That's interesting! Thanks for the advice @Skatan!
Will Mystic Theurge automatically give me new spells of new levels for my Sorcerer, or does it only give additional spell slots (like some Prestige Classes in NWN does)?
Also, assuming Druids and Clerics get a different pool of spells (am I right?), does that mean getting Mystic Theurge levels will give you access to that particular spell pool which your divine class is using?
Using this same logic, suppose a character has levels in Empyreal Sorcerer, Cleric as well as Druid, which gives them access to 2nd level spells of each type, does this mean taking Mystic Theurge then will give spells from all three spellbooks?
So I started playing this game, and am getting quite confused during character creation, basically because I never played tabletop RPGs and I am completely new to the Pathfinder system. I'm planning to play as an Empyreal Sorcerer/some form of Cleric/Mystic Theurge, and focus on Wisdom as the primary stat. How good is that? I heard Music Theurge gives you access to both arcane and divine spells all together, so it sounded pretty great, but how does it actually play? Also, what Cleric kit should I use in this combo? I want to play mainly as a spontaneous spellcaster (so I put 20 in Wisdom with a human, dumping Strength and Charisma to 8). Another thing that confuses me a lot is what feats I should choose. I'd appreciate any advice or tips!
We were just talking about mystic theurge. To be honest, I'm not impressed by it, you give up 3-4 caster levels from each class to get both. You'll be like sorcerer 4/cleric 3 before you can unlock the class. So you'll be 7th level and not have more than level 2 spells, and level 9-10 before you get level 3 spells. Your caster levels also going to be behind on both, so your spells will be weaker, too. It'll be brutal for a first time playthrough, as well. If you're dead set on it, go for it, just know that it'll be a long ways until a mystic theurge build really starts to shine.
That's interesting! Thanks for the advice @Skatan!
Will Mystic Theurge automatically give me new spells of new levels for my Sorcerer, or does it only give additional spell slots (like some Prestige Classes in NWN does)?
Also, assuming Druids and Clerics get a different pool of spells (am I right?), does that mean getting Mystic Theurge levels will give you access to that particular spell pool which your divine class is using?
Using this same logic, suppose a character has levels in Empyreal Sorcerer, Cleric as well as Druid, which gives them access to 2nd level spells of each type, does this mean taking Mystic Theurge then will give spells from all three spellbooks?
Pathfinder is a much better representation of PnP rules than NWN/NWN2, so yes, you gain extra spells. Clerics and druids do use different pools, and the Theurge gets whichever (or ranger/paladin/bard). You don't get spells from more than two spell books though.
There are a couple of ways to avoid MAD: cleric/empyreal sorcerer (wisdom), or sorcerer/fey druid (charisma).
I find it irritating that two of the NPCs are clerics, but there are no druids, paladins, or rangers.
Of course the advantage of going with Tristian rather than CHARNAME is he can sit on the bench until he reaches level 16, and is a 12/12 caster.
I find it irritating that two of the NPCs are clerics, but there are no druids, paladins, or rangers.
There is a Ranger NPC. The inquisitor's really similar to a cleric, so that leaves you with 3 divine casters, so there's a real imbalance there. I would have liked a Paladin and a pure arcane caster that wasn't tied to another NPC (Ya I know you can take the Reg and Octavia seperately, but they are kind of attached together).
So while Owl Cat looks at that save, I'm tinkering with a new build in my head I might try out. Maybe a Magus Eldritch Scion/Paladin/Dragon Disciple. Just do 2 Paladin levels and 3-4 Eldritch Scion levels. If Eldritch Scions can get dragon transformation from the dragon disciple class, I might push that, but otherwise, I'll probably only take 4-6 levels of disciple, and put most of the rest of the levels into Eldritch Scion. Maybe get at least enough Magus levels to wear medium armor. Probably do an Angelic Aasimar, with attributes something like 18/14/10/10/10/18.
We were just talking about mystic theurge. To be honest, I'm not impressed by it, you give up 3-4 caster levels from each class to get both. You'll be like sorcerer 4/cleric 3 before you can unlock the class. So you'll be 7th level and not have more than level 2 spells, and level 9-10 before you get level 3 spells. Your caster levels also going to be behind on both, so your spells will be weaker, too. It'll be brutal for a first time playthrough, as well. If you're dead set on it, go for it, just know that it'll be a long ways until a mystic theurge build really starts to shine.
