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Pathfinder : Kingmaker

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  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,277
    So I actually like to take the deal with Ioseph, the mayor. You get 500BP but buildings cost 10% bp more. I just build everything I can in my capital and first town before I open up that deal, then build minimally to get artisans buildings and a longhouse up. As soon as I get my treasury to rank 3, I put them on fixing the consequences and then go on a building spree in between chapters 3 and 4. The 500 BP comes at a great point when you need it to annex territory like a chunk of the Narmarches, the Kamelands and lake Silverstep.

  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 953
    xzar_monty wrote: »
    Hey, for all those who want walkthroughs and ideal solutions from the net, here's a geniune question (NOTE: without any implied criticism!) from someone who simply doesn't understand you: why do you want them? What's the point?

    The point is that I have very little time for gaming. My view of guides is the same as game manuals, tutorials etc. I use them when stuck, because I'd rather move on to things that I find fun (which in the case of both BG2 and PK is combat) then waste my limited playing time on things I don't.

    modestvoltakanisathaSkatanmlnevese
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,249
    A new Owlcat survey is going on: this time it's about game difficulty.

    Skatan
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,933
    Great. I've filled in the survey asking for some visible math behind ie damage calculations.

    Kamigoroshimlnevesekanisatha
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 1,630
    I will be very honest.
    • Fly should allow you to IGNORE ground spells/effects including deadly earth. It will make the spell much less broken
    • Sneak attack and ranges for bows and spells should be like pnp.
    • Sneak attack should only apply to one hit for a hellfire ray for eg

    That will make the difficulty of PF:KM much more interesting.

  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,080
    Sooo, I started my first PF:KM run, picking Normal difficulty and tiefling eldritch scion with red dragon bloodline. How do you guys suggest I should developed my protagonist? I would like him to be a mixture of arcane caster and melee combatant, something like F/M in BG. I don't necessarily want this build to be overpowered, more like RP oriented, but on the other hand don't want to struggle during each single fight either. Is dragon disciple a viable option? Appreciate your feedback guys.

    KamigoroshiSkatan
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,933
    edited November 2019
    I'm far from an expert, but I had one guy that multiclassed from Magus (into Duelist, INT-based) and ended up a bit weak in the early and long mid-game. Since Magus gains spell levels quite slow, my experience was that when multiclassed you gimp the spell casting (and Ki pool) too much to make it worthwhile. Same with Alchemist where my current (though paused) playthrough after several tests of different builds ended up a pure vivisectionist with just 1 level dip in another class to get to higher spell levels quicker. IIRC you need level 16 Magus to get spell level 6, so that leaves little room for multiclassing and dragon disciple doesn't add spell levels in PKM IIRC. <-- Edit: Incorrect.

    Sorry for the "IIRC"s but at work and write this comment in haste. A quick googling can probably confirm it :)

    Post edited by Skatan on
    Cahir
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 753
    Skatan wrote: »
    and dragon disciple doesn't add spell levels in PKM IIRC.

    Sorry for the "IIRC"s but at work and write this comment in haste. A quick googling can probably confirm it :)



    I believe that Dragon Disciple does give you spell casting levels, but I do not believe it's at a 1 to 1 ratio for leveling. Maybe it works differently with the Magus, but my Scaled Fist 10 into Sorcerer 1 Into Dragon Disciple 9 had access to 4th level spells. (I may be misremembering at it was only 3rd level spells - but I do recall advancement in spellcasting despite only have 1 level of sorcerer).

    DrHappyAngry
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,933
    edited November 2019
    OK, @BallpointMan I think I should google and correct my post in that case :) I know I've read others state it doesn't, but I never played one so perhaps I shouldn't have wrote that before checking myself.

    Edit: After checking most pages on the first page from a googling I couldn't get a super-clear reply, heh.. odd. Anyways, I did find one thread on Steam where two guys gave different replies; one said you get 6 spell levels and one said you get 7 spell levels out of 10. So I was incorrect.

  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,277
    Dragon Disciple loses out on 3 casting levels, so you get a total of 7 if you go all 10 levels. It maybe worth getting to Magus level 7 before dipping into dragon disciple, since then you can wear and cast in medium armor, depending on your build.

    The key to playing a Magus is that you want to use those touch spells since you can hit with them with your weapon. Asides from the touch spells you want the buffs like shield and mirror image. You want to use a one handed weapon with a high crit rate, since the damage from a touch spell is doubled on a crit (always doubled, even if you have x3 or x4 crit damage weapon). It works well if you can also pick up improved critical. If you're doing strength, scimitars are awesome, rapiers work well for dex. When you're not casting turn off the modal for one handed casting so you use your weapon 2 handed. Use the buffs you can get from the arcane pool, too. Arcane accuracy can really help make sure you land that hit with the touch attack spells. So they do kinda play like a fighter mage or blade, but have a bit of their own thing going for them with those touch attacks through weapons.

