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Which, in your opinion, is the most powerful class in the Infinity Engine Games series?

Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,699
Please Note:

This poll is with reference to the Baldur's Gate Saga and Icewind Dale.

While voting, keep in mind the Experience Cap.

I've given only the most popular choices, but there's an "Other" option as well, since a poll can have a maximum of 10 options in all.

The options stand for both multi-classes and dual-classes, as well as any kit options that the classes may provide.

Let the verdict begin!

Which, in your opinion, is the most powerful class in the Infinity Engine Games series? 48 votes

Fighter/Mage
31%
BelgarathMTHHugoRuneNoonFinneousPJLord_Tansheronsmady3PurudayaGirewanJaheiras_WitnesssemiticgodkanisathabutteredsoulDrakeICNBubbSorcererV1ct0r 15 votes
Fighter/Cleric (or Ranger/Cleric)
4%
Balrog99PaulaMigrate 2 votes
Fighter/Druid
0%
Monk
0%
Inquisitor
6%
MiridorDJKajuruWarChiefZeke 3 votes
Blackguard
0%
Illusionist/Thief
10%
EldmoreFlashburnAstafasPantalionRaduziel 5 votes
Sorcerer (or Dragon Disciple)
14%
MERLANCEO_BruceJoeyFenghoangProontArdulSyllistria 7 votes
Wild Mage
6%
GallengerbooinyoureyesEmpyrial 3 votes
Other (Please state)
27%
sarevok57elminsterAnduinGrond0ThacoBellifupaulinelroumenAbi_DalzimHarpagornisSkatanRik_Kirtaniyatbone1histamiini 13 votes
histamiini
«1

Comments

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,372
    edited February 2018
    Fighter/Mage
    I don't consider it very interesting, myself, and I can think of several situations where the ideal character would be something else. But fighter/mages just have a lot of important tools at their disposal. The fighter class is already extremely useful in all kinds of situations, and mage buffs dramatically extend one's lifespan. Mage levels also grant access to wands, which are immensely overpowered in BG1 and SoD, as well as lots of high-level technical tools in BG2, from Teleport Field to Time Stop. In Icewind Dale, fighter/mages will struggle a little until they get partway into the Vale of Shadows and gain access to Mirror Image, at which point they will become increasingly powerful tanks as the game goes on.

    If you include Icewind Dale 2 in the equation, then things get very different because of IWD2's using the 3rd edition ruleset. 3E rules cripple multi-classes, IWD2 rewards single-classed spellcasters, and IWD2's limited number of scrolls makes mages the weakest primary spellcasting class. If you wanted a character that could succeed in BG1, SoD, BG2, ToB, IWD, and IWD2, a sorcerer would be an excellent class in all of them.

    I'd name the following classes as ideal for each game, assuming moderate player metagame knowledge (somebody who is neither a veteran nor a newbie):

    BG1: Berserker
    SoD: Fighter/Illusionist
    BG2: Fighter/Illusionist
    ToB: Fighter/Illusionist
    IWD: Dwarven Defender
    IWD2: Sorcerer

    If you're going solo, replace the Berserker with a Fighter/Illusionist and the Dwarven Defender with a Fighter/Mage/Cleric. If you're going no-reload, replace the Berserker with a Berserker(7)->Mage, and it will take you all the way to the Throne of Bhaal.

    Grond0Proont
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,198
    Fighter/Mage
    By and large, a Fighter/Mage hybrid of some kind in various possible flavors. Magic is obviously powerful in the series, as are some of the ridiculous weapons lying around - access to both gives the ideal overlap.

    Of course that's just a gross generalization, YMMV when it comes to the details. Some people will no doubt argue for Sorcerer instead, however F/M does basically the same things except it also hits stuff over the head. And we all know hitting things over the head is the one true way to play D&D.

    Mirandel
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    edited February 2018
    Illusionist/Thief
    Spells: check

    Infinite backstab: check

    Overpowered traps: check

    Ability to use any item: check.

