should be rewritten so that it no longer implies that it only affects one creature. (115) Zone of Sweet Air - It's range should be 0. (116) Cloak of Fear - It's range should be 0. (124) Mass Cure - It's range should 0. (125) Raise Dead - Saving Throw should be listed as None instead of Special. (126) True Seeing - It's range should be 0.
The price discount for scores higher than 15 could also be included. Let's call it Price Mod. or whatever fancy name you desire, which determines how much the base cost of an item on sale will be modified. For example, with 18 Charisma, an item that would normally cost 400 gold will now cost (400 x 0.85) = 340 gold.
Comments
The "Int is prime requisite" note is mostly irrelevant; it pertains to dual-classing alone, actually, which doesn't pertain to the sorcerer anyway.
Are you able to fix things in the manual? I'm really surprised that there are this many errors if they are all true. Haven't we had 14 years to fix them?
I'm going on PnP memory here, but I believe the attacks per round (APR) are resolved independently. Lets look at several cases.
Case 1: 2 APR (1 + 1), dual wielding; Weapon 1 (primary) Spd 4; Weapon 2 (off-hand) Spd 3
Weapon 2 attacks first in segment 3 of Round 1 (1.8 sec)
Weapon 1 attacks second in segment 4 of Round 1 (2.4 sec)
Attack order is governed by the weapon speed modified initiative. That isn't to say dual wielding isn't implemented differently from PnP, for example the off hand attack could be forced onto the last segment (10) in a round.
Case 2: 3 APR (2 + 1), dual wielding; Weapon 1 Spd 2; Weapon 2 Spd 5
Round 1
Weapon 1 attacks first/second in segment 2 of Round 1 (1.2 sec)
Weapon 1 attacks first/second in segment 2 +/- 1 of Round 2*
Weapon 2 attacks third in segment 5 of Round 1 (3 sec)
Round resolved, 3 attacks
Case 3: 5/2 APR (3/2 + 1), dual wielding; Weapon 1 Spd 2; Weapon 2 Spd 5
Round 1
Weapon 1 attacks first in segment 2 of Round 1 (1.2 sec)
Weapon 2 attacks second in segment 5 of Round 1 (3 sec)
Round resolved, 2 attacks
Round 2
Weapon 1 attacks first in segment 2 of Round 2 (1.2 sec)
Weapon 1 attacks second in segment 2 +/- 1 of Round 2*
Weapon 2 attacks second in segment 5 of Round 2 (3 sec)
Round resolved, 3 attacks for a total of 5/2 attacks per round
What I'm not sure about is how BG handles attacks that should fall on the same combat segment, the situations I've marked with an *. In PnP, you roll one initiative d10 per weapon per attack, modify that roll with your weapon speed (and dex, but lets ignore that), and if multiple attacks were to fall on the same combat segment, you re-roll the initiative die. I think all the IE games just assume you have a flat initiative of 1 and modify it, so I'm not sure if multiple attacks can occur in the same segment or how they handle it.
They might have borrowed the PnP mechanism for multiple APR for ranged weapons. In that case, there is no initiative roll and depending on the APR, the attacks always occur at set combat segments (2 APR, segment 1 and 5; 3 APR, segments 1, 5, 9 iirc). Maybe that's the tactic used here? If so, that would negate weapon speed effects for all APR > 1 using a single weapon.
Maybe @CameronTofer can help us sort it out.
Wrong image sizes for portraits
Wrong HD for Thief/Bard (shows D8 when they should be D6)
ERROR:
The hd information is missing from Rogue class descriptions too.
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ERROR:
hd is missing from Mage as well (for consistency sake) but is there for Sorcerer.
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ERROR:
@elminster
With what @Rush_that_speaks mentions, I will add to that.
In the BG2 manual experience point information was located immediately after "Experience Point for Multi and Dual Classed Characters". On page 30 of "Mastering Melee and Magic, there is a huge gap where this should go. It should read something like this: ----
ERROR:
Sword Cost Survival Guide
The table of contents should be started on it's own page. It does not look correct being started halfway down the page. This change may also throw off all of the page numbers, unfortunately.
----
ERROR:
Mastering Melee and Magic pg55/56
Two-weapon Fighting Style description/title is missing, though the table for the attack penalties is there.
----
ERROR:
Mastering Melee and Magic
Spell progression tables are completely missing .
----
ERROR:
Mastering Melee and Magic
On the Physical ability scores table, there is no mention of HP regen due to 20+ constitution. You could have 20 Constitution listed like this:
HP adj.
20: +2(+5)[60]
Constitution
HP Adj.
This number is added to the Hit Point roll a character makes when going up a level or when starting the game. Numbers in parentheses are for warrior classes only. Numbers in brackets represent how many seconds to regenerate 1 HP.
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Error:
Mastering Melee and Magic
Numerous thieving, weapon, and armor tables are missing. Some missing tables are invalid for BG as they contain abilities not present in the game, but others are valuable and missing.
I can assure you that the in-game descriptions are correct.
That's the first thing I checked when I saw the hit die problems.
(I'll get around to the other mentioned things later)
Level 10 actually.
You've had the pleasure of playing, so you would know ;-)
(page) is: “string1”, should be: “string2”
Further description may be added only if typo can’t be identified unambiguously that way.
(103) Bless - It's color should be blue instead of white.
(105) Magical Stone - Since it's a actually projectile attack, it should be listed with a range that is above 0, with a duration of Instant and with an area of effect of 1 creature.
(105) Remove Fear - I don't think the stated 1 creature/4 levels actually applies, unless they changed it.
(106) Shillelagh - It's range should be 0.
(110) Spiritual Hammer - It's range should be 0.
(111) Glyph of Warding - It's Range should not be listed as 0, it's casting time should be 1 round, and it's saving throw should be Neg.
(113) Remove Curse - Same description error as the wizard spell.
(114) Remove Paralysis - It's whole description should be rewritten so that it no longer implies that it only affects one creature.
(115) Zone of Sweet Air - It's range should be 0.
(116) Cloak of Fear - It's range should be 0.
(124) Mass Cure - It's range should 0.
(125) Raise Dead - Saving Throw should be listed as None instead of Special.
(126) True Seeing - It's range should be 0.
The Reaction Adjustment based on Charisma is wrong for scores lower than 10. They should be like this.
Score (Reaction Adj.)
3 (-8)
4 (-7)
5 (-6)
6 (-5)
7 (-4)
8 (-2)
9 (-1)
The price discount for scores higher than 15 could also be included. Let's call it Price Mod. or whatever fancy name you desire, which determines how much the base cost of an item on sale will be modified. For example, with 18 Charisma, an item that would normally cost 400 gold will now cost (400 x 0.85) = 340 gold.
Score (Price Mod.)
3-15 (100%)
16 (95%)
17 (90%)
18 (85%)
19 (80%)
20-25 (75%)