Looks like the given feedback on soundtracks, background sounds, PC soundsets and NPC character voices will be used to further improve their upcoming games.
Hey, from within the game, how do you get the info that allows you to find the third key in the House at the Edge of Time? Or does this info even exist? I do remember that Linzi says something about it in her cutscene right before she dies, but I don't think it was specific.
In the end, this was something that I googled, and my current sense is that the third key is really difficult to find without outside info, so I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
I'm now in the Ravaged Capital, and boy is the endgame too long.
Hey, from within the game, how do you get the info that allows you to find the third key in the House at the Edge of Time? Or does this info even exist? I do remember that Linzi says something about it in her cutscene right before she dies, but I don't think it was specific.
In the end, this was something that I googled, and my current sense is that the third key is really difficult to find without outside info, so I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
I'm now in the Ravaged Capital, and boy is the endgame too long.
Please. But story details under spoiler tag(edit your post), about the third key, an YT video.
It's quite simple once you know. As the video shows, you go to that room in the basement, walk through the first part of the fog with your lantern equipped, then unequip your lantern and continue walking through the last bank of fog.
As well as what you hear from Linzi, the other clue is from when you enter the first world in the Womb of Lamashtu. In both that area and in the House, there are two parallel realities and you move from one to the other by walking through sections of fog without the lantern equipped. The two areas both look identical but they have different encounters and items, and some sub-areas you can only enter in one of the realities.
The simplest way I approach it to make sure I've explored everything is first equip the lantern so you do not switch between realities. I explore everything possible with the lantern equipped - let's call this reality A. Then, once I'm done exploring everything I can in reality A, I unequip the lantern and walk through a section of fog. This transports me to reality B. Now I re-equip the lantern, which prevents me from switching back to reality A, and explore everything I can in reality B. By doing this, I managed to make it through and find everything I needed.
Saying that, while I managed to find all the keys in the House at the Edge of Time, I still couldn't find a way of opening one of the doors on the upper floor (the easternmost door) so I couldn't explore all that area fully. Not sure why, either I missed something or there must be a section of fog somewhere that you have to cross without the lantern that gets you into that area. But that wasn't essential anyway to complete the map.
I'm still struggling to come up with another build for my next playthrough. Attempt is solo no-reload and nothing else seems to stack up with all the pieces needed when I think about the encounters to face and how I enjoy playing.
I've been experimenting with empyreal sorcerer, sage sorcerer, grenadier, monk, rogue and aldori defender builds. All with various mix-ins. Biggest issues are around getting Will saves high enough to be able to beat DC35 checks with just 5% chance of failure (i.e. getting Will to 34). And for spellcasters, how to survive to level 6 and the amount of micro needed later; for melee classes, how to do major AoE elemental damage to deal with the largest battles.
I'm rapidly not liking sorcerers: they're too much cardboard cutouts, they require too much babysitting, and anything they can do I just end up thinking a kineticist would do 1000 times better, so why bother. So I definitely want to play a melee class.
The most fun build I experimented with was Thug 4/Traditional Monk 16. Absolute carnage from Dazzling Display along with Trip Style Strike (Leg Sweep I think it was). Something like 6 APR and uncountable attacks of opportunity every round. But then I started to test the build (in my mind) and I came up with this dilemma: how would this build deal with a Mandrago Swarm? And I'm stuck on that, so this is an an unfeasible build if I can't think of an answer.
Gonna have to be Sword Saint I think. That was the class I most liked and played before Kineticist, and it's the only alternative class I can come up with that could truly handle the challenge.
Ok. So from what you say, it appears that there is NO info within the game for how the key is found, it's just trial and error. That sounds a bit strange -- like some of the puzzles in the game, where you are really expected to have meta-game information.
Some of the writing in P:K is really, really strange, in other words.
It's quite simple once you know. As the video shows, you go to that room in the basement, walk through the first part of the fog with your lantern equipped, then unequip your lantern and continue walking through the last bank of fog.
As well as what you hear from Linzi, the other clue is from when you enter the first world in the Womb of Lamashtu. In both that area and in the House, there are two parallel realities and you move from one to the other by walking through sections of fog without the lantern equipped. The two areas both look identical but they have different encounters and items, and some sub-areas you can only enter in one of the realities.
The simplest way I approach it to make sure I've explored everything is first equip the lantern so you do not switch between realities. I explore everything possible with the lantern equipped - let's call this reality A. Then, once I'm done exploring everything I can in reality A, I unequip the lantern and walk through a section of fog. This transports me to reality B. Now I re-equip the lantern, which prevents me from switching back to reality A, and explore everything I can in reality B. By doing this, I managed to make it through and find everything I needed.