    Lethlian
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,699
    edited February 2018
    Other (Please state)
    Mage/Cleric or Fighter/Mage/Cleric

    It might seem ironical that having created this poll myself, I did not include these in the first nine options. The fact is I'd completely forgotten about it, and realized it only after I'd finally posted the poll. :D

    Mage/Cleric gets to cast both arcane and divine spells, which adds to both power as well as versatility. Slow but powerful Cleric spells become more effective with the Robe of Vecna and the ability to be cast in sequencers and contingencies. In fact, there are some really powerful spell sequencers which can only be cast by a Cleric/Mage. This class has immediate and spontaneous access to almost all the buffs one would ever need. If required, it can use Holy Power + PFMW (or DUHM) + Righteous Magic, coupled with a Stoneskin + Blur + Mirror Image to be a dangerous frontliner with great damage and THAC0 as well as powerful defenses. It can use all wands and scrolls, shields and helmets, and also has access to powerful weapons like Sling of Everard, Crom Faeyr, Flail of the Ages, Staff of the Magi, to name a few. This class has just so many more possibilities than any else.

    The only drawback is APR, and if one is willing to sacrifice fast level progression and a few high level spell slots, one can take F/M/C to get max APR. Still, my first choice will be Mage/Cleric.

    (I still don't understand how I had forgotten about it in the beginning. Weird...)

    booinyoureyes
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,127
    Other (Please state)
    I would have loved to say transmuter or druid or thief... But the strongest class is either multi or dual.

    I would tend towards an assassin dualed late to fighter. Early game all encounters are easily won with poison weapon through ranged weaponry (darts!). Then once he picks up use any item and times many backstab, he gets fighter hlas and spell casting through scrolls.
    Of course boring to go through the XP farming.

    Alternatively, fun from the start would either be FT or FMT.

    Proont
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,699
    edited February 2018
    Other (Please state)
    Grond0 said:

    Which class is deemed most powerful depends on lots of things, e.g.
    - solo or party?
    - reload or not?
    - does power mean ability to kill enemies or something else?
    - any restrictions on items used?
    - difficulty level?
    - mods installed?

    @Grond0, for points 1 and 5, I've stated nothing specifically, so it can be either, and you can give your opinion accordingly. Item restrictions - No, you can use all items that are available to your chosen class; Reload - you may, since I've said nothing about No Reload here; Mods - No, we're considering the official game version here. And yes, by power, it means both the ability to kill and not to be killed. Hope that clears things up. :)

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    edited February 2018
    Fighter/Mage
    Actually I would have picked FMT

    PantalionProont
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,282
    Fighter/Cleric (or Ranger/Cleric)
    My vote is for ranger/cleric, especially before the EE nerf. I always change the game settings back to the overpowered all divine spells original myself, but it can still hold it's own without the druid spells. The druid spells are the gravy that makes it the best though. It's got it all - healing, can wear the best armour, helmets for defending against crits, use shields if desired, free 2-weapon fighting from day 1, can stealth if you need it, can actually find traps to at least avoid them (but not disarm them), can use DUHM to break open chests & doors, can buff to insane levels (iron skins!), has access to some of the best summoning spells and can kick mage ass with insect swarm. Literally a one man army!

    Proont
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,392
    Other (Please state)
    Most powerful? Illusionist/Thief.

    Proont
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,499
    Other (Please state)
    Totemic Druid 18 -> Fighter is close to heaven. The Summons are still really powerful until ToB and can crush nearly any opposition (tested in poverty run). Harm is another godlike bosskiller (combined with Magic Resistance). I love this class! ;)

    semiticgodProontBalrog99StummvonBordwehr
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,129
    Other (Please state)
    Pure dwarf berserker. There's not a single situation in any of the game where a pure dwarf berzerker is not being able to handle it. No anti-magic zones, not special encounters, no bosses, no certain enemies, no ring of bandit ambushes in BG1, no teleporting spiders with poison on hit, no nothing. Pretty much all classes have at least one situation where it becomes dangerous for them, but the dwarf berserker has none really. Sure, you're not invincible and you can be killed by certain combos of pure melee damage or strong mages, but properly equipped you can reliantly be expected to live through any and all situations throughout the entire series.