    Cahir
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,933
    I found it interesting though with Magus that you spend time casting the spell, then use the attack animation on the weapon to release the spell. I found that it meant less APR, so for any build that tries to get higher BAB to get off more attacks in a round, since the spell animation is the same, some APR might be "wasted".

    This was on a magus/duelist build that went up to around level 10 and mid-game so my experience is limited. It was enough to make me stop playing that particular build though since the damage per hit was a bit low compared to pure fighters, the number of attacks were to few and the ki pool to limited to modal arcane accuracy/improved crits etc to off-set the lower attack. I know the build works longterm since I've read build strats, but I felt the gameplay was a but underwhelming personally. Amiri and even Val outperformed my charname and you know.. I have to admit I want my charname to be the MVP ;)

    CahirBallpointMan
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,820
    Unless it's changed since I last played I believe Maguses could store cast spells until the next attack. So you can cast a touch spell before battle/at the start of a fight and then use it when you attack. I remember it because often I'd cast a spell and then the enemy died before I could strike, so I'd end up using it on the next group of enemies instead.

    SkatanCahir
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,277
    Now that you mention it I've noticed some funniness with multi-attacks too. It seems like extra attacks can only happen at a certain point in the round, so with touch attack casting, you can miss your second attack. It seems like it's true when you drop one enemy and need to switch to another target for any class. If you don't get to the new target by the right point in the round, you don't get that attack.

  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 410
    edited November 2019
    To make a full attack in a round ( this involves several attacks in a row possibly, it´s different from an attack) in PF you do have to attack without using more than a move action. If you attack and move again (or use another type of action in this round that is not a free action) you have less APR.

    Skatan
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,933
    Yupp, this is my experience too. I have experimented with maxing out 10 APR on builds just to try it, and it's very rare to get off many attacks in a round since most things die to quickly and the APR is wasted when relocating to a new target. The only time it really trigger all attacks is usually the second round vs a strong opponent.

    First round
    * Move up to target, slash once, slash twice (?)
    Second round
    * Trigger all APR or until target dies, move to next target
    Third round
    * Move command or full attack round
    Wash, rinse and repeat.

    With a dualweilding monk(1)/vivi with speed weapons I had 10 APR with haste and it wasn't really needed. Sure, 10 APR looks cool, but it's extremely rare to see anything more than maybe 5 attacks ? (I don't know for sure but my gut feeling says it's something like that). Also, FOB only triggers on full round attacks, so you can't move at all from what I've seen. I think maxing APR might be better on twohanded with reach so you can reach and attack more opponents without moving.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,372
    You can actually 5 foot step and still get full attacks. This is mostly noticeable using the fantastic turn based mod.

  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 551
    Couple of things relating to full attack I've noticed with Sword Saint:

    1) Spell Combat only works if you cast the spell first. You cannot attack and cast a spell in the same round. You can only cast spell and then attack, it has to be in this order.
    2) Even the tiniest of movements negates full attacks. I only get full attacks when my Sword Saint doesn't move at all. But if he kills an opponent and then has to move to melee range of next (even if it's the slightest of movements), no more attacks that round. I *suspect* (don't know for sure) that it's a similar dynamic to point (1), i.e. you can make a 5 foot step and then attack (= full attack), but you cannot start an attack, make a 5 foot step, and then finish rest of attacks.

    Also you have to micromanage spell combat to get full attacks. If you want to cast Touch of Fatigue for instance (to get the extra attack), you need to move to melee contact, then cast. If you just cast at the target, you will move close to the target (but not in melee range), then cast, then move to melee and get a single attack. That movement kills the full attack. It's very annoying.

    Skatan
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 493
    Owlcat is teasing their next game by revealing snippets of what is assumed to be the box art.



    I scanned through the APs I own and couldn’t identify anything. An eagle-eyed user on the Owlcat forums noticed that one revealed section bears a “striking” resemblance to a weapon used by a certain electric personality.

    SkatanKamigoroshimlnevese
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,249
    Apparently that sword may be the one Khorramzedeh uses in the Wrath of the Righteous. Thing is, my biggest concern with that AP is how Owlcat will make non-good aligned players not feel left out. The whole adventure path is extremely goody-two-shoes focused... what with joining crusades and battling evil and all that cliche. I would at least want to side with demon worshipping cultist and destroy the crusade, or something.

    Honestly, I do hope it won't be WotR.