My 2 cents is that a mystic theurge should not be your only cleric or your only arcane caster. I usually do the same in BG where even if I use Aerie I also use Anomen and Nalia/Imoen etc for SC cleric and mage. So, IMHO, that's my intention with setting the NPC on the path towards Mystic Theurge. But as said, I haven't come far into the game so dunno how much the higher levels of spells are needed vs versatility. I am also thinking when DLCs come, the level-cap might be increased and then you could perhaps keep leveling the mystic as either cleric or sorc to start moving towards higher level spells on top.
But @DrHappyAngry seem to be much more knowledgable than me, so I think you should probably listen to him more than me I don't mind making some mistakes though, just to learn from them.
The below is also a good comment, but as I said above, I hope I can mitigate that by having one other pure cleric (Harrim).
A mystic theurge is going to have plenty of spells, but they will be lower in levels compared to a pure cleric, precisely because you have to multiclass as both cleric and sorcerer to qualify. PK has slow levelling initially, my party has finished chapter one at level 4/5. That can be the difference between buffing your party with delay poison (single target) and communal delay poison (entire party), for example.
My 2 cents is that a mystic theurge should not be your only cleric or your only arcane caster.
Exactly. They are back-up casters. But you would never want two clerics in the party, so you wouldn't want Harrim and Tristian at the same time unless you multiclassed one or the other. Both, if CHARNAME is a cleric.
You could make Tristian sorc 18, or druid 18, rather than going mystic theurge. Shame he isn't lawful to turn him into a sensai monk.
But you would never want two clerics in the party, so you wouldn't want Harrim and Tristian at the same time unless you multiclassed one or the other.
I'm curious, why wouldn't you want two clerics? IMHO, but I am still at the end of chapter 1, two clerics = more healing = less resting. I know PF might be somewhat different, but in 3E and 3.5E clerics are really good, a lot better than in 2E IMHO.
But you would never want two clerics in the party, so you wouldn't want Harrim and Tristian at the same time unless you multiclassed one or the other.
I'm curious, why wouldn't you want two clerics? IMHO, but I am still at the end of chapter 1, two clerics = more healing = less resting. I know PF might be somewhat different, but in 3E and 3.5E clerics are really good, a lot better than in 2E IMHO.
In later chapters, one cleric have enough spell slots to heal everyone. Also bard can heal too and buff the party with haste, etc
One key difference between the Baldur's Gate games and Kingmaker, is how multiclassing is handled. In 2nd ed, since you level up both classes at the same time, you're only about 1 level behind a single class character until about the low teens. The gap opens up more at higher levels, but matters a lot less by then. In 3rd ed/pathfinder, since you have to alternate between them, you fall way behind early on.
If you know you're going to be fighting a lot of undead, 2 clerics rock, but not that optimal otherwise.
So I started up that Aasimar Eldritch Scion/Paladin last night. I picked the gold dragon bloodline. The whole time I'm thinking "This is over the top, no DM would allow this." Someone with Divine and Draconic heritage just seems ridiculous.
So I started up that Aasimar Eldritch Scion/Paladin last night. I picked the gold dragon bloodline. The whole time I'm thinking "This is over the top, no DM would allow this." Someone with Divine and Draconic heritage just seems ridiculous.
But you would never want two clerics in the party, so you wouldn't want Harrim and Tristian at the same time unless you multiclassed one or the other.
I'm curious, why wouldn't you want two clerics? IMHO, but I am still at the end of chapter 1, two clerics = more healing = less resting. I know PF might be somewhat different, but in 3E and 3.5E clerics are really good, a lot better than in 2E IMHO.
Inquisitors, bards, druids, alchemists, paladins, rangers all heal. And you don't win a fight if all you are doing is spamming heals.
And Tristian has a sucky armour class, so keeping him alive makes him more of a liability than an asset.
So I started up that Aasimar Eldritch Scion/Paladin last night. I picked the gold dragon bloodline. The whole time I'm thinking "This is over the top, no DM would allow this." Someone with Divine and Draconic heritage just seems ridiculous.
Why not? Everyone has 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents etc.
And why single out Aasimar? Anything that applies to them applies moreso to half elves and half orcs. The game explicitly has a companion with human, orc and draconic ancestry.
So I started up that Aasimar Eldritch Scion/Paladin last night. I picked the gold dragon bloodline. The whole time I'm thinking "This is over the top, no DM would allow this." Someone with Divine and Draconic heritage just seems ridiculous.
Why not? Everyone has 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents etc.