Saying that, while I managed to find all the keys in the House at the Edge of Time, I still couldn't find a way of opening one of the doors on the upper floor (the easternmost door) so I couldn't explore all that area fully. Not sure why, either I missed something or there must be a section of fog somewhere that you have to cross without the lantern that gets you into that area. But that wasn't essential anyway to complete the map.
But what you say there does not hold for the third key. It is not in Reality A or Reality B (both containing the basement plus 1st and 2nd floor). It is in Reality C (or a sub-arae, as you say), a very small space accessible only from a very specific spot from one of the two realities, and only by going in a certain direction -- and apparently there's no way from within the game to glean this information. I'd say this is both very poor and very unkind from the game developers. I mean, there are too many spots -- for me anyway -- to just do this kind of stuff by trial and error. Also, it serves no story purpose, it's just a huge, huge waste of time. I'm all for puzzles, don't get me wrong, but I'm not for mindless walking around.
As you, say "It's quite simple once you know." But that was not my point at all. The point is, can you find this out without resorting to googling.
Incidentally, I finished the game yesterday. It's a gem, but with some very serious flaws. A really paradoxical game in this sense. Some of the writing is just awful, but there's a lot of great stuff, too. No replay value at all, for me anyway, so that was it. (The same with Deadfire, absolutely no replay value.)
If there's going to be another title from the same developers, I'm interested, but cautiously so.
Incidentally, I finished the game yesterday. It's a gem, but with some very serious flaws. A really paradoxical game in this sense. Some of the writing is just awful, but there's a lot of great stuff, too. No replay value at all, for me anyway, so that was it. (The same with Deadfire, absolutely no replay value.)
To each their own. This is why it's good there are so many choices in games available. For me, PoE2 and P:K are my go-to games now for replay. It's why I no longer care that much about the 2.6 patch because BG is no longer my go-to game for replay. I'm pretty much tired of the BG games, and it's PoE2 and P:K that I will be replaying over the next decade or more.
In general, I am not interested in replaying games. I tend to view them as (interactive) movies, and once the story is over, the game has to be pretty damn good to be worth returning to. I almost never watch movies more than once, either.
Baldur's Gate 2 and NetHack are my only exceptions to this -- they are both so charming that they feel worth returning to. For a little while, I thought SoD might be worth replaying, but it wasn't in the end, even if M'Khiin is truly great.
Having said that, both Deadfire and P:K were really good, once. The one question I would still like to have the answer to (from developers) is whether P:K is intended as a parody or not. I mean, much of the writing is so poor and so full of cliche that it almost has to be. It did work, though, even if I admired Deadfire's somewhat literary ambition a whole lot more.
In general, I am not interested in replaying games. I tend to view them as (interactive) movies, and once the story is over, the game has to be pretty damn good to be worth returning to. I almost never watch movies more than once, either.
Baldur's Gate 2 and NetHack are my only exceptions to this -- they are both so charming that they feel worth returning to. For a little while, I thought SoD might be worth replaying, but it wasn't in the end, even if M'Khiin is truly great.
Having said that, both Deadfire and P:K were really good, once. The one question I would still like to have the answer to (from developers) is whether P:K is intended as a parody or not. I mean, much of the writing is so poor and so full of cliche that it almost has to be. It did work, though, even if I admired Deadfire's somewhat literary ambition a whole lot more.
Interesting. Honestly, I am very much this way too. But for me it was BG1 that I kept going back to for replay, and now it is PoE2 and P:K (though I agree that P:K has some glaring weaknesses, and as such my expectation is that it will be Owlcat's next Pathfinder game that will in actuality be a replay game for me).
Guys, I need help. I'm at the season of the bloom. Edit: Ignore, apparently it's supposed to be kited. I used every scroll of fireball and flask of acid I had, but it's down. On to the other side.
Im where I have to split up my party and then get attacked by a greated treant-like owlbear. That animal is level 18 and I am level 10. It's crits take away half my life and even with max buffs it hits too often for me to even keep healing myself. It's just not possible? Tried many times, but this is rather boring and I'm about to rage quit the game and never look back.
I am a vivi with around 43 AC, I got Val with about 40ish, nok-nok, octavia with apparently completely wrong spells, Linzi as pure bard and tristian as a theurge.
Gawd, it always annoys the crap out of me when games make these kind of difficulty spikes. It's not like I can revert and learn new spells :-/ And it's never possible to actually manage to inspect the creature before you fight it, so I guess I have to google its vulnerabilities.