    It's not my favorite char at all, since I prefer less obviously "in-your-face" powerful characters myself (rogues, bards, T/Ms etc) that require a bit more planning and tactics, but it's power is undeniable. Negative saving throws already in BG1, you don't even need the claw of kazgaroth. With power items like ring of Gaxx, shield of harmony etc you can face the bane of most melee chars and win; mages. High APR with weapons that can damage through stoneskins etc while wearing all the MI and +savess items you can have will make you mostly immune vs mages. A human mage player could of course kill you, but not the AI.

    So if I had to pick just one, that would be it.

    A dwarf F/C or F/T, as well as, F/I gnome (it's not the spell slots from being specialized mage that makes them great, it's the saves that make gnome superior to all other F/Ms) come on as close second/third/fourth places.

    Grond0ProontStummvonBordwehrAerakar
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,410
    Other (Please state)
    Oddly enough, I'm inclined to say Fighter/Thief. Anything you can't kill straight up, you can evade. Status conditions can be defeated with potions (or Berserker rage if you dual-class). And if some encounter is way out of your league, you can still beat them with traps. See Invis enemies suck, but traps+potions+UAI mean you can still overpower most of them.

    kanisatha
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Fighter/Mage
    @Abi_Dalzim Yeah, and then add Mage spells. Now you have the best class, FMT!

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,392
    Other (Please state)
    @FinneousPJ Well, yes. The BEST multiclass is FMT. But I think the T/I can bring more raw damage to the table. Versatility > Power.

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Fighter/Mage
    @ThacoBell How silly. Power > all.

  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,699
    edited February 2018
    Other (Please state)
    ThacoBell said:

    @FinneousPJ Well, yes. The BEST multiclass is FMT. But I think the T/I can bring more raw damage to the table. Versatility > Power.

    FMT can do all the things an Illusionist/Thief can do; in addition, it can cast Necromancy spells, and get to use all weapons, helmets and shield even before UAI becomes available. It can also get 2 (or 3, if needed) pips in two-weapon style. Besides, the difference in THAC0 is just enormous, with the I/T remaining stuck at a base THAC0 of 10 (if I remember correctly), and struggling to hit high (more negative) AC enemies.

    And speaking of raw damage, I don't think the I/T can reach 10 APR (can anyone verify? I'm not exactly sure), even with Improved Haste, which the FMT can do easily. Two pips in the weapon proficiencies also add +2 to damage for FMT.

    And a FMT is undoubtedly much more versatile than an I/T, in every way you can think.

    The only advantages a I/T has over a FMT, are fast progression, more spell slots, and better spells and wands saves (being a Gnome).

    But then again, I've not said which one is more powerful among these two. Both have their individual strengths and weaknesses. My point is just that FMTs can do all the things an I/T can do, and most of them are done by the FMT probably in a better and more effective way.

    FinneousPJlolien
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    Don't overlook missing out on Level 9 (and HLA) spells.

    Pantalionsemiticgod
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,699
    Other (Please state)
    @joluv Will not the FMT get at least 1 or 2 level 9 spell slots? If so, that will be more than enough.

    By the way, how's the weather in Icewind Dale?

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,129
    Other (Please state)

    @joluv Will not the FMT get at least 1 or 2 level 9 spell slots? If so, that will be more than enough.

    Not unless you remove the cap, and if you take such things into consideration, then a berzerker/shadowdancer/mage would be the best character possible (the mage would still get specialist slots since you have a kit, but perhaps some mage kit could be added as well, as per your school of choice). Berserker rage, hide in plain sight, arcane spells, UAI, traps, GWW and hardiness etc etc. You'd be completely untouchable and still be able to dish out insane damage. A berserker/mage/priest of Lathander could be insanely OP as well, possibly with a mage specialization to get synchornization with the cleric domain spells and of course summons HLA's and all other goodies.