And why single out Aasimar? Anything that applies to them applies moreso to half elves and half orcs. The game explicitly has a companion with human, orc and draconic ancestry.
I agree, lets suppose that his father is an sorcerer of gold dragon lineage and his mother is an aasimar sorceress. Both loving each other is not that impossible. I still remember my silver dragon sorcerer who become a vampire long time ago. The DM allowed since everyone was in high level but he said that in a mid level campaign he will not allow. Also, he din't allowed the +AC bonus from vampire because dragon form + this bonus will make my character too hard to be hit. Also, we agreed to add an weakness to fire to my character and limit the mist form to only my body(not items), so i can use mist form to escape danger but not without any cost.
On PnP the DM can allow different rules, i honestly think that Dragons needs to be more deadly, in special ancient dragos. Think a little, if a party on Pathfinder kingmake in few years managed to go from lv 1 to lv 15, an ancient dragon should be able to do much more epic stuff. IMHO an ancient silver dragon should know every frost spell and should cast every cold spell as maximized and empowered version of the cold spell. He should be able to use magical items from his treasury. If the party wanna take out this legendary monster, i expect that they will do a lot of planning, will search a lot of scrolls, items, hire powerful mercenaries instead of slaying dragons like they are a common beastfolk...
I think part of it's just that I grew up in the brutal 2nd Ed days, where draconic and divine heritage was supposed to be really rare. Even having one of them could be considered power gaming, let alone having 2. I know they had resources for running dragons and half dragons back then, but not many people allowed them. I'm not that familiar with the more current happenings in pathfinder and d&d, but it seems like even if somebody had ancestors of both heritages, most likely only one would manifest as dominant. Keep in mind, this is a level 1 character, too.
And of course it's possible that somebody could have both bloodlines, but really improbable. But it is some good cheese.
So in a single evening I managed to set out and kill the stag lord. Once you have the hang of the game and know where stuff's at, you can really rush through that first act.
But you would never want two clerics in the party, so you wouldn't want Harrim and Tristian at the same time unless you multiclassed one or the other.
I'm curious, why wouldn't you want two clerics? IMHO, but I am still at the end of chapter 1, two clerics = more healing = less resting. I know PF might be somewhat different, but in 3E and 3.5E clerics are really good, a lot better than in 2E IMHO.
Inquisitors, bards, druids, alchemists, paladins, rangers all heal. And you don't win a fight if all you are doing is spamming heals.
And Tristian has a sucky armour class, so keeping him alive makes him more of a liability than an asset.
I doubt that my druid's healing would be somehow comparable to Tristian's channeling, though. He'd need to memorize healing spells in the first place (or waste money on scrolls), which I'd rather use for buffs and offense. And healing spells can't really compare to an aoe heal ability that doesn't require the healer to be nowhere near the target, because the radius is so big. Which is why so far I haven't had problems keeping Tristian alive & kicking. Harrim is terrible at channeling, which is why he's not exactly a replacement.
* Harrim's channelling heals exactly the same amount as Tristian's; * If you need to regularly spam-heal the whole party what is your tank doing? * There is one companion who can't be healed by channelling; * I agree that a druid (or inquisitor etc) can't substitute for ONE cleric in the party; * If you prefer Tristian as main cleric then there is no reason not to multi-class Harrim instead. He should make a passible ranger.
Channelling is simply based off cleric level. Equal level cleric = equal channelling. Tristian has selective channelling because of his (needlessly) high charisma, but I haven't really missed it on Harrim. If I use the heal channelling at all, it's usually after a fight to save time/resting.
One think that i din't liked on this game is the lack of possibility to create custom modules and modthe game. But IMHO is clearly the best RPG of the decade.
Aasimar generally aren't trueborn. It's more likely an Aasimar's parents were both human than not. Discernable heritage wax and vain with the generations. There could be any number of ancestors between the source and the manifestation.
What I am saying is that while unlikely to manifest both heritages at once it is not unfeasible that it could happen.
I would say charisma is probably the 2nd most important stat for a caster centric cleric. More charisma means more channels per day and it makes it harder for undead to save against the damage.
Aasimar generally aren't trueborn. It's more likely an Aasimar's parents were both human than not. Discernable heritage wax and vain with the generations. There could be any number of ancestors between the source and the manifestation.
What I am saying is that while unlikely to manifest both heritages at once it is not unfeasible that it could happen.