It´s curious, This game and PoE2 are my choices of replay, and I think they will be for next years (Until came Solasta or G3, I hope). I retake the game every few months and start again, with the new DLC or trying some mods. Even without them, there are lots of classes to try, different companion combinations and several endings. Even the kingdom management makes me start again, but I happen to like strategy games, I know it is not the most popular feature of the game.
The story itself is not the forte of the game, but it has its moments (Nyrissa interventions, for instance). And they should have let you recruit Nok-nok before in the game.
haha, yes! My charname managed to get in a few sneak attacks before Val died and then he died too quickly after that, but the beast was down to half its health or even less. Octavia ran around and kept using any and all scroll I had because charname had the wand of fire arc and fireball, hehe.. I think I had about 12 scrolls of fireball and she used most of them and also chucking a potion in between every now and then. I realzied though that regular magic missiles did decent damage, so she had about 4 of those as well. Had we started from full HP it would have taken ages, but 7D6 sneak attacks had chipped away enough for it to be manageble, luckily.
I’m bored, let’s discuss some builds and strategy.
I’ll share one to kick off. This is my Aldori Defender build.
Key Strengths: (1) “Can’t Touch This” AC (2) Virtually max BAB (3) Outstanding weapon damage (4) Dazzling Display AOO carnage
Race: Any (but DEX bonus preferred; Halfling also works well for Cautious Fighter)
Classes: Aldori Defender (8), Thug (1), Traditional Monk (1), Duelist (10)
Alignment: any Lawful
Base stats (pre-racial bonuses):
STR 7
DEX 17
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 16
CHA 7
All level-up points go to DEX. CON & WIS can be switched around if you prefer.
Skills: Mobility to rank 3, Persuasion rank-up at every level (CHA penalty quickly irrelevant), rest as you see fit. You get 3 (4 if Human) skill points at every level and with max DEX this can be your Stealth & Trickery guy as well as Persuasion.
Class Progression:
1: Aldori Defender 1
2: Thug 1
3: Aldori Defender 2
4: Traditional Monk 1
5-10: Aldori Defender 3-8
11-20: Duelist 1-10
Selection of early feats:
1: WF Dueling Sword
2: (Weapon Finesse for free)
3: Slashing Grace, Aldori Dueling Mastery
4: Crane Style
Other stuff to take as you prefer (you’ll be getting a feat every level until 11): Weapon Specialisation, Improved Crit, Crane Wing, Dazzling Display, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes, Combat Mobility (needed for Duelist, take at level 10).
This is an unarmoured fighter, just add Dueling Sword and you’re good to go. You get AC from DEX, INT and WIS as well as from Aldori Defender & Duelist level progression. You also get Shield AC from Aldori Dueling Mastery without ever using a shield. Add in armour (bracers), Natural Armour (amulet or boots), Deflection (ring), and Dodge (robes) and you will have near enough max possible AC with this build. Make sure you switch “Fighting defensively” on at level 4: this will get you 10 more AC (including Crane Wing and Steel Net bonuses) and you don’t even have any to-hit penalty once you reach Aldori Defender 7 (-2 penalty before that).
To go with your tankiness, you get BAB 19 and +10 damage per hit from the Duelist levels. You will have at least 4 APR (maybe more with Haste / speed weapons) and tons of AOOs when you activate Dazzling Display thanks to Combat Reflexes and max DEX.
Strategy is about as agricultural as you can get. March straight up to the enemy. Dazzling Display. Attack anything still standing. Rinse and repeat. Enjoy.
Other stuff you could do with this build if you want:
- Take Aldori Swordlord prestige class instead of Duelist if you like that
- You don't need the 8th Aldori Defender level, so can take Thug 2 for Evasion if you want, or Vivi 1 for mutagen and more sneak attack
- Take Combat Expertise and Disarm feats to capitalise on your Aldori Defender level 3 ability
- Take Combat Expertise, Trip, Fury's Fall, Agile Manouvers if you want more crowd control and AOOs
Any mod who adds spells like Flesh to Stone, Stop Time, Wish(even if limited to a small list), wall of suppression, Wooden Phalanx, Ride the Lightning, and other cool stuff????
Edit the 2nd: All of these add stuff that are in the PnP version with the exception of Eldritch Arcana has homebrew stuff that can be turned off and I think is turned off by default.
I’ll share one to kick off. This is my Aldori Defender build.
Key Strengths: (1) “Can’t Touch This” AC (2) Virtually max BAB (3) Outstanding weapon damage (4) Dazzling Display AOO carnage
Race: Any (but DEX bonus preferred; Halfling also works well for Cautious Fighter)
Classes: Aldori Defender (8), Thug (1), Traditional Monk (1), Duelist (10)
Alignment: any Lawful
Base stats (pre-racial bonuses):
STR 7
DEX 17
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 16
CHA 7
All level-up points go to DEX. CON & WIS can be switched around if you prefer.