    SkatanDrHappyAngrybleusteel
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,277
    I'm not really familiar with the lore, but I'll definitely agree I don't want to be shoe horned into playing the game just one way as a crusader. While Kingmaker had a ton of great options to play your alignment, there were spots where evil could've used more options.

    Kamigoroshibleusteel
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 659
    Well, WotR is now confirmed. Details are still scarce, but I'm surprised it does not have a crowdfunding part, at least not yet. I agree with all of @Kamigoroshi's concerns, but color me very excited. Waaaaay more excited than the BG3 announcement. :smiley:

    Kamigoroshibleusteel
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,249
    According to this article, the upcoming Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous game will have both the Witch and Oracle as new base classes. And Mysthic progression as well. Good, good. Having the ability to become an immortal lich should be fun for evil-aligned players. Still not 100% sold on the thought of said AP, but it sounds like Owlcat has taken some liberties in the plot.

    bleusteelmlnevesekanisatha
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 493
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Well, WotR is now confirmed. Details are still scarce, but I'm surprised it does not have a crowdfunding part, at least not yet. I agree with all of @Kamigoroshi's concerns, but color me very excited. Waaaaay more excited than the BG3 announcement. :smiley:

    They received a funding injection so we’ll just have to wait and see if they need crowdfunding to proceed.

    https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/355135/Pathfinder_Kingmaker_dev_Owlcat_Games_raises_1_million_to_fund_new_project.php

    mlnevesekanisatha
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 659
    edited December 2019
    bleusteel wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Well, WotR is now confirmed. Details are still scarce, but I'm surprised it does not have a crowdfunding part, at least not yet. I agree with all of @Kamigoroshi's concerns, but color me very excited. Waaaaay more excited than the BG3 announcement. :smiley:

    They received a funding injection so we’ll just have to wait and see if they need crowdfunding to proceed.

    https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/355135/Pathfinder_Kingmaker_dev_Owlcat_Games_raises_1_million_to_fund_new_project.php
    I saw these stories myself. I think it says a lot that private investors are willing to fund this game, up to and including their previous parent company My.Games from whom Owlcat recently split and yet where My.Games is continuing to invest in Owlcat's games. I think a lot of people are justifiably impressed by what Owlcat was able to achieve with P:K, especially given how small a budget and how small a workforce they had to make that game, and the incredible extent to which the Owlcat devs were willing to listen to their critics and work so very hard to address every criticism in a positive and professional way.

    Some good lessons here for other small indie developers.

    KamigoroshibleusteelSkatan
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,249
    New WotR interview for those who haven't read it yet.

    RtwP is now officially announced as the sole combat style for Wrath. Good, good.

    kanisathaJuliusBorisov
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 659
    New WotR interview for those who haven't read it yet.

    RtwP is now officially announced as the sole combat style for Wrath. Good, good.

    Yup. Saw it. So totally awesome. In Owlcat we have at least one studio that refuses to cave to the TB bullies and continues to make good cRPGs with a combat system that's genuinely tactical, fun, and doesn't break immersion. If they have a KS for this game, I will gift them a good amount of cash just as a thank you for keeping the game RTwP.

    Kamigoroshi
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,598
    edited January 6
    The single comment to that interview means that using RTWP because it's "a combat system that's genuinely tactical, fun, and doesn't break immersion" can be debatable.

    "They need to add full turn based. The mod that does it for kingmaker makes the game so much more enjoyable even with its little nuances. I won't play the new one until there is a turn based option or mod."

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,249
    Chances are the TB mod author will port it over to WotR as well. Making both sides of the spectrum happy again. Other recent RPG's don't even have such a mod that enables them to play the game how they personally desire. Which shows just how awesome this modding community is. :)

    That being said, there will be noticeable differences between both Pathfinder titles: a different unity version and changes to the representation of the RtwP combat system itself being two of them we know of. But that shouldn't be much of a problem for mod authors. The same can't be said for current mods with custom models though, as the way models work will be radically different in WotR. Like having interchangeable models for hands, feet, heads and hair that allows the devs to mish and mash as they please.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 1,820
    The single comment to that interview means that using RTWP because it's "a combat system that's genuinely tactical, fun, and doesn't break immersion" can be debatable.

    "They need to add full turn based. The mod that does it for kingmaker makes the game so much more enjoyable even with its little nuances. I won't play the new one until there is a turn based option or mod."

    So diplomatic, Julle :P

  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 659
    I won't play the new one until there is a turn based option or mod.[/i]"
    And henceforth I won't play any TB RPG if it doesn't have a RTwP option or mod. It cuts both ways.

    sarevok57
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