Some traits IRL that are insanely rare some times happens, light eyes are recessive and some people have heterochromia
Anyway IMHO they should have addee Dhampir; Aasimar can be played in a lot of similar games. Dhampir is the more unique of the tree possible races...
Well, if half=elves and half-orcs are possible, why not half-vampires? Although, having read Xanth, I am no longer surprised what D&D allows. Xanth has love spring that allow any two races to interbreed. Centaurs being a human-horse interbreeding, and so on. And once having drunk the spring, you have to breed with whatever is closest (and usually also has drunk from the spring, as they are usually not labeled as such.
Piers Anthony may be a very dirty old man, but nonetheless, nobody knew about him when I first read Xanth. As he has gotten older, he's gotten steadily perv-ier, writing stories about children having sex with older men or tricking older men into sex. And the less said about that the better.
Anyway IMHO they should have addee Dhampir; Aasimar can be played in a lot of similar games. Dhampir is the more unique of the tree possible races...
I don't know if they're in pahtfinder, but I'd have liked Tieflings or something similar, but Dhampir would've been interesting. Are dhampirs part of the core books in pathfinder?
Comments
Will Mystic Theurge automatically give me new spells of new levels for my Sorcerer, or does it only give additional spell slots (like some Prestige Classes in NWN does)?
Also, assuming Druids and Clerics get a different pool of spells (am I right?), does that mean getting Mystic Theurge levels will give you access to that particular spell pool which your divine class is using?
Using this same logic, suppose a character has levels in Empyreal Sorcerer, Cleric as well as Druid, which gives them access to 2nd level spells of each type, does this mean taking Mystic Theurge then will give spells from all three spellbooks?
There are a couple of ways to avoid MAD: cleric/empyreal sorcerer (wisdom), or sorcerer/fey druid (charisma).
I find it irritating that two of the NPCs are clerics, but there are no druids, paladins, or rangers.
Of course the advantage of going with Tristian rather than CHARNAME is he can sit on the bench until he reaches level 16, and is a 12/12 caster.
But @DrHappyAngry seem to be much more knowledgable than me, so I think you should probably listen to him more than me
The below is also a good comment, but as I said above, I hope I can mitigate that by having one other pure cleric (Harrim).
You could make Tristian sorc 18, or druid 18, rather than going mystic theurge. Shame he isn't lawful to turn him into a sensai monk.
If you know you're going to be fighting a lot of undead, 2 clerics rock, but not that optimal otherwise.
So I started up that Aasimar Eldritch Scion/Paladin last night. I picked the gold dragon bloodline. The whole time I'm thinking "This is over the top, no DM would allow this." Someone with Divine and Draconic heritage just seems ridiculous.
And Tristian has a sucky armour class, so keeping him alive makes him more of a liability than an asset.
Why not? Everyone has 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents etc.
And why single out Aasimar? Anything that applies to them applies moreso to half elves and half orcs. The game explicitly has a companion with human, orc and draconic ancestry.
On PnP the DM can allow different rules, i honestly think that Dragons needs to be more deadly, in special ancient dragos. Think a little, if a party on Pathfinder kingmake in few years managed to go from lv 1 to lv 15, an ancient dragon should be able to do much more epic stuff. IMHO an ancient silver dragon should know every frost spell and should cast every cold spell as maximized and empowered version of the cold spell. He should be able to use magical items from his treasury. If the party wanna take out this legendary monster, i expect that they will do a lot of planning, will search a lot of scrolls, items, hire powerful mercenaries instead of slaying dragons like they are a common beastfolk...
And of course it's possible that somebody could have both bloodlines, but really improbable. But it is some good cheese.
So in a single evening I managed to set out and kill the stag lord. Once you have the hang of the game and know where stuff's at, you can really rush through that first act.
* If you need to regularly spam-heal the whole party what is your tank doing?
* There is one companion who can't be healed by channelling;
* I agree that a druid (or inquisitor etc) can't substitute for ONE cleric in the party;
* If you prefer Tristian as main cleric then there is no reason not to multi-class Harrim instead. He should make a passible ranger.
What I am saying is that while unlikely to manifest both heritages at once it is not unfeasible that it could happen.
Anyway IMHO they should have addee Dhampir; Aasimar can be played in a lot of similar games. Dhampir is the more unique of the tree possible races...
Piers Anthony may be a very dirty old man, but nonetheless, nobody knew about him when I first read Xanth. As he has gotten older, he's gotten steadily perv-ier, writing stories about children having sex with older men or tricking older men into sex. And the less said about that the better.