Skills: Mobility to rank 3, Persuasion rank-up at every level (CHA penalty quickly irrelevant), rest as you see fit. You get 3 (4 if Human) skill points at every level and with max DEX this can be your Stealth & Trickery guy as well as Persuasion.
Class Progression:
1: Aldori Defender 1
2: Thug 1
3: Aldori Defender 2
4: Traditional Monk 1
5-10: Aldori Defender 3-8
11-20: Duelist 1-10
Selection of early feats:
1: WF Dueling Sword
2: (Weapon Finesse for free)
3: Slashing Grace, Aldori Dueling Mastery
4: Crane Style
Other stuff to take as you prefer (you’ll be getting a feat every level until 11): Weapon Specialisation, Improved Crit, Crane Wing, Dazzling Display, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes, Combat Mobility (needed for Duelist, take at level 10).
This is an unarmoured fighter, just add Dueling Sword and you’re good to go. You get AC from DEX, INT and WIS as well as from Aldori Defender & Duelist level progression. You also get Shield AC from Aldori Dueling Mastery without ever using a shield. Add in armour (bracers), Natural Armour (amulet or boots), Deflection (ring), and Dodge (robes) and you will have near enough max possible AC with this build. Make sure you switch “Fighting defensively” on at level 4: this will get you 10 more AC (including Crane Wing and Steel Net bonuses) and you don’t even have any to-hit penalty once you reach Aldori Defender 7 (-2 penalty before that).
To go with your tankiness, you get BAB 19 and +10 damage per hit from the Duelist levels. You will have at least 4 APR (maybe more with Haste / speed weapons) and tons of AOOs when you activate Dazzling Display thanks to Combat Reflexes and max DEX.
Strategy is about as agricultural as you can get. March straight up to the enemy. Dazzling Display. Attack anything still standing. Rinse and repeat. Enjoy.
Have you tried it and what was the outcome on AC say at levels 10 and 20? I did some testing some time ago (before I actually played the game I spend many hours just cheating levels on characters and leveling them up for fun) and found that spells provide a better AC buff than warrior classes alone. I guess you can pump UMD and use scroll or rely on potions, but I'm far from an expert. My current Vivi (DEX) with some AC from one level of CHA-Monk (mutagen DEX gives minus to WIS) has better AC than Valerie when buffed. He's from from perfect but reached around 43 AC at level 10 + the AC from Fight Defensively and Crane style in Melee. Also has displacement for 50% miss chance of enemies. Thanks to Mutagen DEX adding both natural armor and DEX buffs that stack with other sources affecting the same, there's little overlap. He's using bracers of armor +5 and ring of deflection currently, I think that's his only source of AC from items.
I think I really need to read up on this dazzling display! I haven't ever used it. Val has pretty high CHA and Persuasion, perhaps she can use it to trigger AOO from charname and Nok. Interesting!
EDIT: Btw, I did experiment a bit with different kinds of Magus/Duelist builds using ie 1+ level of Aldori defender for dueling sword etc.
It’s a build I have experimented with through the first couple of chapters rather than played through til the end. I’ve also used the editor mod to give max XP to various builds to see how I would level them up through the game.
As for AC – you would do well to beat the AC of this build through any combination! Of course it depends on what equipment you manage to get hold of. Using typical equipment you would have at these levels, the AC at level 5, 10 and 20 would be as follows.
Level 5: 35 AC (10 base + 6 DEX + 4 WIS + 1 Dodge + 1 Deflection + 4 Crane Style + 4 Armour + 2 Shield + 2 Natural Armour + 1 Aldori Defender bonus). Assumed equipment that gets this is +2 DEX belt, +2 WIS headband, Tartuccio’s Ring, Wand of Mage Armour, Barkskin potion. Completely standard equipment you would definitely have. You can add more AC even at level 5 with for example Shield of Faith potion or spell, Cat’s Grace & Owl’s Wisdom spells but I have not assumed those.
Level 10: 45 AC (10 base + 7 DEX + 5 WIS + 1 Dodge + 2 Deflection + 8 Crane Style & Wing + 4 Armour + 2 Shield + 2 Natural Armour + 2 Aldori Defender bonus + 2 Steel Net). Assumed equipment is +4 DEX belt (or Cat’s Grace spell), +4 WIS headband (or Owl’s Wisdom spell), Ring of Protection +2, Wand of Mage Amour, Barkskin potion or Amulet of Natural Armour +2. Again all totally standard stuff you would have by this stage.