    But this is just ridiculous and we should stick to legal combos.

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    edited February 2018
    Pantalion said:

    Firetooth +3 (2) + Belm (2)

    I didn't know Firetooth +3 had 2 APR in melee. Very useful. Does Boomerang Dagger?

  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    edited February 2018
    Fighter/Mage
    Skatan said:

    @joluv Will not the FMT get at least 1 or 2 level 9 spell slots? If so, that will be more than enough.

    But this is just ridiculous and we should stick to legal combos.
    Offtopic, but natural 9 APR and negative saving throws can de bone legally. When I play BG, I use EEkeeper all the time, but I always make sure my chars are not overpowered - whether they acquire their means legally or not. So, for instance, I usually put items like the 25 str hammer in my magic bag, allowing it's useage only against bone golems and other ridicoulsy difficult to kill enemies. In my view, when BG feels like a paladin hammer / swirling ice sorceress diablo run in diablo 2, something somewhere went terrible wrong. Ironically, and my point, is that I would NEVER cheat a char as strong as it can get legally.

    Edit: I mean, yeah, if you are playing a no reload I get maxing your char out, and the challenge is to avoid making mistakes. But if you are not, and playing a char that is mathemathically unlikely to lose even if picking a fight with the ToB 5 simultanously, where is the fun? No challenge, no fun!

  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Illusionist/Thief
    joluv said:

    Pantalion said:

    Firetooth +3 (2) + Belm (2)

    I didn't know Firetooth +3 had 2 APR in melee. Very useful. Does Boomerang Dagger?
    Yes. There's also the +1 Throwing Dagger in SoD which apparently has a melee mode, making it an early bird 2 APR weapon that can only be wielded in the forehand.

    The Firetooth and B.Dagger get 2D4 base damage dice as well, making them mini piercing Bastard Swords.

    joluv
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,295
    edited February 2018
    Other (Please state)
    From LoB solo perspective (haven't played IWD):

    Dwarven Defender, that undispellable 93 DR and shorty throws are nice.
    Cavalier, that 88 DR and the best immunities are nice.
    Fighter/Mage, ability to do anything, and everything.

    Which is the most powerful? I don't know.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,699
    Other (Please state)
    Have a look at what I found. See this comment. It appears you can actually reach level 30/30/30 as a FMT in IWD:EE, which means a FMT can cast level 9 spells there! Now, that's a great thing!

    semiticgodStummvonBordwehrProontlolien
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,291
    Other (Please state)
    kensai 24/thief 25+

    UAI
    hardiness
    greater whirlwind
    assassination

    - with UAI you can use any item in the game, and get a solid AC, and can use spell scrolls
    - because of those 24 levels of fighter you will have some decent HP
    - and then with some select items ( like ring of gaxx thanks to it's invisibility and haste abilities ) you can go on a backstab frenzy with a huge amount of attacks per round ( if dual wielding ) plus there are also rings of invisibility and a crap load of potions of invisibility
    - also with 24 levels of kensai thats +8 to hit/ to damage with the emphasis on the to damage part, +8 to damage x5 back stab is an extra 40 damage per hit, not too shabby

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,392
    Other (Please state)

    Have a look at what I found. See this comment. It appears you can actually reach level 30/30/30 as a FMT in IWD:EE, which means a FMT can cast level 9 spells there! Now, that's a great thing!

    In IWD, yes. But not BG.

    semiticgodStummvonBordwehrProont
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,372
    Fighter/Mage
    I wouldn't rate high-level dual-classes very highly. They might be really excellent at the end of the game, but they're absolutely terrible for vast portions of the rest of the game. It's important for characters to be useful at all stages of the game.

    For me, the ideal character is a low-input, high-output character rather than a high-input, high-output character.

    booinyoureyesThacoBellBelgarathMTHFenghoang
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