Level 20: 82 AC (10 base + 12 DEX + 8 WIS + 7 INT + 6 Dodge + 5 Insight + 5 Deflection + 8 Crane Style & Wing + 8 Armour + 2 Shield + 4 Natural Armour + 5 Aldori Defender & Duelist bonuses + 2 Steel Net). This is assuming that top equipment has been acquired: +8 Belt of Physical Perfection, +8 Hat of Mental Perfection, Ring of Circumstances for +2 to DEX, INT & WIS, Robe of the Protector, Bracers of Armour +8, Ring of Protection +5, Manticore Boots, Knurly Witch Amulet.
This is all standard/permanent AC bonuses only. You can squeeze more, e.g. the 4th bonus from Ring of Circumstance, Haste for another +1, Reduce Person for another +2. There could also be team member bonuses (e.g. bard songs) but they have all been ignored. Halfling or Aasimar races would add another +3/+4. You don’t need all these additionals anyway when you already have 82 AC & 68 touch AC, but it would be possible to get up to around 90 AC if required with this build.
If playing solo then UMD skill is a must (that’s why I like Humans: with 4 skill points per level you can max Perception, Trickery, UMD & Persuasion). That allows you to add Haste & Displacement from wands whenever needed.
Dazzling Display is great but you need the Thug level to trigger the AOOs from Frightening. Otherwise opponents are just Shaken (which is still good, but doesn't trigger AOO). So Valerie would need a single Thug level and Weapon Focus + Dazzling Display feats. With those, her high CHA and if you keep pumping Persuasion, she would do this very effectively. Also worth taking Skill Focus Persuasion and Intimidating Prowess to really go all the way with this tactic!
Thanks, excellent breakdown @Jaheiras_Witness! The theorycrafting in this game is almost unparalleled. Perhaps I'll end up somewhere close to that with my guy, who though not getting AC from three sources of STATS and the Duelist bonues, can make up for it with spells and a higher natural armor (from Mutagen which stacks with ie barkskin and the likes). Let's see. In the end though, I've tended to focus a bit more on the offensive side getting 6 APR, three with Full BAB, so it's not an all-in AC build. But Wings spell, shield, smaller person etc is used for all tough fights with Haste.
Btw, there's no Improved/greater haste in this game it seems. Pity, would have been great to have a spell that also gave the off-hand another attack.
Yeah, totally. 82 AC is more than you need, even on Unfair. 60-70 AC is plenty, so it gives you some leeway to do things differently or not be so laser focused on maxing AC always. Basically you're only ever getting hit on a 20 for the vast majority of the game, so you can relax and be comfortable that you have a top tier tank.
But this character build is much more than a tank (only being a tank is crap and I don't go for one-dimensional builds). You also have a vicious damage dealer with max BAB, +10 damage per hit from Duelist levels on top of every other damage bonus from DEX, weapon bonuses and specialisation, and who crowd controls / can do tons of AOO himself every round from Dazzling Display with Frightening.
What this character cannot do is elemental or AoE damage. And you are restricted to Dueling Sword as a weapon, so offensively it is a one-trick pony.
Btw, there's no Improved/greater haste in this game it seems. Pity, would have been great to have a spell that also gave the off-hand another attack.
Improved Haste is pretty much a BG2 thing, when it comes to RPGs. It's not in PnP DD, for instance. I for one am glad that it isn't in the game, because the DD/PK rules in general suffer from the fact that a combination of haste on your own party and slow on the enemies is already way too powerful.
Btw, there's no Improved/greater haste in this game it seems. Pity, would have been great to have a spell that also gave the off-hand another attack.
Improved Haste is pretty much a BG2 thing, when it comes to RPGs. It's not in PnP DD, for instance. I for one am glad that it isn't in the game, because the DD/PK rules in general suffer from the fact that a combination of haste on your own party and slow on the enemies is already way too powerful.
Could be countered with adding "Personal" to it so that only really mages and the likes can use it and since their BAB progression is lower, it would make them kinda on par with fighters and not surpass them. A fighter with UMD could potentially use any scrolls, but that's fair game IMHO.
Yeah, why not. Don't see it as being necessary, though, but why not.
The thing with cRPGs and spells tends to be that you only ever use a few, certainly a lot fewer than in PnP, because a cRPG is always so much simpler and shallower than a proper PnP. For instance, I just finished P:K and basically the mage spells I found myself using were haste, slow, animal growth, mirror image, legendary proportions, greater invisibility, displacement and that's about it. Yes, essentially no damage spells at all, especially at higher levels -- there was simply no need. Also, some potentially excellent damage or death spells suffered from unbelievably bad design in the sense that they had a short range but very large area, meaning that you couldn't cast them without hurting your party or endangering the caster in a serious way.
Comments
Looks like the given feedback on soundtracks, background sounds, PC soundsets and NPC character voices will be used to further improve their upcoming games.
In the end, this was something that I googled, and my current sense is that the third key is really difficult to find without outside info, so I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
I'm now in the Ravaged Capital, and boy is the endgame too long.
Please. But story details under spoiler tag(edit your post), about the third key, an YT video.
As well as what you hear from Linzi, the other clue is from when you enter the first world in the Womb of Lamashtu. In both that area and in the House, there are two parallel realities and you move from one to the other by walking through sections of fog without the lantern equipped. The two areas both look identical but they have different encounters and items, and some sub-areas you can only enter in one of the realities.
The simplest way I approach it to make sure I've explored everything is first equip the lantern so you do not switch between realities. I explore everything possible with the lantern equipped - let's call this reality A. Then, once I'm done exploring everything I can in reality A, I unequip the lantern and walk through a section of fog. This transports me to reality B. Now I re-equip the lantern, which prevents me from switching back to reality A, and explore everything I can in reality B. By doing this, I managed to make it through and find everything I needed.
Saying that, while I managed to find all the keys in the House at the Edge of Time, I still couldn't find a way of opening one of the doors on the upper floor (the easternmost door) so I couldn't explore all that area fully. Not sure why, either I missed something or there must be a section of fog somewhere that you have to cross without the lantern that gets you into that area. But that wasn't essential anyway to complete the map.
I've been experimenting with empyreal sorcerer, sage sorcerer, grenadier, monk, rogue and aldori defender builds. All with various mix-ins. Biggest issues are around getting Will saves high enough to be able to beat DC35 checks with just 5% chance of failure (i.e. getting Will to 34). And for spellcasters, how to survive to level 6 and the amount of micro needed later; for melee classes, how to do major AoE elemental damage to deal with the largest battles.
I'm rapidly not liking sorcerers: they're too much cardboard cutouts, they require too much babysitting, and anything they can do I just end up thinking a kineticist would do 1000 times better, so why bother. So I definitely want to play a melee class.
The most fun build I experimented with was Thug 4/Traditional Monk 16. Absolute carnage from Dazzling Display along with Trip Style Strike (Leg Sweep I think it was). Something like 6 APR and uncountable attacks of opportunity every round. But then I started to test the build (in my mind) and I came up with this dilemma: how would this build deal with a Mandrago Swarm? And I'm stuck on that, so this is an an unfeasible build if I can't think of an answer.
Gonna have to be Sword Saint I think. That was the class I most liked and played before Kineticist, and it's the only alternative class I can come up with that could truly handle the challenge.
Some of the writing in P:K is really, really strange, in other words.
As you, say "It's quite simple once you know." But that was not my point at all. The point is, can you find this out without resorting to googling.
If there's going to be another title from the same developers, I'm interested, but cautiously so.
Baldur's Gate 2 and NetHack are my only exceptions to this -- they are both so charming that they feel worth returning to. For a little while, I thought SoD might be worth replaying, but it wasn't in the end, even if M'Khiin is truly great.
Having said that, both Deadfire and P:K were really good, once. The one question I would still like to have the answer to (from developers) is whether P:K is intended as a parody or not. I mean, much of the writing is so poor and so full of cliche that it almost has to be. It did work, though, even if I admired Deadfire's somewhat literary ambition a whole lot more.
I am a vivi with around 43 AC, I got Val with about 40ish, nok-nok, octavia with apparently completely wrong spells, Linzi as pure bard and tristian as a theurge.
Gawd, it always annoys the crap out of me when games make these kind of difficulty spikes. It's not like I can revert and learn new spells :-/ And it's never possible to actually manage to inspect the creature before you fight it, so I guess I have to google its vulnerabilities.
It´s curious, This game and PoE2 are my choices of replay, and I think they will be for next years (Until came Solasta or G3, I hope). I retake the game every few months and start again, with the new DLC or trying some mods. Even without them, there are lots of classes to try, different companion combinations and several endings. Even the kingdom management makes me start again, but I happen to like strategy games, I know it is not the most popular feature of the game.
The story itself is not the forte of the game, but it has its moments (Nyrissa interventions, for instance). And they should have let you recruit Nok-nok before in the game.
haha, yes! My charname managed to get in a few sneak attacks before Val died and then he died too quickly after that, but the beast was down to half its health or even less. Octavia ran around and kept using any and all scroll I had because charname had the wand of fire arc and fireball, hehe.. I think I had about 12 scrolls of fireball and she used most of them and also chucking a potion in between every now and then. I realzied though that regular magic missiles did decent damage, so she had about 4 of those as well. Had we started from full HP it would have taken ages, but 7D6 sneak attacks had chipped away enough for it to be manageble, luckily.
I’ll share one to kick off. This is my Aldori Defender build.
Key Strengths: (1) “Can’t Touch This” AC (2) Virtually max BAB (3) Outstanding weapon damage (4) Dazzling Display AOO carnage
Race: Any (but DEX bonus preferred; Halfling also works well for Cautious Fighter)
Classes: Aldori Defender (8), Thug (1), Traditional Monk (1), Duelist (10)
Alignment: any Lawful
Base stats (pre-racial bonuses):
STR 7
DEX 17
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 16
CHA 7
All level-up points go to DEX. CON & WIS can be switched around if you prefer.
Skills: Mobility to rank 3, Persuasion rank-up at every level (CHA penalty quickly irrelevant), rest as you see fit. You get 3 (4 if Human) skill points at every level and with max DEX this can be your Stealth & Trickery guy as well as Persuasion.
Class Progression:
1: Aldori Defender 1
2: Thug 1
3: Aldori Defender 2
4: Traditional Monk 1
5-10: Aldori Defender 3-8
11-20: Duelist 1-10
Selection of early feats:
1: WF Dueling Sword
2: (Weapon Finesse for free)
3: Slashing Grace, Aldori Dueling Mastery
4: Crane Style
Other stuff to take as you prefer (you’ll be getting a feat every level until 11): Weapon Specialisation, Improved Crit, Crane Wing, Dazzling Display, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes, Combat Mobility (needed for Duelist, take at level 10).
This is an unarmoured fighter, just add Dueling Sword and you’re good to go. You get AC from DEX, INT and WIS as well as from Aldori Defender & Duelist level progression. You also get Shield AC from Aldori Dueling Mastery without ever using a shield. Add in armour (bracers), Natural Armour (amulet or boots), Deflection (ring), and Dodge (robes) and you will have near enough max possible AC with this build. Make sure you switch “Fighting defensively” on at level 4: this will get you 10 more AC (including Crane Wing and Steel Net bonuses) and you don’t even have any to-hit penalty once you reach Aldori Defender 7 (-2 penalty before that).
To go with your tankiness, you get BAB 19 and +10 damage per hit from the Duelist levels. You will have at least 4 APR (maybe more with Haste / speed weapons) and tons of AOOs when you activate Dazzling Display thanks to Combat Reflexes and max DEX.
Strategy is about as agricultural as you can get. March straight up to the enemy. Dazzling Display. Attack anything still standing. Rinse and repeat. Enjoy.
- Take Aldori Swordlord prestige class instead of Duelist if you like that
- You don't need the 8th Aldori Defender level, so can take Thug 2 for Evasion if you want, or Vivi 1 for mutagen and more sneak attack
- Take Combat Expertise and Disarm feats to capitalise on your Aldori Defender level 3 ability
- Take Combat Expertise, Trip, Fury's Fall, Agile Manouvers if you want more crowd control and AOOs
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/
I am not sure about those spells but you can try to find something you like in there.
When searched "spell", literally only portrait appeared... Yep. Looks like mod spells into the game is not easy.
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/129
Edit: The mod that adds the Arcanist Class adds Flesh to Stone
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/140
You may also want to use Call of the Wild and Advanced Martial Arts to add a lot more classes, feats, and spells to the game.
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/112
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/82
Edit the 2nd: All of these add stuff that are in the PnP version with the exception of Eldritch Arcana has homebrew stuff that can be turned off and I think is turned off by default.
Quote in spoilers
Have you tried it and what was the outcome on AC say at levels 10 and 20? I did some testing some time ago (before I actually played the game I spend many hours just cheating levels on characters and leveling them up for fun) and found that spells provide a better AC buff than warrior classes alone. I guess you can pump UMD and use scroll or rely on potions, but I'm far from an expert. My current Vivi (DEX) with some AC from one level of CHA-Monk (mutagen DEX gives minus to WIS) has better AC than Valerie when buffed. He's from from perfect but reached around 43 AC at level 10 + the AC from Fight Defensively and Crane style in Melee. Also has displacement for 50% miss chance of enemies. Thanks to Mutagen DEX adding both natural armor and DEX buffs that stack with other sources affecting the same, there's little overlap. He's using bracers of armor +5 and ring of deflection currently, I think that's his only source of AC from items.
I think I really need to read up on this dazzling display! I haven't ever used it. Val has pretty high CHA and Persuasion, perhaps she can use it to trigger AOO from charname and Nok. Interesting!
EDIT: Btw, I did experiment a bit with different kinds of Magus/Duelist builds using ie 1+ level of Aldori defender for dueling sword etc.
As for AC – you would do well to beat the AC of this build through any combination! Of course it depends on what equipment you manage to get hold of. Using typical equipment you would have at these levels, the AC at level 5, 10 and 20 would be as follows.
Level 5: 35 AC (10 base + 6 DEX + 4 WIS + 1 Dodge + 1 Deflection + 4 Crane Style + 4 Armour + 2 Shield + 2 Natural Armour + 1 Aldori Defender bonus). Assumed equipment that gets this is +2 DEX belt, +2 WIS headband, Tartuccio’s Ring, Wand of Mage Armour, Barkskin potion. Completely standard equipment you would definitely have. You can add more AC even at level 5 with for example Shield of Faith potion or spell, Cat’s Grace & Owl’s Wisdom spells but I have not assumed those.
Level 10: 45 AC (10 base + 7 DEX + 5 WIS + 1 Dodge + 2 Deflection + 8 Crane Style & Wing + 4 Armour + 2 Shield + 2 Natural Armour + 2 Aldori Defender bonus + 2 Steel Net). Assumed equipment is +4 DEX belt (or Cat’s Grace spell), +4 WIS headband (or Owl’s Wisdom spell), Ring of Protection +2, Wand of Mage Amour, Barkskin potion or Amulet of Natural Armour +2. Again all totally standard stuff you would have by this stage.
Level 20: 82 AC (10 base + 12 DEX + 8 WIS + 7 INT + 6 Dodge + 5 Insight + 5 Deflection + 8 Crane Style & Wing + 8 Armour + 2 Shield + 4 Natural Armour + 5 Aldori Defender & Duelist bonuses + 2 Steel Net). This is assuming that top equipment has been acquired: +8 Belt of Physical Perfection, +8 Hat of Mental Perfection, Ring of Circumstances for +2 to DEX, INT & WIS, Robe of the Protector, Bracers of Armour +8, Ring of Protection +5, Manticore Boots, Knurly Witch Amulet.
This is all standard/permanent AC bonuses only. You can squeeze more, e.g. the 4th bonus from Ring of Circumstance, Haste for another +1, Reduce Person for another +2. There could also be team member bonuses (e.g. bard songs) but they have all been ignored. Halfling or Aasimar races would add another +3/+4. You don’t need all these additionals anyway when you already have 82 AC & 68 touch AC, but it would be possible to get up to around 90 AC if required with this build.
If playing solo then UMD skill is a must (that’s why I like Humans: with 4 skill points per level you can max Perception, Trickery, UMD & Persuasion). That allows you to add Haste & Displacement from wands whenever needed.
Dazzling Display is great but you need the Thug level to trigger the AOOs from Frightening. Otherwise opponents are just Shaken (which is still good, but doesn't trigger AOO). So Valerie would need a single Thug level and Weapon Focus + Dazzling Display feats. With those, her high CHA and if you keep pumping Persuasion, she would do this very effectively. Also worth taking Skill Focus Persuasion and Intimidating Prowess to really go all the way with this tactic!
Btw, there's no Improved/greater haste in this game it seems. Pity, would have been great to have a spell that also gave the off-hand another attack.
But this character build is much more than a tank (only being a tank is crap and I don't go for one-dimensional builds). You also have a vicious damage dealer with max BAB, +10 damage per hit from Duelist levels on top of every other damage bonus from DEX, weapon bonuses and specialisation, and who crowd controls / can do tons of AOO himself every round from Dazzling Display with Frightening.
What this character cannot do is elemental or AoE damage. And you are restricted to Dueling Sword as a weapon, so offensively it is a one-trick pony.
Improved Haste is pretty much a BG2 thing, when it comes to RPGs. It's not in PnP DD, for instance. I for one am glad that it isn't in the game, because the DD/PK rules in general suffer from the fact that a combination of haste on your own party and slow on the enemies is already way too powerful.
Could be countered with adding "Personal" to it so that only really mages and the likes can use it and since their BAB progression is lower, it would make them kinda on par with fighters and not surpass them. A fighter with UMD could potentially use any scrolls, but that's fair game IMHO.
The thing with cRPGs and spells tends to be that you only ever use a few, certainly a lot fewer than in PnP, because a cRPG is always so much simpler and shallower than a proper PnP. For instance, I just finished P:K and basically the mage spells I found myself using were haste, slow, animal growth, mirror image, legendary proportions, greater invisibility, displacement and that's about it. Yes, essentially no damage spells at all, especially at higher levels -- there was simply no need. Also, some potentially excellent damage or death spells suffered from unbelievably bad design in the sense that they had a short range but very large area, meaning that you couldn't cast them without hurting your party or endangering the caster in a serious way.